Advocacy & Safety - How to Avoid This Right Hook?

I've got a new job, and I commute on a road I'm not used to, at all. A 45mph road with four lanes. For the most part, I have no problems riding on it.

The only time I have troubles is when I'm preparing to turn right down another road.

See the attached diagram.

I'm fairly far left in the RTOL, but every morning I have numerous cars accelerate past past me and then cut right in front of me. Its made for a couple close calls already. Its a fairly long turn lane, and I don't mind it so much until I get real close to the turn.

How do you guys avoid this?

Red line is me on the bike, blue line is the car. Keep in mind, I intend to turn right here as well.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=139168&d=1267219879

I would get out in the lane before making the turn. I also have a Dinotte 140L tail light and use a mirror.

Each time you ride there you have to be alert and adjust to the traffic.

Interesting, in that the lane line is striped solid all the way to the traffic island, indicating in most states that you aren't supposed to cross that line (Safe to cross dashed lines; not so for solid lines). This may be a big part of the problem ;-)

Definitely the cars shouldn't be crossing them to go past you (although it is not strictly illegal in some states unless it is a double line). I would move out into the lane where the blue line is. After the other cars turn off, then you can move closer to the right if you're more comfortable there. And everything 10 Wheels said. And everything he implied.

I would likely do just what it seems you're doing. Position myself far enough to the left in the lane to turn inside a right-hooking car, but not so far to the left as to allow a car to pass me on my right. I would also approach this turn with one eye in my mirror to read when a driver is going to right-hook me so I know in advance the "signal" I am going to give when we come out of the turn.

If you're intending to turn right at the same point as the car, take the lane. Make them have to slow down to avoid hitting you.

I'll try some of these suggestions. The concern I have with riding in the outside thru traffic lane is I would have cars passing me on my right.

There can be a steady stream of cars in the morning rush hour, and I'm not sure I would find a suitable gap to move back into the right turn lane in time.

If you're intending to turn right at the same point as the car, take the lane. Make them have to slow down to avoid hitting you.
Take which lane? I'm already taking the lane for my destination.

I'll try some of these suggestions. The concern I have with riding in the outside thru traffic lane is I would have cars passing me on my right.

There can be a steady stream of cars in the morning rush hour, and I'm not sure I would find a suitable gap to move back into the right turn lane in time.

It is a tough call. I wouldn't want cars to under cut me and pass me on my right.

I'll try some of these suggestions. The concern I have with riding in the outside thru traffic lane is I would have cars passing me on my right.

No, I wouldn't do this. I wouldn't ride far enough to the left to allow a car to pass on my right.

This is one reason why:

There can be a steady stream of cars in the morning rush hour, and I'm not sure I would find a suitable gap to move back into the right turn lane in time.

Another is that if you're in the turn with cars passing on your right, you might find it tough to find a gap that allows you to shift back to the right after coming out of the turn.
It also looks like being to the left of a right turning car in that turn could get you squeezed into the left lane after coming out of the turn. Drivers going straight through the intersection in that lane wouldn't expect this.

I think you're already doing it correctly. It's the drivers who are wrong in this case. Undoubtedly the drivers initially see you (since they do go around you) but they either misjudge your speed and think they have enough time/space to merge back into the RT lane, or they just don't care. Either way, I would continue to ride as you are in the leftish part of the RT lane.

Somebody has to bring this up: It looks like there is a decent side path alongside both roads. What are your reasons for not using this?

Take which lane? I'm already taking the lane for my destination.

The turning lane, you have as much right to use the whole lane to turn as a cager does.

I would do the green.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4390438667_6c85a7896e_o.jpg

Oh.... are you turning right at that spot? I thought you were going straight. If you're turning right, you're already doing it right. Don't leave enough room for cars to pass on the right if you're turning right.

It sounds like you are already doing everything you should be doing. The only other thing really to consider is avoiding this intersection completely since it seems like the risk of getting right hooked is very high. Or perhaps attach a flag to your ride??? Maybe find a way to hop onto that side path a block or two before this intersection... Then resume riding on the road when you are safely away from this intersection. Maybe you can get law enforcement to monitor and cite drivers that are violating that solid white line.

