Training & Nutrition - Heavy aching legs

Anyone else suffered this?

What causes it?

Some information: I felt it come on about 24 weeks ago, it was only noticeable when carrying my bike upstairs after a long ride, but it progressed to the point where walking upstairs on my rest days was tougher. They'd start to ache 3/4 of the way up, then 1/2 the way up.

Then I got an injury (knee tendons), 19 weeks ago. I immediately rested, probably too much. No exercise until 2 weeks ago when I started short gentle rides around the block (the whole time I've been stretching and massaging). The heaviness and weakness has not let up though, sometimes I think It's getting worse. It's difficult to describe, kind of like a burning/aching within the muscles whenever I use them, quads, hams and calves, both sides. Now it's at the stage where even standing causes them to ache, and just one step of the stairs is tough. I've moved to a bedroom on the groundfloor so I don't have to use them so often.

If you have any ideas please share. This has been going on too long.

Thanks.

Another thing.. all blood tests came back negative, but my doctor sais I have a mild case of Raynaud's syndrome. Could poor circulation be the cause?

What causes Heavy legs?

In your case, it sounds like too much volume, too soon. It sounds like you need to develop/adapt your body & its muscles more slowly to the stress placed upon them.
I immediately rested, probably too much.

To prevent the feeling of heavy legs, you must increase your mileage only at a pace your body is comfortable with, become more flexible to relieve stress from your muscles and joints and promote recovery.

"After a long ride", then walking upstairs, would make even the accomplished cyclist's legs ache.

You just need to tough it out & hang in there, good diet, good sleep, continue with the cycling, I think some lowerbody weight training wouldn't hurt & hopefully your body will adapt.

I have Raynauds. It affects my hands & feet (extremities) especially in colder conditions but its never affected my legs.

Naw, not normal, enfilade. You must have some sort of metabolic thing going on that the docs can't find. A similar thing happened to a friend of mine. The docs took muscle biopsies but still couldn't find the cause. It's gradually gotten better for her over the past couple of years.

Do not train harder or lift weights! My only suggestion I've made before, which is to take a total of about 60g of whey protein/day and see if that helps, while continuing to only ride slowly around the block. Just do it, and report back after a couple of weeks.

1) Get tested for MS.

2) Get someone at an LBS to check your fit on your bicycle. You could also post a pic of yourself on your bicycle here.

3) Post a chart of the exercise you've done in the past two weeks.

4) Ease up on all the stretching and massaging. How many times a day do you stretch/massage your legs?

5) Do not get into weightlifting now. You may get into that later, but only under the supervision of a qualified trainer because, from previous posts, you don't know what you're doing and will hurt yourself.

Cheers for the replies. I will up the protein intake.
Here's a chart of my ride distances:

31 Jan - 0.8M
01 Feb - 1.2M
02 Feb - 1.8M
03 Feb - -----
04 Feb - 1.1M
05 Feb - 1.2M
06 Feb - 0.4M
07 Feb - -----
08 Feb - 0.8M
09 Feb - 1.8M
10 Feb - 0.5M
11 Feb - 0.7M

(The one mile and above days were split into two or three rides. I started recording them on the 31st but began riding a week or so earlier).



I'm going to start walking more and cycling less now, as my upper back muscles are killing me. I even bought the Backnobber today, in the hope of releasing some trigger points, but no luck so far. I can't see how anyone finds these 'tender spots'. Spending two to four hours a day on cycling, stretching and massaging. Most of that on gentle massaging, using the Stick, a tennis ball, or my hands. I stretch my quads and calves after the short rides around the block, and do several other light stretches throughout the day.

I'll see my doctor again tomorrow and ask for a brain scan, though there's a good chance he won't order one.. a couple of months ago he told me I didn't have MS. I know it's not diagnosed in the GPs office though :rolleyes:

I'm getting a lot of panic attacks/depression at the moment.. racing heartbeat, chest tension, etc. My doctor thinks that's what's causing all the other symptoms. It's got me thinking about how much control the mind has over the body. Starting to think it's a lot more than we realize.

Spending two to four hours a day on cycling, stretching and massaging. Most of that on gentle massaging

2-4 hours a day??? Not one of your rides is more than 1.8 miles which shouldn't have taken you more than 15 minutes. So you're spending almost 2-4 hours a day stretching and massaging your legs??

