Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - 8 centuries in 8 days

A friend and I are planning on riding from Reno to the Grand Canyon this June. He will use panniers and I'll use a Bob trailer. We will motel it about 3 of the 8 nights and camp the other 5(partly on the extraterrestial highway). I have no specific point to make other than it won't be a "gentle tour" across Nevada and Utah. I plan to do at least one two day two century camping trip beforehand with the trailer....to familiarize myself with it's handling. Meanwhile, I train intensely on a Compu-trainer during the Winter (110 miles weekly @ 80-100% effort). Any comments or suggestions? Thanks for reading!
Raydog

Sounds fun. What bicycle will be towing that trailer?

Sounds like too many miles in too few days for me, hope it works for you.

A couple of thoughts: Do you have any long dry spots in there? If so, how much water do you have to tote? Also, do you already have the trailer, and know how it pulls?

With two people, if you know for sure that both of you will make the full distance, you can divy up the camping gear and save quite a bit of weight over what you'd be hauling going solo. When backpacking, it's tempting to take too much, and with the trailer and panniers, you may have trouble leaving stuff at home that you need to leave home.

Only comment is "Have a good time".
Are you from Reno, any chance?

Sounds like fun! If you're in half decent shape and have no weather complications (wind), you might even make it a couple of days earlier than you plan.

P.S. Don't listen to all the lightweight BF touring weenies who might chime in and tell you that you are trying to do waaaay too many miles.

Thanks for all your input everybody! I'll be riding a Motobecane 27 spd with 700x26's, aluminum with carbon fork, double wrap w/gel bar surface. The bike is about a 20 pounder with Crank Bros 1/2 platform pedals. I'lll use my mountain bike shoes (comfy and recessed clips). I'm having a blast selecting equipment (featherweight tent, bag, pad, iPod, etc.). I don't want to "share" the load with my buddy because I want to be fully independant to increase my knowledge re: future solo rides. I think I can get my cargo under 35 lbs including 5-6 water bottles and food (no stove equipment). I chose the Bob for a few reasons.....center of gravity is UNDER bike's axels, I love an unencumbered bike, Bob users I've talked to stay Bob users! And finally, I'll replace the 45psi Bob tire with a 90 psi one. Again, thanks for the dialog! Doyle (Raydog)

Only comment is "Have a good time".
Are you from Reno, any chance?

Why yes I am from Reno! Howdy to you. I train at Great Basin Bicycles on South Virginia....6 days a week availability.....come on over (4:30-6:00 pm).
It's a blast!

Also Thulsadoom....I agree, the more milage the better, the personal challenge is 1/2 the fun!

Wow, good luck. That sounds like a strenuous albeit fulfilling ride. I can't wait to do a LD ride through the desert. And the Grand Canyon, what an amazing way to end a ride. I camped there this summer for the first time in my life on my way back from CA doing a LD ride, and it absolutely blew my mind, breathtaking. I hope you have an amazing experience.

P.S. Don't listen to all the lightweight BF touring weenies who might chime in and tell you that you are trying to do waaaay too many miles.

Agreed. That sounds like an awesome ride and I'm very jealous.

What route are you thinking on using?

That'll be very easy to do if you put in the training time, I would recommend doing lots of back to back centuries on the weekends. The biggest thing to remember is to take it easy on the tour and don't push your legs too hard

I'll be going south on 95 then east on the "extraterestial highway" (I understand everybody just pulls off the road and camps, rv's included....to look for UFO"s!). From there into Cedar City in Utah then Kanab THEN the last leg will be 80 miles into the park and the North Rim Lodge). Our families will meet us there in the SUV's for a few days more then home! The total elevation gain for 8 days is 21,000 ft.....not bad. Some nights we will be nowhere around any civilization, that should be interesting.

That's a solid route. I've seen most of it from a car window and, as you know, everything looks better from the seat of your bike. I never did see any UFOs, but maybe you'll have better luck. ;)

Enjoy the ride!

