Training & Nutrition - Training Advice Offered.

Hey everyone,

What a great forum this is. I have found many great and helpful people and hoped that I could become one as well.

So I thought I would offer my services, I have a Sports Science and Nutrition degree and my specialty is endurance athlete performance.

If anyone has any questions or is looking for any advice then feel free to PM me or I will check in on this thread.

Rongo.

Please let us know, to settle a previous argument, is it bad to eat pizza and drink beer once in a while? Will this greatly diminish your potential as an athlete?
And if you eat pizza and have a few brews, will your next days ride be harmful to you rather than helpful? I am totally serious about these questions. They need to be answered because someone needs to be shut up.

Meal frequency: Does it matter as much as we are told?

Hey guys,

On the beer and pizza thing...

Two ways of looking at it.

One way to look at it is that every unit of alcohol that you put into your body must be metabolised by your liver. For that period of time (one unit/ hour approx) all other fat oxidation is completely stopped. So, if you were to drink 10 units of alcohol it will take your body 10 hours to metabolise it. So that Pizza full of fat is stored as just that. Fat. Now this is never a good thing. Not only for your liver but for your physique and fuel metabolism effieciency. If you gain weight then obviously your relative Vo2 decreases. This is a bit far reaching anyway. That is kind of my opinion on it based on science.

The other way of looking at it is that you are bringing new stimuli. If you do the same thing over and over (diet) then your body adapts to it and your adaptation slows down. So if you have that "re-feed" then it can "shock" your body into new adaptation.

So to answer your question. In my opinion I dont think it will harm you as an athlete once in a while. I dont think that it would be serious enough to hinder your adaptation to your training. As for the next days ride, all endurance athletes should aim for effecient fat oxidation, I think that any ride, apart from rides through injury, will be benificial to your training. They might just be less effective. I think this is pretty likely. I hope that kind of answers your question without getting silly with details.

Meal Timing - Dependant on goals but yes, important. Correct meal timing and macro nutrient intake can safe guard you from muscle atrophy and catabolism. Generally you should try and get protein in every meal. It is important your post training meal contains simple carbs and BCAA's. Always try and consume 45 - 55% of your daily intake from Carbs, more if you are a true endurance athlete. 30% protein and 20% fat. Try and get some protein in the form of Casein in the evening before bed.

Any more questions?
Rongo.

P.s. Daspydyr you need to allow people to send you PM's

I have a question...

I am a 40 year old male. I have been weight training 3 days a week for 10+ years. I am 5'7". At the height of my weight training I was 190 pounds but as with most weight trainers, I found that my joints(rotator cuffs, knees etc) could not be expected to consistently lift the weight required to keep me at 190 pounds. When I quit lifting so heavy I settled in at 180 lbs.

In the last 2 years, I have added cycling to my weight training and my goal is to be aerobically fit and lean but remain muscular. I typically ride 3 days a week... two 15 milers and the one on the weekend could be anything from 30 to 100 miles. Just adding the cycling cut 5 pounds of fat off of me to my current weight of 175 lbs and I am ready to take the next step and go lean. I assume that will have to be done with my diet. This is where I need the most advice...

On a typical day, I will wake with 3 cups of black coffee and protein(30g) shake for breakfast.

Between breakfast and lunch I will have a banana, yogurt, some peanuts and a fig newton.

For lunch, I will have a tuna wrap(tuna, real mayo, some sort of cheese, sweet pickles wrapped in a soft tortilla) some more peanuts and a couple more fig newtons.

For dinner, I usually have an whatever the wife puts on the table. Could be anything from spagetti, steak to cheesburgers and fries. Usually some vegees on the side.

Then a protein shake(30g of protein) before I go to bed.

I also have a protein shake with each workout.

Now the biggest things holding me back up til now have been eating sugary cereals, ice cream and cake, cookies, sugar in my coffee etc... at will throught the week. As of this week, I have cut those things out completley with the exception of the fig newtons because I love sweets.

Do you think I will be able to get very lean with a diet like that provided I have cut out the crap I have been eating up until now? Keep in mind, I would like to maintain the amount of muscle I have now.

What should I add or remove from my diet?

I have researched this on the net but all the advice just makes my head spin.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Rongo,

Do you also plan exercise routines?

I am trying to get in shape for 150KM ride coming up in May and after spending most of this past winter in the recliner I need a bit of work.

I've been hitting the gym doing 30-min on a treadmill and some on a sit-down bike thing. Plus I am hitting some of the weight machines. But I just don't feel like I have the right sequence on the right machines. I started about 2-weeks ago and am hitting the gym about 3-4 times/week since then.

