Touring - Leave No Trace. Really?

When nature calls and there are no formal facilities within range, what to do? I mean, most municipalities require owners to pack out dog poop. In sheltered areas along highways, the issue is the same. How often have we pulled over at a spot that affords some privacy and been confronted by the leavings of others' - including paper?

What about when stealth camping? Arrive late and leave early. Leave no trace. Really?

So I have posted this poll to try to understand to what extent cycle tourists will continue / alter their behavior to save the planet. The choices range from those that can be selected only by the most seriously committed to those that will be picked by the most self centered.

While it may not be the "solid" waste you are asking about, I found on last year's ride along the TransAm route in Oregon that I saw discarded banana peals every day laying in the road's shoulder. They stopped as soon as I turned off that route. I had no doubt that these peals were from bike tourists and it really disappointed me.

Bananas grow in the tropics. They are not designed to degrade on the highway in Oregon. They simply dry up, turn black, and sit there like a huge, dead spider. I suspect that these same bike riders would be appalled to see someone in a car throw something out the window as they drove by. I couldn't help wondering if these banana peels were left by "leave no trace" stealth campers!

As for this poll, I've never stealth camped and don't believe I've had to deal with such waste outside "authorized" facilities.

Ray

I'll go #1 while stealth camping (provided I'm away from a water source), but I almost always hold off on #2 until I pass a toilet of some kind. I've only had to did a cat hole once in the couple months I've been out touring. Not from being eco-conscious, but just as a personal preference.

As to your poll, I've read that buried waste biodegrades rapidly, so a month down the road, there isn't a real difference in the ecological impact between the first 4 choices.

I've never come across someone's "leavings" but that would certainly tick me off!

So I have posted this poll to try to understand to what extent cycle tourists will continue / alter their behavior to save the planet. The choices range from those that can be selected only by the most seriously committed to those that will be picked by the most self centered.

What? Whether you cover your crap or not is not going to make an ounce of difference. They make you pick up dog doo, not to "save the planet," but so no one steps in it. What do the animals do with their "do?" If I have to "branch out" I do what the animals do—go where the humans don't. I sure as heck am not packing it up in a biodegradable container to add to a landfill. I do cover though. Sometimes.

"self centered?" Fer cry'in out loud.:twitchy:

It seems to me that an issue like this always depends upon the situation. To put it simply, I try to use as much discretion as the situation allows. It's just a matter of simple courtesy. If I think someone might step into it, I'll bury it or at least cover it up. If I think that it might be years before anyone goes where I went, I might not worry about it. I just don't believe there's any hard and fast rule, just try to be as courteous and respectful of property as you can. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and all that.
P.S.: I throw my bananna peels off the side of the road.

Pee and poop are part of natural ecosystem, they don't harm the environment. This is strictly done for neatness and courtesy for the next person. Now, non-human waste: packaging, etc., that's a whole different story. When hiking I always get away from the trail and dig a hole.

Adam

leave no paper or plastic garbage. banana peels, apple cores, etc will biodegrade in all climates. dont believe me? set up a compost pile in your backyard... often times, they will be eaten by animals before they can biodegrade anyway.

banana peels, apple cores, etc will biodegrade in all climates. dont believe me? set up a compost pile in your backyard... often times, they will be eaten by animals before they can biodegrade anyway.

Do you have any references to back up this statement? Here is one that directly contradicts it: http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=3319

A banana peel takes two years to biodegrade! That's according to keepbritaintidy.org.

Trash is trash, even if you "believe" it is "biodegradable."

Ray

Ray

Pee and poop are part of natural ecosystem, they don't harm the environment. This is strictly done for neatness and courtesy for the next person. Now, non-human waste: packaging, etc., that's a whole different story. When hiking I always get away from the trail and dig a hole.

Adam

Digging a cat hole helps prevent feces from being flushed into a water system and contaminating it with various pathogens. Depending on where you are it can be pretty important, that said it really depends where you are riding/doing your business.

All my tours have had be in close enough contact to civilization that I can hold it for a proper facility. I do a lot of backcountry canoeing and hiking and if there isn't a drop toilet I make sure I am at least 50 meters away from the water system and I dig a cat hole and use biodegradable TP or some friendly foliage.

