Fifty Plus (50+) - Anyone Notice that Comfy Road Bikes are Now Flat Bar Road Bikes?

Just turned fitty, by the way, and couldn't figure where to post this--General, Road bikes, or Hybrids or here-- but this place seemed as good as any. Relocate as need be.

I'm shopping for a bike to ride on longer distances of 30+ miles. I hope to go on a hundred mile ride this year and would eventually like to take a ride to NYC. Presently, I ride my Breezer to work and around town. Don't really go any further than 12 miles or so.

I've been looking at the road bikes out there and notice that they are all aggressive in nature. If you look at the Giant or Raliegh or Masi websites (I'm sure others are this way, but I didn't look), the road bikes all have handlebars well below and fairly far from the seats.

I've ridden the Giant Defy and it says it's "relaxed" but it isn't. To be certain, I rode it about 5 miles. I require a comfortable bike, as I ride for fun first, sport second.

However, the Giant Rapid, a flat barred bike, is relaxed and I loved its ride--love the responsive frame and the light weight. The Raleigh Cadent also looks nice--it's a flat bar bike. But note that in 2006 it was a drop bar bike and Sheldon Brown wrote a great review on it--it switched to flats sometime in '07 or '08. The Masi has the Caffe Racer that looks like a nice relaxed geometry, but it also has the flat bars. The other Masi's are more aggressive.

(Sheldon Brown review:http://sheldonbrown.org/raleigh-cadent/)

Everything I read points me toward the drop bars for long rides, yet it looks like the only way to get one that I'll be comfortable on off the shelf is touring or cyclecross bikes, which don't appeal to me that much.

So, I'm thinking that my best options are live with the flat bars, which I like a lot, or buy a bike like the Giant Defy and have them extend the stem and angle the bars up. Doing such a mod concerns me in that it will cost a few bucks and I'm not sure that I know how much to adjust it and if it will work for me.

Any thoughts?

I take it you've ruled out recumbents?

I wouldn't want a flat bar for long distances; it really helps having the extra hand positions of road bars and I was never happy with bar extensions. You might look into something like a Rivendell. Them folks have funny ideas about keeping handlebars at seat height, and using fatter tires, and all sorts of other weird stuff. :)

Answer:

The Giant Rapid, a flat barred bike, is relaxed and I loved its ride--love the responsive frame and the light weight.

I take it you've ruled out recumbents?

I wouldn't want a flat bar for long distances; it really helps having the extra hand positions of road bars and I was never happy with bar extensions. You might look into something like a Rivendell. Them folks have funny ideas about keeping handlebars at seat height, and using fatter tires, and all sorts of other weird stuff. :)

Yes, I ruled out recumbants. I rode one for about 10 miles, and while it was comfortable I thought it was a bit clumbsy and it didn't feel sporty enough for my tastes.

Rivendell is out. Budget is $1200 out the door.

Ex mountain biker and they have flat bars. First road bike and for fit- I followed the normal practice for old gits and got the smaller frame that fitted me. Very easy with Giant's Compact frame sizing as in my case- the XS fitted a conventional Frame size of 45 to 51. The next frame size up covered from 49 to 54 so my eventual frame size of 51 was covered by the two frames. The smaller frame did allow the bars to fit closer to the body with the shorter reach of the top tube. Still modified the fit by fitting a higher rise stem to bring the bars up level with the saddle though

135092

Still took a while to adjust to the new riding position of a road bike but I did notice that initially I was riding on the flat section of the bars. This gradually changed to the position of riding on the hoods which gave me a longer- layed out more stretched position. The drop position was not in any way comfortable and only used it on downhills. 6 Months into riding and I started to train the body into using the drops. Not long at a time but gradually I found the position acceptable. Still only use the drops when going downhill- or into a headwind- or even on the rare occasions if I did ever want the turn of speed to catch another rider in front.

But this bike was never quite as comfortable as I would have liked. OK- did a few Metric and century rides and even climbed a few good hills but the bike was just a bit below the standard that I wanted. Time for N+1.

Next bike was chosen with care and was a custom build on a Race geometry frame. This was after test riding a built up version. Longer top tube- better components and a fitting for position. The shop set the bars up 4" below the saddle. That looked way wrong but the shop sent me out on a ride and I checked it out. The lower- even more stretched out position is comfortable. No more back ache- no reaching for the controls and it was perfect.