If I did that for 2-4 hours a day, I'd have sore legs too!! And I suspect you might not know what you're doing when it comes to stretching and massage either if your upper back muscles are killing you and yet you can't find tender spots on your back. I can run my fingers lightly down someone's back, and if there's a tight spot, it's obvious. Incorrect stretching can lead to all sorts of problems.

-- Go for your rides, add in a little bit of walking, but stop with all that stretching and massaging with the exception of some light stretching right after your ride or walk.

-- Go to a physiotherapist and learn how to do stretching etc. properly. Or ... take up yoga.

-- Go take a class on something that interests you, take up knitting if that's something that has always appealed to you, build model trains, learn how to play an instrument ... do something other than sitting there and thinking about how your legs hurt.

Enfilade,

Were you at all out of breath when you initially began experiencing these heavy/sore legs during the stair climb? Also....I assume you cycled more than a mile or two per day back in the days before you tweaked your knee. What sort of distances were you accustomed to riding?

I ask because it sounds to me like you may not have been in good enough shape to carry a bike up a flight of stairs after a ride every day. Just a hunch, but...the one or two mile rides during your rehab sort of indicates that you are not....all that fit. And, doing anything everyday (especially cycling and then carrying said cycle up a flight of stairs) is not easy on the body. You must be at a certain level of condition to continue. It sounds to me like you just ran out of gas.

FYI: I walked 6-7 miles per day on crutches while rehabbing my broken leg. After getting off the sticks, I then walked about twenty miles a day, up and down hills, to further recondition that bad leg and the rest of me. But...you know what?

Even though i am in pretty darn good shape right now, my freaking legs would still get tired (feel heavy) if I rode my bike all the way into work and then carried that sucker up a flight of stairs.

I agree with Machka, don't sweat it...just ride.

Yeah, I wasn't conditioned to carry the bike up the stairs after a ride. I was very naive about it, and never even thought about the strain on my body until it was too late. Because I'm slim and I've spent my whole life playing all sorts of sports I figured I was fit enough to just get on the bike and go. I started with 15 mile rides! (Just to point out I wasn't riding every day. Usually did two or three rides a week) I'd ache afterwards but would heal well and be ready for another ride several days later. I adapted to that quite well over the following weeks, but I upped the mileage way too soon, doing tough 30 to 40 mile rides not long after the 15 miler. Then I'd notice my legs would start to ache bad during the hilly sections of these rides, and my average speed had dropped, but I didn't read too much into it. I just pressed on. My quads would ache on these rides, but I'd get home and lug the bike upstairs each time.

Like you say, I'll go very easy for atleast the rest of this year. I'll walk more and do low resistance cycling, and hope this improves with a bit of time.

Usually did two or three rides a week) I'd ache afterwards but would heal well and be ready for another ride several days later. I adapted to that quite well over the following weeks, but I upped the mileage way too soon, doing tough 30 to 40 mile rides not long after the 15 miler. Then I'd notice my legs would start to ache bad during the hilly sections of these rides, and my average speed had dropped, but I didn't read too much into it. I just pressed on. My quads would ache on these rides, but I'd get home and lug the bike upstairs each time.


Well that is obvious man. Of course your going to ache, we all ache... Its about adapting to the stress.

I'm sure your having a laugh with us. If not, I apologize. Could be something you consume before riding?. Milk for instance. Still a believer it causes cancer. I don't think a lot people respect what we consume can really end up kickin us in the a$$.

what do you weigh?

I thought Raynaud's only affected exterimities like fingers and toes ...

what do you weigh?

I thought Raynaud's only affected exterimities like fingers and toes

I'm skinny (5'10" - 125lbs). My doctor sais that can be a factor in Raynauds.

It affects fingers and toes more than anything else, but really, if you have it in your toes you're likely to have poor circulation in your feet and lower legs as well. I'm taking Nifedipine at the moment, a drug that opens up the blood vessels. It really helps circulation, makes the cheeks bright red.


Well that is obvious man. Of course your going to ache, we all ache... Its about adapting to the stress.

