Classic & Vintage - I got it!! 1971 Schwinn Paramount (and questions:)

So, anyone who might have read this thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?617669-My-Holy-Grail-1971-Schwinn-Paramount&highlight=1971+paramount) may remember that I bid on and won my holy grail last week - a 1971 Schwinn Paramount...finished in chrome. The seller had a problem with his sale regarding a bidder that retracted his bid with only a little while to go before the auction ended, but, in the end, he followed through on our completed auction sale, and I picked her up a little while ago!

It was too dark to take some pictures of the bike when I got home, so I included a few from the seller...I'm really happy with the bike, and I'm sure I'm going to have a lot of questions for the Paramount experts as I move forward, so I hope you can all bear with me as I move forward..:).

Startiing out, is there a resource, or could someone tell me what a '71 P-10 Paramount would come orginally equipped, so that I can see what is and isn't orginial on the bike? Here it is as it sits:

Chromed steel Campagnolo Record headset
Campagnolo Record strada crankset with C bottom bracket bolts, as well as Campagnolo chrome dust caps.
172.5 length with 52 and 45 tooth Campagnolo chainrings and Campagnolo chainring bolts
Campagnolo Veloce cartridge bottom bracket
Campagnolo Record front and rear derailleurs with down tube shifters
Dia Compe NGC long reach caliper brakes with quick release and chrome drop bolts
Cinelli stem with Cinelli Giro Ditalia road bars
Dia Compe Gran Compe non aero brake levers with matching gum hoods
36 hole Campagnolo Record high flange hubs with chrome Campagnolo skewers laced to Mavic Championnat du Monde alloy sew up (tubular) rims.
Campagnolo C Record post
Campagnolo Super Record pedals (titanium spindles?)
Sakae SR chrome toe clips with white leather Mikashima straps
Cami 5 speed freewheel

Secondly....the bike has sew up rims (Mavic Championnat du Monde)...now, are these rims something that I should keep on the bike and ride with...if so, could someone recommend a good tire, as I've not used sew ups before....or...should I take these off and store them, and use a pair of clincher alloy rims? (I plan on riding this bike and it not be a garage queen.)

Thirdly, I think the San Marco Rolls saddle that's currently on the Paramount will look smashing on my Trek 600 (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2581/4161377145_bb68933ecb_b.jpg)...does anyone have a Brooks Pro they might want to part with?

More questions to come....thank you!

http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac25/bikeallday123/DSCN6291.jpg
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac25/bikeallday123/DSCN6292.jpg
http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac25/bikeallday123/DSCN6302.jpg

The sidepull brakes are not original, and it would have come with a Nuovo Record post, not the C-Record it has now (but it looks great with the taper post, regardless).

Interesting that the front drop bolt - thankfully - is full-length nutted. Lots of Drews used to drill these out to fit a rear Campy drop-bolt to the front with an allen nut :eek:

-Kurt

I don't know what the original equpment would be, but I don't think you will have to hunt down too much. The seatpost looks too modern? Brooks saddle of course. That's about it. Plus what Kurt said!

Campagnolo Veloce cartridge bottom bracket

Dia Compe NGC long reach caliper brakes with quick release and chrome drop bolts
Cinelli stem with Cinelli Giro Ditalia road bars
Dia Compe Gran Compe non aero brake levers with matching gum hoods
36 hole Campagnolo Record high flange hubs with chrome Campagnolo skewers laced to Mavic Championnat du Monde alloy sew up (tubular) rims.
Campagnolo C Record post
Campagnolo Super Record pedals (titanium spindles?)
Sakae SR chrome toe clips with white leather Mikashima straps
Cami 5 speed freewheel


I'd venture that all of the above is not original except the Campy high flange hubs and skewers. Originally it looked as if it would have been specked with 27" wheels.

Glad you were able to make the deal come together and work for you! Welcome to the two Paramount club!

Check this link: http://www.velobration.com/sldatabook/detail7074.html#1971

Congratulations!

I don't believe the P10 was offered in 1971; the P10-9 was introduced in 1973 as a ten speed (double chainring) version of the P15-9 fifteen speed (triple chainring) touring Paramount.

Your new bike is most likely a P13-9 Professional Road Racing Paramount. Here are the P13-9/P15-9 pages from the 1971 Paramount catalog with lots of good info.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/Schwinn%20Publ%20Pages/0471xlite02s.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/Schwinn%20Publ%20Pages/0571xlite03s.jpg

When I got my 1972 P15-9 several years ago, it came with tubular rims/ tires and I relaced the high flange Campy hubs to Mavic Open Pro 700c clincher rims for convenience.

If the bars are old-logo, they're original. Hubs might be original, but you did catch what I overlooked - 700C tubulars.

I doubt they're SR pedals. Probably just run-of-the-mill Superlegerri.

-Kurt

Here is a great source for Schwinn info

http://velobration.com/sldatabook/

P.S.: What's the SN? I'd like to enter your machine into the Paramount Registry.

-Kurt

P.S.: What's the SN? I'd like to enter your machine into the Paramount Registry.