135093
[When I first started road riding- I could almost have agreed with you that at our age- a good flat bar Hybrid is the way to go. I did go the road route and got the OCR- the forerunner of the Defy Series-and found the advantages of going that route. So much so that it was not long before I found out that if I do want comfort and efficiency- I had to set the bike up to be better suited for my body that had adjusted to riding with my head between my knees and a back that is a lot flatter than I ever expected it to like

Edit.
I do like Giants. So much so that 6 months after getting Boreas- I got a TCR-C in the next size up from the OCR. I had realised by then that the choice I took on the two sizes of Giant frames was wrong. I should have gone for the next size up

And that Giant Rapid. I have several friends that have the FCR- the forerunner of the Rapid and they love it. One of them commutes 100 miles a week and joins me for a couple of metric rides each year.

There are many road bikes available with taller head tubes and a more upright riding position with drop handlebars. Sometimes the pictures on the manufacturer's website can be misleading. You need to work with a bike shop who understands the type of riding position you want and will help you set the bike up that way. You are not limited to flat bar bikes to get a comfortable position.

There are many road bikes available with taller head tubes and a more upright riding position with drop handlebars. Sometimes the pictures on the manufacturer's website can be misleading. You need to work with a bike shop who understands the type of riding position you want and will help you set the bike up that way. You are not limited to flat bar bikes to get a comfortable position.

+1 Getting a relaxed riding position on some of the 'sport' road bikes isn't hard....usually nothing but a swap of a stem, if they didn't cut the steerer tube too short. Or you could always get a frame you like and build it up (or have it built up) how you want it, which is what I usually do.

True thdave,

BluesDawg is absolutely correct. The two bikes that come to mind are the Roubaix from Specialized and the Pilot from Trek. Those might be outside your price range though.

Regardless, a well informed bike shop can easily set up normal road bars (with the multi-position advantage) with a taller stem to fit your comfort needs.

Rick / OCRR

I have also noticed that the photos of the bikes usually have the handle bars down lower than a lot of people like to ride them. I too switched from a straight bar mountain bike to a road bike. I ride mostly on the hoods (like most people) and only get in the drops if I am going into a steep wind or just want a little change of position for a while. I have taken a couple of 1 1/2 hour rides on my mountain bike recently and after about an hour I miss having more places to put my hands.
On your comment about the cyclocross, I also have a cyclocross that has 700 x 28 touring tires on it and it is my most comfortable bike. It is pretty rare that anyone even notices that it is a cyclocross.

Taller head tube, short drop bars, correct top tube lenght are all possible. "Comfy" is a relative term. When you want something "sporty enough" you are already making a bit of a trade off. It sounds like you just need to look a bit more and pay particular attention to the correct fit.

Ex mountain biker and they have flat bars. First road bike and for fit- I followed the normal practice for old gits and got the smaller frame that fitted me. Very easy with Giant's Compact frame sizing as in my case- the XS fitted a conventional Frame size of 45 to 51. The next frame size up covered from 49 to 54 so my eventual frame size of 51 was covered by the two frames. The smaller frame did allow the bars to fit closer to the body with the shorter reach of the top tube. Still modified the fit by fitting a higher rise stem to bring the bars up level with the saddle though

135092



Still took a while to adjust to the new riding position of a road bike but I did notice that initially I was riding on the flat section of the bars. This gradually changed to the position of riding on the hoods which gave me a longer- layed out more stretched position. The drop position was not in any way comfortable and only used it on downhills. 6 Months into riding and I started to train the body into using the drops. Not long at a time but gradually I found the position acceptable. Still only use the drops when going downhill- or into a headwind- or even on the rare occasions if I did ever want the turn of speed to catch another rider in front.

But this bike was never quite as comfortable as I would have liked. OK- did a few Metric and century rides and even climbed a few good hills but the bike was just a bit below the standard that I wanted. Time for N+1.

Next bike was chosen with care and was a custom build on a Race geometry frame. This was after test riding a built up version. Longer top tube- better components and a fitting for position. The shop set the bars up 4" below the saddle. That looked way wrong but the shop sent me out on a ride and I checked it out. The lower- even more stretched out position is comfortable. No more back ache- no reaching for the controls and it was perfect.