Another thing you can do is to complain to local law enforcement about the problem drivers. Keep complaining and they'll eventually send a cop out there one morning when you ride by. Send the complaints in writing if you have to.

Then the driver who couldn't wait 5 seconds for you gets to wait 30 minutes while the cop has him pulled over.

I'd go with the above green line suggestion as well. The right turn lane seems wide enough to stay right and allow for cars to safely pass. The concrete path looks inviting as well if it's not a sidewalk.

I also would look at taking the thru lane and then turning right after the concrete Island. Avoiding the ROTL all together.
yellow line is an option for me.139191

I encounter a similar situation frequently.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=19810&sll=36.456636,-95.712891&sspn=52.52794,134.912109&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Wilmington,+New+Castle,+Delaware+19810&t=k&ll=39.828808,-75.52785&spn=0.000869,0.001388&z=20&iwloc=A

I'll monitor traffic in my mirror and adjust my speed as necessary to accomodate any last minute right turning traffic. So long as you are entering the necked-down area of the right turn lane with no one to your left, you have nothing to worry about. A mirror makes it easy to adjust your speed to stay in front of or behind any other potential right turning traffic.

I tried the green line once, and the cars would get waayyyyy too close for comfort. I think that position puts me too far outside of a driver's normal field of perception.

The side path will actually be an option when the weather gets better. Right now its covered with snow and ice in parts, so that's why I haven't been using it.

It won't matter in another month though when I start working from home permanently.

I also would look at taking the thru lane and then turning right after the concrete Island. Avoiding the ROTL all together.
yellow line is an option for me.139191

Only problem there is that you run the problem of being stuck at a red, now making an illegal right. Not a deal breaker in my opinion.

If the intersection is that dicey, I'd be apt to jump on the adjoining mup/sidewalk and avoid the whole thing entirely, rejoining the roadway afterwards.

I think the best you can do in this situation is take the left tire track to give you optimum avoidance maneuvering room. A helmet cam capturing some of these idiots and then reporting to the police might be an interesting project.

I'll try some of these suggestions. The concern I have with riding in the outside thru traffic lane is I would have cars passing me on my right.

There can be a steady stream of cars in the morning rush hour, and I'm not sure I would find a suitable gap to move back into the right turn lane in time.

Also, it's a solid white, so it's not legal for you to cross back over it to make the turn. And, as you point out, even if it were then trying to find a break in the inside traffic would be difficult.

Honestly it sounds like you're doing the right thing already from your description.

I think your course looks to be the most prudent. The problem is that most drivers will probably not drop behind a cyclist. They will want to pass the cyclist and, of course, once they have passed the cyclist, they forget about them. It is just a spot that needs constant vigilence and some luck. Maybe more than some luck.

I had a similar experience commuting last week. Driver just couldn't wait and passed me right before the end of our right turn only lane, with me in the center of it.

I think you're doing the best you can. I suspect the pork-chop island is the source of some of the crowding, where drivers passing on your left plan poorly and cut in too close to you in order to avoid it.

The good thing about riding in the center of the right turn lane, or slightly left of the center, is you have lots of room for evasive maneuvers. Also, drivers passing you will telegraph their intentions by encroaching into your lane before they get dangerously close. Yes, they make you hit the brakes and maybe move right a bit, but it's usually more annoying than dangerous.

As you approach the critical area where righ hooks are a concern, turn your head left and look back at what drivers are doing. This may discourage them from trying to pass, but also give you more advance warning.