Loaded touring is rather different from lightly loaded touring. You need to do at least a couple of 2-3d
weekends with a full load over tough terrain and 80-100 mi/ day ahead of time to see just how different
this is. My one experience with this when I was a whole lot stronger than I am now, in the '70s, was
to bike loaded with ~20# clothes from Dulles Airport to Bham, AL, about 650 miles. Planned to go down
the Blue Ridge Parkway, that was in the era where ready info was not easily found. Knew facilities
sparse, not how sparse, as in no motels, food stops and rare water stops, hills 3-6mi long at 4-6mph
so I had to bail to Shenandoah valley. Made it to Ashville, when rain storms and early sunsets and
western NC mountains (this was in Oct) lead me to fly to Atlanta. Great trip, just not fully thought out.

Good stuff you guys. I just got home from another 40 miles on Computrainer at the shop. MY BOB CAME IN TODAY! I'm glad I got there early, the owner let me break it out of the box and assemble it myself. It's lighter than I thought it would be and I can't believe it's capacity! Powdercoated gloss black and big bright yellow bag (waterproof). The only mods I'll do is install a blinking LED tail light and go from a 45psi tire to a 90psi one (saving the 45psi for a spare). As soon as my LL Bean down bag arrives my equipment will be complete so I'm going to list it on a post under this heading, weigh just the trailer then weigh it fully loaded. I'll post all the results, I'm quite curious. (I even bought a S&W Airweight .38 that's part of the cargo/I'm totally legal BTW).
More later.

I guess I see why the OP posted this here, the touring forum would be too negative about it. My idea of a tour has always been to just keep riding until I get to my destination. I guess that's how I ended up here.

I guess I see why the OP posted this here, the touring forum would be too negative about it. My idea of a tour has always been to just keep riding until I get to my destination. I guess that's how I ended up here.

That's interesting....why do you think they would be negative, pulling a trailer? Too much daily mileage? I absolutely take full responsibility for this experience, including any mistakes I make. One thing for sure, no one can blame me for inferior equipment or no planning! Raydog

A lot of people, including myself, look at 100 miles a day as a doable distance. But it is a lot of riding, no doubt about that. And setting up for the night, eating and getting ready in the morning take some time. So basically it's a very hurried tour. And if you're going to do that, why so much weight? There is a lot of expertise down there in touring, you might want to ask them. Touring is a discipline, it's not easy and I've seen a lot of people make themselves miserable and have to adapt on the road when they could have learned from experienced tourists.

That shiny yellow bag is probably great for monsoons, but you might be a little surprised if you throw it on the scale alone. Seems to me it runs close to 4 pounds by itself. Mine lives happily in the back of my closet and a little nylon duffelbag more often rides in the BOB.

Raydog, what route are you thinking about? Down 95 to Tonopah, then over to Panaca and Cedar City?

There's no right or wrong way to do a tour. Sounds to me like he wants to do a lot of riding and he can rest when he gets to the Grand Canyon.

I wouldn't see weight being a huge issue. Obviously you always want to go as light as you reasonably can, but the climbing isn't even 3,000 feet per day.

Rodar....yes, that's my route. Re: daily schedule....leaving super early (6-7am) then getting the mileage done, even at 15 mph average, is less than 7 hours daily seat time. If I can't arrive at my daily destination at 3pm and get 1)ducks in a row for next day 2)eat and rest 3)set up and dissassemble campsite, then I don't deserve to do this! As to mechanical issues, I am competent enough to do roadside repairs if needed. Total towing weight? I'm shooting for under 40 pounds but I don't have numbers yet (will soon). This ride DOES NOT go over the Rockies and the BOB has very little rolling resistance. BTW, skeptisism makes my pretrip efforts even more intense! Doyle

That's interesting....why do you think they would be negative, pulling a trailer? Too much daily mileage? I absolutely take full responsibility for this experience, including any mistakes I make. One thing for sure, no one can blame me for inferior equipment or no planning! Raydog


the tendancy at the touring forum is that you shouldnt plan so aggressively, that you might prefer to take a day for rest in the middle, or choose to stop at various places along the way "to smell the roses"
that said, they really do have a lot of valuable information about equipment and planning and you can probably get some good pointers on stopping points.
I am hoping to do a 6 day 600 mile "tour" at the end of this summer, I am interested in your experience and what you might choose to do differently if you could do it over again.