I'm sure your having a laugh with us. If not, I apologize. Could be something you consume before riding?. Milk for instance. Still a believer it causes cancer. I don't think a lot people respect what we consume can really end up kickin us in the a$$.

I agree, but then again anything causes cancer. Sitting at a desk 8 hours a day, or using a mobile phone, could be the trigger. About the cycling, I did do too much for my body to adapt. Built it up too fast. I hope it's still fixable.

the best remedy for cycling soreness is walking

I started with 15 mile rides! (Just to point out I wasn't riding every day. Usually did two or three rides a week) I'd ache afterwards but would heal well and be ready for another ride several days later. I adapted to that quite well over the following weeks, but I upped the mileage way too soon, doing tough 30 to 40 mile rides not long after the 15 miler. Then I'd notice my legs would start to ache bad during the hilly sections of these rides, and my average speed had dropped, but I didn't read too much into it. I just pressed on. My quads would ache on these rides, but I'd get home and lug the bike upstairs each time.


Allow me to add something to your story here for reference purposes .... according to another thread, you think 70 rpm is spinning. 70 rpm is NOT spinning, it's mashing. But I hate to think what you must have been doing if you think 70 rpm is spinning!!! No wonder your legs are in trouble. You must have been riding in the hardest gear you've got at what ... 40 rpm????

I do hope that when you go out on your rides now you've figured out how to use the shifters and are working moving your legs at least 80 rpm ... preferably more.

Trying to keep my cadence over 70rpm at all times. Spinning feels so much better.. and I haven't even attached my clipless pedals yet

I didn't mean 70 rpm is spinning. I'm keeping it above 70 at all times, which is a big step up from what I was doing. I can hold it around 80-95, if I concentrate. That'll become more natural with practice.

40 rpm sounds about right for before. I'm sure that was a factor in my injury, but the steep hills, heavy bike and platform pedals all contributed.






You must have been riding in the hardest gear you've got at what ... 40 rpm????

I'd start the hills in first gear (and with a low cadence for first gear as I wasn't spinning). I'd get tired out halfway up... switch to the third or fourth gear (depending on the gradient) and stand up on the pedals. That felt a lot easier on the legs, like I was working different muscles. If the hill was very long I'd alternate between the first and the fourth gear.. sitting and standing. It felt like the best way at the time.

I only ever used 27th gear on the steep downhills, when I was trying to break my speed record :lol:

Proper bike jargon lesson: don't refer to gears by number. Say how many teeth. So you might say, "I started my climb in my 42 X 21, but by the time I reached the top I was down to my 30 X 23." The first number is the number of teeth on the front ring, called the "chainring," and the second number is the number of teeth on the rear ring, called a "cog." If you don't know how many teeth, get down on your sore knees and count them, noting the numbers on a piece of paper. Memorize them.

An old school thing was create a table showing the "gear-inches" for every gear combination, laminate it and afix it to one's stem. Then one could see what the gear combination for the next gear up or down would be. With the advent of 8, 9, and 10 speed cassettes, this is no longer important. One calculates gear-inches by dividing the number of teeth on a cog into the number of teeth on a chainring and multiplying by the nominal wheel diameter, 27" for a road bike, 26" for MTB.

It's a good idea to create a spreadsheet with this information and study it a bit. It will give you some insight into possible gear combinations and keep you off your bike for a bit. Normally one does not "cross-chain," meaning to run in the big ring and a big cog, or in the granny ring and a small cog. This is thought to increase chain and tooth wear.

And do concentrate! Keep those rpms up around 90 on the flat and 80 climbing. While you're doing that, concentrate on form. Back straight, elbows in, head up, shoulders dropped, knees directly over pedals, no upper body movement. Breathe conciously and deeply while climbing, all the way to the bottom by expanding your belly first, then your chest. Keep your throat and mouth open while breathing deeply.

Proper bike jargon lesson: don't refer to gears by number. Say how many teeth. So you might say, "I started my climb in my 42 X 21, but by the time I reached the top I was down to my 30 X 23." The first number is the number of teeth on the front ring, called the "chainring," and the second number is the number of teeth on the rear ring, called a "cog." If you don't know how many teeth, get down on your sore knees and count them, noting the numbers on a piece of paper. Memorize them.


The knees are too frail for me to count the teeth at the moment, but I will make a chart before beginning longer distance riding.