Not getting too much personal stuff here but I am 58, 220lbs, 73in. Last season I was riding most weekends and some weekdays. I was averaging a little over 100km week. But unfortunately I slacked off over the winter.


Any generic advice?


Thanks,
Mike

rongo
whats your opinion on the perfect daily meal plan for a cyclist. just us cyclists on the board here. cat 5's - cat 1's .. guys that work a job for a living and train 6-12+ hours a week. what would you eat, in your 6 meals a day?? what do you recomend. i know carbs protein and fats but what way? sweet potators instead of pasta. brown rice instead of wheat bread. give me some details on what you eat all day and night..
also, whats your opinion on dr.Uffe Ravnskovs study on drinking whole milk? he basically says in his study, the saturated fat in whole milk is overated and means nothing..
now, i'm not talking about how bodybuilders and weight trainers trying to bulk up drink this cause its more calorie dense that skim 1 or 2%,, i'm talking about his scientific studies saying saturated fat isnt bad for you, or wont hurt you.. you believe him, or the other 100 doctors that sat whole milk and saturated fat is bad
thanks alot

Meal Timing - Dependant on goals but yes, important. Correct meal timing and macro nutrient intake can safe guard you from muscle atrophy and catabolism. Generally you should try and get protein in every meal. It is important your post training meal contains simple carbs and BCAA's. Always try and consume 45 - 55% of your daily intake from Carbs, more if you are a true endurance athlete. 30% protein and 20% fat. Try and get some protein in the form of Casein in the evening before bed.

Can you explain why it's important to get protein in every meal? As opposed to, say, getting all your daily protein in a single meal and eating carbs/fat for the others? Actually I think I'm OK on this score, but I find it helps to know why.

Calvin386,
not a Dr of medicine, however, easiest way to drop weight - is to reduce calories and carry on burning (exercising). Calories content of fat is much higher per g than the contributions from sugar, although moderating sugar is not a bad thing given what it does to your blood sugar levels, insulin diabetes blah blah blah.

cut down on the fats - you mention mayo, peanuts, ice cream, cookies, cheese, cheeseburgers, fries..
all these contain lots of calories. Cut down on these things and the weight will go. However, you may feel hungry until you get used to it.

also don't go mad on the protein, in large doses its not good for your kidneys. You need enough fuel so as to not start eating into your muscle when exercising and you need enough protein for tissue repair, but at your age you dont need massive amounts of protein - you're no longer growing.

but hey this is the internet; take everything with a pinch of salt, though not too much - you have to think about your blood pressure....:o)

be interested to see how this compares with expert opinon.

Thanks very much for sharing your brilliance, NBS. (Jeez, especially about the booze; no wonder I'm still so freakin' chubby despite averaging 500+ miles per month.)

What are the possible problems with exceeding one's theoretical Max Heart Rate?
I'm 40, therefore my max HR should be 180. But during my A/T training sessions, I'm frequently in the low- to mid-190's. I feel like crud during (in a good way), but always feel better when it comes back down. Aside from my smiling carcass being found a few days later on the floor next to my trainer, are there any longterm risks?

Also what is your opinion on milk-thistle seeds to undo some of the liver damage I've done over the years?

Can you recommend any 'chemistry for dummies' books or websites that talk about the hazards of auto-exhaust? Everyone knows it's terrible for us to be sucking this stuff up while climbing a steep hill behind straining internal combustion engines, but I guess I'd like to know something more specific. And if possible, some offsetting dietary suggestions--drink more water? Consume foods high in antioxidants?

Rongo,

Do you also plan exercise routines?

I am trying to get in shape for 150KM ride coming up in May and after spending most of this past winter in the recliner I need a bit of work.

I've been hitting the gym doing 30-min on a treadmill and some on a sit-down bike thing. Plus I am hitting some of the weight machines. But I just don't feel like I have the right sequence on the right machines. I started about 2-weeks ago and am hitting the gym about 3-4 times/week since then.

Not getting too much personal stuff here but I am 58, 220lbs, 73in. Last season I was riding most weekends and some weekdays. I was averaging a little over 100km week. But unfortunately I slacked off over the winter.


Any generic advice?


Thanks,
Mike

Yeah sure, I think that at your age focussing on shorter bursts of more intense training will benifit you.

Generic speaking - Do supramaximal training. Interval training, weight training circuits (compound exercises) and lots flexibility. That will be the key.

It is my opinion that there is no substitute to biking when you are training for a race. I would ditch the treadmill is I was you and look at doing some hill profiles as well.

