Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - 46 & 30t super-compact crankset from Velo Orange

It's coming this summer: http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2010/02/grand-cru-crank.html

These are going on my wish list.

They also are planning on offering brazed, chromed stems. And they do all this for very reasonable prices. I hope he makes a fortune.

Wow. I was planning on a White Industries crank for the new build but this is just beautiful.

That is really sweet looking. I love VO stuff. Got to see a pair of the Diagonale/105 wheels last weekend at our spring Pop. and they're beautiful.

Another 46/30 option was also just announced, see here (http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2010/02/velo-orange-cranksets.html), but it is just a triple with a chainguard in the outer position. This can be done with any standard triple crankset, the only special thing is that the 46 tooth ring is shaped to be mounted in the middle position; most other rings of this size are made for the outer position, but TA does make middle rings with up to 46 teeth (and I have one :)). I'd really like to see the dedicated double 110/74 external bearing BB shown in this old post (http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2009/03/taipei-cycle-show-update-3.html) by Velo Orange. The last I heard was that Sugino wanted more money for it than VO thought they could sell it for, but I hope things change. I also haven't found this crankset mentioned by anyone other than VO.

Yes very nice! I am using a Compact Energy FSA 46-36. It works for me. However, I'd like to give this Velo Orange crankset a try.

With a crank that small, what do you intend to run for a cassette, 12-23?

It's pretty common for compact cranks to have a 34 inner chainring, so this is actually larger than that.

Funny that they stole TA's crankarm design and Stronglights logo.

It's pretty common for compact cranks to have a 34 inner chainring, so this is actually larger than that.

Funny that they stole TA's crankarm design and Stronglights logo.

34t is smaller than 30t?

reading comprehension problems strike again :)

Yes very nice! I am using a Compact Energy FSA 46-36. It works for me. However, I'd like to give this Velo Orange crankset a try.

I'll remove my 46 & 38t Cyclocross Crankset and instal the 46 & 30t supercompact.

The 46t chainwheel is very good for speeds up to 33 mph. Faster than that is not an issue for me.

Michael

With a crank that small, what do you intend to run for a cassette, 12-23?

11-26 is what I will use. You get a 110" high gear that is more than enough for cruising on the flats and spinning downhill, plus a low gear that can climb anything.

VO "steals" a lot of stuff, but as far as I can tell it's stuff that the original manufacturer can't or won't make -- or stuff that was dramatically overpriced to begin with. The cantilever cable rollers come to mind: $75 apiece for a little bit of aluminum with a steel pulley, that should have sold for $25 a pair... just like they do at VO.

I have no problem with VO's business model. I forgot about the Stronglight 49, this is basically a copy of those cranks and not the TA.

Hell, I guess I don't know why TA is unwilling to continue production of those cranks. They came with an unbelievably high price and sold like hotcakes. If someone is "stealing" their design they have only themselves to blame -- especially when it turns out they can be sold for about half the TA price.

I agree, although TA may have figured that they sold so well only because they told everyone it was a limited run. It's strange that they continue to make chainwheels. As far as pricing goes, genuine TA crankarms would be worth more to me, not sure how much more.

Bike companies have been "borrowing" others designs for decades. The 50.4mm BCD 5 pin crankset has been around for decades and was copied by many companies. Similiar 50.4mm cranks include: TA cyclotouriste, TA Criterium, Stronglight 49D, Nervar 631/633, Magistroni (cottered), Lambert, Sugino Pro Dynamic, Sugino PX, and the Shimano Deore FC-DE20/21/30/31. All used the similiar 50.4mm arm to ring attachment and some had different ways to attach the other rings to each other. A lot of the rings can be interchanged between different brands as well.

I didn't really mean to start a discussion about intellectual property in this thread, and I don't think we should have one here. P&R is probably the best place because it becomes heated. As I stated in my previous post, the thing I thought was funny wasn't. That's because Stronglight had crankarms that looked just like these. TA has no complaint. Interesting choice.