This is more of a Bicycle Mechanics question.. but saying my two lowest gears were 30 X 25, and 30 X 27, (it's a standard MTB drivetrain - FSA 27 speed), could I fit a new cassette with a bigger first gear, so it was more like 30 X 25, and 30 X 29... or even 30 X 31?

On my first bike, a �130 Haro Vector, the difference in the size of the biggest cog and the second biggest cog was huge.. noticeably larger than on a standard cassette. It was brilliant for climbing steep hills. I'd like to have that setup on my current bike, but I don't know if it's feasible, with the cables and rear derailleur, etc, etc..

Here's my current bike:

http://www.sunsetmtb.co.uk/shop/index.php?product_id=1105&category_id=79

Would be a big help if you could tell me how get that bigger gear.

Cheers.



Edit: That's supposed to be 130 pounds. Don't know why it came out like that.

<snip>
This is more of a Bicycle Mechanics question.. but saying my two lowest gears were 30 X 25, and 30 X 27, (it's a standard MTB drivetrain - FSA 27 speed), could I fit a new cassette with a bigger first gear, so it was more like 30 X 25, and 30 X 29... or even 30 X 31?
<snip>
The specs on that bike say 44/32/22 up front with an 11-32 cassette. Better count those teeth. If this is your setup, you should be able to climb walls with that bike, while pulling a trailer. That would be a low gear of 18 gear-inches. Most road riders have no need of a gear below 30 gear inches, and even heavy tandems and loaded tourers seldom go below 20 gear-inches.

Ok, that's probably what I had on my old Haro then, 22 X 32, it just felt like a lower gear because the difference between 1st and 2nd cog was so big - It was only an 18 or 21 speed bike.

Still, if 22 X 32 is what I have on my Kona, I do struggle to climb hill after hill, on a long ride. I'll see how much easier it becomes once I've attached the SPDs..

Yeah, repeating climbs is a combination of strength and fitness. Strength is how you get up one climb. Fitness is how you do climb after climb. Basically, fitness means you can recover between climbs, with the second often being faster than the first. I don't really know how this works, but my experience is that riding frequently (every day) forces the body to recover between those daily rides, and somehow that causes a training adaptation that allows the body also to recover between climbs. So keep up those short, daily, easy rides. Don't go for the gusto just because you start to feel a little better. At first, gradually increase the length of all your rides. And take that whey protein.

And like Machka says, cut it out with all the stretching and massaging. Leave 'em alone, or if you must, don't do it for more than 15 minutes.

Here is what you do: pedal at high rpm (85 to 100) for several hours almost everyday. Never force pedaling (mash), not even when climbing hills---not yet. Until you are fully conditioned, always spin fast with low reisitance.

Btw: you will be fully conditioned when your legs no longer feel heavy---ever!

Good luck.

Update:

31 Jan - 0.8M
01 Feb - 1.2M
02 Feb - 1.8M
03 Feb - -----
04 Feb - 1.1M
05 Feb - 1.2M
06 Feb - 0.4M
07 Feb - -----
08 Feb - 0.8M
09 Feb - 1.8M
10 Feb - 0.5M
11 Feb - 0.7M


12 Feb - -----
13 Feb - -----
14 Feb - 0.5M
15 Feb - -----
16 Feb - 0.6M
17 Feb - -----
18 Feb - -----
19 Feb - -----
20 Feb - 1.0M




Legs still ache, but they feel better after stretching. Today, I started with a slow spin around the block (0.5M). My legs ached bad, then I got back and stretched, and immediately went and did another half mile in a higher gear, with the same cadence. That was easier than the first lap. Ate 3 eggs afterwards for a protein boost, plus Vitamin B tablet, bread and an apple.

So should I carry on with this routine, or modify it? Are there any theories as to what causes aching legs?

Effort causes aching legs. How much effort depends on your strength and conditioning. If I went in and squatted a few sets with 200 lbs., I'd have aching legs before I was done, but a powerlifter would do that for warmup. We did 20 miles on our tandem yesterday evening, including a few full power intervals, and yup, I have aching legs today. But I wanted a few microtears.