This is pretty generic so if you want more detail we can go into more detail. Flick me a PM if you like.


rongo
whats your opinion on the perfect daily meal plan for a cyclist. just us cyclists on the board here. cat 5's - cat 1's .. guys that work a job for a living and train 6-12+ hours a week. what would you eat, in your 6 meals a day?? what do you recomend. i know carbs protein and fats but what way? sweet potators instead of pasta. brown rice instead of wheat bread. give me some details on what you eat all day and night..
also, whats your opinion on dr.Uffe Ravnskovs study on drinking whole milk? he basically says in his study, the saturated fat in whole milk is overated and means nothing..
now, i'm not talking about how bodybuilders and weight trainers trying to bulk up drink this cause its more calorie dense that skim 1 or 2%,, i'm talking about his scientific studies saying saturated fat isnt bad for you, or wont hurt you.. you believe him, or the other 100 doctors that sat whole milk and saturated fat is bad
thanks alot

Hi there,

The perfect meal plan for a cyclist is one high in protein and carbs. Carbs should come from wholegrain pastas and Low GI foods like Oats and Veges. Save your simple carbs for before and after training where they can be quickly used to replenish glycogen.

You should always try and get some protein in the morning to get your body anabolic again after fasting all night. Before bed have some casein in either a shake or cottage cheese. I think you already have the right idea. You just need to make sure you get plenty of food. A good way to work out what you need is to use fitday.com to calculate your calorie consumption then use an energy expenditure calculator to work out your output. Tweek your intake up or down dependant on what you want your weight to do. I usually try and get my clients to limit their carbs after 4pm also.

I havent read that study, One thing that I do know is that saturated fat stimulates testosterone production which is basically growth hormone. This is obviously good for cyclists to maintain muscle mass. Often it isnt that fat that is the problem it is the toxins in the fat. In New Zealand all our beef is grass fed unlike in the US where the majority is grain fed. Now the fat in our milk would contain less toxins than in your milk. Healthier animal = less toxins in the fat. So try and get good quality meat and milk.


Can you explain why it's important to get protein in every meal? As opposed to, say, getting all your daily protein in a single meal and eating carbs/fat for the others? Actually I think I'm OK on this score, but I find it helps to know why.

Your body can only process so much protein in one go. Some studies say 30g. Getting protein in small amounts and often keeps your metabolic rate higher and your appetite lower. It also lowers protein degradation at the muscular level.


Calvin386,
not a Dr of medicine, however, easiest way to drop weight - is to reduce calories and carry on burning (exercising). Calories content of fat is much higher per g than the contributions from sugar, although moderating sugar is not a bad thing given what it does to your blood sugar levels, insulin diabetes blah blah blah.

cut down on the fats - you mention mayo, peanuts, ice cream, cookies, cheese, cheeseburgers, fries..
all these contain lots of calories. Cut down on these things and the weight will go. However, you may feel hungry until you get used to it.

also don't go mad on the protein, in large doses its not good for your kidneys. You need enough fuel so as to not start eating into your muscle when exercising and you need enough protein for tissue repair, but at your age you dont need massive amounts of protein - you're no longer growing.

but hey this is the internet; take everything with a pinch of salt, though not too much - you have to think about your blood pressure....:o)

be interested to see how this compares with expert opinon.

Yep pretty much. If you burn more than you put in you will lose weight. If you put in more than you burn you will gain weight.

Peanuts are great for healthy omegas though. I wouldnt worry about limiting them unless you are trying to shed weight / fat. Even then they are still ok to have in moderation.

As for protein, it requires a hugeeeee amount to damage your kidneys. You would probably have to have some pre existing conditions. As I said before and I agree with you fully, you dont need to go silly on the protein. 1 - 2 g per lb of body weight is sufficient.


Thanks very much for sharing your brilliance, NBS. (Jeez, especially about the booze; no wonder I'm still so freakin' chubby despite averaging 500+ miles per month.)

What are the possible problems with exceeding one's theoretical Max Heart Rate?
I'm 40, therefore my max HR should be 180. But during my A/T training sessions, I'm frequently in the low- to mid-190's. I feel like crud during (in a good way), but always feel better when it comes back down. Aside from my smiling carcass being found a few days later on the floor next to my trainer, are there any longterm risks?

Also what is your opinion on milk-thistle seeds to undo some of the liver damage I've done over the years?

Can you recommend any 'chemistry for dummies' books or websites that talk about the hazards of auto-exhaust? Everyone knows it's terrible for us to be sucking this stuff up while climbing a steep hill behind straining internal combustion engines, but I guess I'd like to know something more specific. And if possible, some offsetting dietary suggestions--drink more water? Consume foods high in antioxidants?

