Mountain Biking - Prime cities for mtn bike/ outdoor rec in the USA

I am looking to start a business venture in about 2yrs and need your help. I have not been to many places so please correct me if I am wrong.

Here is my short list:

Grand Junction, CO
Fruita, CO
Rapid City, SD
Loveland, CO
Boulder, CO

It is hard to meet all desirable criteria. Tentatively speaking these would include:

1. Close enough to metro area I would guess >100,000 ; like on the outskirts
2. Trail access from my actual building
3. a trail network that welcomes trail runners, hikers, maybe XC skiing or snow shoeing in winter months
4. a desirable destination for road bikers to park vehicles as a starting point for a ride

anyone have any destinations? I am not even sure mine meet the criteria...help me brainstorm please.

East? Blue Ridge Mtn cities?

thanks!

mx

Do you mean east as in kingdom trails? May I ask, where in Pa are you?

Do you mean east as in kingdom trails? May I ask, where in Pa are you?

I was thinking like the North Carolina type area. I really do not know, that is why I am asking the forums. I would tend to think it should be an area with mountains...that is how I envision it. What are the Kingdom trails?

I am sort of looking for the "meccas" of outdoor life in the USA I suppose. Ones that might fit some of my criteria.

East Burke, VT.

http://www.kingdomtrails.org/

Awesome place to ride.

In Pa, you do have some really good riding locations, they just have to be found. I used to go once or twice a summer out to Jim Thorpe, Pa. Last year was the first time in ages that I didn't get out there.

East Burke, VT.

http://www.kingdomtrails.org/

Awesome place to ride.

In Pa, you do have some really good riding locations, they just have to be found. I used to go once or twice a summer out to Jim Thorpe, Pa. Last year was the first time in ages that I didn't get out there.

Pa is big state, Jim Thorpe is 5 hrs away...no good.

Was just using Jim Thorpe as an Example. ;)

Moraine State Park probably isn't too far.

Pittsburgh area has some fun stuff, but Best bet would be somewhere south, west of Pa would be best.

Was just using Jim Thorpe as an Example. ;)

Moraine State Park probably isn't too far.

Pittsburgh area has some fun stuff, but Best bet would be somewhere south, west of Pa would be best.

yeah, but I need something close. it still sux here. At least 24hrs of Big Bear is pretty close!

Gallup, NM.(like the route 66 song) Lots of desert singletrack accessible from your front door, tons of forest singletrack in the Zuni mountains half an hour from town. Check out galluptrails2010.com

Gallup, NM.(like the route 66 song) Lots of desert singletrack accessible from your front door, tons of forest singletrack in the Zuni mountains half an hour from town. Check out galluptrails2010.com

thanks! I will look at this. However, from a business standpoint probably not good...correct? If I remember... there is not much there and population kind of low, right?

...but I will look. I appreciate any input

Gallup, NM.(like the route 66 song) Lots of desert singletrack accessible from your front door, tons of forest singletrack in the Zuni mountains half an hour from town. Check out galluptrails2010.com

Wow! it looks very nice there! I just looked at the pics on the galluptrails web site.

again, my concern would be from a business standpoint, volume of interested people. I have not been to Moab, but even a place like that might not have the population to support a business with some consistency

Do you live in Gallup? Does it draw people from far away? Only a weekend thing?

Makes me want to go there and ride sometime that's for sure

Brevard NC.....Pisgah Ntl forest and DuPont St. forest. Asheville pretty close with lots of music and dining options.

Gallup, NM.(like the route 66 song) Lots of desert singletrack accessible from your front door, tons of forest singletrack in the Zuni mountains half an hour from town. Check out galluptrails2010.com

I added Zuni 100 to future races I want to do

Brevard NC.....Pisgah Ntl forest and DuPont St. forest. Asheville pretty close with lots of music and dining options.

okay, do you think that would be best area for eastern cities near mountains with outdoor lifestyles in mind and accessible trails?

thanks

Spokane, WA. Trails every direction of the compass right out of the downtown core. Road riding has the paved Centennial Trail and Fish Lake trails. Centennial runs right through the city core along the river and stretches from Nine Mile Falls all the way to Coeur d'Alene, ID (the Ironman uses a portion of the Centennial).

