"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Crit Traiing Question

A little background: Former collegiate cross-country and 800 meter runner. Currently run local 5k and 10k.

I've been riding off and on since May of 2009. I thought to myself that cross country racing is very similar to crit racing. I bought and built some bikes hoping to start racing but other commitments stopped me. So here I am in 2010 and I've finally got my schedules set to start planning some races. My first race is in March.

I'm into the 3rd week of Carmichael's Time Crunched training plan. I've tested using both the cts plan and the 20 min test. I'm currently using HR and plan to upgrade to power as a gift to myself if I can get out of the 5's fast.

My problem is I'm finding the workouts very easy. I'm used to mile and quarter repeats with 1 min RBI or shorter. So, I'm finding the RBI and and RBS that CTS sets too long. Also, 3 rest days seem excessive to me if I want to be competitive. After the first week I augmented the training plan by riding easy EM (I guess that would be Z1 or Z2 to those not on the plan) for 60-90 min using Mon. as a rest day.

But what do I know? I'm a runner trying to be a cyclist. Do I just trust the CTS system and finish the 11 week program or is it okay to switch things up a bit. I feel like i know my body well enough, but like i said earlier I'm new to cycling.

Any training advice would be much appreciated. Cheers

Local group rides? Most of "mastering" Cat 5s and 4s has little to do with training, a lot to do with skills within a group of cyclists. Kinda like Botto's "how to race" list of things to do in the sticky.

I don't know the Time Crunched program but I have a few of the regular CTS training DVD/tapes. They work based on your current fitness level, based on a test you perform before you start the training. Therefore a physiologically fit rider works at a much harder rate than a less-fit person. Apparently the goal is to not be able to finish the tape consistently no matter what level you compete at, whether national or Cat "6". If you can get your hands on one of them that might be more interesting to you.

Be careful not to fall into the trap where you correlate potential performance with relative physical fitness. Cycling rewards crafty riders who are above the FTP cusp of a given race. Or, in other words, lazy sons o'beeatches who sit on wheels all day and come around you in the sprint. Being physically fit is worth only what it takes to finish a race. To do more than just finish takes group riding skills, understanding of tactics, etc, all having to do with how a group interacts with itself.

You are probably more fit than the average Cat 5. The fitness won't be the problem.

cdr

If you can't get your bike through a turn elbow-to-elbow with other riders safely and efficiently, your numbers mean nothing.

Spend more time on the bike riding through corners.

PM me. My boys are in SA.

you can get out of cat 5 as soon as you do 10 races, so that can be accomplished "fast"

if you dont believe the training program you've decided to follow is enough, then train more.

read event services post, then put it to practice

Personally, I'd stick with it through your first race. And use the rest days for skills practice like cornering, riding a straight line while taking a drink, putting on a vest, etc.

You're doing a program for the time crunched and you're complaining about 3 off days?

Why didn't you just find a program that worked for your schedule or get a coach?

I'm anxious to hear how a 5k running race is "very similar" to a criterium.

I'm anxious to hear how a 5k running race is "very similar" to a criterium.

Where is it in my op that I said "5k running was similar to a crit? I said cross country racing is. If you've never done it, it is a mass start race with a staggering amounts of surges/moves over LT in order to "break" your comp before you "break" yourself. In fact I would wager that it's actually harder than a crit because there is no letting up, no soft pedaling, and no big group to hide in. Why so much animosity in this forum?

Where is it in my op that I said "5k running was similar to a crit? I said cross country racing is. If you've never done it, it is a mass start race with a staggering amounts of surges/moves over LT in order to "break" your comp before you "break" yourself. In fact I would wager that it's actually harder than a crit because there is no letting up, no soft pedaling, and no big group to hide in. Why so much animosity in this forum? The small p*n*s syndrome runs deep here I see.

That's okay. We won't hold it against you.

My problem is I'm finding the workouts very easy. I'm used to mile and quarter repeats with 1 min RBI or shorter. So, I'm finding the RBI and and RBS that CTS sets too long.

I am not familiar with your program so I don't know what RBI and RBS are, but if you are finding the workout too easy then you aren't going hard enough.

Where is it in my op that I said "5k running was similar to a crit? I said cross country racing is. If you've never done it, it is a mass start race with a staggering amounts of surges/moves over LT in order to "break" your comp before you "break" yourself. In fact I would wager that it's actually harder than a crit because there is no letting up, no soft pedaling, and no big group to hide in. Why so much animosity in this forum?