Hi, I dont think that you need to worry about your heart rate. Many people, especially those who have been active throughout their lives can tolerate higher heart rates. When you get a battery acid / blood taste in your mouth then tapering off a little would be a good option. This is due to the membranes in your mounth and resp system becoming permeable. The same goes for your stomach which is why we sometimes have mad stomach pain after a heavy session.

I havent read anything about emissions and health, I think your logic is sound though. More antioxidants and water would be the go. As for websites. Pubmed is awesome.

I hope some of that helps. Im pretty tired though so if I havent answered well just tell me and I can answer with more detail.

One way to look at it is that every unit of alcohol that you put into your body must be metabolised by your liver. For that period of time (one unit/ hour approx) all other fat oxidation is completely stopped. So, if you were to drink 10 units of alcohol it will take your body 10 hours to metabolise it. So that Pizza full of fat is stored as just that. Fat.


I don't think this is true, strictly speaking. Alcohol does cause a significant drop in fat metabolism, but certainly doesn't stop it. Once metabolized to acetate (from acetaldehyde, which you don't want hanging around), the idea is that it is used preferentially, as it can be used similarly to the end result of beta oxidation. So, it is dose-dependent, and if you ate it with a pizza, it would be absorbed much more slowly and probably not totally kill off your fat metabolism. The study I saw cited everywhere (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/5/928), claiming a 73% reduction in beta oxidation, gave the participants two sugar-free drinks, after an overnight fast (had a heavy evening meal, and the drinks started at 0800 the next morning). I'd be pretty buzzed. Not your typical ingestion pattern. Probably not your typical metabolic response.

It is also controversial whether adding alcohol to the diet leads to weight gain. It seems some people doubt this.

Effects of Alcohol Metabolism
Body Weight. Although alcohol has a relatively high caloric value, 7.1 Calories per gram (as a point of reference, 1 gram of carbohydrate contains 4.5 Calories, and 1 gram of fat contains 9 Calories), alcohol consumption does not necessarily result in increased body weight. An analysis of data collected from the first National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES I) found that although drinkers had significantly higher intakes of total calories than nondrinkers, drinkers were not more obese than nondrinkers. In fact, women drinkers had significantly lower body weight than nondrinkers. As alcohol intake among men increased, their body weight decreased (17). An analysis of data from the second National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES II) and other large national studies found similar results for women (18), although the relationship between drinking and body weight for men is inconsistent. Although moderate doses of alcohol added to the diets of lean men and women do not seem to lead to weight gain, some studies have reported weight gain when alcohol is added to the diets of overweight persons (19,20). (from http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa35.htm, with citations at the bottom of the page)

A question I would have regarding this is whether the body fat percentages track with the weights. High alcohol consumption does decrease testosterone levels.


The perfect meal plan for a cyclist is one high in protein and carbs. Carbs should come from wholegrain pastas and Low GI foods like Oats and Veges. Save your simple carbs for before and after training where they can be quickly used to replenish glycogen.Confusing GI with simple/complex is dangerous. Many complex carbs have high GI's, and not all veggies are low GI.
GI is the more useful concept, along with glycemic load. The problem is one of amylose vs. amylopectin, i.e., of branching. Amylases work on terminal units, and highly branched starches have more terminal units. Bread and potatoes are common examples of where this can be easily misleading. Both are "complex," but typically high GI foods (potatoes vary by type and time of year, as do most plants). Also, the GI of pasta increases quite a bit with cooking time.

Of course, much of the issue of GI/simple/complex is eliminated with a healthy amount of fiber and fat with each meal (excluding high GI meals just after training). These delay gastric emptying, and help blunt the effects of carbs on blood sugar.

As for alcohol and training, some people get sleep disturbances from only a drink or two, and Americans culturally drink more in the evening hours. Additionally, the same amount can lead to dehydration, and alcohol disturbs normal glycogen storage. So, it could upset your training if you don't handle alcohol well. For me, I have to drink plenty of water with each beer.


Hi, I dont think that you need to worry about your heart rate. Many people, especially those who have been active throughout their lives can tolerate higher heart ratesYes, but it would also be prudent to point out that all formulae for max HR are notoriously inaccurate, and that max hr varies by mode of exercise, anyway. Even the more-researched ones have standard deviations so large that they are not useful for anything other than passing interest, or in cases where maximal heart rate cannot be measured and the guess is good enough. Those are rare among the young, active population.


When you get a battery acid / blood taste in your mouth then tapering off a little would be a good option.If you actually spit up blood during exercise, then yes, and go to the ER. If you have a mysterious hemorrhage and it's burbling up into your mouth, it ought to be checked out. Or, you know, wash it down with some Accelerade, flip the stem to keep the blood flowing out, and HTFU. Just ask around on BF later.

