Fifty Plus (50+) - What are some good places to retire?

Oh boy,
I need to find a warmer place to live for my health. We have been looking on the internet, talking to people. The result so far is confusion..

Part of the problem is that cycling is not an issue for most people. We like Florida, but much of it is not so good for cyclists (for example).

So many questions.

Where are you thinking of retiring?

Texas has anything you could want.

Arizona and California would keep you warm.

Whats wrong with Florida?

About a billion grannies that can't see over the steering wheel. High rate of auto accidents
down there. Since we would want to be near the ocean and live inexpensively, I suspect anywhere
we go, they will be.

Green Valley, Arizona has a great climate, a sizable cycling population, wide streets, and nearby mountains.

What kind of riding would you prefer-mostly flats, mostly hills or a good combination. Do you prefer rural or urban living? Help us narrow the scope a bit. Do you plan to keep your Maine residence for summer visits?

My daughter lives in Tucson, Az and it is intriguing-summer riding best done very early in the day. I know some folks considering an area around Greenville to Clemson, SC. Affordable and a really nice area. I'll probably wind up in Western Piedmont, NC which offers nearly year round riding, hills, more of a rural setting, etc. Plus there are a few golf courses around as well.

Green Valley, Arizona has a great climate, a sizable cycling population, wide streets, and nearby mountains.

Where is Green Valley?

There are a number of places in Florida that are getting more bike friendly. You can retire really close to the Withlachoochee Trail which is 40+ miles long. Inverness is a nice town on the trail. Or you could get someplace near the West Orange Trail such as Winter Garden. I think they are putting in a trail system up in Deland also. They are also doing a trail someplace north of Daytona Beach.

If you want to go farther north, there are lots of lightly travelled roads near Live Oak, Cherry Lake and Suwanee FL. The drivers up there are very courteous.

Florida is rideable almost year round. In the summer, you need to get out in the morning before gets way too hot. In the "winter", the mornings can be a bit cold but usually the afternoons are just fine.

10 wheels is right. Check out the Corpus Christie, TX area. Nice wide open spaces and inexpensive. You can buy home on the water at North
Padre Island if you so desire or at Mustang Island at Port Aransas.
Anywhere south of Port Lavaca is an ideal place to build a home. Key
Allegro in Rockport is a very nice area with majority of homes have
access to water. I just wish I could be there now cycling all year round
like 10 wheels. Twice a year my wife and I visit in the spring and fall
where we own a condo at North Padre Island. Everything in Texas is big and not as congested as Florida. Good luck in your search.

What kind of riding would you prefer-mostly flats, mostly hills or a good combination. Do you prefer rural or urban living? Help us narrow the scope a bit. Do you plan to keep your Maine residence for summer visits?

My daughter lives in Tucson, Az and it is intriguing-summer riding best done very early in the day. I know some folks considering an area around Greenville to Clemson, SC. Affordable and a really nice area. I'll probably wind up in Western Piedmont, NC which offers nearly year round riding, hills, more of a rural setting, etc. Plus there are a few golf courses around as well.

Good questions.

We like small cities. I would like the 'combo 'special'. Around here you can take easy rides around the coast, or a pretty hilly ride just
a few miles inland with mountain rides an hour or so by car.

We hope to keep the house in maine for a few years. Eventually we'll have to sell, but I'd like to come back here
summers for a while.

The Villages, FL. "Epcot" for adults.

Golf cart paths everywhere, suitable for cycling. Something to do every minute.

Arizona is rated the third best state for bicycling, combined with their nice winter weather, it seems like a good choice.

We scouted out Florida some last month. We are going to keep looking. Deland, FL is a nice "little" town, so if they get a trail going, that would be interesting. There is a college in Deland (Stetson), and you are relatively close to Daytona, but far enough to not have the negatives of Daytona.

Right now we split time between the Greenville, SC area and the mountains of NC. While there are a lot of bicycles in Greenville, the roads are not bike friendly at all. The mountains of NC are great, but the winter weather is not.

We will probably scout out Arizona next.

Half the homes in my community, are lived in from people that left Florida. Some had to take half the asking price to get out of there. It took some of the people over 3 years to sell. I retired near Pensacola, 1 year was enough for me. You could certainly get a good deal there. Anyhow good luck.

