Commuting - Peak oil crisis is here !

Peak oil crisis is not something you read on the internet anymore. It has a big chance of becoming reality if oil prices hit USD 50 per barrel next week. Question is : what will you do now for preparing yourself ? (If you dunno what is peak oil crisis , just do a search of 'peak oil' on the internet)
Here is my list :
1) Ask my friend to sell off all their stock market share
2) Commute as far as you can cause you will have problem buying oil soon !
3) Get myself mentally really for losing my job, the biggest economy cirisis in human history is coming !

If you still don't believe me, read the article at http://dieoff.org

Okay, see the thing about the whole peak oil crisis is that it won't peak, ever. Not noticably anyway. Oil production is such a large process that when it does peak, and begins to fall, as it inevitably will, it will be a gradual process. While I acknowledge that oil is not readily renewable and will run out at some point I very seriously doubt it is going to be anytime in the next decade. Dozens of fancy charts generally mean very little as said charts have predicted total oil industry collapse for many years. Somehow the date keeps getting moved up to the "near future" whenever it is eclipsed.

This being said, I encourage bicycle commuting as a viable alternative to fossil fuel comsumption, and utilize it myself--gas isn't something I like to buy at any price. But listening to the rantings of doomsday prophets who link to things like "Quicktime Movie of Dead Babies Being Thrown Into a Dump Truck" is asinine at best and just downright deluded at worst. This website is little more than a cobbled-together collection of quotes and badly executed and heavily biased semi-scientific charts all aimed at panic. Which does noone any good, really.

edit:spelling

I always bike, so oil only affects me for longer travel, like when I fly. But I will book my flight that I'm doing in September today, just in case the price of flying goes up in the coming weeks. *sigh*

Other than that, oil prices don't affect me much, unless they pass it along to the comsumer at grocery stores, but maybe I should just start going to farmers' market for now anyway.

Koffee

Blah, blah, blah, the sky is falling!!

If you look at the true facts, you'd see that the fair market value of oil is about $35 a barrel. The shamsters in the markets have decided to add on a "terror" premium. Pretty soon the bubble will burst and somebodys gonna be holding the bag.

I've yet to see a gas line or a station closed due to lack of gas.

And whatever happened to the whole Y2K thing?

maybe I should just start going to farmers' market for now anyway.

Totally. Better food, generally pretty nice prices, and awesome selection relative to the corner supermarket.

Man, funny story about farmer's markets. (Cue segue music) My girlfriend and myself were driving down Clairmont in Atlanta, and we were kinda trying to find someplace to eat, and we saw this giant warehouse-looking building broadly labelled "Atlanta Farmer's Market". This was a generally pretty unassuming place, looked pretty all-around good, until we stepped inside. The place was heavily biased toward Asian and Hispanic food--going so far as to have live frogs and bags of fish heads proudly displayed. This, in and of itself, is not that funny, but my girlfriend is an animal lover, and pretty squeamish, at that. Her reaction when she saw the frog cage was priceless, "Oh, look! Frogs! I wonder if they're for sale? Are they pets...(realization that we're in the meat section dawns) Oh my god...".
Needless to say we left pretty rapidly.

AAhhhhgggghhhh!!!! The end is near!

I'm going to hide under my bed until Armageddon! (which is 2012 by the way)

P.S. Can someone tell Bobby Kennedy Jr. to stop taking private jets?

"The shamsters in the markets have decided to add on a "terror" premium."

Given the political instability of the corner of the world where so much oil comes from, the terror premium is not wholly unrealistic.

Keep in mind there are other factors in play here as well, including increasing demand for oil in China and India, corporate legal problems in Russia (no joke), and supply problems in Iraq and Venzuala. It's really a confluence of factors driving up oil prices right now. They are likely to peak out and drop back, but the future probably holds a steady upward curve. Even the Saudis, who traditionally ramp up production to keep prices down, are close to peak production; their recent announcement of increased production did little to calm markets.

However, the price of oil is likely to continue a gradual climb. I doubt many people will change their driving habits; I sometimes think many people would rather drive than eat. They'll just whine loudly as the price goes up, like they already do.

It'll have limited effect on yours truly; I'm only halfway thru the tank of gas I bought back at the end of June. I don't really think the price of gas will raise the price of consumer goods as much as everyone thinks it will; the distribution system, even the US, is far more multi-faceted than most car drivers realize.