135093
[When I first started road riding- I could almost have agreed with you that at our age- a good flat bar Hybrid is the way to go. I did go the road route and got the OCR- the forerunner of the Defy Series-and found the advantages of going that route. So much so that it was not long before I found out that if I do want comfort and efficiency- I had to set the bike up to be better suited for my body that had adjusted to riding with my head between my knees and a back that is a lot flatter than I ever expected it to like

Edit.
I do like Giants. So much so that 6 months after getting Boreas- I got a TCR-C in the next size up from the OCR. I had realised by then that the choice I took on the two sizes of Giant frames was wrong. I should have gone for the next size up

And that Giant Rapid. I have several friends that have the FCR- the forerunner of the Rapid and they love it. One of them commutes 100 miles a week and joins me for a couple of metric rides each year.

This is exactly why I want a bike with drops, so that it's comfy as is and if I improve and come to like the drops, then I can adjust the stem and steerer tube so that I get a bike for now and a bike for later.

But there really aren't any Giants that are suitible, as is, the way they are--except the Rapid. No Raleigh's either, or Masi's. I'll talk to the bike shop, but I stand by my comment that the new versions of relaxed geometry road bikes have flat bars. I've been researching this for a month and I believe the only way to get what I want is to modify a bike.

You could get the bike you enjoyed and have them switch the "straight bars" to "trekking bars" (or butterfly bars) like I did when I turned my Jamis Hardtail MTB into a road and touring hybrid to do more road riding, It gives you "multi-hand positions" without going all the way to drop bars, YMMV.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_GW75NWraW4E/Sz513FT4X8I/AAAAAAAACx4/yEKmVrafzoQ/2010NYDride-sm-4.jpg

This is exactly why I want a bike with drops, so that it's comfy as is and if I improve and come to like the drops, then I can adjust the stem and steerer tube so that I get a bike for now and a bike for later.

But there really aren't any Giants that are suitible, as is, the way they are--except the Rapid. No Raleigh's either, or Masi's. I'll talk to the bike shop, but I stand by my comment that the new versions of relaxed geometry road bikes have flat bars. I've been researching this for a month and I believe the only way to get what I want is to modify a bike.

What dimensions are you trying to accomplish? I find it hard to believe that there is not a road bike with drop bars that can be set up to mimic the hand position of a flat bar fitness type hybrid bike. It is not hard at all to set up a drop bar road bike with the top of the handlebars an inch or so higher than the saddle top by using the right handlebar/stem/steerer combination.

I got a couple of Giants back in 2006. A comfort/hybrid FCR2 with flat bars, and what they called a road fitness bike, an OCR2, which was almost the same bike with drop bars. Back then they were about $800 each. Both had nice light aluminum frames, carbon forks and 700c wheels/tires. My wife wanted the flat bar bike because of the Sram shifters and I took the drop bar bike because I wanted to ride longer distances. We were/are extremely happy with these bikes. Alas, I think the OCR line is now only available as the more aggressive, and expensive. racing version, for lack of a better term.

Bottom line though, I have a problem with arthritis in my wrists and I can't ride in a very aggressive forward leaning posture so my LBS modified the drops so they are not so far below the saddle. This works for me and didn't cost anything. They just swapped out some parts during the normal fitting process.

Upon looking at Trek and Giant sites I see your problem. Those bikes like I have don't exist anymore.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_pro_IX.htm
This link is a Motobecane from Bikes Direct bike that looks almost identical to my Giant OCR2. Maybe you need to look at cross bikes. they seem to have the taller angled headtube which puts the drop bars higher and closer to the seat.

Just get a used or vintage bike. Lots of options out there.

There are many road bikes available with taller head tubes and a more upright riding position with drop handlebars. Sometimes the pictures on the manufacturer's website can be misleading. You need to work with a bike shop who understands the type of riding position you want and will help you set the bike up that way. You are not limited to flat bar bikes to get a comfortable position.

+1... Flat bars= not good.

Just get a used or vintage bike. Lots of options out there.

+1

My long distance rider is an old touring bike that has a threaded headset, and a Nitto Technomic stem that I swapped with the original.

I think what you need to do is ride some bikes and see what feels comfortable. Take some measurements and look at geometry charts. As others have said, if you can do it with flat bars you can put drop bars in the same position and have more options.
Some people like a 4 inch drop from the saddle to the bars and I ran them that way for years. Now my back and neck won't allow it so I have the bars just over an inch below the saddle.
I have a Gunnar Sport. Longish wheelbase and tall head tube, it fits pretty well.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u308/bigjohn53/FIRSTCLIMB.jpg

This is exactly why I want a bike with drops, so that it's comfy as is and if I improve and come to like the drops, then I can adjust the stem and steerer tube so that I get a bike for now and a bike for later.

