Advocacy & Safety - Who says the Dutch can't VC?

So this weekend, I've done some driving around town on errands.

My city is home to the Olympic Oval and Holland House, home of the Dutch during the games.

During the games the Dutch have 400 dutch bikes brought over from the Netherlands that they use to get around town. The general public is welcome to use these bikes too.

While running these errands I've seen many of these bikes being used on the streets in perfect, vehicular fashion.

One thing that is particularly gratifying is remembering a number of letters to the editor in the local papers suggesting to ride bikes on these particular streets is suicidal and ridiculous.

The riders I've seen have done very well, and have received co-operative behavior from the drivers they've been sharing the road with.

:D

what is vc?.

what is vc?.

Vehicular Cycling. Nobody here agrees on what it actually means, but it generally involves bicycles and motor vehicles sharing roadways, without any bicycle-specific infrastructure like bike lanes--the idea is that you "drive" your bicycle like any other vehicle on the roadway.

... and despite many thinking the northern European safety record is due to separated facilities, many forget these riders still do interact with motorists on a regular basis, and know how to do it.

ok, well i would agree with all of your posts and cant see any argument starting here. your statements are not controversial. i think the dutch can vehicularly commute. i see no other questions to answer.

i mean vehicularly cycle.

... and despite many thinking the northern European safety record is due to separated facilities, many forget these riders still do interact with motorists on a regular basis, and know how to do it.

Don't forget that at least in Copenhagen, bicycle driving is taught in elementary school...

Here in the US, we get at best 6 weeks of drivers' ed.

While running these errands I've seen many of these bikes being used on the streets in perfect, vehicular fashion.
A highly-selected tiny subset of a large population is a poor way to prove anything! And, you probably haven't seem most of the 400!

... and despite many thinking the northern European safety record is due to separated facilities, many forget these riders still do interact with motorists on a regular basis, and know how to do it.

I wouldn't go too far. Some of them are alive only because the drivers are well trained.

As an aside, I'm wracking my brain to think of a four-lane road in Denmark where you can legally cycle on the pavement. Riding "vehicularly" is very rare on busy roads.

Don't forget that at least in Copenhagen, bicycle driving is taught in elementary school...


I wouldn't go too far. Some of them are alive only because the drivers are well trained...

I'm sure proper training from an early age improves the safety of all on the road.

What I'm finding interesting is how all our (not nearly as well trained) drivers are coping with these Dutch on bikes.

So far, so good. It'd be a great legacy to leave. Acceptance of people on bikes on these roads running errands.

It's also interesting how they are handling out helmet law. Most (not all) riders are using helmets that have been bought and kept with the bikes, but few have properly adjusted or even attached straps.

I also saw a woman riding with her child sitting astride the rear rack.

What I'm finding interesting is how all our (not nearly as well trained) drivers are coping with these Dutch on bikes.

There's definitely some truth to the VC gospel here. If they rode in bike lanes, and expected cars to yield on a right turn as in Holland, they would be unpleasantly surprised. Putting them in the street alleviates this.


I also saw a woman riding with her child sitting astride the rear rack.

Heh.

i saw a new rider come up with the idea of using a rear rack as a child seat on a foldeable bike at my bike shop. the worker recommended not doing it, but i expect she bought it and uses it as a spare seat anyway.



I also saw a woman riding with her child sitting astride the rear rack.

The riders I've seen have done very well, and have received co-operative behavior from the drivers they've been sharing the road with.


What makes you think the OV Fiets riders are Dutch? Did you talk to them?

If they were indeed Netherlanders, it would be a drastic departure from how they ride at home.
Nobody VCs here.

They're Dutch. I've seen locals on 'em too. It's a pretty stark contrast.

The locals wear their own helmets, ride on the sidewalk and aren't dressed in orange. The locals almost never ride in this area and I it's not like I haven't seen any locals on them. Just very few. I could confirm with officials after the games.

It'd be an interesting story to write for my paper because, as I stated earlier, the prevailing local opinion is to ride in this area would be impossible. For what it's worth, I don't hold this opinion, never have, so it'd be good to point out that it can be and has been done very well.

... and despite many thinking the northern European safety record is due to separated facilities, many forget these riders still do interact with motorists on a regular basis, and know how to do it.

And the flip-side to this is; ... and despite many thinking the northern European safety record is due to separated facilities, many forget these drivers still do interact with cyclists on a regular basis, and know how to do it.

Don't forget that at least in Copenhagen, bicycle driving is taught in elementary school...

Here in the US, we get at best 6 weeks of drivers' ed.

The Dutch also have cycling education. Does that stop them from riding like idiots during rush hour? Nope.

Here's an interesting YouTube video on the Dutch Bikes at the Vancouver 2010 Olympic Games.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyLzMpAm-rw

The Dutch also have cycling education. Does that stop them from riding like idiots during rush hour? Nope.