Makes me glad that the only fossil fuel I knowingly use is my gas stove. Even then, I don't use it that often. No gas for cars would do nothing to me...

There really isn't much to argue about with Hubbert's peak. It simply says that oil production will reach a peak and this will coincide with the depletion endpoint. The main problem is projecting when the peak will occur, and we just happen to be at a point where more and more industry people are saying we could be reaching it in a few years.

Reaching peak oil also means it should be historically cheap, not expensive.

Conserving oil just delays the inevitable. Why not use it while its cheap and force the issue sooner. I see lots of people doing that. :)

Makes me glad that the only fossil fuel I knowingly use is my gas stove. Even then, I don't use it that often. No gas for cars would do nothing to me...

Your kidding right? If we ran out of gas you would lose your job and have to find a new food source. It ain't going to happen anytime soon but when it does we will all be affected. I think there will be an alternative long before fossil fuels are gone.

Actually, the big asteroid is going to slam into the Earth and make the human race extinct way before oil runs out.

In 2,000,000 years cockroaches will be using human oil for their cars.

(Yikes!)

Your kidding right? If we ran out of gas you would lose your job and have to find a new food source. It ain't going to happen anytime soon but when it does we will all be affected. I think there will be an alternative long before fossil fuels are gone.

That's possible that I might lose my job, but doubtful. The people I work with that live 60-70 miles from work will feel the fuel crunch a lot sooner than I will.

I was thinking more of the crunch where everyone freaks out about the high price of gasoline. That will do pretty much nothing to me. I'd like to think that more expensive oil might influence the amount of it being used in fertilizer, perhaps resulting in more locally grown, organic crops, which would probably make me healthier. The conflicts between those with oil and those that want it will probably effect me a lot more. The lack of fuel for global shipping will probably be one of the main things that would effect me, but most trucks and trains and ships run on deisel, which can readily be substituted with organic products like ethanol - this is already happening in my state, where they offer hibred deisel for many commercial vehicals. There is a lot of grain that is either thrown away every year, and farmers paid not to grow anything in this country. Those crops could easily be used to create viable alternatives to fossil fuels.

There will probably be a lot of SUVs sitting and rusting, but I don't mind that either.

I give it 10 years, but I've always kind of wanted to see modern civilization fall. Go figure.

Very good comment from all. But if you study history, we are living in an era called "Industry economy". And this "economy" are based on "cheap energy". So if "no oil" , then "no economy". The nature will take over. We have a population of 6 billion on this earth. And it is called "over population". Forget about alternative energy because it can only replace 5% of our energy used. Just think of the fact and you will see this is not another Y2K

Tell it to the Mennonites. Life goes on & this country managed to live pretty well in the 17th & 18th century. The main problems were medical & we certainly have made some improvements in that area.

Forget about alternative energy because it can only replace 5% of our energy used. Just think of the fact and you will see this is not another Y2K

Pretty dismissive from someone who doesn't back the statement up at all. France's 78% reliance on nuclear power seems to disagree. Oh, and Japan's 37% reliance on alternative power is pretty damning too, isn't it? Sorta skirting the 420 billion kwh that reactors produce yearly in a highly industrialized country, aren't we?
Boy, I wish I'd studied history so I'd know how doomed we are.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/reactors.htm
http://www.asiatradehub.com/japan/power.asp

Pretty dismissive from someone who doesn't back the statement up at all. France's 78% reliance on nuclear power seems to disagree. Oh, and Japan's 37% reliance on alternative power is pretty damning too, isn't it? Sorta skirting the 420 billion kwh that reactors produce yearly in a highly industrialized country, aren't we?


Additional numbers from my home country Norway, which is one of the largest oil producers in the world. 99% of all electricity in the country is generated from water, and 50% of the total energy consumption is generated from water power (source: http://www.statkraft.com/, direct link to document in Norwegian: http://www.statkraft.no/archive/inter_nor_pdf/01/03/Tysse057.pdf)

Very good comment from all. But if you study history, we are living in an era called "Industry economy". And this "economy" are based on "cheap energy". So if "no oil" , then "no economy". The nature will take over. We have a population of 6 billion on this earth. And it is called "over population". Forget about alternative energy because it can only replace 5% of our energy used. Just think of the fact and you will see this is not another Y2K

All of the above is, at best, highly doubtful. Our species survived for 2 million years before oil dependence, I don't think we'll all perish if supplies were to run a little low. As I've said so many other times, it's just a matter of finding more efficent ways of doing things. Prices of consumer goods will never go any higher than what people are prepared to pay for them, that is a fact. Supply and demand is the main force that determines these things.

