Classic & Vintage - How to remove the dust caps from quill-type pedals?

Ok - before I just throw in the towel I thought I'd ask:
Is there some clever way to remove the dust caps off this type of quill pedal?
(There is hardly any lip around them.)

The bearings sound like there is sand in them, and I'd prefer to repack than replace them.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Bike%20Forums/Pedal.jpg

Never done it but would think you could pry them off with a thin flat blade screwdriver. Try tapping a screwdriver into the gap with a small hammer.

My experience is that when there is no obvious means of removing the cap, there are no user serviceable parts inside. If/when you do eventually pry the cap off, you'll likely find that the bearing cone (if in fact there even is one) is permanently swaged to the axle.

My advice: use 'em until they die, they replace them.

Never done it but would think you could pry them off with a thin flat blade screwdriver. Try tapping a screwdriver into the gap with a small hammer.

Thanks Otis - but I had tried several sizes of flat blades but could not get a bite with any of them. The lip is practically flush with the crown, and slightly radiused as well.

Thanks Otis - but I had tried several sizes of flat blades but could not get a bite with any of them. The lip is practically flush with the crown, and slightly radiused as well.

Then try hitting the axle end with a hammer hard enough to drive the cap off from the inside :)

But I think John is right, that these were not meant to be worked on. The best you can probably do is drip a bunch of oil in from the axle side.

My experience is that when there is no obvious means of removing the cap, there are no user serviceable parts inside. If/when you do eventually pry the cap off, you'll likely find that the bearing cone (if in fact there even is one) is permanently swaged to the axle.

My advice: use 'em until they die, they replace them.

Oh wow - I didn't think of that possibility - that they were not intended to be serviced. They belong to an old Raleigh and I had just assumed that nothing gets wasted, but you are right - the balls may very well be swaged right in there!

Can the pedal spindle be removed from the pedal from the crank side?

Then try hitting the axle end with a hammer hard enough to drive the cap off from the inside :)

But I think John is right, that these were not meant to be worked on. The best you can probably do is drip a bunch of oil in from the axle side.

I did try the hammer trick but it was ineffectual. I think I'll tak your advice and try to drip 3M some oil in there just to quiet them down .

Can the pedal spindle be removed from the pedal from the crank side?

Hi frpax - I only wish. Thanks for asking the question though.
- A

It is a serviceable pedal, and a pretty good one, too. You're just not pushing hard enough.

But before you do this, why do you want to?

It is a serviceable pedal, and a pretty good one, too. You're just not pushing hard enough.

But before you do this, why do you want to?

Right, that looks like an Atom (440?). I know that sciencemonster has the same pedals and he does overhaul them.

Right, Atom. I couldn't remember the name. I have some. I really like the old French pedals. Not the smoothest bearings, but very durable.

It is a serviceable pedal, and a pretty good one, too. You're just not pushing hard enough.

But before you do this, why do you want to?

Hi noglider -
I'm not clear on what you mean by "not pushing hard enough" - Do you mean with the screw drivers?
To push any harder I'll need a bigger hammer.

I wanted to repack them because they sound all gritty. I could ride them but if I can repack them I won't need to worry about it again until 2050.

from Velobase: "Earlier years had adjustable cups/bearings, but later the pedal shaft end is crimped/pressed with no nut. "
I think these may be the later "no-user-serviceable" versions, as I never had that much trouble opening up earlier ones. I wouldn't try hitting the axle harder to try and drive the cap off: AFAIK the only way it can work is where you'd also drive IN the inboard cup, resulting in a ruined pedal.

For what it's worth, I have the same pedals and I made a weak attempt to service the bearings. I was not able to easily remove the cover so I just let them go.

Just out of curiosity, what bike did these come on?

For what it's worth, I have the same pedals and I made a weak attempt to service the bearings. I was not able to easily remove the cover so I just let them go.

Just out of curiosity, what bike did these come on?