But there really aren't any Giants that are suitible, as is, the way they are--except the Rapid. No Raleigh's either, or Masi's. I'll talk to the bike shop, but I stand by my comment that the new versions of relaxed geometry road bikes have flat bars. I've been researching this for a month and I believe the only way to get what I want is to modify a bike.

There is a form of bar stem that is adjustable and am surprised that some-one has not posted a pic of one fitted to their bike. It will allow you to raise the bars very easily from the standard height.

Just to show how even a stem change can alter the ride position of a bike---The first attachment is of my OCR as I rode it back from the shop. This is an XS frame and those bars in relation to the height of the saddle are low. The second shows how the stem change raised those bars.

But converting the rapid up to Defy bars would not be cheap. It would require new bars- And gear/brake levers and they are not cheap.

But some people do not want drop bars. I didn't for 16 years and was still in doubt for another 6 months after getting the bike. So if you do want a bike that suits the body now- then get it. There is nothing wrong with that set up and in fact does suit a lot of people.

This confirms my frustration. I can get what I want if I modify existing bikes on the rack or custom order or buy a cross/touring bike.

I know some say certain models are already suited this way, but I've looked, ridden several, and don't agree. I will ride some more, but I'm pretty sure I'll have to modify a bike. Too bad, imo.

Still, it sounds like that will be cheap and easy. I'm not going to fret on it, but it's clear to me that these fun flat bar road bikes are the substitues for relaxed drop bar bikes. That doesn't work for everyone. I think they are missing a market.

I got a Trek Madone 4.5 after years of riding a hybrid. I find the road bike position to be much more comfortable over the long haul, but I didn't think that way at first.

A friend has a flat-bar road bike. He lasts for about an hour before his wrists can't take any more.

Work with a bike shop to pick out something that's pretty comfortable. Ride it and go back for a refit. You'll need it as your body adapts to the new riding style.

This whole topic is frustrating for me. I have a Specialized Tricross Comp and I like it but I don't really know whether it is the ideal geometry/setup for me. I just can't get enough time on other bikes to get a real feel for what works. A test ride from a bike shop doesn't give me enough time on bike to know whether I will really like it and rentals seem to be limited to a model or two - no opportunity to get a variety of bike for long rides. I always had the same problem with skis.

This confirms my frustration. I can get what I want if I modify existing bikes on the rack or custom order or buy a cross/touring bike.

I know some say certain models are already suited this way, but I've looked, ridden several, and don't agree. I will ride some more, but I'm pretty sure I'll have to modify a bike. Too bad, imo.

Still, it sounds like that will be cheap and easy. I'm not going to fret on it, but it's clear to me that these fun flat bar road bikes are the substitues for relaxed drop bar bikes. That doesn't work for everyone. I think they are missing a market.

It sounds like you are expecting the bikes to fit you without adjustments or modifications. It is not possible to provide bicycles that fit everyone perfectly, given the incredible range of variability in the sizes and shapes of human bodies. Short of building custom fit frames, all they can do is shoot for the middle and adjust to variations. Some people will fit them as delivered, others will need to make minor adjustments.

Different makes and models of bikes will fit different people in different ways. There may be another brand of bike that will fit you better than the ones you have tried. It may be a simple matter of making minor adjustments to the bike as delivered. It may take swapping a few parts to fit your specific requirements.

I have needed to make minor changes to every bike I have owned to make them fit better. I have also needed to make changes again after riding them for a while as my fitness and flexibility changed. It is no big deal. In fact, I enjoy the process.

You have to just get out and ride to see what works for you. When I got back into cycling 12-13 years ago, I got a mountain bike because they were the rage at that time. However, as soon as I dusted off my old Bianchi road bike, I was hooked on road riding again. Now I probably ride my mountain bike only 1-2 times a year. To me, flat bars are just uncomfortable -- not enough positions. Drop bars are best because they give you so many options, but I also have one bike set up with bullhorns. Bullhorns are great until you get caught riding into a stiff headwind.