It looks like you're riding the proper way with the red line. The green line encourages a vehicle to squeeze you in your lane so I wouldn't take that route.
I have this same problem and I'm guessing in most big cities in the world that this is happening. The only thing I can add is to have your hands ready on
the brakes and to practice making really tight turns, since you and the vehicles are both turning right; you might be able to avoid a close call by just
turning at the same time in the same lane. Maybe you're already familiar with the "QUICK TURN", but if you're not this may also help:

http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/chapter5a.htm (http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/chapter5a.htm)







I would do the green.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4390438667_6c85a7896e_o.jpg

What intersection is that? I know on the south side down here, they are fairly good about clearing all the snow off the paths(paved and sidewalk paths). I would think that most days they would be clear from it melting though, no? Doesn't seem too shady there to prevent the sun from melting it.

You're handling the intersection fine. I like the suggestions of contacting the traffic unit and using a mirror. The traffic unit is unlikely do to much unless there are lots of cyclists, though, since they could sit for quite a while before a cyclist 'causes' someone to impropertly merge into the turn lane.

Also, you could get an Airzound and give a toot to anyone who really cuts you off. If you ride the same route at regular times of day, some drivers will eventually get the message that they didn't have time to pass you. I bet a lot of them ascribe the theory that any pass without physical contact was an acceptable pass.

What intersection is that? I know on the south side down here, they are fairly good about clearing all the snow off the paths(paved and sidewalk paths). I would think that most days they would be clear from it melting though, no? Doesn't seem too shady there to prevent the sun from melting it.
SH128 (Interlocken Loop) and Interlocken Pkwy in Broomfield. The path is shaded where it drops down below the highway and it doesn't melt there. They've also been doing a terrible job this winter keeping it clean. I haven't seen it without snow yet.

Entrance to the path is also a bit weird. I have to cross two crosswalks to get to it from the PnR. When I get off the bus, I'm only on the road for a mile, and waiting for it to be safe to cross at the crosswalks add quite a bit to the time it takes to get to work.

The road is the quickest path to work, and that intersection is really the only trouble I have.

The green line encourages a vehicle to squeeze you in your lane so I wouldn't take that route.

I'd rather be squeezed a little then right hook squeezed a lot. Don't forget it's a 45 mph zone.

If you say to the OP that it's fine just the way he was doing it, then what's the point? He is still worried about the right hook. THe green line mostly eliminates the right hook, but this change would present other set of challenges that IMO are less dangerous then what the red line brings into concern.

I'd rather be squeezed a little then right hook squeezed a lot. Don't forget it's a 45 mph zone.

If you say to the OP that it's fine just the way he was doing it, then what's the point? He is still worried about the right hook. THe green line mostly eliminates the right hook, but this change would present other set of challenges that IMO are less dangerous then what the red line brings into concern.
The green line is not a favorite of mine. Too many cars squeeze really close and the edge of the roadway is covered in gravel right now due to the last few snow storms.

I feel the right hooks are easier to handle than the real close passes I get in the green line. The lane isn't all that wide to begin with.

I had a similar experience commuting last week. Driver just couldn't wait and passed me right before the end of our right turn only lane, with me in the center of it.

I think you're doing the best you can. I suspect the pork-chop island is the source of some of the crowding, where drivers passing on your left plan poorly and cut in too close to you in order to avoid it.

The good thing about riding in the center of the right turn lane, or slightly left of the center, is you have lots of room for evasive maneuvers. Also, drivers passing you will telegraph their intentions by encroaching into your lane before they get dangerously close. Yes, they make you hit the brakes and maybe move right a bit, but it's usually more annoying than dangerous.

As you approach the critical area where righ hooks are a concern, turn your head left and look back at what drivers are doing. This may discourage them from trying to pass, but also give you more advance warning.This, plus, if you get the feeling that a motorist is about to pull such a bonehead move, put your left arm straight out with the palm facing behind (and having a blinkie on that left wrist can help).

Document the problem, and try to get the local Public Works to install a barrier there to prevent people from doing that in the first place.

Document the problem, and try to get the local Public Works to install a barrier there to prevent people from doing that in the first place.

Now THAT would fix the problem!

I would probably take the green line, but you said that didn't work for you. Taking the red line is the proper thing to do as others have said.