Lots of places are probably good. Florida can be very good. We're in kind of the north end of South Florida-90% of my riding is along the Atlantic Ocean on a place called Jupiter Island. It is a very, very, very wealthy enclave; think Tiger Woods, Greg Norman, Celine, etc. I live 3.5 miles from the bridge to JI. Rich people apparently don't like Florida summers and even in the winter, when they are here, they aren't on the roads in the early morning when most of us ride. It is very safe. I say that as I'm typing from my hospital room, the result of complications from surgery from a bike crash, but it was a slippery surface not a car. Anyway, there are only a few days a year you can't ride here.

North Cental Florida is a great place to ride. West and north of Gainesville, where the University of Florida is located, is great. There are a lot of very lightly traveled rural roads and a lot of relatively affordable little cities.

We're close to retirement. Until my bike accident, I was hoping to spend my retirement winters riding in Florida and my summers riding in Western North Carolina. My surgery was such that I had to be totally non weight bearing on that leg for at least 8 weeks; I'm hoping to be able to start weight bearing therapy next week. I had a dvt complication, and I'm not sure how that will affect my little plans. I'm hoping I will be physically and then mentally able to ride again, and while I know the accident was a freak, it will be tough to get over it.

All these places people suggest sound great. For us, it is largely where we are comfortable, where the kids are and where our friends are. But we're not going anywhere where the weather is nasty like it is in the NE in the winter.

Good luck.

Have you considered Australia or New Zealand?

Very outdoor-ish and family orientated, respectful of the older generation, great health-care and you can get a retirement visa (in Oz) once you're 55 (well Brits can... not sure about US citizens)... oh and the roads are empty.

You'd have plenty of people flying out to visit!

Boulder Colorado Baby! It's a cyclist and health nut heaven.

Of course it also helps to be a millionaire...

Sarge :ride:

Arizona is where I'm going. Even the summer heat is better than snow or freezing temps. I can ride in 110° if I take the right precautions...just not as far.

Have you considered Australia or New Zealand?

Very outdoor-ish and family orientated, respectful of the older generation, great health-care and you can get a retirement visa (in Oz) once you're 55 (well Brits can... not sure about US citizens)... oh and the roads are empty.

You'd have plenty of people flying out to visit!

I haven't even been to California yet. I'll look into it, love the idea but
we couldn't visit relatives.

My wife won't leave the kids especially when there are grandkids and they are both staying in SW Ontario. We will live here but winter in Palm Desert.

What are some good places to retire?

Wherever you flatted. :innocent:

We will live here but winter in Palm Desert.

Excellent choice. Were it not for the horrible mess the politicians have put this state in I would stay...but I can't deal with the politics here any longer than I have to.

Have often wondered where I would live when I retire. Thanks to various things it has to be here. Only consolation is that I will be retired- I will be able to jump on my bike and 3 weeks later be in the South of France after stopping off at a few Vineyards and distilleries on the way.

.......want to be near the ocean and live inexpensively, ..........

Here's the problem, IMHO.

We were vacationing in Panama City Beach last week. I saw a cyclist from Iowa riding thru Rosemary Beach and Seaside. He said he was on his way home and would have ~65 miles logged by the time he got home. He said there is a bike path/lane/trail that runs most of the way between Destin and Panama City Beach.
If we could afford the area (Rosemary Beach (http://rosemarybeach.com/) or Seaside (http://www.seasidefl.com/) or Wild Heron (http://www.joe.com/Wild-Heron-community)) we'd be there next week. :)

Panama Beach area is relatively cheap in the winter if you rent. Rates go up a lot from Spring Break on through the summer. Not much of a town IMHO. More like a collection of condos and putt putt golf.

+10 Live near the ocean and inexpensive = oxymoron in the USA.

Think rent not buy. Florida real estate is a mess right now, and check out real estate taxes and property insurance (including hurricane and flood). That may talk you out of ownership. My area of North Carolina is full of half backs, people that moved to Florida from the north east, hated it, and moved half way back.

Don't condemn Florida, it takes a while but after you know the state you will find it is pretty good for biking. Like 67walkon said the area near Gainesville is filled with great roads and trails and is mostly empty. I can ride all morning in some areas and see only a handful of cars and housing is (now) very cheap. If you stay in North Florida you can ride all winter in comfort and when spring arrives it is 6 hours to the mountains of North Carolina, the bicyling theme park!