-Kurt

Hi Kurt...thanks for the info...you bet - H7184

Stan...thanks for the info...quick question regarding the model...I thought I read before that one of the distingushing features between a P13 and P10/P15 was the brake cable braze ons on the top tube....if a Paramount had them, it was a P10/15...if not, it was a P13...since my bike has them,
would it be a P15 that's had the crank changed, since the P10 hadn't been introduced yet...or am I just wrong about all this and it is indeed a P13....thanks!

Hi Kurt...thanks for the info...you bet - H7184

Stan...thanks for the info...quick question regarding the model...I thought I read before that one of the distingushing features between a P13 and P10/P15 was the brake cable braze ons on the top tube....if a Paramount had them, it was a P10/15...if not, it was a P13...since my bike has them,
would it be a P15 that's had the crank changed, since the P10 hadn't been introduced yet...or am I just wrong about all this and it is indeed a P13....thanks!

Thanks! I'd like to get your full name for the registry as well - send me a PM.

Pre-1971 P13's are essentially identical to P15 framesets (and P10's, which essentially became the "old" P13's new model designation). Hence, your example is a P13 - as is this '70:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/70paramount_11108_2.jpg

-Kurt

Ahhh Paramounts....:love:

Welcome to the chrome 71 Paramount club. Mine has practically nothing orginal on it but if you are riding them it really doesn't matter.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2655/3906171478_1b3fccecfb_b.jpg

Hi Kurt...thanks for the info...you bet - H7184

Stan...thanks for the info...quick question regarding the model...I thought I read before that one of the distingushing features between a P13 and P10/P15 was the brake cable braze ons on the top tube....if a Paramount had them, it was a P10/15...if not, it was a P13...since my bike has them,
would it be a P15 that's had the crank changed, since the P10 hadn't been introduced yet...or am I just wrong about all this and it is indeed a P13....thanks!
Point taken; my 1971 P13-9 has the three Campy brake cable clamps on the top tube, not the braze-ons that my '72 P15-9 has.

I'm guessing your bike was originally a P15-9 that someone changed the crank from a triple to a double on, or possibly they ordered a P15-9 from the factory with a double.

I dunno...

The '71 P13-9

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/1971%20P13-9/CIMG2248sm.jpg

The '72 P15-9

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/1972%20Chrome%20P15-9/CIMG3275sm.jpg

Thanks to all for the info thus far…to be honest, it doesn’t matter to me if the bike is a P-13 or 15…I was just curious…I also picked up a Brooks Pro last night…just happened to check the auction site and one was ending in three minutes…looks to be in pretty good shape…it’s a Brooks Pro Select, which I know isn’t period correct for the Paramount, but…the price was right and it’s still a Pro…J
Another question I had is regarding period correct Paramount decals…mine are all gone and I’d like to replace them…could anyone recommend a vendor for these? I see a lot of chrome Paramounts with red decals…I think I’d like black ones for mine…I need to think about it some more…
Again..thanks for the help….!

That's an AWESOME bike and I'm glad you got it!!! What a beauty...I wish it had been my size!

Personally...I'd put the tubulars in the closet and put on an appropriate set of clinchers. I've never ridden tubulars, so my opinion is limited in quality, but I get around one flat every 3 months riding in Philly...and when you consider the price of tubular tires, that's a LOT of money. I know you can sew them up yourself, but you're talking more work than my lazy behind wants to do. Also...what if you're doing a long ride and get multiple flats? I remember one ride I did...I had three flats in one day (and they were all distinct and in different places from different punctures).

Since the rims aren't original anyway, I'd get a pair of open pro clinchers for the hubs or buy vintage wheels. I have an awesome set of 27 inch Super Champion clinchers I got with a "wtb" craigslist add.

Point taken; my 1971 P13-9 has the three Campy brake cable clamps on the top tube, not the braze-ons that my '72 P15-9 has.

I'll bet you anything that your '71 was built to the new '72 specs. Can you post the full side photo of that yellow P-mount again?

-Kurt

you can get period correct decals from waterford cycles, also they pop up on ebay from various sources.

I'll bet you anything that your '71 was built to the new '72 specs. Can you post the full side photo of that yellow P-mount again?

-Kurt

Here it is, Kurt. Most of the components were changed from original to a hodge-podge by Oscar Juner (long time owner of American Cyclery) long before I bought it. Serial number is H7106.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/1971%20P13-9/CIMG1701small.jpg

Here is my 71 P 13-9 (L7171) as it was when I bought it:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f106/RabidKoala/fdd89953.jpg

This is how it appears today. I am not using the tubular rims, substituting a wheel set with 27" Module E rims:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f106/RabidKoala/73c5af0f.jpg

Here it is, Kurt. Most of the components were changed from original to a hodge-podge by Oscar Juner (long time owner of American Cyclery) long before I bought it. Serial number is H7106.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/1971%20P13-9/CIMG1701small.jpg

Interesting...the yellow Paramount was produced in the same month as mine...76 frames produced in between ours...:)

Here it is, Kurt. Most of the components were changed from original to a hodge-podge by Oscar Juner (long time owner of American Cyclery) long before I bought it. Serial number is H7106.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/1971%20P13-9/CIMG1701small.jpg

Stan, the fork rake, though not identical to that of the '72 P13-9's, is noticeably less then the earlier P13's - though it appears identical to Rabid's '71. Regardless, the lack of eyelets on H7106 ID's it as one of the "new" P13s.