Assuming these are well-made, this is a real service. The supply of TA crankarms is finite, the crankarms are old an usually well-used, and collectors are hoarding them. Those of us that just want to use them are well served by the availability of these cranks.

My only issue is the heel clearance on old style cranks and their reproductions is almost nil. This is to get the golden q factor down, which is of uncertain importance.

I'm duck footed and new cranks with the arms angled out from the center line of the bike offer better heel clearance, and I'm either used to or prefer the wider q factor over my narrow old cranks.

With a crank that small, what do you intend to run for a cassette, 12-23?

i run 13-29 for climby rides and 13-26 for 'flatter' :)
most of the riding is in the 'big' ring, so i'm only shifting up and down in the rear.
i may even put a 44 on the front so i'll essentially have a 1x10 setup for most situations... until i head into the mountains or gaps.

i did spin out yesterday @ 46/13 chasing a riding partner. he was running something taller and was smoothly pedaling while i felt like i was descending on my fixed gear. i gave up the chase after about 1/4 - 1/2 mile. on a short social ride it might be fun to have something just a bit taller - but for most of my riding... and for brevets and ld rides in the mountains and hills - 46/30 with 13-29 works well for me. i don't ever see myself 'chasing' coming down a gap... unless someone stole coffee and pastry.

I run a 46/34 with a 34-13(8-speed) I spend most of my time in either 46-20 or 46-17 so taller gearing is not needed. I sure could use that 30-34 low gear for some of the longer climbs or off road excursions.

Does anyone know whether VO is planning to offer a wide range of chainrings as well as the 46-30 combination?

Does anyone know whether VO is planning to offer a wide range of chainrings as well as the 46-30 combination?

Yes

Does anyone know whether VO is planning to offer a wide range of chainrings as well as the 46-30 combination?
Yes, and in addition there are the old TA and Stronglight rings that will work with these cranks. These came in a very wide range of sizes. The old TA triple on our tandem is 26/42/54 and I think the available rings went all the way up to 72 teeth or so.

These do seem like a nice range as is. My touring bike has the old 'half-step plus granny' arrangement with 30/46/50 chainrings which works well. But with the closer spacing and smaller cogs of today's cassettes there's no need for the 50t ring and the simpler double arrangement would be preferred.

I would like a 44& 28t combo or even a 40 & 26 for loaded touring.

I 've used the TA rings on a Stronglight 49 crank since 1980, I have a 49-45-28 half step+ setup, but I don't use the 49 t ring much anymore, and want a 46-36-26 combo. The replacement cost of TA rings is high. One dealer charges a dollar a tooth. $42 for a 42t ring; $44 for 44t etc. Sounds dentistry.

I have been wanting to throw on a Sugino XD2 triple on my Cross Check to give me the ability to do touring. The problem is while my shifters work with triple they don't have a trim feature and i would need to replace my rear derailleur and buy a new chain.

When you add all of that up....super compact would make a heck of a lot of sense ;) Not to mention i could run a smaller cassette for my usual commuting and throw on something larger when i go on a loaded tour once or twice a year.

I 've used the TA rings on a Stronglight 49 crank since 1980, I have a 49-45-28 half step+ setup, but I don't use the 49 t ring much anymore, and want a 46-36-26 combo. The replacement cost of TA rings is high. One dealer charges a dollar a tooth. $42 for a 42t ring; $44 for 44t etc. Sounds dentistry.
I recently added a sugino xd600 in the 46/36/26 size and it's really nice compared to my old 48/38/28. Plus at around $100.00 it won't break the bank.

I'm very happy with 48-38-28 with a wide range cassette. I use friction shifter for FD so there are no trim problems whatsoever.

I think I'd be happy with a 44-28 too. All-round ring and a bailout. Using a double rather than a triple if a double will do has appeal. But a 46 strikes me as on the steep side for the all-rounder, at least for me.

Ordered one yesterday.

I got tired of waiting for the VO version of the compact double. I bought their polished Sugino Alpina, which is by far the nicest piece of bling to adorn my Kogswell P/R.