I just typed a long reply then lost it to the abyss! How frustrating. Anyways, the jist of it was that I know myself enough to say I'm not the type to plan on taking in the local "colors" or indigeneous bird families. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that type of rider, I'm simply hardwired to emphasize the ride itself. That doesn't mean that I won't enjoy laying on my back in the evening after a big meal and pondering the universe....but come morning, "the ride" is what it's about for me. How far will we get today? Let's pound an extra 18 miles today cause there's a hot springs in that next town....stuff like that. If "we have to do a rest day" comes into the dialog, that means one of us didn't train hard enough for this tour! Doyle

I just typed a long reply then lost it to the abyss! How frustrating. Anyways, the jist of it was that I know myself enough to say I'm not the type to plan on taking in the local "colors" or indigeneous bird families. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that type of rider, I'm simply hardwired to emphasize the ride itself. That doesn't mean that I won't enjoy laying on my back in the evening after a big meal and pondering the universe....but come morning, "the ride" is what it's about for me. How far will we get today? Let's pound an extra 18 miles today cause there's a hot springs in that next town....stuff like that. If "we have to do a rest day" comes into the dialog, that means one of us didn't train hard enough for this tour! Doyle

That's an excellent post, very well put.

Unfortunately, you can't make most "touring experts" understand that mentality. Of course, most of the experts spend a lot more time on their computers than on their bikes.

Quick little update.....I just assembled my new Bob trailer, took it home, and was pleased to discover that my new Underarmour black bag is 1 1/2 lbs. lighter than the yellow bag that comes with.....and fits in perfectly! I'll simply pack a drawstring trashbag for rain protection, no big deal. BTW, the common critisism seems to be, "the Bob trailer allows you to pack to much, therefore you are unnecessarily too heavy". Since I'm being very precise with my cargo....I believe that aspect is irrevelant for me. Doyle

100 miles a day is a lot. However, it is perfectly sustainable.
Keep in mind, people walk the whole Appalachian trail every year walking 20 miles a day with a lot of weight on their backs, which is more of a beat down on your body than a bike.
If you aren't doing 100 mile days often, your legs will get really, really sore on about day 3, like too sore to walk. The more often you put in that type of mileage the less your legs will hurt a few days after starting.
Thing is, your body is insanely adaptable. If you have the mental strength to push through the pain, your muscles will come around and the last 3 days will be a really good time.
The first time I did a century a day for 7 days I was in no shape to do it. The first 3 days sucked. The last 3 were a great time. That middle day was a wierd one. Do not underestimate your body's ability to get in shape on the trip.
But train anyway!!!!

Thanks for that advice benajah. I just poped for a new rear wheelset, same ratios but a much lighter, but stronger wheel(and going from a 23 width to a 25 tire width). Now that the weather is improving in Reno, I'll start doing road centuries. Each Saturday for a few weeks (including pulling the trailer with 50% weight in it) then I'll move into century on Saturday, camp, return century on Sunday routines...I don't know how many, my family is so patient and understanding! My 2 hour Computrtainer sessions with many fast young racers, I think, will have really paid off. I think I'll be surprised how "easy" it'll be to pedal the streets since the sessions have been 80-100% 2 hr efforts, no resting/coasting whatsoever. Some Saturdays I've hammered that thing for 5 hours straight....probably more wattage required than a level century. My weight has gone from 241 to 218 with no real dieting. My body is very rock hard and at my current pace I think I'll be 200 even by "game day" (June 13th). I feel SO STRONG AND FIT! It'll be interesting to see if I'm humbled when I get onto the street in a week or two! Anyways, I'll sure keep posting about the experience. BTW, I'm 62 years old. Doyle

Go get `em, Tarzan! In the PM, I mentioned hooking up with you for a few rides, but it sounds like your trainer riding is going to have you starting out way over my current level when you first hit the pavement. We`ll see, but I`m still at about 80 miles per week and so far no long rides. Also, I`m going to be patient this year and keep the increase more gradual than I have the past few years and see if my knees do better. June 13th? You ought to have great chances for nice weather about then- it`s going to be a blast.