It might be worthwhile to pay for a bike fitting. Some bike shops will do them for free or deduct the cost if you buy a bike from them. You can accomplish wonders with the right stem and handlebar combination, and a good fitter should be able to get you close to ideal. But only you will be able to determine what fits best, and you have to do that the hard way by putting in some miles. A good bike shop will let you swap stems until you get your fit right.

It sounds like you are expecting the bikes to fit you without adjustments or modifications. It is not possible to provide bicycles that fit everyone perfectly, given the incredible range of variability in the sizes and shapes of human bodies. Short of building custom fit frames, all they can do is shoot for the middle and adjust to variations. Some people will fit them as delivered, others will need to make minor adjustments.

Different makes and models of bikes will fit different people in different ways. There may be another brand of bike that will fit you better than the ones you have tried. It may be a simple matter of making minor adjustments to the bike as delivered. It may take swapping a few parts to fit your specific requirements.

I have needed to make minor changes to every bike I have owned to make them fit better. I have also needed to make changes again after riding them for a while as my fitness and flexibility changed. It is no big deal. In fact, I enjoy the process.

Yes, I expect bike manufacturers to make a road bike with drop bars that is set up so it's comfortable to ride without changing out components. We shouldn't have to buy a cyclecross bike. We shouldn't be forced to compromise with a flat bar bike.

Mind you, I'm not talking about bike sizing--I'm talking about what Sheldon Brown mentioned in that review of the '05 Raleigh Cadent. A road bike for the is designed to be ridden by 50 year olds.

Yes, I expect bike manufacturers to make a road bike with drop bars that is set up so it's comfortable to ride without changing out components. They shouldn't have to buy a cyclecross bike. They shouldn't be forced to compromise with a flat bar bike.

Mind you, I'm not talking about bike sizing--I'm talking about what Sheldon Brown mentioned in that review of the '05 Raleigh Cadent. A road bike for the is designed to be ridden by 50 year olds.

A Defy with an adjustable stem should fit the bill. And if you are buying new I can’t see why most LBS wouldn’t switch one out for you as part of the deal.
I realize your frustration but remember you who you are talking with. We are 50 or better and the advice you are getting is from people that have been right where you are. Many of us started with a relaxed road bike or flipped the stem to make it that way and after a few months flipped it back or started spending a bit more time in the drops. Some moved onto a more performance bike and even a race frame. And still we are fifty or better. The point being that just because we are fifty or better doesn’t mean the manufacturers can build a bike that is perfect for someone our age. No one knows what perfect is. That is why they sell adjustable stem, stems of different sizes and all the different pedals and saddles we in this forum use. :D

@OP: while trying not to echo some points made here by others, here's my take on this problem.

1. FWIW, in my view too much is made of the 'flat bars vs. drop bars' thing. Properly set up, flat bars (esp. with good barends) pretty much mimic the two main drop bar positions (hoods and tops). No drops, not quite as aero, but roughly equivalent. Many, many people ride across town, the country, the world with flat bars; there's no necessary connection whatsoever between drop bars and distance cycling. That said, some just don't like flat bars, others (like me) just don't like/get on with drops. A lot of variables here -- you just have to try it all out.

2. I don't agree re. 'comfort road bikes are now flat-bar road bikes'. As others have said, if you want drops, most all of the major manufacturers now have 'plush'/'comfort'/'endurance' road bike variations. The Defy you tried is an example. For a given size, a Defy's top tube is somewhat shorter, and its headtube somewhat taller, than the equivalent TCR (Giant's racing geometry). If you tried the right size, in stock form, and found it uncomforable/unrelaxed, then that simply means either you just don't like/get on with/aren't yet used to drop bars, OR you need a stem length/angle change -- simple as that. There is no reason that a Defy in a given size can't easily/cheaply be set up (at time of purchase) so that your hands on the hoods are pretty much in roughly the same position as they would be on the barends on a Rapid (I'm speaking from experience here, having tested both. Decided against both, 'cause I like my disc-braked, roadified hardtail mtb just as much or more than either:D).

3. One more point, fwiw -- whatever you do, don't make the mistake of buying a properly-sized, well designed flat-bar road bike like the Rapid with the idea of switching it to drops down the road. A Medium Rapid is a full two centimetres longer in the toptube than a medium Defy -- rightly so, to account for the forward throw of drops. Leaving aside the considerable expense of the conversion, unless you ran a silly short stem a drop-barred Rapid would put you in a ridiculously stretched, unrelaxed position.