Population fits your size needs but Spokane is a bit odd: being landlocked, it's still a bit provincial; but it is loosening up a lot. Still has a surprisingly small-town feel for a city of its size - - either a blessing or a curse depending on one's personality and perspective.


I was going to suggest Portland, OR - - much hipper, very awesome city; but access to close-by MTBing is more scarce from what I undertsand.

Fayetteville, wv

There are quite a few places in Oregon that would fit the build, several areas are rideable year round plus there is skiing, hiking, and a plethora of other outdoor activities available. hell bend even has an indoor mtb park (it should be open now).

hmm.. yeah, i've snowboarded once, gone xc skiing twice, and mountain biked numerous times (today even) in the last month here in oregon.. but you want to go east.. yep definitely go to the east coast.

Fairfax, CA but may be too expensive, no winter to speak of (if snow is important to you). Close to SF Bay Area but on the outskirts at same time. Birthplace of mountain biking in some respects (Repack).

Redding, CA if you don't mind summer heat, not much of a winter though snow a relatively short drive away.

but you want to go east.. yep definitely go to the east coast.:lol: That would be my usual advice for sure; but MX is on of the good guys.

Hey, MX, did I mention that Portland is just kitty-corner across the river from Washougal?

Crested Butte, CO
Farmington, NM
Las Vegas, NV The trials are actually in Blue Diamond, NV @60 miles of trails and Bootleg Canyon, 20 miles S. of Vegas. It is listed by IMBA as an Epic Ride. There are also Old RR track beds with 6 tunnels to ride through. The River Mountain loop is complete, 112 miles of paved and dirt sight seeing around Lake Mead and the Henderson Wetlands. Camping at the Lake, cheap hotels on the Boulder HWY along with $6.99 Prime Rib Dinners (+++) and $2 blackjack.

You can ride here year round, but survival between the months of June and Sept is ????. Check the posted odds before riding.

Okay guys, in no particular order here is a new list. I have done no initial screening. (did I hear Washougal?)


Blue Diamond, NV
Crested Butte, CO
Farmington, NM
Portland, OR
Fairfax, CA
Redding, CA
Fayetteville, WV
Spokane, WA
Brevard, NC
Asheville, NC
Gallup, NM
East Burke, VT
Anchorage, AK


Now what about my initial list? Were these sort of a given? Would anyone say they are not what I was thinking they would be?


Grand Junction, CO
Fruita, CO
Rapid City, SD
Loveland, CO
Boulder, CO



thanks!

Was just using Jim Thorpe as an Example. ;)

Moraine State Park probably isn't too far.

Pittsburgh area has some fun stuff, but Best bet would be somewhere south, west of Pa would be best.
Thats what I wanted to hear.....
I got Accepted to Duquesne University School Of Nursing, and Univeristy of Pittsburgh (Bradford Campus) Nursing Program, and West Virginia University Nursing Program (only and hour from Pitt) in Morgantown WV.
I was just about to ask about moutain biking in this area... as this is where my family is located around pitt..


MX, have you looked at Alaska at all?

Thats what I wanted to hear.....
I got Accepted to Duquesne University School Of Nursing, and Univeristy of Pittsburgh (Bradford Campus) Nursing Program, and West Virginia University Nursing Program (only and hour from Pitt) in Morgantown WV.
I was just about to ask about moutain biking in this area... as this is where my family is located around pitt..


MX, have you looked at Alaska at all?

I have for other reasons...never thought about it for the purpose of this post. good point.

I lived in Alaska for 14 years.

Anchorage is where more than half of the states population is. States main Business and industrial center, mega tourism as well.

Fairbanks is 400 miles away from the Artic Circle, in the middle of the Interior Alaska area, Mild Summers, mid 70's and 80's.... brutal winters lol.

