Training & Nutrition - A Real Mans Bike...

Being a banana bike which has the capacity to be loaded with an additional 30 banana's, taking advantage of the Progressive Overload principal.

In order to achieve new results, as opposed to maintaining the current strength capacity of the body... the muscles & central nervous system need to be overloaded with more banana's, which stimulates the natural adaptive processes of the human body. Overload the banana's accordingly.


http://bdfunhouse.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/banana-bike.jpg
Source; Me with "The Beast" at the Death Valley Salt Flats.


http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy148/ar-bike/DSC_3360.jpg



Vs.



The whip around my grandma could push.


http://www.bicycle-classifieds.com/images/312_2009011827.jpg


The body will only recruit the sufficient & necessary number of motor units needed to supply the desired force to the banana bike & the additional 30 banana's..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_overload

Please discuss sensibly.

That's 88.18 pounds. Did they use solid iron bars to build the frame?

That's 88.18 pounds. Did they use solid iron bars to build the frame?

Yeah, 88.18 pounds of solid banana, something I have been longing for to come on eBay, plenty of resistance. Its why I train in my banana bike & overload it with an additional 30 banana's. Bikes of today are too light, takes forever & a day to start putting something into your legs.

Heres me burning it up on Malibu Beach...

http://www.afunnystuff.com/pics/funny/2919.jpg

Bikes of today are too light, takes forever & a day to start putting something into your legs.You're not pedalling fast enough...

You're not pedalling fast enough...

I am... But fatigue starts setting in that much quicker riding in my banana bike, which personally is what I'm after with regards to my own training purposes/goals.

I am... But fatigue starts setting in that much quicker riding my heavier bikes, which personally is what I'm after with regards to my own training purposes/goals.The only way fatigue will set in faster is if you are putting out more power. Sorry, but riding a heavy bike won't make you faster.

The only way fatigue will set in faster is if you are putting out more power. Sorry, but riding a heavy bike won't make you faster.

Touchy. I'm just exciting the nervous system to a much greater degree than that in normal training on a paper mache run around that your use to.

Touchy. I'm just exciting the nervous system to a much greater degree than that in normal training on a paper mache run around that your use to.

Fail. The power that you put out is independent of the weight of your bike. If you need a heavy bike to make you work harder it just means you lack willpower to push yourself hard enough on your own.

I train in my banana bike. If the same movement is then practised soon after with no resistance (your very light bike) this increased excitation of my central nervous system allows a faster movement. It also gives me the feeling of moving very easily which helps me to go faster than the limits which I have imposed on myself. No arguments please. Thankyou.

You are funny. You can't just say something ridiculous and then "no arguments" and not expect someone to call you on it. I won't argue about what you feel, I believe that you do feel that. Of course if you train on a heavy bike and then move to a light bike you will feel faster. And of course you will actually be faster, than you were on the heavy bike. But you will not be any faster than if you had done the same heavy bike effort on the lighter bike.

For example, I just went out and did a 3x10 set of threshold intervals climbing at a specific effort. With a heavier bike they would not have been any different, I just would not have gotten as far up the hill. It would not be a "better" workout. If you go as hard as you can, your body doesn't care how heavy the bike is (except as far as it affects your cadence), the amount of power you are capable of is fixed, the only variable is how fast you end up going.

Need BB90 - I believe there will be too much flex otherwise.

Geez, umd, he's posting on Training & Nutrition, not The 41 (TM). I know what he's talking about. It's a perception thing, perhaps, but after I ride my 50 lb. Raleigh for a few days, then jump on a lighter bike, it's a lot easier to accelerate.

Lighten up, Francis.

Yes, of course it is a perception thing. I agreed to that. It feels like you are going faster because you were just on a heavy bike. But that doesn't mean that you are going faster or that the heavier bike is better for training, unless you are lazy.

Another way to increase the load on your legs would be to simply reduce cadence. You'd get a pretty tough leg workout from mashing up the hills, even on a road bike.

You could just adjust your brake until it's dragging as well. What's the point?

I think umd's greater point is that ***** is an idiot. He's correct.

Meh, umd's overly critical and needs to lighten up. Whether Sick's 'right' or 'wrong' doesn't matter, it's just forum chat.

I guess I didn't get the memo that everyone is supposed to agree about everything regardless of how stupid. We're just chatting, doesn't matter if what we say is wrong. Boo hiss for correcting.