I've got to a agree with you, badger, regarding the flat bar.

The Defy has a ridiculously long reach on it just to get to the handlebars. That stem has to be 4 inches long. That is the problem--not the frame.

I wouldn't switch flats to drops--didn't mean to say that if I did.

Let me ask this--if i improve and I'm riding the Rapid, how hard is it to drop the height or extend the stem of the flat bar? That would skin the cat in another way, although I still think riding the hoods would help keep my elbows in, even though bar ends could mitigate that.

How about a Kona Dew Drop? Basically a flat bar roadie they added drops to because people started doing the conversion themselves.

http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=dewdrop

Hey thdave!

Re. 'flats to drops' -- I know, just wanted to sound a warning there! Many people (I know some) have made that mistake -- it just never quite works right, unless the flatbar bike was 'short' to begin with (there were some like this, e.g. the older Giant FCRs, but designers seem more on to the differences now).

I agree too re. elbows; one of the undeniable advantages of drops is the aero position -- not just being flatter on the bike but also 'narrower' (if that makes sense).

Having said that, even on a flat-barred bike (e.g. Rapid) there's lots 'n lots of room for adjustment as one gains flexibility: as I recall there's a good stack of spacers, the stem could be flipped -- heck, you can even cut the bars themselves down a few centimetres if you want (limitation is of course the grips/controls, but there's a bit of slush in there).

In other words, there's also no necessary connection between flat bars and a 'sit up and beg' ride position; I have my bike set up in a classic xcountry mtb 'race' position: think very slightly relaxed version of riding the hoods on drops. Not quite as 'flat' or 'narrow', but not that far off/virtually identical position re. pedalling dynamics. There is a trade off, but for me it's acceptable because I'm one of those who find the advantages (given my age, physical limitations, etc.) of flat bars are greater than the losses. If I were 20 years younger, and/or wanted to race on the road, maybe I'd think different, but I'm not -- and I don't;)

If a stem is too long for your preferences, it takes about 5 minutes to change to a shorter one. The shop should make the swap for little or nothing. Even if you had to buy a new stem, you can get one for $20 and sell the old one. I just don't see the problem here. A stem is a part designed to be easily replaceable in order to custom fit a bike to riders of different sizes or preferences. It is not a big deal.

Let me ask this--if i improve and I'm riding the Rapid, how hard is it to drop the height or extend the stem of the flat bar? That would skin the cat in another way, although I still think riding the hoods would help keep my elbows in, even though bar ends could mitigate that.

Most stems fitted to a bike can give you two heights for the bar just by taking it off and turning it upside down. On top of that there are spacers- normally under the stem- on a new bike that can be taken out. Plus the fact that new stems are not that expensive, unless you want to pay for bling, and are available in longer or shorter lengths than the standard fitted to a new bike.

And bar ends-- Easily fitted and do give a change of position for the hands. They also come in a variety of shapes and sizes to give even greater choice.

It is very rare that a new bike fits perfectly off the shelf. But a good LBS will assist you in getting comfortable on a bike by changing a few parts and setting the bike up for you. The problems come a bit later on when you realise that you have adapted to cycling and now require a different fit on the bike.

That is where I try to give a warning to all newcomers. The first bike you buy only serves one purpose. That purpose is to tell you what you should have bought in the first place. This is normal and is why the expression N+1 is seen so often on this forum.

This confirms my frustration. I can get what I want if I modify existing bikes on the rack or custom order or buy a cross/touring bike.

I know some say certain models are already suited this way, but I've looked, ridden several, and don't agree. I will ride some more, but I'm pretty sure I'll have to modify a bike. Too bad, imo.

Still, it sounds like that will be cheap and easy. I'm not going to fret on it, but it's clear to me that these fun flat bar road bikes are the substitues for relaxed drop bar bikes. That doesn't work for everyone. I think they are missing a market.

I need to take you bike shopping/specing.

Yes, I expect bike manufacturers to make a road bike with drop bars that is set up so it's comfortable to ride without changing out components. We shouldn't have to buy a cyclecross bike. We shouldn't be forced to compromise with a flat bar bike.

Mind you, I'm not talking about bike sizing--I'm talking about what Sheldon Brown mentioned in that review of the '05 Raleigh Cadent. A road bike for the is designed to be ridden by 50 year olds.

