Bicycle Mechanics - Craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap!

OK, this is a follow up from my post yesterday about going from 12x25 to a 11x25 10sp cassette.

So I took the brand new bike back to the shop, who agreed to swap out my cassette to an 11x25. I just took the rear wheel, and they put it on for me, no problem. I get it home, and put it up on the trainer to check it out. All the gears run smooth...except for the damn 11T. The chain is jumping like crazy, sitting up on the very tops of the cog teeth. It's not trying to jump to the 12, it's just trying to stay on the tops of the teeth. I played with the barrel adjuster, and the limit screw, and I can tell it's not that.

The only thing I can think of is that the dude at the shop put back the 12T lockring. Which brings me to my question. Is the lockring the same on an 11x25 and 12x25 Ultegra 6700 cassette, or are they different? The lockring appears to be a hair larger in diameter than the bottom of the groove in the 11T cog teeth.

What else could be the problem? Chain, bike, and cassette are all brand spanking new. ANNOYING!

Maybe you need to set the limit screw so the chain can fall into the sprockets. And you probably need to re-center the chain on the other cogs as well. The tolerances on 10 speed are pretty tight.

Yep, you're right. Shimano 11 tooth and 12 tooth cassettes come with different lockrings.

Man...this shop is pissing me off. I verified on the Shimano website that yes, there are different lockrings, and they put on the 12T lockring. The size of the lockring is way too big for the 11T, that's why the chain is jumping up, not toward the next gear.

Thing is I just called the shop and asked, and the guy on the phone insisted the lockrings are the same. Guess I'll have to print out the tech sheets from Shimano and tell him "uh duh".

I hate bad service.

The shop is/are idiots. That is *basic*. If they can screw that up, they'll screw up anything.

Go elsewhere.


Personally, I'd cause a confrontation.

Man...this shop is pissing me off. I verified on the Shimano website that yes, there are different lockrings, and they put on the 12T lockring. The size of the lockring is way too big for the 11T, that's why the chain is jumping up, not toward the next gear.

Thing is I just called the shop and asked, and the guy on the phone insisted the lockrings are the same. Guess I'll have to print out the tech sheets from Shimano and tell him "uh duh".

I hate bad service.

Sometimes you just have to vote with your feet. After they straighten this out, I'd avoid these folks. Anyone can make a mistake but this is indicative of a totally non caring attitude.

BTW it's an interesting semantic paradox- if the mechanic actually gave a crap, you wouldn't have gotten it.

Problem is, the oh-so awesome "free lifetime adjustments" is through this shop. I can do my fair share of wrenching, but one of the reasons I bought from a local shop (instead of out of state, which is what I did last time I bought a bike to avoid $300 in tax...haha F*** the man!!) was so I could get free service when I felt lazy or couldn't solve some problem. But now I'm kind of afraid, laf.

Had I known then what I know now...

Problem is, the oh-so awesome "free lifetime adjustments" is through this shop.

Change that to "free lifetime vandalizing" of your bike. As others have suggested - find another shop.

Free lifetime service is worth every penny. The type of service you have received is typical of lifetime service. Rare is the case that lifetime service is worth anything. Get the lockring situation corrected and never go back - at least never get any work done on your bike.

I did that once (whilst working at a shop). Didn't know the lockrings were different. The other difference was that I actually tested the gears, found the problem and checked with the head mechanic. An ignorant mechanic is one thing (we all start that way) but not testing a system you've worked on is just stupid.

I did that once (whilst working at a shop). Didn't know the lockrings were different. The other difference was that I actually tested the gears, found the problem and checked with the head mechanic. An ignorant mechanic is one thing (we all start that way) but not testing a system you've worked on is just stupid.

You're right, there's nothing wrong with not knowing, it's not knowing that you don't know that causes problems, but what's worse is not caring.

Free lifetime service is worth every penny. The type of service you have received is typical of lifetime service. Rare is the case that lifetime service is worth anything. Get the lockring situation corrected and never go back - at least never get any work done on your bike.

Agreed. Craftsman has a lifetime warranty on their sockets, but I've had to go back to the store 3 times in one day for broken sockets (working on cars) so I upgraded to Matco and I haven't owned any craftsman since. Lifetime warranty doesn't mean much..