Denali is a tourist town... During the summer everone comes for fishing, hunting, site seeing, moutain climbing, hiking, white water rafting, etc.... except during the winter it all but shuts down.

I don't know about it from a business standpoint though,
Cost of living is high, 80% of the food is imported lol..
agricultural season is only 100 days long

Wow! it looks very nice there! I just looked at the pics on the galluptrails web site.

again, my concern would be from a business standpoint, volume of interested people. I have not been to Moab, but even a place like that might not have the population to support a business with some consistency

Do you live in Gallup? Does it draw people from far away? Only a weekend thing?

Makes me want to go there and ride sometime that's for sure

I used to live there, now am in Albuquerque. There was some weekender draw from out of town, but you are right- town of 20,000, 2hrs. from nearest metro area. The numbers of tourists has been steadily increasing, but probably not enough at this point to support a mtb based business. BTW Albuquerque has quite a large trail user interest from what I've seen so far.

Boulder's great, as are the little towns outside of it. Golden is about half an hour from Boulder (closer to Denver...and to lift serviced areas like Keystone), and has White Ranch for riding. Jefferson County has weird mountain bike trail laws though (dismount the bike when a pedestrian is in sight), but that doesn't stop the Yeti guys from riding. Boulder County doesn't have those laws, but there are still strained relations between bikers, hikers, and equestrians (so says the Daily Camera anyway, I've never had problems on the trail). Lots of bike trails just outside of Boulder out towards Lyons and Nederland. I believe that Boulder is under the 100,000 population mark, though just barely, and it is close to Denver. Golden is smaller, somewhere around the 1700 mark. Both Boulder and Golden are college towns (CU and Mines). Boulder is also within driving distance of several lift serviced areas (Keystone being the biggie, though I think Breck have a few others have bike parks too).

Moab is very cool, but as you said, I'm not sure it's great from a business standpoint. It seems to be more of a tourist town (though town might be pushing it...street?). Lots of bikers, climbers, and jeepers (is that a word?), but that's it. The actual Moab population is only around 5000. Much better mountain biking than Boulder though.

Colorado Springs might be something to consider. There are lots of great trails, though I hadn't started mountain biking yet when I lived there, so you'd definitely want to check on trail access first. It's bigger than Boulder, though still smaller than Denver, with a population around 380,000. Springs has a few colleges too, including Colorado College, Air Force, and satellite campuses for a few other schools. I don't know whether or not Monarch has biking in the summer.

I haven't been to Flagstaff, so I can't speak about it directly, but I've heard some great stuff about it from people who have lived there. Supposedly it's very outdoors-y and has a good trail network. I think it's only around the 60,000 mark for population, though that's about equal to Loveland and is bigger than Grand Junction (~50,000), Fruita (~7000), and Crested Butte (~1500), all of which make your list. Flagstaff is also home to NAU. No downhill at the Snowbowl, though I've heard there are petitions to try to get them to build a bike park.

Bellingham, WA. Small but awesome.

I would suggest that you also look at some objective financial data on the overall economic health of the communities that you consider. American factfinder uses Census data (the Census is collecting data constantly, it just doesn't do the decennial headcount). Here's link. http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/main.html?_lang=en Almost all areas of the country have been adversely affect by the downturn in the economy and new startups are facing the problem of reduced consumer spending. One area that you might consider adding to your map is Coeur d'Alene, ID. It's been on the list of fastest growing cities for almost a decade. It's actually adjacent to Spokane, WA so you'd be close to 2 urban areas. Good luck.

Curious, just what kind of business venture if you can divulge?

Thank you guys for some of this very useful info. I am saving this thread as a source. It gives me some direction.