Perhaps all that is likely to happen is that governments might start re-directing some of their oil subisidies into alternative fuel sources, or perhaps even *gasp* subsidising the people who actually produce all these things that apparently need to be transported massive distances.

Tell it to the Mennonites. Life goes on & this country managed to live pretty well in the 17th & 18th century. The main problems were medical & we certainly have made some improvements in that area.

Too bad the bacteria will eventually win. It's a lot easier to stay ahead of the game when you aren't worried about profit margins and maxing out a patent.

A concerted effort by the Unites States government could easily eliminate our lust for oil. Oil is always going to be very useful, but there are some things lubes, cooling, and plastics to name a few that oil is much better used for then fuel. Eathanol and bio diseal as well as bio-mass all make sense on many levels. If the automakers decided they could sell more cars and were not in bed with the oil companies you would see a very different energy policy, and if the energy companies did not get to essentially decide energy policy we would all be better off. Did I mention bio fuels contribute essentially 0 CO2 to the atmosphere. That could be nice.

I work for an Oil/Energy Company, a big one.

Reserve replacement is certainly not great at the moment, not every company is achieving even 100%b. However even very brownfield operations such as the North Sea (UK, Netherlands, Norway) have about 50% of total reserves still remaining. We just currently lack the technology to extract it, or it is too expensive to use.

We will eventually run out of oil, and sometime before that be unable to satisfy demand at prices that make oil usage feasbile for mass transit at present, but not inside 20 years.

There are significant players in the UK recommending a drive towards Nuclear power now aswell.

Conserving oil just delays the inevitable. Why not use it while its cheap and force the issue sooner. I see lots of people doing that. :)

It's funny but I said the same thing a while back! Lets waste all the fuel as possible. Conservation should be thrown out the door which will mean higher prices for the SUV drivers! (Just kidding)

Your kidding right? If we ran out of gas you would lose your job and have to find a new food source. It ain't going to happen anytime soon but when it does we will all be affected. I think there will be an alternative long before fossil fuels are gone.

Unless we go back to coal, any alternative will be more expensive than the mode we currently have. That's just it folks. There will always be oil. Always. Just like there will always be diamonds. Whether you can afford it is another matter.

We will eventually run out of oil, and sometime before that be unable to satisfy demand at prices that make oil usage feasbile for mass transit at present, but not inside 20 years.

There are significant players in the UK recommending a drive towards Nuclear power now aswell.

This is what worries me the most. If we run out of fuel for mass transit, cities like New York and London are in big trouble. I suppose we will probably use alternative sources to generate electricity, but expect public transportation fares to skyrocket.

I don't see how we can't at least find some other alternatives to oil. More people driving electric cars would definitely cut back on our consumption and dependence on oil. And here in the USA, we should just overall be looking for a means for cleaner burning fuels like the corn derivatives and creating water from dams and recycling. For some reason, we can be the country in the world with one of the highest populations and do some of the worst damage to the environment, and not even think about the implications of the waste we produce, while at the same time, complain about the world around us!

I am actually going to management today to pitch a proposal for my building (40 stories high) to start a program for recycling- if it works, we will probably be the first building in the city to implement such a progressive recycling program that I suspect will actually work. I can't take not being environmentally conscious, and with all the shortage of supplies in the world, if we could take the materials we've used, I'm sure we could help to decrease the waste and push towards alternative sources of energy.

Koffee

...More people driving electric cars would definitely cut back on our consumption and dependence on oil. ...


More people driving electric cars only addresses the symptoms of our (USA) oil dependence, not the root cause. Those electric cars have to be recharged somehow, and the bulk of our electricity is still generated from oil and other fossil fuels. (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table1_1.html) Don't get me wrong, the shift to electric/hybrid vehicles is a step in the right direction, but it's still a far cry from the radical change of thought and technology necessary to wean us from our wanton and profligate consumption of fossil fuels. I agree, more could and should be done to move the US away from our oil crutch. If we can put people in space, why can't we get super efficiency out of a PV panel? Our dependence on fossil fuels is likewise a marker of just how short-term our society thinks.