Mike

It's not on the ocean but I was stationed in San Antonio for 5 years and lots of retirees live there. It's only a couple of hours from the beaches of Corpus Christi and a few more down to South Padre Island.

I thought I was going to post a link to the web page, but just the text cropped up

But anyway, I'm negotiating to buy this.

Very pretty. Mountain biking club in the village, keen road bikers alongside the coast roads. Mountain hiking trails all over. Sailing club right there.

Spent a week back there last August, which got me back into trail running (which for a long time was by far my main sport, much more than cycling).

5 minutes cycling, 10 minutes running down to beach tavernas with fish caught to order.

3 hours to London, 4 hours to Bahrain, in the EEC so (as I still pay my national insurance) free healthcare
The following is the realator's text

THE PELOPONESE; THE MANI; BEAUTIFULLY RENOVATED DETACHED HOUSE; PANORAMIC SEA VIEWS; 145,000 Euro: (REF 1039907)

Price: € 145,000
Agent: Ian Pollard
View All My Listings
Town: Mani
Region: Peloponnese [Region Info]
Country: Greece

Type: Villa
Condition: New

Bedrooms: 2
Bathrooms: 1
Internal size (sq.m): 98
Land (sq.m): 80

Features Open Fireplaces/s
Garden
Terrace
Pool
Air Con.
Property Views Beachfront
Ocean View
Lake/River View
Mountain View
Local Amenities Airport
Ski
Golf Course
Shops, Bars, Restaurants

This traditional detached village house lying in an area of outstanding natural beauty and with stunning views across the Gulf of Messinia and the Taygetos mountains, has been lovingly and carefully restored and renovated by the present owner. High standards of workmanship and attention to detail have created a warm and comfortable modern home which at the same time retains many original and traditional features.

The house, which is on a plot of 80 sq.m. provides 98 sq.m. of accommodation , on 2 floors , as follows;

GROUND FLOOR

Bathroom - with Bath and shower - fitted wooden cupboards and shelves. Plumbing and all services for washing machine - marble tops- lighting - and fused oulet for electric towel rail/ heater.

Large Entrance Hall - which is large enough to be used as an additional seating area or as a guest room with bed.

Double Bedroom - This is a large room with fitted, craftsman built wooden wardrobes and cupboards

Courtyard - covered shady courtyard area- fully tiled

1st FLOOR:

Dining / Living Room with open plan Kitchen
The newly fitted kitchen provides a tastefully selected range of units, cupboards and work surfaces and includes a cooker, extractor fan and spaces for a dish washer and a fridge freezer. A traditional beamed ceiling and the original open fireplace.

Double Bedroom / Lounge; Dependant upon the needs of an owner, a further room could be used either as a second double bedroom or as a separate lounge. The room features a traditional wood burning stove and a beamed ceiling.

Both these rooms open onto a fully tiled and walled balcony, large enough to provide an “outside room” and eating area, useable throughout much of the year. From the balcony there are panoramic, stunning views across the Messinian Gulf

The following works were included in the complete renovation of the house;

New roof tiles, insulation and bamboo lining.
New traditional- style wooden doors, windows and shutters
New plumbing and electrics throughout
Solar/ electric hot water
Wood burning stove
Internal wooden staircase and fully insulated new wooden floor
Tiling on both walls and floors

External
Original stone stairs from upper to lower levels.Typical of Greek village architecture.

Access to the house is by a surfaced road, which terminates 5m short of the property. Parking arrangements can be agreed with the present owner.

Next to the house there is a further plot of land with a beautiful, old house on it .This is in need of renovation. It could be purchased separately by negotiation, from the present owner and used to provide guest accommodation, garden, courtyard or storeage.

LOCATION
Situated at the begining of the Mani peninsular, the unspoilt village of Doloi is typical of the traditional villages of this part of Greece. At the same time it is only a 20min drive from Kalamata where there is an airport with many European destinations and all the facilities of a modern coastal city . Only a short drive to the south are the beautiful villages of Stoupa and Ancient Kardimili, which have helped to make the Mani so attractive.

6km away there is a lovely fishing village with a quiet beach and traditional tavernas serving delicious freshly caught fish. Traditional village tavernas, Kafeneon, small shops, a post office and pharmacy can all be found in neighbouring villages within a 5km radius.