Ever get the same taste when you injure yourself badly, or vomit?
I'm wagering it's not EIPH, but a combination of the tongue drying due to heavy mouth breathing, and sympathetic nervous system activation resulting in the alteration of salivary activation and salivary ion balance (and pH). It would connect stress and tasting metal, anyway.

I never notice this kind of thing. Maybe because I've been feasting on the blood and bikes of recumbent riders lately, so my mouth always tastes like metal. They're like weak gazelles; the bikes are faster, but they're still slow (maybe it's all this widespread EIPH?). I just wish they'd bother to shave every once in a while.

Edit: found a link for the saliva thing (http://jdr.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/68/11/1495.pdf). Basically, it ties levels of cortisol to changes in salivary content. The googles don't bring up any answer that seems more likely than mine, so I'm sticking to it. Which ion, though?

I don't think this is true, strictly speaking. Alcohol does cause a significant drop in fat metabolism, but certainly doesn't stop it; fat metabolism doesn't have to go to the liver. Once metabolized to acetate, the idea is that it is used preferentially, as it can be used similarly to the end result of beta oxidation. So, it is dose-dependent, and if you ate it with a pizza, it would be absorbed much more slowly and probably not totally kill off your fat metabolism.

It is also controversial whether adding alcohol to the diet leads to weight gain. It seems some people doubt this.

Effects of Alcohol Metabolism
Body Weight. Although alcohol has a relatively high caloric value, 7.1 Calories per gram (as a point of reference, 1 gram of carbohydrate contains 4.5 Calories, and 1 gram of fat contains 9 Calories), alcohol consumption does not necessarily result in increased body weight. An analysis of data collected from the first National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES I) found that although drinkers had significantly higher intakes of total calories than nondrinkers, drinkers were not more obese than nondrinkers. In fact, women drinkers had significantly lower body weight than nondrinkers. As alcohol intake among men increased, their body weight decreased (17). An analysis of data from the second National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES II) and other large national studies found similar results for women (18), although the relationship between drinking and body weight for men is inconsistent. Although moderate doses of alcohol added to the diets of lean men and women do not seem to lead to weight gain, some studies have reported weight gain when alcohol is added to the diets of overweight persons (19,20). (from http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa35.htm, with citations at the bottom of the page)


Confusing GI with simple/complex is dangerous. Many complex carbs have high GI's, and not all veggies are low GI.
GI is the more useful concept, along with glycemic load. The problem is one of amylose vs. amylopectin, i.e., of branching. Amylases work on terminal units, and highly branched starches have more terminal units. Bread and potatoes are common examples of where this can be easily misleading. Both are "complex," but typically high GI foods (potatoes vary by type and time of year, as do most plants).

Of course, much of the issue of GI/simple/complex is eliminated with a healthy amount of fiber and fat with each meal (excluding high GI meals just after training). These foods delay gastric emptying, and increase transit time.

I agree, poor wording on the "completely" bit. In my opinion it is slowed down very significantly. Im not sure about the eating with Pizza thing that you brought up though. You have to be in a very specific state to use acetate correct? So what is the likelyhood of someone downing a few ales getting into this state. As for the metabolism of alcohol the net result is still the same despite the rate of absorbtion?

That study doesnt really take in to account external factors of alcohol and non alcohol drinkers such as their diets, social networks etc etc. If you look at someone who drinks and someone who doesnt sometimes you couldnt tell who was who.

On the GI thing. Once again poor choice of wording instead of saying

"The perfect meal plan for a cyclist is one high in protein and carbs. Carbs should come from wholegrain pastas and Low GI foods like Oats and Veges. Save your simple carbs for before and after training where they can be quickly used to replenish glycogen"

I should have said

"The perfect meal plan for a cyclist is one high in protein and carbs. Carbs should come from wholegrain pastas and Low GI foods like Oats and some Veges. Save your simple carbs for before and after training where they can be quickly used to replenish glycogen"

I did say "and" though :)

Interesting on the transit time. I learn something new every day.

You have to be in a very specific state to use acetate correct? So what is the likelyhood of someone downing a few ales getting into this state. As for the metabolism of alcohol the net result is still the same despite the rate of absorbtion?

acetaldelhyde can enter the mitochodria, where it is "prepped" for the Krebs cycle. Basically, the acetyl-Coa is just coming from alcohol, instead of fats. acetate is joined with coenzyme A to form acetyl-CoA, which enters the krebs cycle and is metabolized to citric acid (hence, the cycle is also known as the citric acid cycle). Most reactions tend to be slowed by the presence of their end-products. If you're forming a bunch of acetate from alcohol, it is predictable that beta oxidation, which ultimately produces acetyl-CoA ,would decrease.