For biking all my garbage stays with me until it can be disposed of correctly, mainly not the side of the road.

While hiking in New Zealand I found that some secluded hikes you pack everything out, including your #2. There were lots of really interesting ways to deal with it, biodegradable boxes and bucket kind of dealies. If you really want to leave no trace, leave no trace.

Hmmmm millions and millions of animals poop on the ground every day..... what makes my poop any different?

And how is a banana peel harming the enviroment? Is an animal going to eat it and die? LEAVES cantake over a year to decompose (http://www.ipcc.ie/leafmould.html ). I'd imaging that in a forest ecosystem, all the mulch, leaves, carcasses, fallen trees, and dead plants takes many many years to decompose into useable soil.

When nature calls and there are no formal facilities within range, what to do? I mean, most municipalities require owners to pack out dog poop. In sheltered areas along highways, the issue is the same. How often have we pulled over at a spot that affords some privacy and been confronted by the leavings of others' - including paper?

What about when stealth camping? Arrive late and leave early. Leave no trace. Really?

So I have posted this poll to try to understand to what extent cycle tourists will continue / alter their behavior to save the planet. The choices range from those that can be selected only by the most seriously committed to those that will be picked by the most self centered.

i am guessing that you haven't done a lot of extended backpacking because of the options you gave us. a really common thing that most people i know do is use some of that dry spongy moss stuff that peels off the tree easily as a means of wiping. no paper necessary.

Do you have any references to back up this statement? Here is one that directly contradicts it: http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=3319

A banana peel takes two years to biodegrade! That's according to keepbritaintidy.org.

Trash is trash, even if you "believe" it is "biodegradable."

Ray

Ray

also, two years is not a big deal. get over yourself, ray ray.

Hmmmm millions and millions of animals poop on the ground every day..... what makes my poop any different?

It isn't. If your #2 is running into untreated water systems it causes issues. Just like when there are overpopulations of certain animals. A number of freshwater beaches here in Ontario are closed after heavy rainstorms because of large populations of migratory birds that occasionally stay in the areas (and have to because of suburban sprawl). When there is rain all of their feces gets flushed into the water and E Coli and other coliforms become exposed and can thrive. We have systems in place in the developed world to deal with our excrement, and if you are away from a toilet it would be beneficial to the ecosystems there to limit your impacts. And burying your #2 helps reduce that risk (or disposing of it somewhere safe) of pathogen exposure.

I don't understand why everyone doesn't carry garbage/peels out with them. You are on a bike, you probably have a ton of extra weight from gadgets and toys for yourself, I'm sure a banana peel is going to break your back, I know it hasn't hurt me.

It depends on where I'm at, in more sensitive areas, I bag it

also, two years is not a big deal. get over yourself, ray ray.

So, in your world, if everyone just threw their fruit peels, vegetable trimmings, and other such "biodegradable" trash on the side of the road, everything would be just fine. Does this "not a big deal" ethic extend to thing like newspapers, paper bags, and other items or just the kinds of things you want to throw away and deem "not a big deal?"

Sounds like a nice place.

Ray Ray

So, in your world, if everyone just threw their fruit peels, vegetable trimmings, and other such "biodegradable" trash on the side of the road, everything would be just fine. Does this "not a big deal" ethic extend to thing like newspapers, paper bags, and other items or just the kinds of things you want to throw away and deem "not a big deal?"

Sounds like a nice place.

Ray Ray

don't put words in my mouth. i didn't say anything about what my world would be like. you couldn't touch my "green-ness" with a 10 foot clown pole.

Funny how every winter about this time there seems to be a lot of hostility on the forums. Can anyone say cabin fever?

don't put words in my mouth. i didn't say anything about what my world would be like. you couldn't touch my "green-ness" with a 10 foot clown pole.

So, in your own words, what do you and don't you throw off your bike when you are touring?

Ray Ray

Cyclesafe ... you sound like a city boy. Have you ever been on a farm?