A book folks might be interested in that goes more into the fundamental flaws in the way current society thinks about the stuff we make and own is: Cradle to Cradle: Rethinking the Way We Make Things, by William McDonough and Michael Braungart.
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0865475873/104-0680371-1417550?v=glance)

The price of gas and oil will come down 1 month to 2 weeks *right before* the election. Just watch. Bush pretty much publicly made a deal with the Saudis to hike up the price of gas right now, then sink the price right before the election, so people will say "Hey, this guys doing a pretty good job keeping the oil prices down, I think I'll voet for him.' Just watch.

The US's lust for oil will not stop as long as the oil industry/car industry/entertaiment industry keeps selling this "endless supply" theory. Only when the oil supply comes to a crashing halt will people realize how spoiled they've been for the past 20years (since the last oil crisis) and do something to conserve.

Viva la Bike!!

Ah, um... you're wrong.

The Saudis have been doing everything they can to "talk down" the oil market over the last few weeks, with little effect. The Saudis do not control oil prices now, traders on the NY Mercantile Exchange and on other bourses around the world do. Their actions are utterly transparent and in full view of the world.

If oil does come down in price, it won't be because some men in a smoke-filled room have decided the price.



The price of gas and oil will come down 1 month to 2 weeks *right before* the election. Just watch. Bush pretty much publicly made a deal with the Saudis to hike up the price of gas right now, then sink the price right before the election, so people will say "Hey, this guys doing a pretty good job keeping the oil prices down, I think I'll voet for him.' Just watch.

Is this the commuting forum or Bartertown? Two men enter, one man leaves...

Master-Blaster says, "Lift embargo!"

A concerted effort by the Unites States government could easily eliminate our lust for oil. Careful, or the feebs will come visit you... Everybody knows the US Gov't *is* the oil industry!

-chris

Unless we go back to coal, any alternative will be more expensive than the mode we currently have. That's just it folks. There will always be oil. Always. Just like there will always be diamonds. Whether you can afford it is another matter.

It will be untill it is made easily avalible to the public. Based on income, gas is much cheaper now than it was 50 years ago.

More people driving electric cars only addresses the symptoms of our (USA) oil dependence, not the root cause. Those electric cars have to be recharged somehow, and the bulk of our electricity is still generated from oil and other fossil fuels. (http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table1_1.html) Don't get me wrong, the shift to electric/hybrid vehicles is a step in the right direction, but it's still a far cry from the radical change of thought and technology necessary to wean us from our wanton and profligate consumption of fossil fuels. I agree, more could and should be done to move the US away from our oil crutch. If we can put people in space, why can't we get super efficiency out of a PV panel? Our dependence on fossil fuels is likewise a marker of just how short-term our society thinks.

A book folks might be interested in that goes more into the fundamental flaws in the way current society thinks about the stuff we make and own is: Cradle to Cradle: Rethinking the Way We Make Things, by William McDonough and Michael Braungart.
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0865475873/104-0680371-1417550?v=glance)

I'm totally aware of this fact- that's why I suggested other things within that post I did that you mentioned before. There is a lot more to that post then mentioning electric cars- go back and reread and you'll see a blurb in there about corn derivatives and other alternative energy we should be looking for, using water to create electricity, etc. I thought it was clear that I was aware that there is more to it than just driving an electric car and assuming the earth would be saved.

Koffee

Peak Oil theory and energy - my pet obsession. I can't get it out of my head since I learned about it last year. That dieoff.org place was scary if you really read the stuff. There is nothing to refute in there. Well maybe some stuff but it is scientific and science is the search for the truth.

Olduvia theory is the one to be afraid of. Peak natural gas and the gas cliff.

It is the thought that our progress will peak and go into decline and NEVER EVER rise again since we have used up so much of the earth's allotment of fossil fuels that is scary.

Money Energy Politics, Our lifesytle - are all related. Ever heard that Money makes the world go 'round. Well that is wrong. Energy makes the world go 'round. Money is just the way it is alloted.