Go get `em, Tarzan! In the PM, I mentioned hooking up with you for a few rides, but it sounds like your trainer riding is going to have you starting out way over my current level when you first hit the pavement. We`ll see, but I`m still at about 80 miles per week and so far no long rides. Also, I`m going to be patient this year and keep the increase more gradual than I have the past few years and see if my knees do better. June 13th? You ought to have great chances for nice weather about then- it`s going to be a blast.

Don't you think it could still be chilly sleeping on the ground (tent and bag of course) in the middle of Nevada? Mid June, I'm thinking 80-90 degree days.

Sounds like fun! If you're in half decent shape and have no weather complications (wind), you might even make it a couple of days earlier than you plan.

P.S. Don't listen to all the lightweight BF touring weenies who might chime in and tell you that you are trying to do waaaay too many miles.

Thurlsadoom, i did 24 non stop days at an average of 94 miles a day and six of the days well over 110 miles at 43 and 45 yrs old with no particular heavy training and a beginner to serious riding through all conditions. I liked your comment here'cos your are obviously a well travelled fella who people listen to. I tried to break into a conversation with a couple of guys about this last year but got blanked, i think they were on about heavy prep for seven days of centuries,i have only just worked out what a century is. I didnt know you needed all this prep i just did' em cos i wanted too. Does this make sense?

Thurlsadoom, i did 24 non stop days at an average of 94 miles a day and six of the days well over 110 miles at 43 and 45 yrs old with no particular heavy training and a beginner to serious riding through all conditions. I liked your comment here'cos your are obviously a well travelled fella who people listen to. I tried to break into a conversation with a couple of guys about this last year but got blanked, i think they were on about heavy prep for seven days of centuries,i have only just worked out what a century is. I didnt know you needed all this prep i just did' em cos i wanted too. Does this make sense?

Sure it does. Some people are bound to be much stronger than others.

So many people tend to conform to standardized thinking, that there is a certain amount of mileage that you should ride on tour, a certain amount of weight you should pack, a certain kind of bike you should own, on and on. And if someone posts that they are going to tour in a way that doesn't conform to the standards that the reader sets for themselves, then the reader will try to discourage them. It's just BS.

Some people will be able to ride much stronger on a tour, simply because they are much more physically capable to do so, comfortably, than others. Maybe they are just naturally stronger riders. Maybe they are better trained. Maybe both. Maybe, like the OP, they like to ride hard on a tour because that is part of the fun.

I wouldn't sit in a weightroom and start trying to tell anyone how much they should try to lift until I see how strong they are. One person might hurt themselves trying to lift 40 pounds. Another might lift 300 pounds with ease. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone on an on-line discussion forum how much they try to lift, just because it might be more than what I can handle. But for some reason I see lots of posts by on-line touring experts trying to discourage others from touring outside the comfort zone of their own particular box.

Thulsadoom, good post, and I must add that there are always people out there that preach about the "proper way to do it". If information/advice could be quantified in weight....when 100 pounds comes in.....probably less than 20 of it is really applicable and meaningful! Not to say I don't listen to it all, it's just that I've been on the planet long enough to know that I am the only clearing house for the information I receive and, through critical analysis, will distill it down to what's relevant and beneficial to me. That doesn't mean that the rest of the advice wasn't offered by generous, knowledgeable people either! I love to read about others' trials and errors. Most of it seems offered in good faith by friendly people too (although we know there be lurking "know it alls" about as well).
One thing is clear to me....I will finish this journey, I will have a great time, I will learn a lot and I will test my limits daily....because that's how I am hard wired and bicycling is a fantastic medium for that self expression! Doyle

Don't you think it could still be chilly sleeping on the ground (tent and bag of course) in the middle of Nevada? Mid June, I'm thinking 80-90 degree days.
Sure, it could get chilly at night. But if you go when that`s most unlikely, it will also be more likely to see 100+ temps in the afternoons. Actually, I`d guess that the chilly stuff will be the southern end of your route where you stay up at higher elevations. Most of the NV part is only high for a little while, then back into the valleys. How high is North Rim? Around 8000 ft? Whatever it works out to, it`s a lot higher than Tonopah and Rachel.