Because of the area’s natural beauty, small attractive villages, traditional styles of architecture, magnificent coastline and a host of other reasons, there is strong demand for property in the Mani. The Mani is in an area which also enjoys demand from those who pursue alternative or activity holiday

I'm excited!

I love Corpus Christie, but the wind will not make cycling pleasant.

In case I was tempted to recommend north Texas, the freezing fog I rode to work in this morning has me thinking that you might need to be just a bit further south.

If you like Florida you should try it. SW Florida in the Ft Myers Cape Coral area was whacked hard by the housing collapse. Lots of relatively cheap rentals and sales near the ocean. Well, the Gulf of mexico. Great biking area offering something for everybody.

I live in NJ, a few miles outside of Philly. To an outsider this looks like the world's worst biking venue. Bad scenery, heavy traffic etc.. But it's not. In fact, in may be one of the world's best. I can ride all the way to the beach from my front door. Thats over fifty miles! Most of it on low traffic roads that wind through a natural reserve. I can ride 75 miles to Cape May, hop the ferry, and then ride anywhere i want on the Delmarva peninsula. As well, some of the best mountain biking on the east coast is a 20 minute drive from my house. 3 hours south is the C&O trail. The point being, don't let a preconceived idea knock a potential location off the list. Try it out. Live there for six months. get to know it. You're going to be retired for a long time.

When my wife retires we plan to spend Jan/Feb somewhere warm (we live in MN) and then spend another 2 - 3 months in Europe. Maui is our current winter plan w/ Naples as backup. Maui is a great place to ride and has a number of good route/hill options but is also a pretty expensive place to live. Also has the advantage of a number of good cafes. Naples (and elsewhere in Florida we've looked) is pretty scary to me on a bike. Not just grannies, but impatient tourists and more than anything a ton of people who are simply immature and somehow are able to inflate their tiny ego by harassing cyclists. I also get annoyed with how loud everyone in Florida talks in restaurants and cafes with only a very few exceptions (and I will not divulge their locations :-).

What can I say about Europe. Motorists are overall very respectful of cyclists (because most are themselves). Riding options are, no matter where you are, abundant and relatively safe as are great little cafes. We currently spend 2 weeks there each spring and 2 each fall and love every second of it. There are 4 drawbacks. First is that cost of living is fairly high. Second is frustration of dealing with EU style gov't bureaucracy, third is healthcare (some is really good but most is mediocre and increasingly limited to anyone over 55 - not the place to have a stroke or other emergency if you're older), and fourth is Europeans. Europeans are really great people but most (more in the north, fewer in the south) tend to keep the same close friends for life and breaking in to their circle of friends can be difficult and takes time. Many Americans are offended by Europeans more direct manner of saying exactly what they're thinking and many Americans also find it difficult to 'fit in' to the nuances of the culture such as talking quietly in public places (there are exceptions like some Italian), waiters who won't come to your table unless summoned, fairly strict adherence to rules, ...

I'm in south Florida and don't find it to be a bad as some others do. The weather is usually good and, one you get to know your neighborhood, you can find places to ride pretty safely. As someone else said, near the beach and inexpensive isn't possible in the US. I used to live in a nice little town in southern Mexico on the beach. Most of those places qualify pricewise but roads aren't usually good for cycling.

Mexipat, how close are you to the ocean? Does the salt air cause any problems for your bikes?

If the SW had a reliable source of water, I'd say New Mexico. Not as hot in the summer as AZ, winters aren't too bad, Alburqurque is not too bad, lot's of good road riding, mt. biking in the foothills and east of town, temp's in the 50's in the winter, mid 90's typically in summer. Just maybe some serious water issues if the drought continues.

Or. Italy. Not the cheapest, maybe a bit pricier then the US, but the food, the wine, the cycling...... easy access to the rest of Europe.

SB

Boulder City, NV is a great choice. The housing right now is very reasonable. Its the only city in NV with NO gambling. It snuggles up to Lake Mead, has excellent cycling of all kinds, good golf and is 30 minutes from Vegas. The weather is very nice 9 months out of the year. Summers get into the 100s daily, but no humidity. NV has NO PERSONAL INCOME TAX. That is why a lot of athletes home base here.

If you like a nice night life, music, snows gaming, biking, fishing, hiking check it out. I live in Henderson which is a suburb of Vegas. But Boulder City is a very nice option.