Me, I'd probably find a back road and avoid it all together. I wouldn't do it, but if you ride erratically (weaving across the entire lane) the cars may give you more room. As seen in another thread, put on a safety vest and may they'll think your a LEO.

This is a pretty common problem, even in a motor vehicle. Some drivers just can't stand to get behind anyone who is leaving a gap in traffic in front of them, so they HAVE TO get in front of you - it's like a moran law or something. Best you can do is stick to your current line, keep your eyes open for these jerks as you approach the turn and leave yourself plenty of bailout room to turn with them.

Interesting, in that the lane line is striped solid all the way to the traffic island, indicating in most states that you aren't supposed to cross that line (Safe to cross dashed lines; not so for solid lines). This may be a big part of the problem ;-)

I have to laugh... An LCI suggesting that paint should stop cars from crossing? LOL

I'm with chipcom on this one. Happens a lot when motoring - more of a tight merge vs. a traditional right hook. As other pointed out use a mirror (to avoid the surprise) and also be prepared to slow if needed to give the last second merger some bumper space. That is exactly what I do when motoring.

SH128 (Interlocken Loop) and Interlocken Pkwy in Broomfield. The path is shaded where it drops down below the highway and it doesn't melt there. They've also been doing a terrible job this winter keeping it clean. I haven't seen it without snow yet.

Entrance to the path is also a bit weird. I have to cross two crosswalks to get to it from the PnR. When I get off the bus, I'm only on the road for a mile, and waiting for it to be safe to cross at the crosswalks add quite a bit to the time it takes to get to work.

The road is the quickest path to work, and that intersection is really the only trouble I have.

Use http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/ with a mini route, to highlight the intersection. There are too many interlocken XXX streets to know exactly what you are talkiing about. If it is where I am thinking, there's a path by it you could use. Worst is by best buy and stables, in shade and no maintenance

Your current blue line is way way too dangerous and unpredictable. I have to ride with similar drivers and so please don't set a "unexpected rider" example. I can't imagine cars racing past you. Traffic is not heavy and at least by 8 to 8:30 traffic is reasonable on that road.



You have 3 valid options:

1- green line, but left enough that you are not in the gravel
2- yellow line, if you are comfortable with crossing the turn lane and with traffic passing you on the right.
3- red line, the alternative on the pedometer link.


Reference images:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=80021&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.922255,50.712891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Broomfield,+Jefferson,+Colorado+80021&ll=39.916671,-105.110216&spn=0.00095,0.00257&t=h&z=19

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3510911

The ped link shows two routes as a loop. The lower one should match the green line. The upper one on the neighboring MUP. Usually Brmfd plows the MUP's, but you may have a few ice issues.

OP, the problem with your riding line is that you are on the left side of the right turn lane. You should be on the right side of the turn lane, somewhere between the middle of the lane and the redge. When roads are bad, the best line is about where the passenger side wheels run. I usually run just a few inches to the right of the right wheel and don't have trouble with cars racing past me or too much gravel in the road. [Now riding on the shoulder, or in "bike lanes" asks for a ton of gravel]

That is not a right hook - its lane sharing, which is OK when the lanes are that wide. I would only worry if I saw a tractor trailer in my mirror.

It looks like you're riding the proper way with the red line. The green line encourages a vehicle to squeeze you in your lane so I wouldn't take that route.

But the red line encourages vehicles to cut in front of him to take the right. I wouldn't think twice about this turn - green line all the way. Just leave a few feet on the right to move that way if needed. It looks like the lane actually gets much wider in the turn itself, near the crosswalk - more than enough room to share.

Your current blue line is way way too dangerous and unpredictable. I have to ride with similar drivers and so please don't set a "unexpected rider" example. I can't imagine cars racing past you. Traffic is not heavy and at least by 8 to 8:30 traffic is reasonable on that road.



You have 3 valid options:

1- green line, but left enough that you are not in the gravel
2- yellow line, if you are comfortable with crossing the turn lane and with traffic passing you on the right.
3- red line, the alternative on the pedometer link.