The rate of absorption doesn't change the rate of metabolism for alcohol. I'm not certain exactly how much absorption is slowed by food, but the experience of the masses seems to agree it is significant, as judged by the effects it has on you. With it being absorbed more slowly, the peak acetate concentration would be lower, which may allow beta oxidation to continue nearer its normal levels. The study I cited gave them two drinks after not eating for 12 hrs. If you do this regularly, it pertains to you. I'm almost always eating something with my beer, so I doubt the effects are so extreme.

Thanks so much Rongo! Dios bendiga sus manos!


Try and get some protein in the form of Casein in the evening before bed.

Casein? As in a little chunk of cheese?

Casein? As in a little chunk of cheese?

Fat free Greek yogurt would probably be a more healthful option. It's nice and thick, and has a rich mouthfeel, unlike other nonfat dairy. It's essentially yogurt that has had the whey drained off. Per volume, it has more protein, and more of it is casein.

You do lose some water-soluble nutrients. This includes sodium and sugar (considered positives in this context); and quite a bit of calcium (about half as much Ca as regular yogurt; I get plenty, not a point of concern for me).

The protein in a simple glass of milk (http://cahpwww.vet.upenn.edu/serendipity/archives/4-Milk-Protein.html) is also about 85% casein (2.6g casein/3.0 g true protein). The carbs and lactose are a concern for some, though. The texture of greek yogurt and its higher protein content (about 2.5 times, per volume) give it a higher satiety rating, and make it a good option for before-bed use.

I also like to substitute it for whipped cream in fruit crepes.

If you prefer cottage cheese (it turns my stomach), that's a good option, too. Like any cheese, it is higher in sodium, if that's important to you. I'm trying to steer clear of cheese in general, but bodybuilders swear by it.

I hope some of that helps. Im pretty tired though so if I havent answered well just tell me and I can answer with more detail.

You answered my question, plus provided a lot of other interesting information -- thanks! :thumb:

Can you suggest some websites/podcasts for someone who knows very little about nutrition, but wants to learn? I used to be able to eat whatever I want and ride my bike and things worked out...with age my gut is getting bigger; I don't race. Thanks in a advance.

Can you suggest some websites/podcasts for someone who knows very little about nutrition, but wants to learn?

nutritiondata.com (http://www.bikeforums.net/nutritiondata.com) has some good articles about dieting and heart health. Michael Pollan's books (I like In Defense of Food) are also popular for a reason. He isn't a scientist, and it shows occasionally, but his points are generally sound and he is a compelling writer.

www.fitday.com is a good food tracking site. Also gourmet nutrition is a great book.

I hope some of that helps. Im pretty tired though so if I havent answered well just tell me and I can answer with more detail.

You could do us all a favor and remind the folks that formula-derived "maximum heart rate" is meaningless because of huge individual variations. I broke that rule several times today and that was without a pit-bull nipping at my legs.

Don in Austin

Hey everyone,

What a great forum this is. I have found many great and helpful people and hoped that I could become one as well.

So I thought I would offer my services, I have a Sports Science and Nutrition degree and my specialty is endurance

So what about this endurance question? http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?624932-Building-endurance-for-long-steep-hills-Mode-A-or-mode-B


athlete performance.

If anyone has any questions or is looking for any advice then feel free to PM me or I will check in on this thread.

Rongo.

Collecting opinions --- Don in Austin

So what about this endurance question? http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?624932-Building-endurance-for-long-steep-hills-Mode-A-or-mode-B
Collecting opinions --- Don in Austin

Building endurance for hills is basically the same as for anything else. I'd vote for not going so hard you have to actually stop. Of course, you can speed up and slow down, which is what intervals are all about. And intervals do work.

You should also take it easier sometimes, and just try doing it at one steady effort.

That's basically what everyone does to: 1. be able to go faster and 2. be able to go for longer. There are different types of intervals, but for building endurance the main goal should be to just keep going without actually stopping to rest. Basically, don't start out so hard and you'll be able to make it to the end.

Needless to say, you can't sustain max hr for very long. Training in this way may help you get faster, but you can't "race" at max HR for hours. If you want to make it up a very long climb, taching out probably isn't he best way to go. Since you have a HR monitor, why not establish hr zones for training purposes? This can help you calibrate your RPE.

At your age (63, IIRC), I would make sure all my health checkups are in order before doing a lot of high-intensity training.

Building endurance for hills is basically the same as for anything else. I'd vote for not going so hard you have to actually stop.