Las Vegas also hosts an International Air Port, you can fly the world from here.

I love reading this thread because I am starting to think of retirement as well... but I guess it goes without saying you all like the heat. Having spent considerable time in both AZ and TX I just can't handle that heat plus with Texas, it's humid! And with AZ it's not like CA where it's heat maybe 2 - 3 weeks, it's like 8 - 10 months hot! If I had to live in TX it would be around Fredericksberg or Austin. Countryside is nice, heat not so bad. Obviously I would stay in CA if I could, the weather here is lovely plus great places to ride but with the economy I won't have the $10,000,000 needed to live out a retirement in CA. #1 place for taxes and pretty much everything else that takes money. Right now I am looking at Oregon, N Nevada, S Utah maybe Idaho or TN, NC or SC. I haven't travel much through the midwest but I think the winters will turn me off.

My ideal place? Would be inexpensive, cool and dry, small town, lots of lovely countryside with miles and miles of trails to explore. I'm sure it exists...somewhere.

Whats wrong with Florida?Too many old people, that think they can still drive, regardless of being nearly blind.

What about Tallahassee, Florida? A friend is getting to that age and has this on the list of places to visit.

According to 'weather.com' it is relatively warm in the winter and cooler in the summer than Columbia, SC, where we both currently live.

Using Topo USA, it appears to have a few hills and the real estate doesn't look too bad in terms of price.

He is under the impression that there are no property taxes in Florida and that most tax income was derived from tourist taxes.

I'm 53 and retirement is in the back of my mind. I had given some thought to Florida, but the news I keep hearing is not good. What I have heard:

-Most of the state is simply not friendly toward cyclists. One cyclist has told me that he sees more cyclists on the roads around Boston in January, than around the Orlando area at any time of year.
The drivers, especially in the metro areas, have very short tempers, and are usually in "combat mode". They make Boston drivers look like Gandhi. Is that truth or hyperbole?

-Lots of old folks driving. (this has already been mentioned) A bicyclist is simply an alien concept to them.


-Drug Thugs. 'Nuff said.

Aside from this, I am told that there are some towns that are packed with people who fled Massachusetts. Any truth to that one?

Oddly enough, I'm looking at Portland, Maine, as a possible retirement place. I'd just switch to an indoor exercise bike in the winter.

What about Tallahassee, Florida? A friend is getting to that age and has this on the list of places to visit.

According to 'weather.com' it is relatively warm in the winter and cooler in the summer than Columbia, SC, where we both currently live.

Using Topo USA, it appears to have a few hills and the real estate doesn't look too bad in terms of price.

He is under the impression that there are no property taxes in Florida and that most tax income was derived from tourist taxes.

The is NO STATE INCOME TAX, yet anyway. The greedy SOBs in Tallahassee are always looking for OP$ to spend to stay in office. Property tax is a very local thing and can be very cheap in some areas. 6% state sales tax with some local add ons. Property values are pretty low now.

I'm 53 and retirement is in the back of my mind. I had given some thought to Florida, but the news I keep hearing is not good. What I have heard:

-Most of the state is simply not friendly toward cyclists. One cyclist has told me that he sees more cyclists on the roads around Boston in January, than around the Orlando area at any time of year.
The drivers, especially in the metro areas, have very short tempers, and are usually in "combat mode". They make Boston drivers look like Gandhi. Is that truth or hyperbole?

-Lots of old folks driving. (this has already been mentioned) A bicyclist is simply an alien concept to them.


-Drug Thugs. 'Nuff said.

Aside from this, I am told that there are some towns that are packed with people who fled Massachusetts. Any truth to that one?

Oddly enough, I'm looking at Portland, Maine, as a possible retirement place. I'd just switch to an indoor exercise bike in the winter.

Don't forget the hurricanes.

It's not on the ocean but I was stationed in San Antonio for 5 years and lots of retirees live there. It's only a couple of hours from the beaches of Corpus Christi and a few more down to South Padre Island.

Fellow Englishmen will know what I mean when I say those place names sound wonderful... all we have are Bognor Regis and Clacton!

...One cyclist has told me that he sees more cyclists on the roads around Boston in January, than around the Orlando area at any time of year.