I'm not having much luck either - I think unworthy1 has removed the mystery as to why.
These came off my 72 SC below.
I'm slowly buttoning it up. I'll check on new 3/8" cotters for it tomorrow, and if the LBS has none, it'll wait till I place another parts order. I may order a pair of new caged pedals at the same time.


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Raleigh%20Super%20Course%201972%20-%20Coffee/72RaleighSuperCourse-sidea.jpg

Well, that makes sense since are pedals are probably within a year or so of each other. Nice bike, mine came with my 73 Raleigh Gran Sport. One thing, aren't these pedals french threaded? I would double check before you try to thread a different pedal in place.

For the record, I believe these pedals are called "rat traps" rather than "Quills". I had a pair of these that originally came on my '75 Raleigh Super Course. They are serviceable. You need to pry (er, is that prise) out the dustcaps using a thin bladed Screw driver. A trick to get things started is to use a single edged Razor blade that is lightly tapped with a hammer to start it under the dust cap. Then, one can work in an old pocket knife blade to further nudge the caps. Eventually, you will obtain an area where you can get the thin scew driver blade into. You may also have to work from two different positions to gently lift out the dust caps. I recall that these pedals could run really smoothly after repacking. I only replaced them as they were very wide and heavy compared to the Spanish-made quills I replaced them with. Good Luck!

Lyotard made a pretty good rat trap pedal that came with many mid level bikes like the early PH10s. IIRC, I was able to service those Lyotards. It's a good alternative to the Atoms if you cannot find them.

Chombi

Hi Elcraft - I had attempted a blade to pry up the dist caps but it did not work out - the lip is about .030-060" from the face of the pedal, but slightly radiused and practially welded in, allowing no purchase with any tool I tried.

Thanks Mkeller234 and Chiombi - I really appreciate the warning and advice on French Threaded Pedals. Luckily though, this particular Stronglight crank is English threaded.

BTW - I am not completely sure about this usage, but back in the day, "Rat traps" referred to any pedal carrying what we now refer to as "toe clips" . (At least if we had called it a "toe clip" back then, the kids in my old 'hood would have thought you were getting a pedicure :).)

I think these pedals are correctly called "caged-quill pedals" since the mechanical dictionary definition for a "quill" is as follows:

a. a hollow shaft or sleeve through which another independently rotating shaft may pass.
b. a shaft, joined to and supported by two other shafts or machines, for transmitting motion from one to the other.
c. a rotating toolholder used in boring or facing internal angles.

Ok - before I just throw in the towel I thought I'd ask:
Is there some clever way to remove the dust caps off this type of quill pedal?
(There is hardly any lip around them.)

The bearings sound like there is sand in them, and I'd prefer to repack than replace them.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Bike%20Forums/Pedal.jpg

Hi.
Just thought I'd add this to the mix, Raleigh did make some pretty cheap Rat-Traps with none servicable bearings, I think you may have a pair of these. Atom were a much better quality and are servicable as were earlier Raleigh pedals.

385XZA

Hi.
Just thought I'd add this to the mix, Raleigh did make some pretty cheap Rat-Traps with none servicable bearings, I think you may have a pair of these. Atom were a much better quality and are servicable as were earlier Raleigh pedals.

385XZA

Those are definitely Atom pedals, I have the same pair. If the OP looks at the pedal body close enough he will see "Atom 440, made in France".

Try a small, sharp, and strong flat head or even an awl. Once you get it started, the rest is easy. It's that first little bit that is tough.

And, of course, once you get the cap off, then you have to get the rusty recessed nut inside off.

It goes a lot faster if you don't care so much about the cap, or puncture wounds so much...

They will not be French-threaded. They were made in France, and they made them with whichever threading the bike maker wanted. Raleigh did not use French-threaded pedals.

They will not be French-threaded. They were made in France, and they made them with whichever threading the bike maker wanted. Raleigh did not use French-threaded pedals.