@ bikinfool

its very complicated. but sort of a bike cafe/ burger/ micro brewery/ minimalistic bike shop/ minimalistic outdoor rec shop/ parking destination for road riders/ parking destination for trail access for mtn bikers/ hikers/ maybe a pump track and some wooden play things outside/ a source to sponsor grass roots racing teams/ maybe a race promotion/ charity/ trail advocacy/ a sign on the trail that points my way and says "burgers and beer" :)

built from the ground up, maybe include a couple properly zoned nice apt units on top to offset some operating costs and as a tax benefit, maybe. And a place for me to live.

all rolled into one

Thank you guys for some of this very useful info. I am saving this thread as a source. It gives me some direction.

@ bikinfool

its very complicated. but sort of a bike cafe/ burger/ micro brewery/ minimalistic bike shop/ minimalistic outdoor rec shop/ parking destination for road riders/ parking destination for trail access for mtn bikers/ hikers/ maybe a pump track and some wooden play things outside/ a source to sponsor grass roots racing teams/ maybe a race promotion/ charity/ trail advocacy/ a sign on the trail that points my way and says "burgers and beer" :)

built from the ground up, maybe include a couple properly zoned nice apt units on top to offset some operating costs and as a tax benefit, maybe. And a place for me to live.

all rolled into one

I'd scratch my Fairfax recommendation unless you're $$ loaded....

This sounds cool.

Something else to consider is possible competition. When I first read your plans, my instinct was Boulder. But then I thought about it, and I'm not sure Boulder has the room for that kind of business. A cafe/brewery sounds great, but you'd be competing with Amante and Oskar Blues, one which serves as the starting point for lots of road rides, and the other which is perfectly located for mountain bikers. A pump track outside a cafe/outdoors store sounds great, but it would have to be absolutely incredible if it's going to draw riders away from The Fix, Gunbarrel jumps, the new park in Lyons, and Valmont (when it's done). There are already tons of store sponsored teams in Boulder, but then again, I'm sure there's room for more of them. Boulder also has more bike shops than it knows what to do with, and CycleSport is next door to that Amante I was talking about. It would be convenient to have that all in one spot, but when people already have their favorites elsewhere, it might be hard to break in. But I'm wondering if somewhere a little smaller/less established would be a better place for a business like that. That sounds like the kind of place I would have loved to have gone to after a day of riding, get a burger, play on the pump track, and pick up any supplies I might need (though Moab also has a ton of bike shops). It's possible Moab has stuff like that too though, and I just didn't realize it since I was a tourist. Then again, your idea sounds like it could be a great place for locals and tourists alike to hang out at the end of the day and BS about their rides (think Miguel's Pizza for climbers at the Red River Gorge). Also sounds like something that would be awesome in the Poconos, especially since there's not as many other existing options around.

Good luck!

its very complicated. but sort of a bike cafe/ burger/ micro brewery/ minimalistic bike shop/ minimalistic outdoor rec shop/ parking destination for road riders/ parking destination for trail access for mtn bikers/ hikers/ maybe a pump track and some wooden play things outside/ a source to sponsor grass roots racing teams/ maybe a race promotion/ charity/ trail advocacy/ a sign on the trail that points my way and says "burgers and beer" :)

built from the ground up, maybe include a couple properly zoned nice apt units on top to offset some operating costs and as a tax benefit, maybe. And a place for me to live.

all rolled into one

yep, just as i suspected.. better head east.. every trailhead in the west already has 2 or 3 of these. location.. location.. location.

Well, Asheville is big for these kind of places and Brevard has a lot of nice little cafe's and great bikeshops....soooooooooo..........

Yes, thanks for everyone's advice.

To address some concerns. I fully realize my idea is not unique and has been done many times. I purposely have not looked into any of these places for fear of clouding my own original thought.

There certainly has to be a survey of all locations. Competition aside, you have to question if there is even a prime physical location available anymore.

It is not my intention to be so pompous to think I can upstart something like this anywhere I want without pissing people off, stepping on toes, or backlash. It is possible that there are no untapped locations left in the country. In this case, sometimes competing will be necessary if you really want to do something. Remember, as much as any of these places would like to think they own exclusive rights...they do not.

Competition is good. Unless Obamamessiah takes us down some irreversible course...competition will be good in the future as well.