I just spent a week in Orlando at a conference. I had a rental car and did a fair bit of driving everyday. The weather was perfect and many roads did have "bike lanes." Didn't see a single cyclist. Not one.



Oddly enough, I'm looking at Portland, Maine, as a possible retirement place. I'd just switch to an indoor exercise bike in the winter.

Me, too! I lived in Saco for a couple of years and can't wait to get back.

I lived in in West Palm Beach Florida in the mid 80's to early 90's when traffic wasn't as bad as they are right now. I wasn't into cycling at the time despite owning a mountain bike which rusted due to humidity. There should be nice biking west of WPB but you need to be back home before darkness set in. I really wish I could be in South Texas where riding is ideal all year round. Few more years when the wife retire, and we might move but until then, I'm trapped in the winter zone.

Don't forget the hurricanes.

and according to a report I read, the rapidly growing population of H.I.V. infected seniors. Thanks Viagra...

Oddly enough, I'm looking at Portland, Maine, as a possible retirement place. I'd just switch to an indoor exercise bike in the winter.

I live just outside Portland. Come, rent, spend a winter here. You will prob want a trainer.

Have to think it's hilarious when people say Arizona is hot in summer, as if the whole state is one big flat desert. Where I live right now we have 10 feet of snow at the nearby ski area, and about 4 inches in town, plus we hardly ever hit 90 degrees in summer. We are at 7,000 feet and surrounded by 10,000 foot mountains. And you can buy a small house here for $50,000, or a bigger one for less than $200K with an acre or so, in town. (There are resort areas nearby with expensive cabins. I'm talking about right here in town, the houses are very cheap right now.) There is nothing much to do here, though, except hike, bike, hunt, fish, cross country ski, backpack, rock climb, etc. No culture to speak of, although there is a small CC and a few clubs that do fun stuff. But if you don't care about culture, it's great! We sure could use some more cyclists around here!

Have to marvel that some people would choose to retire in a really big city such as San Antonio, or any other big city for that matter. Ugh. Well, if everyone does that there will be more uncrowded countryside for me.

One of the least-loved towns in Arizona, as far as my fellow Arizonans are concerned, is Yuma, down in the SW corner of the state. Everyone in the state loves to hate Yuma, although almost no one you talk to has ever done more than drive through it on their way to the beach. But it is has great weather in winter, is very popular with snowbirds from Canada and the Northern Tier, and can be very cheap if you know how to live cheap. Summers are brutal, though. Two really good bike clubs, (Foothills Bicycle Club and Yuma Bike Club) good bike shops, and a river runs through it. Yes, unlike Phoenix or Tucson, Yuma has a LOT of water around it. The river and several adjoining lakes are great for kayaking, canoeing, bass and catfish fishing, bird watching, etc. There is a good community college also. Base population is less than 100,000, but more than that in winter. And it's only about 3 hours from San Diego, which of course, is not affordable for the average jane or joe. I have spent two winters down there (since I live in the snowy part of AZ and like to snowbird) and right now, although I am going cross country skiing several times a week and we have the greatest snow in years, I am still missing winter in Yuma. We didn't go this year for various reasons. I read the bike club email every day, to see where they rode and I miss it...maybe we'll go next year.

My ideal place? Would be inexpensive, cool and dry, small town, lots of lovely countryside with miles and miles of trails to explore. I'm sure it exists...somewhere.

Check out some of the small towns in Oregon or Washington *east* of the Cascade Mountains (not nearly as wet as the west side of the mountains) -- Winthrop, Wa.; Leavenworth or Wenatchee, Wa.; Bend, Oregon.

I am curious what kind of health needs warm weather. Mental? Are you getting your doc to say you have to move from a freezing climate so you can deduct the cost of your retirement house as a medical expense?

Unfortunately an ideal climate is impossible to find.

Oh boy,
I need to find a warmer place to live for my health. We have been looking on the internet, talking to people. The result so far is confusion..

Part of the problem is that cycling is not an issue for most people. We like Florida, but much of it is not so good for cyclists (for example).

So many questions.

Where are you thinking of retiring?

Out of USA/Canada: Malaysia (they have a program for retirees called Malaysia My Second Home), or Mexico or even Belize (formerly British Honduras). Medical care that is affordable (especially Mexico and Malaysia). and with physicians trained to US/UK standards.. (Malaysia has quite a medical tourism business going). Just my opinion..