I live on 1200 acres of orchard and pasture. The pasture is populated mainly by cows. Cows .... plop. Everywhere. They don't bury it, treat it, carry it out etc. It just sits there in the field and on the track we call a road to get in and out of here. There are also wombats, kangaroos, wallabies, foxes, and possums in this area ... and birds of all sorts. And they all leave their droppings all over the place out here. And nature deals with it all.

Now, as a human, our droppings can have different sorts of bacteria etc. in them which we really don't want in our water system. So if we're out in the middle of nowhere, it is a good idea to look around to see where a water system (i.e. stream) might be located, and to choose a spot some distance away from that water system. And rather than just leaving our droppings sitting on top of the ground where they could wash into the water system when it rains, it is a good idea to dig a hole and bury them so that nature can deal with them.

As for our liquid "deposits", it may come as a surprise to some, but urine is sterile (unless you've got some sort of disease) ... it is very clean, so clean we could drink it if we were in an emergency situation (i.e. miners trapped in a mine with no water). Also, the urine of a human is much the same as that of a cow, wombat, kangaroo, wallaby, fox, possum, etc., etc. who are urinating on a regular basis all over the pasture I live on. Animals of all sorts urinate all over the world. Urine is about 95% water and 5% solids including things like urea, creatinin, ammonia, sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, chlorides, sulfates, phosphates. It begins to decompose in about 30 minutes, and there are a number of findings that indicate that human urine can be used as a fertilizer for plants. So I have no problem at all with the idea of squatting in a convenient ditch to do my liquid business ... without burying it, and of course, without paper.


But the part I'm most curious about is what you think a "proper facility" might be.


As for litter ....... I carry it with me until I find an official rubbish container. I hate seeing rubbish in the ditches.

I'm also getting more particular about carrying, rather than tossing, fruit and vegetable matter ... NOT because of the 'biodegradable or not' debate (fruit and vegetable matter is biodegradable (even banana peels), and if I tossed it, it would be no different than the composting we're thinking of setting up here). But living in Australia, where they like to keep a control on the types of plants and animals that grow here, and especially living on an orchard, has made me aware that the people who produce our food (i.e. orchard growers) don't necessarily appreciate having other fruit and vegetable matter introduced into the area.

When it comes to grapes for wine, for example, there are large signs up everywhere saying that it is an offense to bring grape and grape material into certain areas near where I live. I'm not sure if that would necessarily apply to table grapes, but I'm not about to stop and eat a bunch of table grapes in those areas, and spit the pits out and drop the stems.

It's a good idea to be aware of what's around us when we ride and when we tour.


And as for saving the planet ... I don't tour to save the planet. :lol:

Do you have any references to back up this statement? Here is one that directly contradicts it: http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=3319

A banana peel takes two years to biodegrade! That's according to keepbritaintidy.org.

Trash is trash, even if you "believe" it is "biodegradable."

Ray

Ray

I can refer to my compost pile, where i dispose of many non-meat food related goods - from seeds to cores to peels to egg shells... the stuff breaks down. never came across any leftover banana peels when spreading compost into my garden. and not for a lack of bananas, we nearly always have them in the house.

I don't understand why everyone doesn't carry garbage/peels out with them. You are on a bike, you probably have a ton of extra weight from gadgets and toys for yourself, I'm sure a banana peel is going to break your back, I know it hasn't hurt me.

Banana peels are mushy. If you shove it into a pocket you will get banana mush all over that pocket (also a great way to attract bears). If you put the banana peel into a plastic bag, it means bringing an extra bag and throwing away extra garbage. That banana peel thrown in the garbage then has to be trucked to a landfill. If you throw it into the bushes, it turns back into dirt. What I don't like are cyclists that drop banana peels Mario Kart style in the middle of the shoulder.

Ah - -

You see, you live in California and I live in Wyoming. In areas of extremely low population and low use - human waste is not as great of an issue. Of course, in Yellowstone and Grand Teton - given the short season and the number of tourists - it can be. Rafters have a greater obligation since river travel concentrates usage of the shoreline - especially popular camping spots. But I frequent remote places that may not have more than a handful of human users all season.