Sure, it could get chilly at night. But if you go when that`s most unlikely, it will also be more likely to see 100+ temps in the afternoons. Actually, I`d guess that the chilly stuff will be the southern end of your route where you stay up at higher elevations. Most of the NV part is only high for a little while, then back into the valleys. How high is North Rim? Around 8000 ft? Whatever it works out to, it`s a lot higher than Tonopah and Rachel.

OK, thanks....BTW, I'll be doing weekend centuries before June so if you feel "fit", throw me a PM and join in! (for example, the road to Gerlach...out 50 miles then turn around and come back to cars).

Just some thoughts from various camping and driving in that general area.

Some highways have endless series of climbs. They do not show as huge mountians, just 1000-2000 feet of climb, followed by the same decent then climbing again, like giant rolling waves. Night can be all over the place. I've seen it stay 80 and have a strong wing, meaning you cook in a tent and are uncomfortable cold outside. Or it can be freezibng at night and 110 in the day. My last camping trip hit Bryce, Zion and the Grand Canyon. It was November much of the time was nice, but the trip home was rainstorm for a couple of days straight. That would have been nasty on a bike, worse on a bike if one did not have the gear needed.

If I were doing somethnig like this I'd really want to know the prevailing winds. That can turn out to be a huge difference, even if one has enough more miles with the wind that the total effort is the same going with the wind is so much easier mentally.

Just some thoughts from various camping and driving in that general area.

Some highways have endless series of climbs. They do not show as huge mountians, just 1000-2000 feet of climb, followed by the same decent then climbing again, like giant rolling waves. Night can be all over the place. I've seen it stay 80 and have a strong wing, meaning you cook in a tent and are uncomfortable cold outside. Or it can be freezibng at night and 110 in the day. My last camping trip hit Bryce, Zion and the Grand Canyon. It was November much of the time was nice, but the trip home was rainstorm for a couple of days straight. That would have been nasty on a bike, worse on a bike if one did not have the gear needed.

If I were doing somethnig like this I'd really want to know the prevailing winds. That can turn out to be a huge difference, even if one has enough more miles with the wind that the total effort is the same going with the wind is so much easier mentally.

Thanks Keith, that's great advice....I'm going to find one of those "flow" maps that illustrate prevailing winds just out of curiosity! Doyle

What a fun weekend! Besides training, I "set up" the Bob trailer in the family room and loaded it to see what it looks like (weight, profile, etc.). I know this isn't my typical way of describing something but.....it's so cute! The two bottle cages, taillight, flag, fender, it's so functional looking. I now know the warning...."watch out, you might bring too much cargo" warning, it really has an amazing capacity. Pics, more info and maiden journey will follow in a week or so (Reno weather). My first run will be with the trailer attached and 1/2 load(60-80 miles). Raydog

Any test rides with the trailer?

Any test rides with the trailer?

No not yet.....Reno has had pretty miserable weather recently. I'm still on the Computrainer to the tune of about 130 miles a week (alot of 40 mile rides @ 80-100%). Plus my streetbike has a "roller tire" mounted right now so I don't want to make the switch just yet. I did go on a 2 hour mountain bike ride last Sunday and could tell how much the "roller Winter" has benefited me! Anyways, in a week or two I'll do my first century (complete with trailer) and I'll post about it in this section. Raydog

i'll be doing 175 miles in two days on a fixed gear in the beginning of july. with a camel pak and a backpack to carry everything.

i'll be doing 175 miles in two days on a fixed gear in the beginning of july. with a camel pak and a backpack to carry everything.

That's impressive in so many ways. Are the lack of mechanical complexities and lightness the two biggest lures to fixed gear bikes?

That, and being badass, I would imagine.

Although the appeal of an extremely low-maintenance tour bike is quite appealing, especially in a non-hilly area.