You guys talk as if you've never made a mistake, give the shops a break. People can have bad days, even the best. Shimano probably never told them there was a difference and is probably the only company that uses different lock-rings. I worked in several shops and was always pissed at Shimano for the stupid sneaky sh*t they pulled to make an extra buck to make your buy extra parts to get the part you needed and by my making parts model and year specific. The even left out THE MOST NEEDED gauge in a set, I called to get the one I needed and was told I would have to buy a whole new set to get one gauge. I'll bet there aren't any obvious markings to tell they're different without looking very close, and he's probably put the things on lots of other bikes without issues or yours is the first he's seen. Shimano could have put the wrong ring ring in the box too or someone could have swiped it because they lost theirs-stranger things have happened

TLC for Bikes is a shop (www.tlc4bikes.com (http://www.tlc4bikes.com)) and I am the mechanic (and owner). I will admit to any mistake and have made a few in the 38 yrs of wrenching. For years all manufactures (Shimano,Campagnolo,Sram) have used a smaller lockring on a 11t cog vs a 12t cog -- common knowledge. I do give free service in some cases but I will not advertise lifetime free service. Good/Great service is always worth paying for. I do not believe in the payscale that many shops use ($75-$90 per hr. or more). I will charge less but regardless what is charged -- if the service is good/fast/correct then a fee for that service is reasonable.

I consider it to be basic knowledge that an 11 tooth cog needs a smaller lockring than a 12 tooth cog and if I had made this mistake in my shop, because it is a pretty easy one to do, I'd fix it.

Mind you...nothing gets out my shops door until it has been soundly tested both on the stand and on the road... my customers don't mind a little dust on the tyres as they know I really make sure a bike is 110 % before I call it finished.

oops!!!! my apologies for miss-statement on lock-ring sizes, I've been out of the business for for awhile and never use 11t (prefer more gears in the middle)

I can't imagine taking my bike to a shop to swap a cassette....or is this some deal where they give you some tradein on the old one?

The OP is acting like the shop killed ran over his dog with a pickup truck. It was a mistake, big ****ing whoop. No shop has a 0% error rate on repairs/service.

The shop is/are idiots. That is *basic*. If they can screw that up, they'll screw up anything.

Go elsewhere.


Personally, I'd cause a confrontation.

You got to be kidding me.

I can't imagine taking my bike to a shop to swap a cassette....

+1

A few basic tools are required and this is not rocket science...

I dont know that I'd give up on the whole shop but I would make sure I avoided that partcular mechanic. In the two LBS I go to, there are guys I want working on my bikes and guys I don't. So make friends with the mechanics you trust.

The OP is acting like the shop killed ran over his dog with a pickup truck. It was a mistake, big ****ing whoop. No shop has a 0% error rate on repairs/service.

I wonder how much BS the OP left out that distracted the mechanic to where the mechanic mixed up the lock rings.

If the former VP is such a VIP ends up MIA with the VC we'll all be on KP.

The OP is acting like the shop killed ran over his dog with a pickup truck. It was a mistake, big ****ing whoop. No shop has a 0% error rate on repairs/service.
I don't think the real problem is in having the wrong lockring installed; that kind of oversight can happen to anyone. The problem was in insisting there is no difference in lockrings. As noted by several posters above, every maker uses a smaller lockring for 11T cogs than for 12T and above cogs and that should indeed be "common knowledge".

I don't think the real problem is in having the wrong lockring installed; that kind of oversight can happen to anyone. The problem was in insisting there is no difference in lockrings. As noted by several posters above, every maker uses a smaller lockring for 11T cogs than for 12T and above cogs and that should indeed be "common knowledge".

+ 1

Plus, the bike should have been tested on the stand, and on the road, so it could be confirmed that the job was done properly. Testing is part of quality control and would have identified there was a problem to the mechanic so that it could be corrected.

EDIT: Oops, now I see that the OP only brought the wheel in, so no way the bike could have been tested on the stand or on the road.

+ 1

Plus, the bike should have been tested on the stand, and on the road, so it could be confirmed that the job was done properly. Testing is part of quality control and would have identified there was a problem to the mechanic so that it could be corrected.

Hillrider said it perfectly, anyone could have made this mistake under the circumstances, the sin was in insisting that they didn't.

The mechanic might be blamed for not thinking or being distracted, but testing wasn't an option because he only had the wheel.

Loving all the shade tree faux mechanics chiming in. Especially the ones who diagnose the problem after it's been identified. Mistakes are made.


Thing is I just called the shop and asked, and the guy on the phone insisted the lockrings are the same. Guess I'll have to print out the tech sheets from Shimano and tell him "uh duh".

Yet they have they apparently are more capable of the task then you are. You need to accept that a simple mistake was made.

OK, gee, thanks for some of you turning this into MY screw up. Here's the "BS" that caused the mechanic to screw up.

1) Went to the shop to initally look at bikes. Guy wanted to put me on a bike waaaaay too big for me. I overlooked that because I was not fitted, but any "basic" chart will tell you what he was recommending was way too big unless I had the biggest upper body in the history of the world.