P.S.: I note it's not in the registry!

-Kurt

P.S.: I note it's not in the registry!

-Kurt
Heh.. My niece borrowed it a couple of years ago for a visiting friend of hers to ride, and she still has it. It's way too small for me, so I don't really miss it.

WOW...I'm beginning to understand the Paramount cult...those are GORGEOUS.

Heh.. My niece borrowed it a couple of years ago for a visiting friend of hers to ride, and she still has it. It's way too small for me, so I don't really miss it.

Still deserves to be up there in the registry - what would happen if H7105 or H7107 were to show up? No celebration :(

-Kurt

Still deserves to be up there in the registry - what would happen if H7105 or H7107 were to show up? No celebration :(

-Kurt

OK. I feel like I'm hijacking the thread, but here are the particulars...

Model Year: 1971
Serial Number: H7106
Model: P13-9
Frame size: 21" ST (C-T)
Color/finish: Kool Lemon with red lug outlining and DT decals
Components: Campagnolo 53/42 crank, Centaur RD, Dura-Ace FD, Huret DT shifters, Mafac brakes
Owner: Stan Cooper
Picture: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/1971%20P13-9/CIMG1701small.jpg
Additional notes: Equipped with tubular rims and tires

Congratulations on your new acquisition.

The wheels seem very important to me. Whether they are original or not is not very important, in my mind. What you do have there is a GREAT set of classic & vintage wheels which would be difficult (almost impossible) to replace if the rims were ever damaged. The hubs and spokes are easy to find. The rims are not.

If I were you, I would get a set of decent wheels with clincher rims and ride on those. As you gain more experience with the bike you can consider buying tubular tires and runnning the original wheels (perhaps on special occaisions/events).

P.S. - I cannot see any of your pictures while here at work but will check back later tonight when I'm home.

P.P.S. - That bottom bracket set is not original either. It would have had a Nuovo Record bottom bracket.

Thanks, Mike…yes…I was leaning toward that direction in regards to the rims…I’ve not had a bike with sew ups before, and, unless there is a hugely compelling reason to use them, I was planning on getting a set of clinchers…

Which leads me to my next question…can anyone recommend a decent clincher rim…I’m looking for something reasonably priced, as I do plan on riding the bike and don’t want to worry about every bump or scratch they may get…I’m open to 27 inch (as the bike was originally equipped) or 700c…is there an older rim set I should target on CL or ebay? Something new? Any thoughts would be appreciated….!

VeloOrange makes a great-looking C&V-style clincher rim. These would build up into an age-appropriate looking wheel set in 700C. Campy hubs are easy to come by, as a re DT spokes.

You could also just buy a replacement set of wheels - 27" or 700C. I think 27" is correct but may not be practical. Consider the brake reach in making your choice. The Weinmann center-pull brakes, original to the bike, should work for either but you do not have those brakes. Perhaps, you should get a pair.

For 700c (622) rims, I'm partial to Mavic Open Pros. I have several sets with thousands of miles on them and zero problems, although I have heard others complain about them. With the number of these rims in service there are bound to be some users with bad experiences.

If you decide to go with 27" (630) rims, Pastor Bob has recommended Sun CR-18 or Sun M-13II (http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/rims/630.html).

Open Pros don't have the C&V look to them, the VO rims do. I recently bought some rims and almost bought the Sun CR-18 but I actually bought the VO rims, instead. I can say from first hand experience, they are nice rims.

(I'm not meaning to argue with you, or dis your opinion in any way, I'm just pointing out the aesthetic difference between them. In this day of internet sales, sometimes people buy things without ever seeing them, first hand, in 3D. Then, sometimes, when the package arrives, they are disappointed.

OK. I feel like I'm hijacking the thread, but here are the particulars...

Got it - it's up.

-Kurt

Got it - it's up.

-Kurt

Thanks, Kurt!

Thank you Stan and Mike for the info on the clincher rims....after looking at some rims online...I was thinking another avenue may be to see if I can find a "donor bike" on my local CL that has 27 inch alloy clincher rims...or is that oversimplying things?

Thank you Stan and Mike for the info on the clincher rims....after looking at some rims online...I was thinking another avenue may be to see if I can find a "donor bike" on my local CL that has 27 inch alloy clincher rims...or is that oversimplying things?
That could be risky because used rims may have hidden cracks around the spoke eyelets. The Sun rims are cheap enough that buying them new is cheap insurance. Just my $.02.

That could be risky because used rims may have hidden cracks around the spoke eyelets. The Sun rims are cheap enough that buying them new is cheap insurance. Just my $.02.

And they make a nice set of wheels.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/Super%20Sports/Sporty%20Aug%202008/SachsHuretRD.jpg