Bottom line is a heavier bike doesn't magically allow you work harder, although it may motivate you to do so. If using a heavier bike makes you feel better about your workout then good for you. But don't delude yourself into thinking you necessarily get a better workout with a heavier bike, or more to the point, that you can't get the same workout with a lighter bike.

If you go as hard as you can, your body doesn't care how heavy the bike is.

Ah... But your central nervous system does.

That makes no sense. If you are pushing 300w up a climb at 80rpm it makes no difference if you are going 10mph or 5mph. The forces on your body are exactly the same.

That makes no sense. If you are pushing 300w up a climb at 80rpm it makes no difference if you are going 10mph or 5mph. The forces on your body are exactly the same.

But I'm increasing the stimulation of the central nervous system. Away from cycling (but the prinicipal remains exactly the same)... How did Bruce Lee train?... Where did he get his power from???, His speed???...

But I'm increasing the stimulation of the central nervous system. Away from cycling (but the prinicipal remains exactly the same)... How did Bruce Lee train?... Where did he get his power from???, His speed???...You're not increasing anything but you are making less sense. What does 'increasing the stimulation of the central nervous system' even mean? I wasn't aware Bruce Lee was an endurance athlete.

But I'm increasing the stimulation of the central nervous system. Away from cycling (but the prinicipal remains exactly the same)... How did Bruce Lee train?... Where did he get his power from???, His speed???...

The more you type the less sense you make. You shouldn't have turned down uni, you clearly needed it.

Answer me this, what other factors are there that contribte to the workout other than the force on the pedals and the speed at which you move the pedals around (cadence)?

Touchy.

umm... its touche.... but thats neither here nor there...

You're not increasing anything but you are making less sense. What does 'increasing the stimulation of the central nervous system' even mean? I wasn't aware Bruce Lee was an endurance athlete.

It means increasing the rate at which your brain can "fire" your muscles more powerfully.... A punch, a kick, spinning the cranks. You train for that, increasing the stimulation by means of training.

Bruce Lee was an endurance athlete in ways (with regards to VO2), "Strength endurance"? Forget about it, in terms of overall complete physical fitness, not many, if any topped him. But this is about power & only a few men could fire there muscles off as quickly as him (due to stimulating his central nervous system through training). I apply them methods which have been around for 100's of years & knock spots off the crap that comes out of sports science labs of today.


Answer me this, what other factors are there that contribte to the workout other than the force on the pedals and the speed at which you move the pedals around (cadence)?

Everything is there... Force on the pedals, cadence... ITS HOW YOU GO ABOUT IT Like I said, Power?... I'm talking Bruce Lee.

You're an idiot and I'm going to stop wasting my energy on you.

You're an idiot and I'm going to stop wasting my energy on you.

lol, dude I thought you would have realized this in your previous exchange with the OP.

You're an idiot and I'm going to stop wasting my energy on you.

Thats cool. I know all this arguing might seem I don't respect you. I do, BIG TIME, as I do all cyclists.

We just have different opinions. I'm not saying your right or wrong, I have taken on board what you have told me. I might be an idiot BUT what I do is, I use the EXACT same prinicipals that the most powerful guys of all time use (take them & apply to cycling, thats all).

Now, I'm not going to listen to tom, dick & harry that have just graduated from Harvard. There not fast, nor powerful. I don't care for what speeds there subjects limbs have achieved or what the graph readouts say. I take the fastest/most powerful guys in history (Shaolins/Grandmasters/Bruce Lee etc) & apply them same methods which are brought on by stimulating the central nervous system to my cycling training. Its something fun.

I'm not looking to win the Tour you know, lol...

You keep saying "are brought on by stimulating the central nervous system" like it actually means something.

You are talking out of your ass.

Your nervous system is stimulated exactly the same if the forces are the same. If you put in the same effort then the forces are the same.

If your workout is not as good on a lighter bike it just means you are weak willed.

To believe otherwise just means you are looking for an easy out and making excuses.

If you are dedicated and willing to work hard it does not matter how light or heavy your bike is because you can push yourself to your limit regardless.

You are talking out of your ass.

And you're acting like one. Does it make you feel like a big man to come in and **** all over someone's thread?

And you're acting like one. Does it make you feel like a big man to come in and **** all over someone's thread?

Read posts 3-6 and tell me I'm the one "****" all over someone's thread. The thread was "****" from the beginning.

*****, you can look at this from the other side. A light bike makes it easier to not work hard. But it does not necessarily mean you can't get the hard workout you are looking for, you just have to force yourself to work hard instead of letting the bike make it easy for you. Just shift to a higher gear and pedal the crap out of it. That's what Greg was saying, and that's the point that you are missing in your stubbornness.