Oh I had a good commute today!

Screw all this talk of gas peaks. What's NASA doing? We should be floating with anti matter thingies. C'mon NASA what are you guys waitin' on?

Hydro electric, biomass and nuclear are not the solution for our total energy problem. In fact, it is just fantasy to think of we can used these energy to replace fossil oil. I will explain why..

Generate eletricity from water ? If oil is finished, we will need a lot of mega hydro electric project to generate all this electricity. To make a hydro electric plant, you need to clean up a large piece of land, move mountain and all these process take 10 to 20 years ! And how do you do all this thing without cheap oil ?? Cow ? Horse ? Bicycle ?? Get real.....

Biodiesel and ethanol ?? Yes...they all can be used to replace petrol and diesel. But in order to change corn and soya bean to oil you need to burn it. The process used large amount of energy from coal and natural gas. As much as the energy you generate from the biomass. Natural gas is almost finished and price of coal is skyrocket. So this thing will not work..

Nuclear ?? That is the worst solution for all. First of all, you need uranium that is in limited supply. And the by product of nuclear is highly dangerous to human for thousand of years. So where you going to throw it ? Into the sea ?? And here is the real reason why nuclear doesn't work : you can't make nuclear reactor without cheap fossil oil !

That day I asked a person what will we do when our earth natural resources is finished ? He said we will move to the moon...

Many of us human here are treating industrial era as a kind of religion.. They believe that technology and science will keep go on and solve all our problem and our standard of living will only go up and not down. But they don't realise this era is running out of gas and will end soon. Try to tell a christian there is no god and see what they reply.

Peak oil crisis is not Y2K !! It is real !!

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html

Peak oil crisis is not Y2K !! It is real !!

I've been hearing this sort of stuff for the five years I've been online. What I haven't yet heard, is conclusive proof that this would necessarily be a bad thing.

I've been hearing this sort of stuff for the five years I've been online. What I haven't yet heard, is conclusive proof that this would necessarily be a bad thing.

I'm pretty much certain it will be a good thing in the long run. Sure, a lot of people in the generation that gets hit with it will be inconvenienced, and maybe a lot of people will die. Some might see that as bad.

But if you look at it in a longer time frame, it will most likely lead to a healthier, more enlightened society. And do good things for the planet.

And give me lots of nice empty roads to ride in.

I just thought of something though - how will my Jameson get to the states? Should I start stockpiling?

Hydro electric, biomass and nuclear are not the solution for our total energy problem. In fact, it is just fantasy to think of we can used these energy to replace fossil oil. I will explain why..

Generate eletricity from water ? If oil is finished, we will need a lot of mega hydro electric project to generate all this electricity. To make a hydro electric plant, you need to clean up a large piece of land, move mountain and all these process take 10 to 20 years ! And how do you do all this thing without cheap oil ?? Cow ? Horse ? Bicycle ?? Get real.....

Biodiesel and ethanol ?? Yes...they all can be used to replace petrol and diesel. But in order to change corn and soya bean to oil you need to burn it. The process used large amount of energy from coal and natural gas. As much as the energy you generate from the biomass. Natural gas is almost finished and price of coal is skyrocket. So this thing will not work..

Nuclear ?? That is the worst solution for all. First of all, you need uranium that is in limited supply. And the by product of nuclear is highly dangerous to human for thousand of years. So where you going to throw it ? Into the sea ?? And here is the real reason why nuclear doesn't work : you can't make nuclear reactor without cheap fossil oil !

That day I asked a person what will we do when our earth natural resources is finished ? He said we will move to the moon...

Many of us human here are treating industrial era as a kind of religion.. They believe that technology and science will keep go on and solve all our problem and our standard of living will only go up and not down. But they don't realise this era is running out of gas and will end soon. Try to tell a christian there is no god and see what they reply.

Peak oil crisis is not Y2K !! It is real !!

People really do not travel well, and they have even less imagination. That's a problem.

Go to countries like Switzerland, where I travelled past MANY plants that created electricity from water. But of course, Switzerland is environmentally conscious, so they would actually consider the land for electricity generation swap a good idea. Which is what they did. I was in Gstaad, one of the wealthiest cities in the world, and they were part of the community that used the electricity generated from water. Never a problem, never had power outages, and boy did I feel like I would not be using electricity when I didn't need it! You don't waste over there, and if you don't need it, you don't use it. It works for them, and I'm sure if we put some effort into it, it could work for us as well.