Swapping stems to get the proper fit is common with drop-bar bikes and new drop-bar riders. Many of us know exactly what we need because we have years of experience on similar bikes. I know that I like a classic geometry frame with a tall head tube with a 57-58cm top tube a 100-110mm stem with enough rise to put the bars about 0-1.5" below my saddle. I also have 6 bikes, 4 of which are drop-bar, so I have something I know is comfy from years of riding to compare to. You don't have that luxury, so I suggest concentrating on looking for proper frame size with a tall head tube and having the shop swap the stem with one that is adjustable. Then you'll be able to experiment and determine what the optimum length and rise are for you, and swap out the stem again for the correct size. Swapping a stem is a piece of cake...not rocket science. :p

Swapping stems to get the proper fit is common with drop-bar bikes and new drop-bar riders. Many of us know exactly what we need because we have years of experience on similar bikes. I know that I like a classic geometry frame with a tall head tube with a 57-58cm top tube a 100-110mm stem with enough rise to put the bars about 0-1.5" below my saddle. I also have 6 bikes, 4 of which are drop-bar, so I have something I know is comfy from years of riding to compare to. You don't have that luxury, so I suggest concentrating on looking for proper frame size with a tall head tube and having the shop swap the stem with one that is adjustable. Then you'll be able to experiment and determine what the optimum length and rise are for you, and swap out the stem again for the correct size. Swapping a stem is a piece of cake...not rocket science. :p

Well, I'm a rocket scientist and I was pretty intimidated.:o I wish they told me this last time I went out for a ride and mentioned the comfort issue I had with the Defy.

I went to Century Cycles today and they showed me steering extenders and adjustable stems, which looked simple to install--I guess I just expect too much with the stock bike. I suspect they'd be fine with changing those out and letting me ride before I bought. Might cost me a few bucks and half or a full pound; might not.

Their store was busy, surprisingly enough for late January, so I didn't bother them for a ride. I rode there, as you might figure, so I was ready.

Interestingly enough, the salesman showed me how they could flip the stem on the Rapid flat bar bike, to lower the bars an inch and a half. Very simple. Also, the stem is adjustable vertically, too, unlike the Defy. Looks like I could make both the flat bar and drop bar bike models work now and again later, if my riding improves and I want to ride lower.

Even though it's no bike deal, I'm still flakey on this and I'm debating if I'm going to do any overnighters with the bike. The idea has gone over like a lead balloon with my family,:o so I'm likely to get the sportier bike rather than steel. We'll see.

Interesting thread. I have the OCR-C, the predecessor to the Defy. I like the OCR-C very much, but was not real thrilled with the Defy. Others I ride with that have the OCR-C have said the same thing. I think the new frame is more aggressive, less relaxed.
To the OP, I agree with those who are encouraging you to buy a drop bar bike. Just try a different brand or a shop who is willing to make more changes to get you a better fit.

Well, I'm a rocket scientist and I was pretty intimidated.:o I wish they told me this last time I went out for a ride and mentioned the comfort issue I had with the Defy.

I went to Century Cycles today and they showed me steering extenders and adjustable stems, which looked simple to install--I guess I just expect too much with the stock bike. I suspect they'd be fine with changing those out and letting me ride before I bought. Might cost me a few bucks and half or a full pound; might not.

Their store was busy, surprisingly enough for late January, so I didn't bother them for a ride. I rode there, as you might figure, so I was ready.

Interestingly enough, the salesman showed me how they could flip the stem on the Rapid flat bar bike, to lower the bars an inch and a half. Very simple. Also, the stem is adjustable vertically, too, unlike the Defy. Looks like I could make both the flat bar and drop bar bike models work now and again later, if my riding improves and I want to ride lower.

Even though it's no bike deal, I'm still flakey on this and I'm debating if I'm going to do any overnighters with the bike. The idea has gone over like a lead balloon with my family,:o so I'm likely to get the sportier bike rather than steel. We'll see.

We have about beaten this topic to death I am sure. Just remember there is no real typical 50 year old in cycling. That is why it is so hard to just pick a bike one off of the rack. It is also the reason so many will suggest you go to a bike shop that will fit you. I will dare say that even if you found the bike that you thought fit you perfectly today you will modify the same bike within six months. It is more than likely it will be three months but I’ll cut you some slack. And if you learn you love longer rides my guess is you will modify it even more and the n+1 bug will attack you. ;)
Don’t ask us how we know. :eek: Just know none of us have ever been where you are now.:innocent:

Well, I'm a rocket scientist and I was pretty intimidated.:o I wish they told me this last time I went out for a ride and mentioned the comfort issue I had with the Defy.