In your case, it's just scaled down. 1/2 mile hurts. Try starting out much easier, so that it feels effortless, the pedals feeling light. After about 10 minutes of that, gradually increase force on the pedals. I'm not surprised that the second lap was easier than the first. I'd keep doing just that, but try to do it every day, and try to do the first lap with so little effort that it doesn't hurt. Now it may be that just moving your legs in circles is a considerable effort. I know that one legged pedaling on rollers, even in a tiny gear, will begin to hurt after a few minutes, so I sympathize. But try to keep the warmup effort down, anyway.

And eating what you did is a good plan. If you want a fun check, tape your belly and thigh every few days. You want the thigh measurement to go up, the belly not so much.

Thanks for the reply. Very helpful.
I'll do all that and post back in a couple of weeks.

Update:

21 Feb - Snow
22 Feb - Snow
23 Feb - Snow
24 Feb - Snow
25 Feb - Snow
26 Feb - 1.8 M
27 Feb - -----
28 Feb - 1.3 M

FEB TOTAL 16 MILES

01 Mar - 0.7 M
02 Mar - 1.6 M
03 Mar - -----
04 Mar - 4 Mile walk
05 Mar - -----
06 Mar - 3 Mile walk


I've not done any cycling for four days as my arms are sore, mainly the forearm extensors, but the whole thing feels weak. They haven't gained their original strength since I overused them on the foam roller, three months ago. And everything I do now.. playing keyboard, typing, juggling, drawing, massaging, tires them fairly quickly.

So instead I'll do short walks every few days until my arms feel stronger. I've ordered the trigger point therapy workbook off amazon so that'll arrive tomorrow and maybe I can get a more effective massage and work out those tender spots.

What's concerning me at the moment though is that my legs are still aching. I've done around 30 short rides over a 45 day period, I'm walking more, stretching daily, and getting plenty of protein. I thought they would've improved by now. Maybe it's time for me to start riding faster and including intervals? But then I'm worried my tendinitis will flare up again. The knee joint has improved somewhat but still feels weak and vulnerable to a repeat injury. Anyway I'll keep up the walks and hope for improvement.

Yes. It's normal; Almost after each and every hard ride. Especially when doing a lot of hard climbing...Nutrition might work. But, also quite helpful is the "Stick." It can really roll out the sore muscles in your legs.

I use the Stick, or a tennis ball or lacrosse ball to release the muscles. That's been useful but it doesn't stop them from aching. My diet's good at the moment, probably the best it's ever been, but still, I could be iron deficient as I gave up meat (exc. fish) about a year ago. I'll go talk to my doctor about it but if you have any ideas please let me know.

I'd be concerned, greatly, about why you are sore in your arms from what amounts to a few loops around the block on a bike. I would also be at the doctor's testing your blood for any deficiencies, as it makes no sense that you continue to have the heavy aching legs and yet you do some sort of physical activity nearly every day, it looks like. It honestly sounds like your body is short on something, and you are experiencing the fallout from that. However, that is just a guess, but I'd have your doc test your blood for any deficiencies (or toxicities) in metals and vitamins.

Another thing.. all blood tests came back negative, but my doctor sais I have a mild case of Raynaud's syndrome. Could poor circulation be the cause?

I doubt it's related, I have Raynaud's also and never had problems like that except when I was way overtrained.

Please get properly fitted for your bike. Betting that the seat isn't high enough and you are stomping on the pedals (no clipless) and the stem is too short causing you to not be fully extended. The pressure on your arms indicates that your center of gravity isn't correct and too far out from where is should be.

New riders often ride without being properly fit.
Cycling should never hurt like that.

I doubt it's related, I have Raynaud's also and never had problems like that except when I was way overtrained.

Me too, I have Raynauds. I know that living in CA should certainly benefit you, more than someone living in a much colder climate. Its affects extremities more than legs. "When I'm done" its probable I will move out to CA, Latigo Canyon being a preference just because of my Raynauds & being able to control it better.

Ironically it's usually only an issue when the temps are cool but not cold. 50s and 60s confuse my body and the circulation in my fingers shut down but the rest of my body is fine. Colder than that I generally don't have any issues, although probably because I usually just wear gloves.

In my case, the further the temperature drops, the worsen my symptoms become. I get significant chilblain's. The only cure for me would be living in Palm Springs full time. But yeah, I have it bad but it doesn't affect my legs, just fingers, toes & possibly nose?.