If we were really concerned we'd be using the energy like what they use for the space shuttles- Twahl's wife was telling me about it, and I was fascinated- using hydrogen and oxygen to fuel the launch, which in turn, left a by-product of water! If they can shoot a shuttle into space and man a space station, how is it that by now, we haven't been able to find viable, cleaner, more environmentally safer alternatives for energy? This is bulls*it!

Koffee

The answer to the lack of solutions is not that there are no solutions. Rather, it's more to do with the fact that: (1) our priorities as a society are terribly screwed up; we live in a world where outright gluttonly and excess cohabitate side-by-side with massive want, waste, and deprivation. There was an old Motown song called "Ball of Confusion" covered in the 80s by Love and Rockets; I'm sure someone will do a subsequent cover for our day and age; nothing much as changed, in fact, for many people, it's gotten much worse! (2) the average person has practically no say and no leverage or power to set such priorities; (3) I would venture to guess that if ordinary people did have have a real say in setting priorities, there sure as hell wouldn't be things such as Stock Exchanges, "backroom deals", Enrons, etc.

It's as ridiculously simlple (and immensely difficult) as that. In the meantime, Rome (in the global sense) continues to burn for most of it's citizens, and Nero continues to dabble at his lyre...

I'm totally aware of this fact- that's why I suggested other things within that post I did that you mentioned before. There is a lot more to that post then mentioning electric cars- go back and reread and you'll see a blurb in there about corn derivatives and other alternative energy we should be looking for, using water to create electricity, etc. I thought it was clear that I was aware that there is more to it than just driving an electric car and assuming the earth would be saved.

Koffee


Sorry, Koffee, I wasn't bagging on you. It was the way I read it, with the sentence about electric cars dovetailing into the alternate fuel sentence. I got stuck in the automobile rut and didn't make the connection you meant about overall energy sources. My bad.

-Coffee

the answer of course is nuclear energy, requiring any car driven on road to be electric, and the manufacture of synthetic oils. It's the three being done in unison that can give the best effects.

This would minimize our dependancies on oil as much as possible. The plastics industry will still have to find a way to go on, but I'm sure they will find a way.

Makes me glad that the only fossil fuel I knowingly use is my gas stove. Even then, I don't use it that often. No gas for cars would do nothing to me...

I dunno about you, but I think the places I've lived have generally had heating and/or air conditioning that was powered by fossil fuels or fossil-fuel-generated electricity.

My bike isn't fossil fuel powered but my grocery store and house are.

cerewa Quote:Makes me glad that the only fossil fuel I knowingly use is my gas stove. Even then, I don't use it that often. No gas for cars would do nothing to me...

Except shut down the entire infrastructure.
You must live in a tent in the woods and forage for food.

I've yet to see a gas line or a station closed due to lack of gas. Where were you in 1974? (Okay, totally different sitch, but it has happened.)



And whatever happened to the whole Y2K thing? A whole lot of programmers worked their @sses off, finding and changing millions of lines of code, and reformatting and updating millions of database fields, to minimize its impact. (Many made loads of overtime pay in the process....) It seemed as if darn little actually happened, and yes, darn little did happen, but only because a butt-load was put into it in advance. Not sure how this compares, though, because (1) the solution was much more recognizable (we talked about it in the early '80s, when I first started COBOL programming, so the industry knew what to do, they just procrastinated WAAAAY too long in doing it), (2) there wasn't the profit motive in not changing all that code, whereas there is a LOT of money locked up in the oil industry, and (3) the problem was on a much smaller scale. Yeah, there were lots of programs and databases to fix, but global energy use is a much bigger kettle of fish.

Where were you in 1974? (Okay, totally different sitch, but it has happened.)


A whole lot of programmers worked their @sses off, finding and changing millions of lines of code, and reformatting and updating millions of database fields, to minimize its impact. (Many made loads of overtime pay in the process....) It seemed as if darn little actually happened, and yes, darn little did happen, but only because a butt-load was put into it in advance. Not sure how this compares, though, because (1) the solution was much more recognizable (we talked about it in the early '80s, when I first started COBOL programming, so the industry knew what to do, they just procrastinated WAAAAY too long in doing it), (2) there wasn't the profit motive in not changing all that code, whereas there is a LOT of money locked up in the oil industry, and (3) the problem was on a much smaller scale. Yeah, there were lots of programs and databases to fix, but global energy use is a much bigger kettle of fish.