No way around having to stop at this time. Its 450 feet elevation gained in 1/2 mile. I make it a point to cruise into it totally relaxed with a pretty good cadence as there is no momentum that will help. Just can't hang in to the top at any pace...YET. I guess I could cheat by zig-zagging.



Of course, you can speed up and slow down, which is what intervals are all about. And intervals do work.

You should also take it easier sometimes, and just try doing it at one steady effort.

That's basically what everyone does to: 1. be able to go faster and 2. be able to go for longer. There are different types of intervals, but for building endurance the main goal should be to just keep going without actually stopping to rest. Basically, don't start out so hard and you'll be able to make it to the end.

Needless to say, you can't sustain max hr for very long. Training in this way may help you get faster, but you can't "race" at max HR for hours. If you want to make it up a very long climb, taching out probably isn't he best way to go. Since you have a HR monitor, why not establish hr zones for training purposes? This can help you calibrate your RPE.

Again this is a short hill. Its just long compared with other hills of 20*+ slope that I have mastered.


At your age (63, IIRC), I would make sure all my health checkups are in order before doing a lot of high-intensity training.

They are looking pretty good. Way better than two years ago before I got on this kick.

Don in Austin

Meal frequency: Does it matter as much as we are told?

For the purposes of weight loss or maintenance, no. It was thought from epidemiology that eating more frequently decreased lipogenesis and increased the thermic effect of food significantly, but labeled-water studies have not shown this to be true. For gaining weight, eating more often has its advantages, especially for those with high caloric needs. Having expressly tried to gain lean mass in the pass, I can attest that it is easier to break the calories into more feedings.

The main reason it does help some people is that it keeps them from being so hungry they overeat when they finally do have a meal. It still comes down to energy balance. Frequent eating is mostly a strategy for appetite and portion control.

How about keeping your body in a state of "anabolism" rather than "catabolism" so in turn maintain and increase muscle mass therefore improving your metabolic rate? also the reduction of cortisol after training?

How about keeping your body in a state of "anabolism" rather than "catabolism" so in turn maintain and increase muscle mass therefore improving your metabolic rate? also the reduction of cortisol after training?

Everything depends on your goals. My answer was geared toward the most general case, in which the only issue is how many times a day to eat (without training). In this case, it doesn't matter much.

Of course you need a feeding of carbs and protein after a workout, and during would be a good idea for longer bouts. BCAA's also seem to decrease fatigue. Glycogen synthase is most active in the hour after intense exercise, so this is the best time to replace glycogen. Aside from causing cells to increase uptake glucose, insulin also encourages amino acid uptake and has other anabolic properties. The recovery period is the most critical, with regards to specific nutrition.

The most significant way to nutritionally reduce cortisol release during training, as far as I am aware, is consuming carbohydrates during prolonged and/or intense exercise; this decreases circulating stress hormones, including cortisol. A primary function of cortisol is to increase gluconeogenesis. Thus, it makes sense that keeping blood glucose levels relatively stable would decrease the need for cortisol. Beyond this, proper periodization of training is necessary to prevent overtraining. There is a happy medium of training stress you need to achieve. Overtraining is, essentially, a constellation of symptoms thought to be caused primarily by increased stress hormones.

You have to put yourself into an anabolic state via training, or drugs. Food on its own is not anabolic. One strategy, mentioned above, is high-sugar protein drinks to cause an insulin release. Without the proper training stimulus, though, protein synthesis is not upregulated and lipogenesis is encouraged. We can discuss the merits of alkaline vs. acidic diets, and nitrogen balance, but really this will almost always come back to eating a prudent diet. Conveniently, plant matter is highly beneficial here, and complements the protein needed for muscle hypertrophy.

Though I have some knowledge, endocrinology is not my specialty. Based on what I do know: worry about what you eat and drink immediately before and after, as well as during, training. Aside from that, eat healthfully and eat enough. I like some protein before bed, but I'm also hungry and going to eat something, so I figure I may as well try to be constructive.

I can think of things other than nutrition that have a lot of impact on recovering from training, too. Sleep is a big one, and almost every working person needs more than he gets on a regular basis. If you could fix this, it would undoubtedly pay big dividends.