Reference images:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=80021&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.922255,50.712891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Broomfield,+Jefferson,+Colorado+80021&ll=39.916671,-105.110216&spn=0.00095,0.00257&t=h&z=19

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3510911

The ped link shows two routes as a loop. The lower one should match the green line. The upper one on the neighboring MUP. Usually Brmfd plows the MUP's, but you may have a few ice issues.
I made a mistake, its Interlocken Blvd and Interlocken Loop.

Also, I'm following the red line. The drivers are taking the blue line. (Did you even read the first post?)

Green line is not a safe route. I've stated why.

Yellow line, I don't feel comfortable with that. Its illegal, and puts me at odds with the stream of right turning cars.

The side path will be an option at a later date - right now it has snow and ice in spots. Also, the entrance coming from the PnR is awkward, requires crossing two cross walks, meanders away from the road and rolls. The road is straight and flat.

My solution involves being more vigilant at the intersection, and I have found sticking my left arm up for signaling the right turn actually for some reasons keep people from trying this right hook. I used to stick my right arm out to signal.

OP, the problem with your riding line is that you are on the left side of the right turn lane. You should be on the right side of the turn lane, somewhere between the middle of the lane and the redge. When roads are bad, the best line is about where the passenger side wheels run. I usually run just a few inches to the right of the right wheel and don't have trouble with cars racing past me or too much gravel in the road. [Now riding on the shoulder, or in "bike lanes" asks for a ton of gravel]
Sounds like a motorists reply - You should be at the edge of the road!

I've explained why taking the right edge of the road is troublesome. You think the right hooking is bad, try having cars pass within inches of you in the lane. Also, there's lots of gravel on these roads right now.

Agreed the 3 foot rule is not being followed. I'd bet most motorists are not aware of it. As as aside did you see tht Ritter had an accident and is in the hospital.

I didn't say on the edge of the road, I said between the right tire track and a foot from the edge. Normal vehicle traffic should move most debris off to the side. Most motorists would like us to be off on the shouldere, and that is NOT what I said.

That roadway is not an uphill, but a downhill. You should have no problem going 20. If traffic is 45, that's only a 25 mph difference. If you are in the middle, or right middle of the lane, the vehicles should not have a problem getting around you. If you don't have a mirror, get one and try to time your speed so you are not hitting the intersection the same time as the traffic clump.

If you think that is fun, you should try about 1 mile north on 2 lane Industrial. It can get hairy when you have 45 mph traffic on both sides of the road.

The yellow path is not illegal, just not the shortest route to a right turn. It is much safer than riding on the left side of the lane.

I would do the green.



I would do the green line also, unless the right turn lane is so narrow that cars cannot pass safely on my left. In that case I would actually try and pick up my speed in the right turn lane and take more of the lane with the flow of traffic (which should, ha ha, be slowing down in this lane) and go around to the right.

It appears that beyond the photo there is a point where traffic, car or bike, is expected to enter the right turn lane and then, when the strip becomes SOLID, not make a decision to re-enter the forward lanes if you discover you have made a mistake. And similarly, folks who discover they 'should have turned right' should not be taking the blue line...car, or bike. If the intersection is not well marked, mayhem may thus result.

roughstuff

This, plus, if you get the feeling that a motorist is about to pull such a bonehead move, put your left arm straight out with the palm facing behind (and having a blinkie on that left wrist can help).

+1 , also be ready with something to throw at the drivers who pull this move.

This, plus, if you get the feeling that a motorist is about to pull such a bonehead move, put your left arm straight out with the palm facing behind (and having a blinkie on that left wrist can help).

If the driver is willing to "pull such a bonehead move" what's to say he'll stop for an outstretched hand. Better to keep your hands safely on the bars and not risk smacking a mirror. Using a helmet cam to document anything really dangerous and illegal might be helpful though.

You'll be amazed how many drivers are adamantly avoid an outstretched arm but have no problem coming within inches of a bike with no outstretched hand.