If I am in a remote location and off trail - I will only slightly cover feces in order to accelerate decomposition. Otherwise, I use the cathole method. I frequently bike in remote locations - so I am perfectly comfortable with these techniques. But when I am in areas with denser use - I try to follow managing agency guidelines. Many times, that means making use of an outhouse along my itinerary - although, to be perfectly honest, I much prefer to go au naturel than to be sitting in a smelly outhouse.

I do not think that I would choose any activity that would require me to transport wastes out - since I believe that it crosses the threshold to overkill. Either those locations are too heavily used for me to enjoy - or the management is excessive.

In order to get a permit to climb most major and popular mountains in the PNW you are required or asked to use the "blue bag" method of feces disposal. if you bring it, pack it out. The bags are often provided and are usually durable double zip locks. Not a big deal, just don't leave the filled bags in the sun-- they produce gas!:)

I understand this on mountains where most of the people are congragated along very constrained route. Also things last longer on glaciers and snow. The Outdoor Leadership School (NOLS) teaches a class called "Leave No Trace", and its concepts are practiced by many climbers and wilderness users. On bike tours I think it is just common sense and courtesy to leave a place much the way I find it. It helps the next poor cyclist who asks to camp on a person's land if it was left clean by the folks that camped there earlier.

ask to camp on someones land? i camp in the forest. typically not where another person will go for quite some time.

I just threw a banana peel out in my backyard.

I'll dig this thread up in two years.

I just threw a banana peel out in my backyard.

I'll dig this thread up in two years.

By the way, the rest of the peels I boxed up and sent back to Panama.

Here's the answer for packing a banana (mine glows in the dark for easy finding)

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_z6ezVf5Xq54/S2p5Eld6nTI/AAAAAAAAKB8/ukrl_xvT0MQ/s800/DSC_0013.JPG

According to my Master Composter wife (yes that is an actual title) in a healthy compost, banana peels can degrade in a couple of months but in soil with not much organic materials OR the wrong kind of decay it can take a lot longer. Of course in a land fill where the peel can be oxygen deprived it can take much much longer, even decades.

Here's the answer for packing a banana (mine glows in the dark for easy finding)

According to my Master Composter wife (yes that is an actual title) in a healthy compost, banana peels can degrade in a couple of months but in soil with not much organic materials OR the wrong kind of decay it can take a lot longer. Of course in a land fill where the peel can be oxygen deprived it can take much much longer, even decades.

My wife would probably love one of those, too...

Does a bear ***** (#2) in the woods? What happens if the bear slips on a Banana skin while trying to do the same? He finds a rabbit to clean himself on :)

Common rule is ~50 meters from a water source, cat hole 15 - 20cm deep, cover when done. Don't bury any deeper as it slows the breakdown process.

If you're worried about the time it takes for a Banana to break down do the same as above - in my climate a Banana skin left on the ground is pretty much gone within a week or 2 with the help of a few earth worms. I can see this would be an issue in cold climates though.

I voted for the 6" hole because I figured that's the closest option to what I did the last time I found myself in the need. Actually I turned up a big rock, placed my waste under it, an returned the rock to its original location.

But... you know... I let circumstances dictate my behavior.

Oh, I threw a banana peel in my yard yesterday. Actually, I tried to throw it over the forsythia and rose hedge into the meadow, and part of it got caught in the branches of the mulberry tree, right over a particularly thorny bit of the hedge and just out of reach. I hope my wife doesn't see it, if it's going to be there for two years. Oops.

If I'm in a park or other managed land, and there is guidance on management of poo, I try to follow that guidance. This is simply because, if someone's hanging out in my yard, I prefer that they not crap there, no matter how harmless they think it might be. It only seems fair that I do the same. If there's no specific guidance, I will bury it or leave it under a rock, away from water sources and well out of the probable paths of people.

I tend to hang on to my food trash in wild areas, till I get to a civilized area. This is to keep it from being dragged out of the trash cans and unattractively scattered by 'coons and 'possums, et cetera.

Machka brings up an interesting point about introducing nonnative and potentially harmful substances to a particular system. I'd like to see more discussion of this.