You are overreacting.

There is no animosity.

Some very accomplished racers answered your question and offered you some useful information. Just because someone questioned your contention (based on an assumption) that one kind of racing equals the other does not mean animosity. If you want to get serious answers from people here, then I suggest changing the attitude.

Where is it in my op that I said "5k running was similar to a crit? I said cross country racing is. If you've never done it, it is a mass start race with a staggering amounts of surges/moves over LT in order to "break" your comp before you "break" yourself. In fact I would wager that it's actually harder than a crit because there is no letting up, no soft pedaling, and no big group to hide in.

You think wrong. It doesn't matter cross country running is "harder" than a crit because there is no big group to hide in, that's how a crit works and you have to understand and deal with that to race one effectively.


Why so much animosity in this forum?

If one were to go back and evaluate why some posts get favorable answers and others get less favorable responses, it would be pretty obvious that it is the attitude of the poster. Coming in and presuming that you already know things that you clearly do not know does not get you very far.

I would also like point out that the responses that you got are not as bad as you are making it out to be, and a few were from some of the most respected members of this forum, as well as in "real life".

If you are time crunched, then the intensity of your workouts needs to be high (except recovery rides). If they feel too easy they most likely are.

Some very accomplished racers answered your question and offered you some useful information. Just because someone questioned your contention (based on an assumption) that one kind of racing equals the other does not mean animosity. If you want to get serious answers from people here, then I suggest changing the attitude.

Interesting that we typed very similar responses at the same time ;)

In fact I would wager that it's actually harder than a crit because there is no letting up, no soft pedaling, and no big group to hide in.

You would wager based on what? You might be right, but I've never run a cross country race and you've never ridden a crit.

No animosity, just some people questioning your interesting mix of ignorance and assumed expertise.

Oh, and I've run cross country. Did that among other competitive activities before I picked up cycling. None of the tactical strategies involved with xc are at all applicable in crit racing. At least not if you want to win.

I look forward to hearing about your first race. I'm especially interested if you still think a crit...although it is only a cat 5 crit...is not harder than a running race...albeit you made a distinction of a cross country race.
I ran for a long time, and still do. My pr for a 10k was 30:32 and I thought becoming a racer would be easy. I learned some valuable lessons regarding constant surges out of every damn corner while watching someone take a line away and/or block you out of a corner causing you to hit the brakes hard and start everyone behind you cursing...lol dems were the days.

Crit racing is all about position, holding position, constant sprints out of corners from a slow speed...every corner too sometimes lol...and holding enough reserve to sprint for the finish. Crits are a beautiful *****.

I wish you the best of luck...it is an awesome experience...
We may rip you here and there but it is paying your dues...nothing comes easy in bike racing one way or another.

Thanks for all the responses fellas! I didn't mean to offend anyone, if I did I apologize. I admit I did get a little sensitive when I felt the efforts in running races were looked down upon. We've all been there, whether it's cycling, running, or bowling. We defend those sports where we've put years and blood into. I forgot this is a cycling race forum first and foremost. I'm came to this forum to learn about the sport and the people who love it. So, please rest assured that the forum's first lesson for me has been taken to heart. Cheers.

Event, lay off the 5K's :lol: Made the jump myself, college CC to Cycling (with some time in between). Was #6 man on a Juco team with 2 all americans. Made it to Cat 2 on a bike. So my opinion that cycling is tougher comes from hard won experience. There is a lot more to train for, and the bike handling factor is huge. Compairing the two is difficult. Think the most tactical, surge filled race you've run and it's not even the average crit. I can't ever remember someone passing me like they were running 100M in a CC race, routine attack on a bike.

I'll wager that no matter how you train you'll have the air sucked out of your lungs 5 min in first time out. But we've all been there.

Thanks for all the responses fellas! I didn't mean to offend anyone, if I did I apologize. I admit I did get a little sensitive when I felt the efforts in running races were looked down upon. We've all been there, whether it's cycling, running, or bowling. We defend those sports where we've put years and blood into. I forgot this is a cycling race forum first and foremost. I'm came to this forum to learn about the sport and the people who love it. So, please rest assured that the forum's first lesson for me has been taken to heart. Cheers.

I don't think anyone was offended, it was all in your mind, that was the problem...