Exercise helps a lot, the increased blood circulation.

Thanks for your replies. I'll keep up with my routine and post any changes. Bike fit is ok, maybe not great, but I will have that looked at before I start doing longer rides. I think I'm too stretched out at the minute, which could be what's causing the arm and shoulder pain. The solution, I'm told, would be to stretch the back and glutes and lean forward a bit more. I'll work on doing that. In the mean time I have a shorter stem I could attach. Does that sound like a good idea or would I just be referring the strain to another area?

It doesn't sound to me as if you are doing enough exercise to really wipe out your endurance like you are describing. I didn't see where you mentioned how old you are, but depending on your doctor and the protocols that your doctor is required to follow, not all relevant blood tests may have been run. Thyroid disease, for example, is supposed to be rare among men under 50 so some younger men have difficulty getting doctors to order blood tests for thyroid disease even though the symptoms would get a screening for thyroid disease moved up to the top of the list if the man was over 50. Undiagnosed Lyme disease can cause a bunch of similar symptoms also. If there's no possibility of exposure, then cross that one off. MS, as I understand, can only be positively diagnosed by MRI, and can be positively eliminated as a cause as well.

Think very hard about any other mental or physical changes that you have undergone in the last year or so. Are you more susceptible to cold? Is there anything about your memory or concentration? How about joint pain/stiffness? Susceptibility to depression can be caused by endocrine imbalances, too .Write down everything you can think if that has changed, even if you don't think it's important, and talk the list over with your doctor.

Sometimes a person can have some ailment like this and it will go away spontaneously and a cause is never found. So far, it doesn't appear as though you're that lucky. If you suspect a nutrition problem, or suspect that you might be able to fix the problem through changes in diet / supplements, talk that over with your doctor. If your doctor seems to be at a loss to help you, get another doctor. But remember, this is probably a medical condition that needs to be rectified and it could be very serious.

Just got back from my first physio session for seven weeks. It was with a new therapist as the old one had left.

This new one seems very good. She gave me deep massages on both calves and said I should do the same at home too. It was incredibly painful, one of the most painful experiences I've had, but I feel a little better for it. She couldn't believe how tight they were.. compared the muscle fibres to cheese wire :lol: I can actually feel a huge knot in there as well, must be 10-20 mm in diameter.

Anyway she said she'll be doing more deep massage at the next session, which will be in three weeks. I hope this will return to 100%.

Update:

Day after tomorrow it'll be 6 months since the pain started. I'm still very weak at the moment and unsure what the cause of the problem is.

I had my second professional massage today. It felt good at the time, but my legs still ache when I walk or climb stairs. They feel quite heavy and weak now, as if I'm just coming to the end of a long distance walk, you know, when they start feeling like lead. I'll have atleast a few more massage sessions though to see whether I regain any strength.

From what I've read, iron deficiency could also be a factor in this. I gave up meat one year ago and don't get much iron from other foods. My skin has been dry and pale and my circulation poor, and I've had a few other symptoms like fatigue. Bought some iron tablets the other day so I'll see if they make any difference.

There have been some improvements over the past few weeks though. I don't get pins and needles nearly as often now, and my calves have healed enough for me to walk properly again.


Last bike ride I did was on the 2nd of March as I've had some forearm pain, but I've made sure to walk atleast 1 mile a day when I'm not cycling. I've done a few 4 mile walks this month as well, up onto the moors. They've been quite taxing on my legs though, muscles and tendons, so I'll stay on flatter ground for the next few weeks.

Iron tablets may or may not help with iron deficiency. There's some problem with absorbing non-hemi iron, at least in some poeple. Though I would think a doctor would have caught that in any ordinary physical exam. If you gave up meat for philosophical reasons, you might try putting those beliefs aside for a bit and eat some liver. Just to see. I don't eat meat, either, and have no problem with iron, but that's me.

My doctor noticed a few things in the physical exam. The main thing he spotted was that my feet were cold and pale. They'd been like that for weeks. He diagnosed Raynauds and gave me some Nifedipine to widen the blood vessels. Still, I'd rather find out the root cause, as I haven't always had Raynauds, at least not as bad as it has been lately.