That is good to know. I just assumed that they were since both the crank and the pedals on my Raleigh were French.

No, I've never seen anything French-threaded on a Raleigh, other than things that SHOULD be metric-threaded, such as on brakes and derailleurs.

Anyway, if you have a French-threaded pedal eye, you can force an English-threaded pedal into it. Better if you tap it out, though.

No, I've never seen ...(fill in blank)... on a Raleigh

Famous last words, no?

Famous last words, no?


Well, yeah, but I worked on a LOT of 1970's and earlier Raleighs. I could be wrong, so take my word for whatever it's worth. Lots of things vary on Raleighs, but not this, in my experience.

mkeller234 - You were right as rain - they ARE atom 440's and they are serviceable - in the loosest sense of the word.
I had to use a large, broad, chisel to pry the cap off, using the pedal cage as reactive surface. I also used some PB Blaster to help it along. . .

Even so, the tool must have slipped a dozen times in trying to remove the cap - so this is a very DANGEROUS operation, and I am NOT RECOMMENDING this method to anyone.
Fortunately, I only gouged my workbench, and not myself, and was able to repack and reassemble both pedals. They are good as new, but I think next time I will BUY some new pedals instead.

Many thanks to all.
- A

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Bike%20Forums/Pedalapart.jpg

Your labor must be worth money or something. ;)

I haven't overhauled a pedal in a long time. And I don't ever plan to overhaul another freewheel. Still, I might have done the same, to breathe new life into an Atom or Lyotard pedal. I guess I'm sentimental.

mkeller234 - You were right as rain - they ARE atom 440's and they are serviceable - in the loosest sense of the word.
I had to use a large, broad, chisel to pry the cap off, using the pedal cage as reactive surface. I also used some PB Blaster to help it along. . .

Even so, the tool must have slipped a dozen times in trying to remove the cap - so this is a very DANGEROUS operation, and I am NOT RECOMMENDING this method to anyone.
Fortunately, I only gouged my workbench, and not myself, and was able to repack and reassemble both pedals. They are good as new, but I think next time I will BUY some new pedals instead.

Many thanks to all.
- A

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Bike%20Forums/Pedalapart.jpg
Oh god,..... that chisel must be shizzled. That's a pic woodworker or sculptor will get real sick looking at........I guess a man's gotta do what he's gotta do......

Chombi

Your labor must be worth money or something. ;)

I haven't overhauled a pedal in a long time. And I don't ever plan to overhaul another freewheel. Still, I might have done the same, to breathe new life into an Atom or Lyotard pedal. I guess I'm sentimental.

Yeah, they may not be fancy but I think they are attractive. I think I will have another go at my pedals now.

I was laughing about the earlier Raleigh comment... consistency seems to be one of the things that Raleigh/TI couldn't just buy out!

No, I've never seen anything French-threaded on a Raleigh, other than things that SHOULD be metric-threaded, such as on brakes and derailleurs.
No, Raleigh would use Whitworth threads when they wanted to be arbitrarily different.

Maybe try starting these caps with a box knife? Use safety glasses.

Maybe try starting these caps with a box knife? Use safety glasses.

Hi sailorbenjamin -
Tried it. I couldn't get adequate pressure with a box knife - But again, I would caution anyone against applying such force with any sharp implement to remove a recalcitrant cap - even with safety glasses .

Chombi - sorry if I offended the sensibilities of the woodworkers out there. The chisel in question is an old Buck Bros Chisel, and despite the terrible duties I have subjected it to, I want you to know I hold it in high esteem! - It has served me well when nothing else would do.

No, Raleigh would use Whitworth threads when they wanted to be arbitrarily different.

Exactly.

Where do I get Whitworth wrenches? It's amazing how neither English nor metric wrenches fit on those nuts!