There are a few things I have not mentioned and some things I have that would not work. You can't spread the business too thin. I also like health and wellness and might see how I could incorporate this.

There are multiple traps available to catch a mouse...which is best might be up for debate.

Bragg Creek, Alberta - a small hamlet just outside of Calgary (+1 million ppl) nestled in the Rocky Mountains, surrounded by lots of great trail, road, and DH riding (plus hiking, skiing, equestrian, etc...).

The catches are it's in Canada and only limited development is allowed within Bragg Creek.

Canada - - isn't that the quaint French Communist state to the north of me?

I'm sorry if my post sounded like I was saying "Don't bother, there are a million of these already," because I certainly didn't mean it that way. I absolutely agree that competition is good. I just wanted to make sure you were taking the competition into account. There's a difference between opening up a pizza parlor in a small Italian neighborhood with a few pizza places there already and setting up shop next door to DiFara's in New York. Sure DiFara's doesn't own exclusive rights to pizza in that area, but it's so established with regulars and talked about among tourists that I'm not sure that anything outside of free food would draw people away (and even then, there would probably be people who'd still pay for a DiFara slice instead).

I also agree that you can't spread your business too thin, though what you've described still sounds alright to me. A cafe where you can also get burgers and beer that's also attached to a little general store that carries outdoor and trail essentials? I'd go there. Most likely the main draw for me would be the food, since if I wanted bike or outdoor supplies my first instinct would be go to a bike or outdoors specialty shop, but as long as I'm there, I might pick up a tube or whatever to save me a trip. Probably wouldn't pick up anything bigger than tubes/patch kits/maybe a derailleur hanger if you carried them for my bike for some weird reason though. And having a mechanic at the same place I'm eating is cool too, since I'd be able to get anything I screwed up on the trail fixed while I ate a post-ride burger (as long as he's not making my burger with his greasy hands! Hah!). And a pump track? Ooh, I'll always take a pump track. Adding a pump track and parking for roadies and mountain bikers will require a lot of land though.

Canada - - isn't that the quaint French Communist state to the north of me?

It is hard to notice, all tucked away down there.

Bragg Creek, Alberta - a small hamlet just outside of Calgary (+1 million ppl) nestled in the Rocky Mountains, surrounded by lots of great trail, road, and DH riding (plus hiking, skiing, equestrian, etc...).

The catches are it's in Canada and only limited development is allowed within Bragg Creek.

Canada, interesting. I think other things not mentioned would limit my interest in Canada. I do bet it is nice there.

I'm sorry if my post sounded like I was saying "Don't bother, there are a million of these already," because I certainly didn't mean it that way. I absolutely agree that competition is good. I just wanted to make sure you were taking the competition into account. There's a difference between opening up a pizza parlor in a small Italian neighborhood with a few pizza places there already and setting up shop next door to DiFara's in New York. Sure DiFara's doesn't own exclusive rights to pizza in that area, but it's so established with regulars and talked about among tourists that I'm not sure that anything outside of free food would draw people away (and even then, there would probably be people who'd still pay for a DiFara slice instead).

I didn't take it that way at all. I know it has been done and there are limited opportunities and locales.

This doesn't necessarily have to be a huge money maker for me at all. It cannot lose money though. I think of it as more a way to give back and would like to have stuff priced very well so people might actually buy it there.

I would like to limit partnership, especially strict investors. With these will come expectations of return that I might not care about. However, they might allow for faster capital for start-up. I guess I will have to see how much clout I have with bank in a couple years.

I had always wanted to "give back" to motocross. I now think my other 2-wheeled friends would be a better means. I see too many hurdles with motocross.

I would have to be cautious with lawsuits on the property of those who might get injured. I am sure there are ways around that.

I am not trying to compete with Ray's Indoor or B.C. wooden structurmacallits...but wouldn't it be kinda a cool to come back from a ride chill a little and maybe try a pump track on your mtb? or a few wooden things? some people never really have the opportunity to try these things. I know I have not yet.