You keep saying "are brought on by stimulating the central nervous system" like it actually means something.

You are talking out of your ass.

Your nervous system is stimulated exactly the same if the forces are the same. If you put in the same effort then the forces are the same.

If your workout is not as good on a lighter bike it just means you are weak willed.

To believe otherwise just means you are looking for an easy out and making excuses.

If you are dedicated and willing to work hard it does not matter how light or heavy your bike is because you can push yourself to your limit regardless.

Its hard to explain umd, I'm right, but its hard to understand.

Its like this. You as an athlete right, your nervous system, as it was when you first began cycling learns a top speed or power output. Now what I do, what Bruce Lee's big secret was, to teach himself to move faster than the speed barrier he had imposed on himself OR teach myself to move faster than the speed barrier which was imposed on me when I first began cycling. Your developing the nervous system, teaching your brain to fire every muscle (power) faster. It comes with training.

Just shift to a higher gear and pedal the crap out of it. That's what Greg was saying, and that's the point that you are missing in your stubbornness.

NO! YOU DON'T SHIFT TO A HIGHER GEAR. Your losing POWER.

Its like this. You as an athlete right, your nervous system, as it was when you first began cycling learns a top speed or power output. Now what I do, what Bruce Lee's big secret was, to teach himself to move faster than the speed barrier he had imposed on himself OR teach myself to move faster than the speed barrier which was imposed on me when I first began cycling. Your developing the nervous system, teaching your brain to fire every muscle (power) faster. It comes with training.

Except your muscles don't fire faster, they fire the same because your effort is independent of the speed. What matters is the leg speed(i.e. muscle contractions), not the bike speed.

However, there is one instance where the concept of which you speak does apply, but you have it backwards. If you want to teach yourself speed, you do motorpacing. Reduce the resistance so that you go really fast.

NO! YOU DON'T SHIFT TO A HIGHER GEAR. Your losing POWER.

You have it backwards. A higher gear is harder. A higher gear at the same cadence takes more power because it moves the bike farther.

Except your muscles don't fire faster, they fire the same because your effort is independent of the speed. What matters is the leg speed(i.e. muscle contractions), not the bike speed.

However, there is one instance where the concept of which you speak does apply, but you have it backwards. If you want to teach yourself speed, you do motorpacing. Reduce the resistance so that you go really fast.

YOUR muscles don't fire faster BECAUSE you have "limited" yourself, or imposed a limit due to resistance or the weight of the bike your pushing. That power has been learnt, its there, its constant, its the same resistance, day in, day out on the same bike... Your nervous system has learn't that speed (power) now go & learn a higher one, one that is going to stimulate your nervous system to a higher degree.

You have it backwards. A higher gear is harder. A higher gear at the same cadence takes more power because it moves the bike farther.

"At the same cadence". What happens to cadence when you shift to higher gears???...

Reduce the resistance so that you go really fast.

You've hit the nail on the head. "Reduce the resistance so that you go really fast".

No! INCREASE the resistance more & more & more & more, faster, faster, faster, THEN REDUCE IT. BOOM.

You have stimulated the nervous system.

"At the same cadence". What happens to cadence when you shift to higher gears???...

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. If you keep the same power then your cadence will drop when you shift to a higher gear. If you keep the same cadence then your power will rise. My point, as well as Greg's, is that if you want to work harder, shift to a higher gear.

You've hit the nail on the head. Reduce the resistance so that you go really fast.

No! INCREASE the resistance more & more & more & more THEN REDUCE IT. BOOM.

Oh my god you are like a little kid with his fingers in his ears shouting over everyone when they are trying to talk. You don't need a heavier bike to increase the resistance. You can just pedal faster in a harder gear.

Ah... But your central nervous system does.

what the **** does this mean. Do you even understand the cns and muscle contractions?

YOUR muscles don't fire faster BECAUSE you have "limited" yourself, or imposed a limit due to resistance or the weight of the bike your pushing. That power has been learnt, its there, its constant, its the same resistance, day in, day out on the same bike... Your nervous system has learn't that speed (power) now go & learn a higher one, one that is going to stimulate your nervous system to a higher degree.

I am not limiting anything. I increase my resistance by riding faster uphill. I got a nice threshold workout in yesterday, and another today.

http://www.photoscene.com/kimandsteve/images/8859.png

http://www.photoscene.com/kimandsteve/images/8861.png

The only way fatigue will set in faster is if you are putting out more power. Sorry, but riding a heavy bike won't make you faster.