I only eat one meal a day, at night. Occasionally I may eat during the day, or on a long ride, but I feel better with my sympathetic activated. I ask because in my opinion the greatest mistake sports nutrition, and nutrition in general has overlooked, is the dominance of the sympathetic nervous system required for effort, and the bodies ability to generate energy efficiently when in this state. Food activates the parasympathetic. Why would you want to be relaxed and calm during a tough bike ride? We NEED the adrenaline. We NEED the growth hormone, and it comes out best during a phase of undereating/fasting. There is no room for feeling sated when you are running from a tiger, or climbing the fattest hill. None. That and the whole life extension, healing aspect of it.
FYI I weigh 130-135 pending how hard I stuff my face with almonds at night. I stuff my face until it looks like its going to break, like in a freddy kruger movie or something, so recovery is great.
Coming from trying to "eat right" six times a day (aka worrying about food more than one should) to this, nothing else feels right anymore.
An isreali special forces guy wrote a book about it, called "The Warrior Diet". I think its good stuff.

The answer I got from the "the expert" was what I was expecting, never hurts to ask though.

[QUOTE=Lamp-Shade;10465100We NEED the adrenaline.[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree with you, altogether. There are different ways to live, and the human body is highly adaptable to different feeding arrangements. If we were all just trying to stay alive long enough to procreate (or run away from tigers), there are many ways to get there. You can create fuel from many sources, and we actually don't need much protein just to stay alive. This is much different from asking what is optimal for health or performance, which don't necessarily even agree with each other.

Which brings us to the question of needing adrenaline. You do need it, but you want its effects to be strongest at certain times, like when the break happens or when you need to run for your life. If you constantly live with high levels of it, you do become desensitized. This is bad for sports performance, as the ability to increase HR to maximal levels is lost.

Like I said, sleep is a big deal. Part of the reason for this is HGH production. High-carb diets also decrease HGH release, but it would be difficult to train hard and race without a lot of carbs. So, you do have to make a choice, and most choose to restore glycogen while it is opportune, so they can train hard again soon. And, insulin increases amino acid uptake. So, you're trading the anabolic effects of one hormone for those of another. You're also only
necessarily trading during this window, as HGH's release is pulsatile throughout the day. You could seek to maximize HGH release at these other times.

NBS 4life,

I have a question for you. I've been riding for years, off and on. I've recently gotten back on the bike, gotten rid of the car, and dropped about 7 pants sizes in... oh I don't know 15 weeks? I don't have a scale here so I have no idea how much weight I've lost.

Anyway, I have been finding that my left knee is killing me a lot lately along with my lower back keeping me awake at night. Now my back always hurts, but this seems more so that normal due to the waking at night. I'm thinking either I'm doing something wrong or my bike seat has been moved some how while it was in storage. (I think the second more likely, personally.)

My problem comes from I don't know if it should move forward or back. My guess would be more forward. My hips don't rock on the seat at all so I'm fairly confident it's at the right hight.

I've probably already answered my own question here. I just hate playing w/ the geometry on my bikes!

cheers
kat

Hi Kat,

I am going to be completely honest with you and tell you that I am the wrong person to be asking about bike geometry :) what I would like to know however is whether or not you have a job where you are seated most of the day or so you spend large stints at a computer? The reason I ask is because from the brief description of your symptoms I think you are out of whack biomechanically.

Rongo.

Biomechanically out of whack hu? I'm not quite sure I know what that means. I sit wrong? Looking on wiki gave too much info, but I assume your leaning towards what other things I'm doing?...

You pegged me dead on with the sit down job though. I've done call center work for a number of years. Please let me know where your going with that cause it could be the answer I'm looking for.

Another possibility I'm batting around is stomach muscle strength. I had surgery last summer involving the abdominal region that although I'm feeling great I'm sure I'm still recovering from.

Look forward to your post and cheers
kat

People who sit often and for long periods of time often have tight hip flexors and short hamstrings.

An easy way to test your hip flexor flexibilty is to try this test. http://www.brianmac.co.uk/hipflex.htm if you do have tight hip flexors you need to start doing some stretches to loosen them up. You will know if you have tight hamstrings purely if you cant touch your toes with straight legs. No excuses for not being able to do that (this can also be affected by lumbar mobility but not so much you cant get a fair idea)

Basically what im saying is that back pain often stems from poor hamstring flexibilty and function. Knee pain other than pain of the joint due to injury stems from other parts of the body often. For instance medial knee pain often comes from pronation of the feet. Patella tendonitis often stems from hip problems. So you need to tell me exactly where and when your knee hurts.

As you say your lower back may be affected by your abdominal surgery. The transverse abdominal is often the culprit here. Try some of these exercises http://www.exercise4weightloss.com/transverse-abdominal-exercises.html

I can only make suggestions on what could be the problems with you. Knowing about your knee would be helpful.

as your asking for history here, i'll pm you. i'd prefer to not to have my info archived.

cheers
kat

I've been doing some of the exercises n things seem to be feeling better w/ stretching. So thanks for the advise.

cheers
kat