Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - Late 1960s Carlton

Add popped up on local classified website:

http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/11290555

26" Carlton frame; Reynolds 531 Manganese/Moly tubing; Campag Record changers; Zeuss crankset; Titanium cluster (54:13); 1" alloy rims with Campag Wide Flange hubs & brakes; Suspension seat post; for touring or racing: immaculate, one-of-a-kind, hand-built in 70 or 71.
Serious offers only, please.

http://www.usedvictoria.com/photos/01/02/12775202.jpg
http://www.usedvictoria.com/photos/01/03/12775203.jpg
http://www.usedvictoria.com/photos/01/05/12775205.jpg
http://www.usedvictoria.com/photos/01/06/12775206.jpg

Firstly, I made an offer which was low but respectable as I can only assume, based on the ad, that the seller has some knowledge of what they are selling but is not an expert. The bike looks stock so the claim of a Ti cassette (not sure why the big gear ratio is relevant to that) is suspect.
The seller responded that my offer was ridiculous as they could get $2000 parted out, I think in the current market $1000 after fees is optimistic and if you payed yourself for the work involved you could easily take $200-300 of that estimate for time dismantling, photographing, listing and shipping so perhaps $700 is not a bad estimate of the value as it sits. However, I think the size hurts is and on a local listing $500 would be a more appropriate asking price. My offer was less than that, but not insultingly so, plus I was testing the waters to see if they countered so I could sus out what they thought they were going to get. I know I was dealing with an a$$ to begin with since the ad asks for offers so the response only put a reassured grin on my fact. Face it I just want the frame to use as my townie fixed gear... but it's even a tad on the large size..

What say ye? in terms of value? Am I way off?

edit just noticed it claims campagnolo brakes, but I assumed weinmann based on the lever hoods... that could add a little value... also wanted to say... a carlton is a production bicycle, definitely not one of a kind.

$500 is most reasonable, in my opinion. They'd never get $2,000 parted out, and they'll never get $1,000 for the whole thing either. Dare them to try it, they won't (and if they try it, they'll be in for a big fat disappointment).

Incidentally, I'd very much like to know why they have the rear cable TIE WRAPPED to the chainstay. That's quite suspect.

-Kurt

Suspension seat post? Zeuss, as in Dr. Zeuss? Clowns.

Suspension seat post? Zeuss, as in Dr. Zeuss? Clowns.

Did you get the seller's name?
Type it here.
http://cancantheclown.com/clownnames.html

I'm having fun with the seller:


Quite interested, can see it this week. Would $500 be acceptable?


the parts alone are worth three times that


With all due respect, I beg to differ:

Zeus crankset - eBay, sold $15.50:
http://cgi.ebay.com/USED-170-ZEUS-CRANK-SET-52-44_W0QQitemZ120525150787QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0fdbda43

Campagnolo Record rear derailer - eBay, sold $89.90:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1963-Campagnolo-Record-Rear-Derailleur-VGC_W0QQitemZ230434577891QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a6f89de3

Campagnolo Record front derailer - eBay, sold $24.99:
http://cgi.ebay.com/CAMPAGNOLO-Nuovo-Record-Front-Deraileur_W0QQitemZ280460292188QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item414cbc705c

High-flange Campagnolo hubs - eBay, sold $69.99:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-High-Flange-Campagnolo-Record-Hubset-Hub-36H_W0QQitemZ280461078688QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item414cc870a0

Weinmann NOS rim - eBay, sold $6.99:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Weinmann-27-X-1-1-4-Clincher-rim-36-holes-NOS-Belgium_W0QQitemZ220555677812QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item335a249074

Campagnolo Nuovo Record brake calipers - eBay, sold $51.25:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-CAMPAGNOLO-BRAKE-SET-EXCELLENT-USED_W0QQitemZ220553805628QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item335a07ff3c

Weinmann brake levers with Carlton hoods - eBay, unsold $19.99:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Weinmann-Brake-Levers-with-Carlton-Hoods_W0QQitemZ140379960221QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20af4c339d

Campagnolo shifter levers - eBay, sold $11.00:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Super-Nuovo-Record-Shifters-Shift-Levers_W0QQitemZ260549429228QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ca9f4c7ec

ATOM freewheel - eBay, sold $9.99:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-ATOM-FRENCH-FREEWHEEL-6-SPD-13-28T-GC-NR_W0QQitemZ260547313540QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ca9d47f84

GB stem - eBay, sold, $9.99:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-GB-Alloy-Road-Stem-70-mm-22-2-mm-Rare_W0QQitemZ130364695740QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1e5a5764bc

The total of the parts listed above come to $309.59. I could not locate a suitable bar nor saddle (cannot tell what it is from the photos; definitely not the Brooks Professional it would have come with) on eBay; let us say the bars would run about $20 or so, and the saddle, seeing that it is a generic padded replacement, $15. That would bring it up to $344.59; $350, essentially. $350 of components do not have a $1,500 value, let alone a value of $500.

If maximum profit is what you wish, I would indeed suggest you part it out - for its parted-out value with always exceed its whole - though I doubt that you'll get anywhere near the $1,500 you are hoping for, or even $500.

Incidentally, titanium freewheels were not invented until the 1980's.

-Kurt

You're just cruel. :D

You're just cruel. :D

"I know...and it makes me feel good all over." -Werner Klemperer as "Colonel Klink"

:p

-Kurt

Ah, great entertainment in this thread

Ah, great entertainment in this thread

It'll only be entertainment if the seller replies.

-Kurt

To be fair, and not that I am all about fair, the prices you shot him were in more than a few cases lower end. The first sold price I came across for the brakes was $82. Not to mention that your example was a recessed version and we know the nutted versions usually go for a bit more. The Carlton would have used nutted. (he said nutted... :) ) Campag large flange of the correct date, flat skewers, generally command more. But then the seller specified wide flange hubs. Those are indeed rare. :rolleyes:

Amazes me that someone goes to all the trouble to build a nice bike like that and then uses a tywrap.

To be fair, and not that I am all about fair, the prices you shot him were in more than a few cases lower end.

Of course - if he wishes to play 3 times over the maximum, I'll dig up the lowest prices possible ;)


Amazes me that someone goes to all the trouble to build a nice bike like that and then uses a tywrap.

I'm suspecting a possible broken braze-on.

P.S.: Latest reply:


new info posted in ad
may take highest reasonable offer



the parts alone are worth three times that


Sounds almost like a scammer.

-Kurt

Kurt, that is awesome. I love that you used specific examples to back up your claims while I just threw prices off the top of my head (which were way more generous). I'm glad you socked it too them as their replies speak volumes about their character.