Blaa blaa blaa, what a crock.

Forgot to mention, we currently use nuclear fission (splitting of atoms) to make power. FUSION (the combining of atoms) is the method that will be the best. Only problem is it's very expensive and it's harder to work with than fission, however the materials for it are readily availble from of all places, our own ocean floor. Given the by-products are something that would be best buried in some waste facility out in the middle of nowhere...but from my understanding it's nowhere near as bad as fission wastes.

besides's killing malthus (points if you get that), some things i think are pertininent to the debate.

western montana alone has enough wind to potentially generate 10-15% of U.S energy needs

alternative energy shouldn't have to be put up to the standard of providing enough energy to satisfy our culture of consumption & waste, we need to learn how to do more w/ less, ie: be more efficient (it's possible y'all)

to that end, heating & cooling are architectual issues, & dealing w/ them as energy issues is wasteful, not to ignorant of the vast potential in harnessing natural systems

the motown song "ball of confusion" was by the Temptations, the Temptations rule, this is indisputable.

the average peice of food travels in the neighborhood of 3000mi in the USA-think about how much fossil fuel that uses, not to mention that oil is converted to fertilizer as well, local, organic food produciton would greatly reduce our dependence on oil, lawns suck, grow your own food, it's less expensive & better for you.

repeat: kill every last vestige of malthus that resides in you-there is enough if you kick it like Bucky Fuller

Its just a scam. Gas suppies are not so low that prices must surge. The gas companies will find any excuse to up the price. Its like any other product that is bought and sold. The higher the price the public will pay the better. It is easy to trick us into thinking a product is rare, especially when it is caught up in a war. Go to Ebay and see what people are paying for a $1 Lance rubber band.

I think there is enough Petro in Alaska an Canada alone to supply North Americas needs. An oil pipline in the middle of a tundra attracts wildlife because piplines are warm. Think about it. If you were a deer and it's whatever below zero. And somebody stick a big warm pipeline in the middle of no where. Are you (1) gonna stay away from the nice warm heat source, or (2) are you gonna move towards it? Assuming animals move towards pipeline and they do, they will procreate and eat and do whatever they do more.

I CONCUR WITH YOU.

And I am a State of Texas Professional Licensed Geoscientist working with one of the Top Two oilfield services companies in the world. I have been engaged in the search for oil and gas for almost 20 years. We could be at or near the peak. There are no good substitutes for oil and gas. This is going to be a rough century.


Peter




Hydro electric, biomass and nuclear are not the solution for our total energy problem. In fact, it is just fantasy to think of we can used these energy to replace fossil oil. I will explain why..

Generate eletricity from water ? If oil is finished, we will need a lot of mega hydro electric project to generate all this electricity. To make a hydro electric plant, you need to clean up a large piece of land, move mountain and all these process take 10 to 20 years ! And how do you do all this thing without cheap oil ?? Cow ? Horse ? Bicycle ?? Get real.....

Biodiesel and ethanol ?? Yes...they all can be used to replace petrol and diesel. But in order to change corn and soya bean to oil you need to burn it. The process used large amount of energy from coal and natural gas. As much as the energy you generate from the biomass. Natural gas is almost finished and price of coal is skyrocket. So this thing will not work..

Nuclear ?? That is the worst solution for all. First of all, you need uranium that is in limited supply. And the by product of nuclear is highly dangerous to human for thousand of years. So where you going to throw it ? Into the sea ?? And here is the real reason why nuclear doesn't work : you can't make nuclear reactor without cheap fossil oil !

That day I asked a person what will we do when our earth natural resources is finished ? He said we will move to the moon...

Many of us human here are treating industrial era as a kind of religion.. They believe that technology and science will keep go on and solve all our problem and our standard of living will only go up and not down. But they don't realise this era is running out of gas and will end soon. Try to tell a christian there is no god and see what they reply.

Peak oil crisis is not Y2K !! It is real !!