Which foods are high in Iron.. the type of Iron I may not be getting in the tablets? Cheers.

Had a professional massage today for the third week running. The legs are still weak and achy though, and I'm in my seventh month now.

I can still walk average distances though. Did a four mile walk on sunday, up onto the moors. It was tougher than it should have been, but it was great to get out and do something, and I may have been a fraction stronger than I was this time last week. It's hard to tell because progress is so slow, I just know they're not back to normal yet.

The reason I'm concerned is that it's taking so long while I'm only making small progress. I've had DOMS before, but this is different. It's not healing the same..

My massage guy said there's hundreds of things that cause these symptoms but in most cases, and this probably applies to me, the fascia between muscles sort of sticks together, meaning the muscle groups on either side have to work harder and will feel weaker.

I just think it's about time I was able to get out and do some proper rides, especially now summer's coming up :)

enfilade, Do you take antibiotics? Or over consume any food, such as a fruit or something high in sugar???...


Check the link below for Iron foods...

http://www.whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php

Nice link I'll have a browse through that. I get an average amount of sugar, plenty of fresh fruits, chocolate and honey. My diet's quite good, lots of whole grains and good sources of protien, and I take several supplements. Not on antibiotics or any other medication.

I get an average amount of sugar, plenty of fresh fruits, chocolate and honey.

You get an average amount of sugar but consume plenty of fresh fruits, chocolate and honey???... Thats sugar overdose. Fruit is pure sugar.

Its probably your downfall. My doctor associated high sugar with my Raynauds.

When I reduced excess sugar, my raynauds symptoms got much better.

Also, if you drink detox teas or teas promoting great health benefits, I'd cut them too. You could also have a thyroid issue. If you feel "spaced out" a lot of the time, I would say it was that.

Tons of sugar = No energy, with some people, your body is just going to rebel & go the other way.

Don't ever over consume any food, even foods in the Brassica oleracea family. These can bring on thyroid/fatigue issues like you wouldn't believe, over consuming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassica_oleracea

You get an average amount of sugar but consume plenty of fresh fruits, chocolate and honey???... Thats sugar overdose. Fruit is pure sugar.

Its probably your downfall. My doctor associated high sugar with my Raynauds.

When I reduced excess sugar, my raynauds symptoms got much better.

Also, if you drink detox teas or teas promoting great health benefits, I'd cut them too. You could also have a thyroid issue. If you feel "spaced out" a lot of the time, I would say it was that.

Tons of sugar = No energy, with some people, your body is just going to rebel & go the other way.

Don't ever over consume any food, even foods in the Brassica oleracea family. These can bring on thyroid/fatigue issues like you wouldn't believe, over consuming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassica_oleracea


That's interesting 'cos recently I've been feeling completely exhausted, sometimes to the point where even socializing isn't really possible. How will too much sugar affect the body like this?

I put an average amount of sugar because it's not a great deal more than what most people have, or what I've been used to over the past few years. Although I know not to use that as a guideline or indicator that I'm getting too much.

An average day's sugar intake would be:

Breakfast:

1 teaspoon honey in porridge
2 teaspoons demerera sugar in porridge
250ml innocent smoothie (made up entirely of blended fruit)

Rest of the day:

honey sandwich
apple
orange/plum/grapefruit whichever i have
sometimes a chocolate bar or a few biscuits

Of course there's sugar in my other meals as well but they're the only really sugary foods I eat on a daily basis. Does this seem like a lot? I don't drink tea or soft drinks when I'm at home, only water. If I'm out for the night though I'll have several cokes. I'd normally drink a lager but at the moment anything alcoholic irritates my quad tendons. They get inflamed whenever the blood flow increases, so I've also been showering in warm water to reduce the inflammation a little bit.

For the next few weeks though, I'll reduce my sugar intake wherever I can. I'll start with the honey sandwiches, biscuits and chocolate and see whether that affects anything.

I'd like it if the answer was something as 'simple' as diet, but the frustrating thing is I'm unlikely to ever find out what the cause is for me. If I do start to feel better it could be because of the ice massages, iron tablets, red meat, vitamin B tablets, stretching, trigger point therapy, more exercise, better sleep, yoga, etc, etc.