Yes, thanks for everyone's advice.

To address some concerns. I fully realize my idea is not unique and has been done many times. I purposely have not looked into any of these places for fear of clouding my own original thought.

There certainly has to be a survey of all locations. Competition aside, you have to question if there is even a prime physical location available anymore.

It is not my intention to be so pompous to think I can upstart something like this anywhere I want without pissing people off, stepping on toes, or backlash. It is possible that there are no untapped locations left in the country. In this case, sometimes competing will be necessary if you really want to do something. Remember, as much as any of these places would like to think they own exclusive rights...they do not.

Competition is good. Unless Obamamessiah takes us down some irreversible course...competition will be good in the future as well.

There are a few things I have not mentioned and some things I have that would not work. You can't spread the business too thin. I also like health and wellness and might see how I could incorporate this.

There are multiple traps available to catch a mouse...which is best might be up for debate.

There are still many untapped areas, probably more out west than back east. Having worked on the east coast during my career, I can attest that there's more money in certain eastern cities. However, the established competition in those locations makes them a little less attractive for the type of start up you described. The food industry is brutal and the majority of eateries fail fairly soon. You'll need to research, research, research, especially if you'll be applying for a business loan. The biggest question is how much of a permanent sea change in consumer spending habits is occurring due to the devastating number of jobs lost in the US, which some economists predict will never be refilled.

Maybe you should evaluate resort areas, too. People may choose to eat out less often to cushion diminished incomes. However, those who can afford vacations will eat out while traveling. There are thousands of mountain resort communities in the west, and it's most western states, not just Colorado. I would suggest you include Idaho (Sandpoint is an awesome resort community in the Idaho panhandle), Washington, Oregon and Montana (if you can find property in the resort towns near Glacier--Glacier's visitor numbers were up last year--one that isn't too far way that may still be affordable is Eureka).

Good luck.

There are still many untapped areas, probably more out west than back east. Having worked on the east coast during my career, I can attest that there's more money in certain eastern cities. However, the established competition in those locations makes them a little less attractive for the type of start up you described. The food industry is brutal and the majority of eateries fail fairly soon. You'll need to research, research, research, especially if you'll be applying for a business loan. The biggest question is how much of a permanent sea change in consumer spending habits is occurring due to the devastating number of jobs lost in the US, which some economists predict will never be refilled.

Maybe you should evaluate resort areas, too. People may choose to eat out less often to cushion diminished incomes. However, those who can afford vacations will eat out while traveling. There are thousands of mountain resort communities in the west, and it's most western states, not just Colorado. I would suggest you include Idaho (Sandpoint is an awesome resort community in the Idaho panhandle), Washington, Oregon and Montana (if you can find property in the resort towns near Glacier--Glacier's visitor numbers were up last year--one that isn't too far way that may still be affordable is Eureka).

Good luck.

thank you for this valuable input. I will address this info with my bike forum mtn biker moderator consultant :)

I haven't been to Flagstaff, so I can't speak about it directly, but I've heard some great stuff about it from people who have lived there. Supposedly it's very outdoors-y and has a good trail network. I think it's only around the 60,000 mark for population, though that's about equal to Loveland and is bigger than Grand Junction (~50,000), Fruita (~7000), and Crested Butte (~1500), all of which make your list. Flagstaff is also home to NAU. No downhill at the Snowbowl, though I've heard there are petitions to try to get them to build a bike park.

I've been spending increasing amounts of time in Flagstaff and plan to retire there. Mountain biking is excellent; Flag is surrounded by national forest lands that have lots of singletrack and forest roads. My family has a place there and the closest trails are 5 minutes away by bike. The current population is about 70,000 and it's a pretty well rounded town economically and sociologically for its size. Recent winters there have been widely variable, with little snow some years and huge amounts in others (53" in 4 days last week).

There are several large employers in town (Gore, Inc., NAU, NPS, USGS, Ralston Purina, to name a few) but the service jobs, in common with much of Arizona, don't pay very well. Housing is relatively expensive too.