Hey, same as U.S. drivers... amazing.

Here's an interesting YouTube video on the Dutch Bikes at the Vancouver 2010 Olympic Games.

I saw that recently. It's an amalgam of a couple of other vids I posted on the Go Dutch Go Bike (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?621386-Go-Dutch-Go-Bike) thread I started before I started this one.

(love the helmet skirting comments)

Hey, same as U.S. drivers... amazing.

this thread is a circle jerk about cycling in the netherlands, not about driving in the US. duh.

actually, it's a circle jerk about some Dutch from the Netherlands riding their bikes in Richmond BC amongst drivers who haven't had this type of test before.

It's an interesting experiment considering all I've ever heard in Richmond over the last 30 years is that you could never do what the Dutch are now doing.

I saw that recently. It's an amalgam of a couple of other vids I posted on the Go Dutch Go Bike (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?621386-Go-Dutch-Go-Bike) thread I started before I started this one.

(love the helmet skirting comments)

Yeah interesting bit about the helmets... I can't help but notice that the Dutch don't even think about helmets... must be all that "dangerous" bike riding they do at home.

I can't help but wonder when Vancouver is going to issue mandatory helmet laws for pedestrians.

What in the heck is WRONG WITH THE STREETS in Richmond, BC, if public perception is bicyclists can't/shouldn't/crazy to ride there?????

your government should look to fix that part of the equation, or else cars will continue to rule those streets.

of course the dutch can ride bikes in the midst of motor vehicles.

There's nothing wrong with the streets in Richmond but there may have been something wrong with the perception of people who drove (and did not ride) on them. Maybe that's changing.

A lot of people here have the idea that the only way to ride a bike here is to do so only on "cycling facilities" yet are being shown by the Dutch that one can ride in the city quite well without them.

Interestingly, most motorists are doing quite well with these visitors, as I'm sure they would if the residents of this city would do the same.

Yeah interesting bit about the helmets... I can't help but notice that the Dutch don't even think about helmets... must be all that "dangerous" bike riding they do at home.

I can't help but wonder when Vancouver is going to issue mandatory helmet laws for pedestrians.

My feeling is that a number of people feel they made a mistake with this law and that's a big reason it's not being enforced. They do enforce it however, if there are a multitude of offences made that look like they may lead to a collision. (or for some reason pi** off a cop)

There were a couple of quips made by the Dutch about helmets, but at the same time, they're being very respectful of the laws here and don't want to rock the boat during their visit.

What in the heck is WRONG WITH THE STREETS in Richmond, BC, if public perception is bicyclists can't/shouldn't/crazy to ride there?????

your government should look to fix that part of the equation, or else cars will continue to rule those streets.

of course the dutch can ride bikes in the midst of motor vehicles.

if they do, they can get a ticket. duh.

if they do, they can get a ticket. duh.

:wtf:

An editorial in our local paper mentions we will be missing the Dutch on their bikes when the games are over.

We'll miss the Dutch (http://www2.canada.com/richmondnews/news/opinion/story.html?id=9ab30953-4b80-4343-92aa-e43432c131e3)

Richmond News
Published: Wednesday, February 24, 2010

In just a few days, the 2010 Winter Games will be nothing more than a pleasant hangover. It's going to seem awfully quiet when everyone leaves -- a bit like empty nest syndrome.
We are going to miss seeing so many people from around the world walking around our city. We are especially going to miss the Dutch.
It's amazing the way they fit in here. They made themselves right at home, and they made us feel right at home in Heineken House, which helped make Richmond an Olympic hot-spot.

Then, again, perhaps it's not surprising, considering what Richmond has in common with Holland. Like Richmondites, many Netherlanders live at sea level on flat land surrounded by dykes. Also, Richmond already has a rich Dutch heritage. Look in the phone book and you'll see a lot of Dutch names. We are both a nation of beer-drinkers, and we both love ice sports.

One thing our Dutch friends have taught us is that the best way to deal with gridlock is to leave your car at home and use a public transit system, that includes public bikes. Our city and transit officials should take a hard look at the Dutch system of rental bikes. People who rarely used public transit before have done so during the Winter Games. One legacy of the Games may be that many Lower Mainlanders will continue to use transit, and adopting the Dutch system of loaner bikes could help encourage them.

We're going to miss seeing our orange friends riding around on their big goofy bikes. In our experience, they're charming and friendly, and we hope they come back to visit us sometime.

What makes you think the OV Fiets riders are Dutch? Did you talk to them?


They're Dutch... it's not like I haven't seen any locals on them. Just very few. I could confirm with officials after the games.

I checked, and it looks like I was mistaken (unless there were some locals that used them "unofficially").

Turns out no locals could ride these bikes due to liability issues. All the riders were Dutch.

They did very well