Also don't think anyone was looking down on running, just saying that they aren't the same thing.

I don't think anyone was offended, it was all in your mind, that was the problem...

Also don't think anyone was looking down on running, just saying that they aren't the same thing.

Point taken

Like others, I also ran xc albeit 25 years and 65 pound ago. Unless my memory is totally failing me, which is possible, crits are nothing like xc. A crit like xc race would be closer to 10k with 100 yard dashes every 45 seconds.

It's still a good place to start-unless you sit on a couch for 20 years before you start.

I don't think anyone was offended, it was all in your mind, that was the problem...

Also don't think anyone was looking down on running, just saying that they aren't the same thing.

+1. there are a lot of former track and cross guys on here. i ran track (slowly) for 9 years, and i can't think of anything that compares to a criterium in terms of physical exertion. the closest thing i can think of are blind fartleks. note: i am not saying that running is easier, just that they are inherently different. welcome to the board.

I've done crits and cross country....they are both very hard in a unique way. I'd say cc takes more fitness to be competitive (than a cat5 crit anyway) but a crit takes way more skill and strategy.

note: i am not saying that running is easier, just that they are inherently different. welcome to the board.

this

A crit like xc race would be closer to 10k with 100 yard dashes every 45 seconds.


You guys really need to move your placing up in the field.

guilty as charged.

hey OP, its funny how many people post comments in the same way one would lean over to a friend and whisper something far too loud to keep it a secret in order to get he goat of the speaker/another member of the group who will then begin an entertaining tangent. Everything here is instead spoken directly to you in black and white, though it was not really about you. ;)

Don't worry, its learning forum-speak.

BTW, since you're new, you should read EventService's book: LINK (http://www.amazon.com/Roadie-Misunderstood-World-Bike-Racer/dp/1934030171)

:)

Thank you for the endorsement.

I recommend Chapter 12.

Thank you for the endorsement.

I recommend Chapter 12.
It's a good book. Don't know if it'll really get you ready for racing, but it allows one to wallow in the scene; at least in your mind.

What's funny is that - I know I've this before - it's not written for cyclists. It's for their friends, coworkers, and family members who "don't get it".

Ideally, you'll have more than one of each to buy for.

Don't get too wrapped up in the whole racer's ego thing.

If you are a competitive XC runner, your fitness if already way above that of the average CatV racer. If you can go out and hammer on the local fast group rides you will be fine. Cat V crits are really no big deal if your fitness is good and you keep your head about you.

Do whatever it takes to stay in the top third, stay smooth, save your strength when you can and you'll be great.

The hard part of crit racing (as was pointed out earlier) is knowing how and when to be lazy and conserve your energy. That is a tactic that comes with time.

You will also know really quick if you are going to be a decent crit racer or a great crit racer really quick based on your ability to sprint. Some have it, some can train it and some just never will...

-Z

What's funny is that - I know I've this before - it's not written for cyclists. It's for their friends, coworkers, and family members who "don't get it".

Ideally, you'll have more than one of each to buy for.

milk it.

milk it.

I would if I could.

What's funny is that - I know I've this before - it's not written for cyclists. It's for their friends, coworkers, and family members who "don't get it".

Ideally, you'll have more than one of each to buy for.

Huh, all this time I was using it as a training manual. No wonder Im not getting any faster.

It's one of my favorite books to shoplift.

I've scanned it and made it available at Google Books. Cheaper than buying multiple copies for my friends and family. See it here (http://books.google.com/books?id=D3AEAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Frugal&ei=Qsd2S42IKaKMygSEwIi4BA&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

I've scanned it and made it available at Google Books. Cheaper than buying multiple copies for my friends and family. See it here (http://books.google.com/books?id=D3AEAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Frugal&ei=Qsd2S42IKaKMygSEwIi4BA&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

Thanks for that !! Lots of great stuff, such as this veiled reference to Pcad on page 89:

"The prevailing evil of the present day is extravagance. I know very well that the old are too prone to preach about modern degenracy, whether they have cause or not; but, laugh as we may at the sage advice of our fathers, it is too plain that our present expensive habit are productive of much domestic unhappines.."

I've scanned it and made it available at Google Books. Cheaper than buying multiple copies for my friends and family. See it here (http://books.google.com/books?id=D3AEAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Frugal&ei=Qsd2S42IKaKMygSEwIi4BA&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

Hey, you changed the illustrations. What's up with that, man?