I went to Century Cycles today and they showed me steering extenders and adjustable stems, which looked simple to install--I guess I just expect too much with the stock bike. I suspect they'd be fine with changing those out and letting me ride before I bought. Might cost me a few bucks and half or a full pound; might not.

Their store was busy, surprisingly enough for late January, so I didn't bother them for a ride. I rode there, as you might figure, so I was ready.

Interestingly enough, the salesman showed me how they could flip the stem on the Rapid flat bar bike, to lower the bars an inch and a half. Very simple. Also, the stem is adjustable vertically, too, unlike the Defy. Looks like I could make both the flat bar and drop bar bike models work now and again later, if my riding improves and I want to ride lower.

Even though it's no bike deal, I'm still flakey on this and I'm debating if I'm going to do any overnighters with the bike. The idea has gone over like a lead balloon with my family,:o so I'm likely to get the sportier bike rather than steel. We'll see.

My invitation stands...I'll meet up with you at Century down in Peninsula where we can noodle over it with Derrick, who has built or modified most of my bikes. He knows how to set up a bike for old non-racer boys like us. ;)

You can always have the bike built down there and delivered at the Rocky River store.

OP-I can appreciate your perspective and what you're after. Even with the best of advice from LBS's and knowledgeable input from my riding friends I ventured down the same road you're headed. I started on flat bars and migrated to other setups. It's probably no consolation, but after 10 years and thousands of miles of riding, I'm still fiddling with stem lengths and frame sizes. I can be comfortable with a number of setups, including my current setups but my riding style and physcial needs are changing over time.

Frankly, I think your expectation of a non-customized bike to fit out of the box is probably expecting too much. Even two people who are the same overall height may ride two different setups due to their leg lengths, arm length, torso size, etc. The beauty of a bike is it can be adjusted and dialed in to an individual's needs. That is why there are frame builders out there but they may be beyond your price range.

A real key is to first get the frame geometry and size to your liking. It sounds like you're interested in being more upright so that should direct you towards a certain frame type. Work wtih someone to get you to the best size for you. The placement of the bars has a lot of flexibility by the various stems available. I'm thinking that is where you're going to need to experiment to find out what works best for you. As others have pointed out, a stem is a cheap adjustment in my book. The key is first finding out the right length of stem you want. It sounds like you're probably leaning towards shorter than longer-depending on the top tube length. I'm using a Ritchey adjustable stem on one of my bikes just to try and find the right bar height. It is a little heavy as far as stems go but it's not too expensive and has a lot of variation in terms of height adjustment.

I still prefer drop bars over straight bars as there are lots of different hand positions for drop bars. If you look at drop bars, the ones I find most comfortable are the ergo versions that have a shorter reach from the bars to the hoods.

And we have not even started talking about saddles.......it goes on and on!! You will probably want and need to change the stock saddle that comes on a non-customized bike.

How about north road style bars?

Generally, I prefer drops - so much so that I wanted to convert my little-used mtb. However, that would mean road shifters to fit a drop bar diameter, so I've gone for north roads.

They'll have the equivalent reach of flat bars, while turning the hands to a more natural position - making the whole thing a bit more relaxed.

North road bars help keep your elbows in. I have them on my Breezer. Odd they don't have them on more bikes.

When I got to my 30's and bought a hybrid with flat bars, I started riding a lot. I had rented a bike with them when I was in Monterrey, CA (I rode from the harbor to Pebble Beach and back--it was glorious). Loved it, and I sold my drop bar bike which I hardly ever rode. My cycling took off after I bought fenders and I started commuting 3-4 days/week. I know I love comfy bikes with flat or north road bars. I don't know about the drops, and I've talked myself into this new purchase to increase my cycling, which is my most fulfilling sport, with hopes of long trips.

BTW, the bike salesman told me that the flat bar road bikes were designed for comfortable, fast rides. He advises that I stay with that and adjust it as I go forth. Otherwise, I'm taking a risk with the more agressive geometry.

Thanks, Chip, for your offer. I'm sure you'd help if I went that route, but unless I figure I'm quite a bit better off with drops, I'm going to stay with the bike that gave me the most joy--the flat bar Rapid.