Cyclesafe ... you sound like a city boy. Have you ever been on a farm?

I live on 1200 acres of orchard and pasture. The pasture is populated mainly by cows. Cows .... plop. Everywhere. They don't bury it, treat it, carry it out etc. It just sits there in the field and on the track we call a road to get in and out of here. There are also wombats, kangaroos, wallabies, foxes, and possums in this area ... and birds of all sorts. And they all leave their droppings all over the place out here. And nature deals with it all.

Now, as a human, our droppings can have different sorts of bacteria etc. in them which we really don't want in our water system. So if we're out in the middle of nowhere, it is a good idea to look around to see where a water system (i.e. stream) might be located, and to choose a spot some distance away from that water system. And rather than just leaving our droppings sitting on top of the ground where they could wash into the water system when it rains, it is a good idea to dig a hole and bury them so that nature can deal with them.



That's right, because cows don't degrade water quality at all. :rolleyes:

Hopefully you have at least fenced off your streams and water sources on the farm so that cows do not go in them. This is a major problem with "country folk" in tennessee and it has seriously affected the water quality.

Also machka, the problem with urine has more to do with animal trying to dig at it to get to the salts, which can cause increased erosion and problems for the animals.


Also, all this talk of banana peels and such really gets to me. It is trash, it is non native, and I do not want to see YOUR banana peels when I am enjoying myself in the wilderness. When I am hiking I want to feel far away from trash and society, and seeing your waste, even if it is biodegradable over time, is not cool with me.

Yeah, that little snark about being a city boy got to me too. Typical holier than thou Machka... And then she opines that cows $hit everywhere so that somehow makes it ok... maybe after living in that huge aussie ranch for more than a year she'll "get it"?

Cows are one of the most destructive animals in any environment...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070220145244.htm

Having grown up in southern Arizona ranching land, I can personally attest to the havok that cows and cow crap wreak just about anywhere they graze. well, maybe not in southeast asia where they evolved... I dunno about there.

I bury my $hit for two reasons: should someone come along, its out of sight, and 2) animals will not feast upon it. one of the principles of LNT camping is to not disturb the local ecosystem, including perversion of animal diets with wasted food or waste.

if you're above the treeline, you should actually smear it on a rock so that it will dry out quickly (as per NOLS technique) and decompose. frozen turds will last a long time...

Oh, and mister veganaise, you dodged the question of what exactly is appropriate to throw off your bike? I for one don't want to see your bananna wrappers, quinoa scraps or tempeh balls when I'm out in the wild. So how about you try not to litter mmmkay?

Why not just bury the banana peel? It will be out of sight and it will fertilize the soil. Problem solved. As for the poo, just kick some dirt over it!

Hopefully you have at least fenced off your streams and water sources on the farm so that cows do not go in them.

I haven't seen a cow coming down from the sky when it rains or on our roof yet!! :lol:

Yeah, that little snark about being a city boy got to me too. Typical holier than thou Machka... And then she opines that cows $hit everywhere so that somehow makes it ok...

Having a bit of difficulty with the reading skills? Cows aren't the only creatures that leave droppings everywhere. Allow me to repeat, here in Australia we've got wombats, kanagroos, wallabies, foxes, possums etc. etc. etc. who also leave droppings everywhere. It's natural. For many of those creatures the droppings are fairly organic ... as in containing mainly plantlife, so they don't contain the bacterias needed to digest meat. Here in the pasture, you can see where the cows have dropped because there are spots of lush green grass dotted everywhere.

However, if you read my third paragraph, I talk about the difference in human droppings. Ours contains the bacterias needed to digest meat, and so it can cause other problems. Therefore if we need to go, we need to be away from a water source (someone else mentioned 50 metres and I believe that is the minimum ... the articles below suggests 100 metres), and we need to lightly bury it. I like the term "cat hole" ... not too deep or it doesn't get the oxygen needed to decompose, but deep enough that it doesn't get out into the environment. It's also a good idea to know the policies of the parks you're visiting.

http://www.parkweb.vic.gov.au/education/parks_people/ca2.cfm
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/lookingafterparks/BeAConsiderateParkVisitor.htm
http://www.australianalps.environment.gov.au/caring/leave-no-trace.html#gottogo

When nature calls and there are no formal facilities within range, what to do? I mean, most municipalities require owners to pack out dog poop. In sheltered areas along highways, the issue is the same. How often have we pulled over at a spot that affords some privacy and been confronted by the leavings of others' - including paper?