I have a BOB and panniers - the panniers are way better for daily riding, commuting to work, store, beer runs, etc - because of the awkwardness of the BOB. The BOB is way better for what your doing. In my experience I can maintain higher speeds with the BOB - especially if there is a head wind. Also, the BOB is awesome off road. One tip I'll give is try to start each day as early as possible - prep to leave the night before as much as possible each day. That way you'll have the option to stop more if you need to as the day progresses - and you would be done before the hottest part of the day. Good luck.

there's nothing badass about it, i ride fixed. i do it for the enjoyment of riding. i switched to fixie because i got tired of riding a mountain bike around town, and when i took my first ride the only thing i heard was the tires on the road and the wind in my ears. i think a long distance ride on it would be great.

basically the lure to fixie was that it made me feel like i was 6 years old again riding a bike, its fun.

the terrain i'll be riding on is quite flat, with a few long rolling hills. since i'll be travelling east, i won't have to worry about a headwind.

i agree with starting out as early as possible to avoid the heat of the afternoon. i've been training since december for this and i think it would be awesome to do it in one day, but i'm preparing for two. there's a chance i'll push myself to see how quickly i can get to Winnipeg.

I have a BOB and panniers - the panniers are way better for daily riding, commuting to work, store, beer runs, etc - because of the awkwardness of the BOB. The BOB is way better for what your doing. In my experience I can maintain higher speeds with the BOB - especially if there is a head wind. Also, the BOB is awesome off road. One tip I'll give is try to start each day as early as possible - prep to leave the night before as much as possible each day. That way you'll have the option to stop more if you need to as the day progresses - and you would be done before the hottest part of the day. Good luck.

Thank you for that! I just have not been able to find knowledge of panniers and a Bob wrapped up in one person! I also am interested in mountain biking with it, I have a Cannondale Team Scalpel with all carbon rear end so I'm not sure if it's capable of pulling a Bob. (my next choice would be the minimalist approach with backpack, I hate that when you start to sweat with a big pack on though).
Anyways, do you think it's a good idea that I got a 90-psi Bob tire? (OEM one becomes a spare). And yeah, leaving way early each day is our plan. Re: temps....there is a big difference between mid June and mid July in that area, it may bust 95 but unlikely higher than that as we travel eastbound.
One more REALLY important thing sscyco, did you ever weigh your trailer/cargo combo? Is my ceiling of 45 pounds reasonable? Thanks for any input on that. Raydog

For the road the HP tire is fine - may not be a huge benefit (for only 45#), but would not hurt. The stock tire is crap (for reliability) - so OK as a spare.

I used it with a 22 pound litespeed - loaded about the same as your limit (carried all the gear for me and a friend - including a 1/2 rack for an over nighter). I also have maxed it out at over 75 lbs total (on a 30# all mountain bike) when I carried all the gear for my family up to a fire lookout for a weekend. The rim of the BOB was destroyed on the way down - but that was me getting a little loose with a trailer on single track - my son who was behind me said it was in the air longer than it was on the ground - the entire run.

For the road the HP tire is fine - may not be a huge benefit (for only 45#), but would not hurt. The stock tire is crap (for reliability) - so OK as a spare.

I used it with a 22 pound litespeed - loaded about the same as your limit (carried all the gear for me and a friend - including a 1/2 rack for an over nighter). I also have maxed it out at over 75 lbs total (on a 30# all mountain bike) when I carried all the gear for my family up to a fire lookout for a weekend. The rim of the BOB was destroyed on the way down - but that was me getting a little loose with a trailer on single track - my son who was behind me said it was in the air longer than it was on the ground - the entire run.

Thank for your input....BTW, I probably won't be doing any single track downhill runs like that!

I've done quite a few 8-12 day tours where I average ~100/day. One thing I've learned is to put an shorter day (40-60 miles) in the schedule - usually around day 4. Even if I've gotten a lot of miles in before the tour, I find that I have trouble sitting on the saddle after the first fiew days. The pressure just gets to me and I need a short day. After that, I'm usually fine.

I've done quite a few 8-12 day tours where I average ~100/day. One thing I've learned is to put an shorter day (40-60 miles) in the schedule - usually around day 4. Even if I've gotten a lot of miles in before the tour, I find that I have trouble sitting on the saddle after the first fiew days. The pressure just gets to me and I need a short day. After that, I'm usually fine.

Thanks for that advice, one major beni of having full camping gear is I can create a resting place I choose instead of being a slave to, "where's the next motel?" Clearly I'll appreciate the motel nights but won't have to have one every night. I like to have the route planned but leave the accomodations part open ended! Raydog