Wrong, Ride a bike for a thousand miles. Then ride the same bike on tour with 50+ lbs of extra weight for a thousand miles. Ride the bike again, when you get back with no weight. You are faster, and stronger. 100% of the time.

Not to degrade the "science" or "medicine" behind it. But from personal results. Every single time I add weight and go on tour, I come back Faster and stronger than riding the same amount without the weight.

Read posts 3-6 and tell me I'm the one "****" all over someone's thread. The thread was "****" from the beginning.

You two were made for each other.

Wrong, Ride a bike for a thousand miles. Then ride the same bike on tour with 50+ lbs of extra weight for a thousand miles. Ride the bike again, when you get back with no weight. You are faster, and stronger. 100% of the time.

It still comes down to effort. The heavier bike makes it harder to "cheat" and go easy. If you forced yourself to do the same effort as you do with the extra weight it would make no difference.

For most people, a heavier bike will likely make them work harder than they would on a lighter bike. Fine, I'll agree to that. But a lighter bike does not necessarily make for less of a workout. You can get the same workout regardless of bike weight if you so chose.

Wrong, Ride a bike for a thousand miles. Then ride the same bike on tour with 50+ lbs of extra weight for a thousand miles. Ride the bike again, when you get back with no weight. You are faster, and stronger. 100% of the time.

Not to degrade the "science" or "medicine" behind it. But from personal results. Every single time I add weight and go on tour, I come back Faster and stronger than riding the same amount without the weight.

Worked for me last year. Rode 8,000 miles then went on a 4,000 mile tour.
Totally Stronger after the tour......

It still comes down to effort. The heavier bike makes it harder to "cheat" and go easy. If you forced yourself to do the same effort as you do with the extra weight it would make no difference.

For most people, a heavier bike will likely make them work harder than they would on a lighter bike. Fine, I'll agree to that. But a lighter bike does not necessarily make for less of a workout. You can get the same workout regardless of bike weight if you so chose.

Yes, this makes sense. I agree a lighter bike does not make it impossible to achieve same work out, but there is a reason than you use a light bike for racing. The minimize the effort needed over that exact same amount of riding. You can always compare apples to oranges in this case which is riding a bike for 120 miles or riding a bike for 50 miles. Or like you said above, by increasing the grade or tension or whatever the case may be. For training purposes. If you could Only ride exactly 50 miles of the exact same terrain every day. Doing it in a heaver bike will help you ride the lighter bike later.

umd, you said it best; "Reduce the resistance so that you go really fast".

Keep in mind that same prinicipal for the future, BUT keep PROGRESSING, with that same principal.

wow, that was a whole bunch of awesome in two pages.
(http://www.bikeforums.net/../member.php?183197-ick3nin-vend3t)

Yes, this makes sense. I agree a lighter bike does not make it impossible to achieve same work out, but there is a reason than you use a light bike for racing. The minimize the effort needed over that exact same amount of riding. You can always compare apples to oranges in this case which is riding a bike for 120 miles or riding a bike for 50 miles. Or like you said above, by increasing the grade or tension or whatever the case may be. For training purposes. If you could Only ride exactly 50 miles of the exact same terrain every day. Doing it in a heaver bike will help you ride the lighter bike later.

I will stipulate that, in the very limited situation of having a fixed distance to ride, a heavier bike would make your workout take longer and therefore you would do more work. However, riding a lighter bike just means that for the same effort you would go farther in the same amount of time. If you think of training in time rather than distance then riding the lighter bike at the same effort faster for the same amount of time covers more distance but you still did the same amount of work and got the same workout. This is why people from "the 33" always say that it's about time and intensity not miles whenever the distance pissing contest threads come up. When I get my workouts from my coach, they say do 'a' power for 'b' time. Not go 'c' distance. It doesn't matter at all how far I end up going over the course of that, except as needed for logistics to plan where I need to be to do certain workouts. e.g finding a stretch of road where I can do 10 minutes uninterrupted, or get to a climb, etc.

If you could Only ride exactly 50 miles of the exact same terrain every day. Doing it in a heaver bike will help you ride the lighter bike later.

Nah, not really. The point umd is trying to get you guys to see is that if you ride the lighter bike at the same power output as you'd ride the heavier bike, the benefit to your body will be the same. The only difference is that the speed you are traveling will be faster on the lighter bike.

edit: sorry, was writing the same time as umd's follow up above.