This doesn't sound normal at all, and i'm not sure if normal remedies (diet/exercise) will fix it...Does your body ache even after a few days of not exercising? If so then it's not the exercising causing the "soreness" the soreness would have to be a symptom of something else. Sounds more like chronic pain than just sore muscles, maybe arthritis, fibromyalgia?...i honestly would first find the root cause of the problem before rushing into any solutions, because the solutions could make things worse or just be a waste of time...it must be frustrating but keep looking for the cause and not just hoping random things will fix it

The basics are diet (eat healthy, well balanced meals getting your recommended vitamins/calories), exercise (find the right exercise for you for now, maybe swimming), and rest (get enough sleep and relax)...and these should all help with mental well being too if that's a cause...if you don't notice improvements then keep going to the doctors...i would be hesitant to jump on any medication until they can say exactly what the problem is and you verify via google

How many calories a day do you get? Your weight seems pretty low. What has your weight been over the past 5 years, relatively the same or has it fluctuated? Any multivitamin(s)?
How are you mentally/emotionally? Any major life event happen? (death, depression, illness, kids, family,suicide, laid off, stressed, over worked, hypochondriac, etc.)(Don't have to state here, just something to think about)

Good luck and keep us posted

Consuming sugar spikes your blood sugar level and then allows it to crash because sugar has no staying power. If you eat something like candy or a chocolate bar rather than something with complex carbs, protein, or fat, you can feel more hungry and tired than you would if you opted for something like a piece of cheese and a couple whole wheat crackers.

You are consuming quite a bit of sugar ... sugar and honey on your porridge, honey sandwich, chocolate bar or cookies, coke, and sugar in your other meals ...

I've discovered that I cannot eat a honey sandwich before going out on a ride and expect to get very far down the road. If I just eat the honey sandwich (and nothing else more substantial), I will bonk about 20 km down the road. I suspect it just spikes my blood sugar too fast and has absolutely no staying power.

I've also discovered that if I drink coke when I'm off the bicycle, I get all shaky and a bit dizzy ... again, too much sugar in a rush and then a drop of blood sugar.


Go with more whole grains (complex carbs), nuts, cheese, meat and less of the simple sugars.

Cheers for the replies.
I'll make a few changes and post back soon.
Do you know any alternatives to soft drinks at a bar when I'm not drinking alcohol? I think I'll have a hard time finding something with no alcohol and little sugar. Maybe diet coke?

+1 to Machka....

Enf, your diet is terrible.

I too am mostly vegan, but I do not touch the garbage you mention eating---My gawd! You refuse to eat meat, but then you munch on cookies, candy bars, and dump sugar and honey on your porridge. What are you 5?

Read up on nutrition. Quit eating junkfood. Start eating unprocessed fruits and vegetables---eat them as they are when they get harvested, preferably raw. Also, eat some real protien. Get it from soy or beans or eat nuts until you explode, I don't care, but get some protein.

I have not read this thread in months. But, I see your condition has not improved, and may have even gotten worse. I seriously suggest changing your diet asap!

I'd normally drink a lager but at the moment anything alcoholic irritates my quad tendons.

Which tells you everything you need to about what is causing your bad health, your consumptions of foods & drinks.

Honey sandwiches, biscuits, chocolate, sugar and honey on your porridge, several cokes, lager... It sounds like your addicted to sugar.

Sugar The Bitter Truth (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?616321-Sugar-The-Bitter-Truth)

Just a single chocolate bar could sway your health & body to rebel. Most of the sugary foods & drinks in your diet need to be eliminated???... (for exceptional health). If I consumed that much (sugar) per day, my raynauds would explode & my thyroid, skin issues would return. You must crash & burn man.

Ice massages, iron tablets, red meat, vitamin B tablets, stretching, trigger point therapy, more exercise, better sleep, yoga won't come close to curing you.

Cheers for the replies.
I'll make a few changes and post back soon.
Do you know any alternatives to soft drinks at a bar when I'm not drinking alcohol? I think I'll have a hard time finding something with no alcohol and little sugar. Maybe diet coke?

Ease up on the bar visits ... but if you go, choose water, black coffee, black tea, diet soft drinks, or 100% fruit drinks (not flavoured sugar water).

Here ... read ...
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/food-guide-aliment/index-eng.php