What about when stealth camping? Arrive late and leave early. Leave no trace. Really?

So I have posted this poll to try to understand to what extent cycle tourists will continue / alter their behavior to save the planet. The choices range from those that can be selected only by the most seriously committed to those that will be picked by the most self centered.

I'll vote for the cat hole, hey if it's good enough for the cat, it's good enough for human waste, although using facilities where supplied is probably a better option.
For Urine it really doesn't make much difference, except in very sensitive areas, solid waste, and I include the oft referenced banana peels, should be either packed out or buried, some distance from any water sources and from your camp site.

There was, upthread, a rather snide comment about Machka.
If I recall - "holier than thou".
And yet here is what the OP said -

"So I have posted this poll to try to understand to what extent cycle tourists
will continue / alter their behavior to save the planet."

If there is a moralistic tone, I think it came from the very first post.

I am a historian of rural communities.
I know that in western democracies, it is "one person, one vote".
Thus, urban voters will outvote ruralites in elections -
And will be far more represented in any forum, as well.

Still, there are different sets of values that prevail in different areas.
My earlier post tried to address this lightly.
But given the comment about Machka, I wish to be more direct.

There is nothing quite as amusing to rural folk than a cyclist who comes thru -
Proposing all sorts of world remedies under the guise of "save the planet".
When 99.9% of the food, fiber, and energy gobbled up by urbanites -
Is produced by those "ignorant" country yokels.

That is not to say that rural people do not have their own foibles -
Chief among them - that everything is perfect in Mudville.

But as far as I am concerned - you can keep your pee sacks and your poop sacks.
And I hasten to remind you that there is a significant environmental footprint
to produce and dispose of them.

It's a sad day when we need a permit and proper equipment to drop a load.

It seems to me that an issue like this always depends upon the situation. To put it simply, I try to use as much discretion as the situation allows. It's just a matter of simple courtesy. If I think someone might step into it, I'll bury it or at least cover it up. If I think that it might be years before anyone goes where I went, I might not worry about it. I just don't believe there's any hard and fast rule, just try to be as courteous and respectful of property as you can. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and all that.
P.S.: I throw my bananna peels off the side of the road.

Yep. I agree. (Except that I only throw my banana peels on the road if I'm way out in the country. Near civilization, I carry them to a trash can.)

there's always a trace, its just a matter of how noticable it is. also, i leave my banana peels for the racoons. they seem to like them.

There was, upthread, a rather snide comment about Machka.
If I recall - "holier than thou".
And yet here is what the OP said -

"So I have posted this poll to try to understand to what extent cycle tourists
will continue / alter their behavior to save the planet."

If there is a moralistic tone, I think it came from the very first post.

I am a historian of rural communities.
I know that in western democracies, it is "one person, one vote".
Thus, urban voters will outvote ruralites in elections -
And will be far more represented in any forum, as well.

Still, there are different sets of values that prevail in different areas.
My earlier post tried to address this lightly.
But given the comment about Machka, I wish to be more direct.

There is nothing quite as amusing to rural folk than a cyclist who comes thru -
Proposing all sorts of world remedies under the guise of "save the planet".
When 99.9% of the food, fiber, and energy gobbled up by urbanites -
Is produced by those "ignorant" country yokels.



sounds like you're holding onto some americana myth that doesn't exist anymore. you think that the produce you buy at kroger comes from a small farm? i think it's much more reasonable to say that something like 90% of the food out there comes from a small handful of giant agri-businesses who employ illegal immigrants as opposed to country yokels.

OP here.

Brothers and sisters, don't be hating!

80% will dig a hole and bury their poop. That's great news. Maybe someday I'll see a gear list with a trowel on it.