I got tired of waiting for the VO version of the compact double. I bought their polished Sugino Alpina, which is by far the nicest piece of bling to adorn my Kogswell P/R.

That Alpina looks so sweet. It makes me think of that commercial, where they ask the architect to design a house around the faucet. I haven't seen the Alpina in triple, but I'd buy it if I did. I prefer a triple with a tight cassette. The VO triple looks pretty nice, though.

Thanks for the thread bump. Reminded me to go order a pair for myself, to replace the T.A. Pro 5 Vis that broke. Hope these ones hold up...

I had a similar Crank with just one ring to be going on my Olmo Fixe... but it rubbed the stays so had to go with regular shimanos. here's a pic.

http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/kkiyer27/DSC00907.jpg

Got mine in today and bolted them right up. Mostly positive impressions. The machining is nice, as is the finish. Very light. The backside of the chainrings is unfinished as a cost cutter. No big deal, AFAIC. The nuts and bolts are steel, which I appreciate. Aluminum is stupid for nuts and bolts and I was always bothered by TA's use of it. Unfortunately, the nuts and bolts on the VO were installed without grease, so I had to undo all of them, grease them, and reassemble, which was a minor annoyance. After that, I installed the cranks on my SKF bottom bracket and immediately discovered that the Allen head nuts on the inside of the crank (the ones that attach the rings to the spider) fouled the fixed cup, so I had to take the crank back off, remove the nuts, file them down, and reassemble everything. Not-quite-so-minor annoyance!

But that's all done with. The only other thing I don't care for is the crank attachment method. Instead of a 15mm bolt, they use a large Allen head bolt. I suppose this is fairly standard today, but I still don't care for it. I was going to solve the "problem" by simply substituting my own 15mm bolts, but then discovered that the funky dustcaps (which also install with a gigantic Allen wrench) won't fit over the 15mm bolts, and the TA dustcaps use a different thread so can't be substituted. So back on go the Allen bolts and the Allen head dustcaps. In the end, they work just fine, but still look a little funky. Sigh.

Despite the quibbles I'm quite satisfied. Now I just hope they don't break!

Any updates on the VO cranksets? I am considering the 46/30 Grand Cru since I ride in a hilly area....

I didn't really mean to start a discussion about intellectual property in this thread, and I don't think we should have one here. P&R is probably the best place because it becomes heated. As I stated in my previous post, the thing I thought was funny wasn't. That's because Stronglight had crankarms that looked just like these. TA has no complaint. Interesting choice.

Assuming these are well-made, this is a real service. The supply of TA crankarms is finite, the crankarms are old an usually well-used, and collectors are hoarding them. Those of us that just want to use them are well served by the availability of these cranks.

As far as "well-made," I can only relate taht some users on other forums have said the chainrings have some runout, which affects front derailleur cage limit setting. I havent' read any true horror stories, as far as I remember.

users on other forums have said the chainrings have some runout

In 35 years at this game, I have yet to see a crankset that DIDN'T have some runout in the rings. That includes all the major brands and more than a couple minor ones.

SP
Bend, OR

I haven't noticed any runout, but then, I haven't looked. I worry about it on a SS/FG, but not on a derailleur bike.

Overall, I simply haven't anything to report. They work. They look pretty good. They haven't broken. From my perspective, no news is good news, when we're talking about cranks and bottom brackets.

thanks for comments ... no news seems to be good news

The VO triple looks pretty nice, though.

I'm looking to upgrade my old Campy Veloce 9 sp to 10 sp. Campy has terrible offerings as far as triples go. I emailed VO and they confirmed that their triple would shift perfectly with a Campy 10 sp drivetrain.

http://i553.photobucket.com/albums/jj396/cs1sales/VOTRIPLE.jpg

In 35 years at this game, I have yet to see a crankset that DIDN'T have some runout in the rings. That includes all the major brands and more than a couple minor ones.

SP
Bend, OR

Can't find the note, but I think it was enough to cause some issues in front mech adjustment. Another user had problems with the tooth finish on the inner chainring causing chain suck very often. V-O apparently replaced the bad part.