...Where do I get Whitworth wrenches? ...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Bike%20Forums/wrenchWhitworth.jpg

Sears, Ace Hardware, Lowes, Aco, Napa, Pep Boys ....;)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Bike%20Forums/wrenchWhitworth.jpg

Sears, Ace Hardware, Lowes, Aco, Napa, Pep Boys ....;)

Haha, that was going to be my answer too. I always feel like such a hack when I am using one of those, wrenching away with "little shop of horrors" stuck in my head.

My experience is that when there is no obvious means of removing the cap, there are no user serviceable parts inside. If/when you do eventually pry the cap off, you'll likely find that the bearing cone (if in fact there even is one) is permanently swaged to the axle.

+1 Exactly what I found with a pair of probably bottom of the line Lyotards. Not able to go any further once they were open I just pumped as much grease as I could (= very little) into them, put the caps back on and gave them to a friend.

Very funny, Dude. Doesn't work very well on a seat binder bolt.

those look just like the ATOM pedals on my early 70's jeunet. i will check tonight to see if they are user-serviceable.

Those are definitely Atom pedals, I have the same pair. If the OP looks at the pedal body close enough he will see "Atom 440, made in France".

I've got a pair of Atoms on a Raleigh Grand-Prix, the dust caps screw off ( they have ATOM stamped onto the dust cap)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/auchencrow/Bike%20Forums/Pedalapart.jpg

Is the hex piece immediately to the left of the keyed washer the cone?

Is the hex piece immediately to the left of the keyed washer the cone?

Yes -(The other one is integral with the large boss on the shaft.)

those look just like the ATOM pedals on my early 70's jeunet.
Have a set from my Schwinn Continental.Everytime I see them it reminds of a post from the wacky CL ads thread for a French made Scwhinn. :)

I've greased non-serviceable pedals like these by drilling a tiny hole in the end cap (holding pedal up so no drillings go inside) and then squirting grease in with a tip on a grease gun.

I've greased non-serviceable pedals like these by drilling a tiny hole in the end cap (holding pedal up so no drillings go inside) and then squirting grease in with a tip on a grease gun.

Ofmega made pedals with endcaps that have small allen head screw plugs at its centers to grease their bearings without taking off the end caps. Unfortunately OFmega did not tell us that and we thought the small allenhead bungs were some sort of endcap removing screw that pushes against the end of the spindle to drive out the snapped on cap off the pedal. We found out it's real function when the screw fell in without removing the cap and we had to to force off the cap with some visegrips after other tools had failed miserably to remove them from the pedal to retrieve it and keep it from getting into the end bearings.....of course the cap would not snap back on anymore after we got the screw out and serviced the bearings. My brother had to ride with one pedal missing it's end cap for a whole season after that.
Thanks to Ofmega for not including instructions with their pedals to help owners figure these things out!
Ofmega stuff was sometimes so goofy that I swear the owners must have some French blood in them!

Chombi

oohh, I really did feel a pang of nausea when I saw that really nice WOOD chisel and read what you used it for.

not that I've never done the same, but I have a couple very cheap chisels that have been demoted to this duty. Nice that after all that effort you weren't met with a swaged-on nut, been there/done that. MorningStar used to sell a little kit just for drilling the little injector hole in a pedal or hub.

I have the same Atom 440 pedals on a 1971 Schwinn Super Sport. It only took a couple of minutes to pop off the dust cap off safely as follows:

1. Put a pedal flat on a hard work surface.
2. Align a precision screw driver's flat tip carefully on edge between the cap and the pedal shaft.
3. Hit the back of the screw driver with a rubber mallet.
4. Turn around the pedal and follow steps 2-3 till egde gap increases to a point that you can manually pry off the dust cap with the screw driver tip.

oohh, I really did feel a pang of nausea when I saw that really nice WOOD chisel and read what you used it for. not that I've never done the same, but I have a couple very cheap chisels that have been demoted to this duty.

ARGH! Me too ! PLEASE AUCH ! ....let me send you a cheap modern Stanley for such operations in the future ! I'd be happy to. That's a beautiful old chisel. Buck Bros.?