Veganaise: Thanks for letting me know that most people you know when backpacking use moss to wipe their asses. That's a good tip. I'll try it next time!

Machka: Yep, I'm a city boy, but despite that I do think there's a difference between humans pooping where I want to eat lunch and cows and other varmits pooping pretty much randomly wherever their sphincter lets loose. And I didn't know that stuff about the bacterias of meat eaters' poop causing problems that the bacterias of plant eaters' poop don't. Thanks for that!

Jamawani: I misused the catch phrase "save the planet". My bad! Certainly we're making only the tinnest baby steps to achieve that goal when we bury our poop! But I don't know what was in my post to imply that city boys like me were bent on imposing silly restrictions on country folk. Sorry anyway!

But, you know, it's interesting that so far, among 63 cycle tourists participating in the poll - a group that is generally to the left of moderate - NONE are going to haul their poop.

When nature calls and there are no formal facilities within range, what to do? I mean, most municipalities require owners to pack out dog poop. In sheltered areas along highways, the issue is the same. How often have we pulled over at a spot that affords some privacy and been confronted by the leavings of others' - including paper?

What about when stealth camping? Arrive late and leave early. Leave no trace. Really?

So I have posted this poll to try to understand to what extent cycle tourists will continue / alter their behavior to save the planet. The choices range from those that can be selected only by the most seriously committed to those that will be picked by the most self centered.

There are a number of areas within the national forest that I live in that require those who use it to take all their waste out with them. In the US, if cyclists are deemed to be a polluters who threaten natural habitats be prepared to see access to public lands denied to cyclists, much like the Continental Divide Trail was in 2007. The Forest Service has published proposed regulations that may allow a few areas of that trail to be opened up to mountain bikers, however there is opposition to that proposed regulation by other organizations worried about the impact of cyclists.

Jamawani,

I don't know if you have seen this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvcGs0ctSb0

Jamawani,

I don't know if you have seen this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvcGs0ctSb0

HUH!?!?! What was that?

This kayaker's poop tube (http://www.fastq.com/~jrschroeder/poop.htm) is similar to what I carried for two months hiking across the Arizona desert into NM a few years back. Had to cross very sensitive ecosystems. Sometime I had to us it for both jobs while other time I could pee on a rock letting it evaporate but still had to use the poop tube and kitty litter for #2

http://www.fastq.com/~jrschroeder/graphics/pt02.jpg

And here's another kind of poop tube (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/949054/the_poop_tube/). Maybe and idea for taking care of business while actively cycling (BEWARE: for mature audiences please, NWS)

I am an avid backpacker, rock climber and all around outdoors person. The 'Leave No Trace' initiative always says to dig and bury human waste more than 6" deep unless you cannot due to stone or vicinity to fresh water.

Truly Californian - like really.

But it really is scary.
Does she go to UCSC ??

sounds like you're holding onto some americana myth that doesn't exist anymore. you think that the produce you buy at kroger comes from a small farm? i think it's much more reasonable to say that something like 90% of the food out there comes from a small handful of giant agri-businesses who employ illegal immigrants as opposed to country yokels.

If I remember correctly "The Grapes of Wrath" and Dorothea Lange's photos from the Great Depression chronicle rural people - many of whom worked in food production - practically none of whom owned their land. Whether or not food production comes from corporate farms or from an Iowa American Gothic farm doesn't change the fact that it is produced by rural people. The Imperial Valley and Central Valley in California suggest a somewhat more industrialized model - where farm workers live in smaller cities like Calexico and Madera. Most sociologists would consider these people urban agricultural workers. Most urban Californians would consider them rural. In the Great Plains, workers on industrial farms usually live in small towns of a few thousand.

So, yes, I am aware of the land ownership patterns in agriculture.

NONE are going to haul their poop.
Not sure why you find that interesting - if you read the general consensus, there is no need to haul it. Except for some very specific environmentally sensitive areas.

Poop is just poop - everybody does it. At home I have a septic system which means all the poop goes into a tank and gets broken down by bacteria, just like in a cat hole - the overflow seeps out underground to feed my lawn and trees - very health tree's :)