2) Asked to upgrade cassette to 11-25. Put on upgraded cassette, but a 12-25. Mind you, this was in an email I sent him, as well as verbal instructions. Could not follow either.

3) Had to bring the bike in prior to all of this because the bike was given to me with a very bad front derailleur rub...did not even run through the gears (apparently) to check this simple problem.

4) Once I discovered the wrong cassette, took it back immediately to have it replaced to what I originally ordered. Put on the right cassette, but wrong lockring.

5) Called last night to tell them the problem, to which I was specifically told "THERE ARE NOT DIFFERENT LOCKRINGS FOR 11T AND 12T CASSETTES".

6) Took wheel in today to get right lockring put on, and the same guy is there, ready to argue with me. Mechanic: "you're wrong, there is no different lockring", to which I immmediately point out another bike IN THEIR SHOP with an 11T cassette, with an 11T lockring.

7) Mechanic finally takes into back, muttering to himself like I'm some dumbass, when he's the idiot who didn't even know this "basic knowledge".

8) I get wheel from him, and notice he put on a 105 11T LOCKRING! This was an Ultegra cassette!!! I tell him I'd like the Ultegra 11T lockring since I paid for that.

9) Finally puts on correct 11T lockring, hands me the wheel, and walks away, saying nothing. I turn and walk out, for the last time.

I was never rude, or arugumentative with the guy. I just insisted to have them fix the problem to my satisfcation. I had to take the bike in THREE TIMES within the first week of having the bike for different issues, all related to their inability to do quality work. This guy had the attitude like he knew everything, and I was just some dumb shlub. I'm sure he deals with a lot of dumb people on a daily basis, but even when he was proven wrong, he didn't even bother to apologize or admit his mistake.

And for all of you who think this was my fault, or I overreacted, you are all just talking out of your ass. You don't know the facts, so save your breath. Some of you guys have the exact same attitude as this mechanic. I have a right to be upset with the lack of service. My bike came out of the shop not at all ready to go, with the wrong parts on it. I made it as clear as I could what upgrades I wanted, and they couldn't handle these simple things. And when I wanted the problems resolved, it was like pulling teeth, and in the end, I WAS RIGHT. The only mistake I made was buying from this shop, and trusting that their mechanics could build and tune a brand new bike properly.

if the former vp is such a vip ends up mia with the vc we'll all be on kp.

asap.

+1

A few basic tools are required and this is not rocket science...

Believe it or not, I can do this. The bike was brand new, and I wanted an 11-25 to start with. He f**ked that up too, so I simply took the wheel back so he could swap it out. Yes, I could have taken the cassette off myslef, taken it back and then let him hand me the correct cassette, then put that new one on myself. But it was easier to just let him swap it...so I thought.

Hmmm... I wonder if he tightened the lockring sufficiently.



[We'll have you afraid to ride in no time. :D ]

Why don' we call this a dead horse and move on instead of making it a referendum on poor attitude at the LBS vs. finicky hard to please consumers.

Based on that statement alone, I label you an idiot.

Nah. DieselDan's okay. We all have occasional attitude problems (especially me).

FBinNY, on the other hand...




Care to name the store? Does it begin with 'P'? Also, please put your location in your profile.

Nah. DieselDan's okay. We all have occasional attitude problems (especially me).

FBinNY, on the other hand...

Hey!! I certainly don't have an attitude problem!!, Friends tell me I've got PLENTY of attitude.

Hmmm... I wonder if he tightened the lockring sufficiently.



[We'll have you afraid to ride in no time. :D ]

I bet he forgot to install the Shimano spacer behind the cassette.

This guy had the attitude like he knew everything, and I was just some dumb shlub. I'm sure he deals with a lot of dumb people on a daily basis, but even when he was proven wrong, he didn't even bother to apologize or admit his mistake.

I've seen this attitude on a lot of dudes in shops, as if being paid automatically makes you a pro... it appears that mechanical aptitude is something you either have or you don't, and no amount of posturing makes a lick of difference.

Should have been easy to spot the 12t lockring fouling the 11t cog. A bloody no-brainer if you ask me. Dude's a knobshackle, plain and simple.

This thread makes me even more appreciative of my favorite LBS! I was there a week ago yesterday with my granddaughter and her friend, they bought a couple of entry level bikes. The people there spent hours fitting them and making sure everything was set up to their liking, including two adjustments to the stem height on one and a no-cost saddle trade on the other. I hope it's alright to mention their name: Laketown Bicycles in West Jordan, Utah.

Knobshackle? I like that.

It's a simple mistake to mix up the lockrings from the old 12t and new 11t cassette, but it's an easily avoidable one, too. I know the rapid turn-around environment of the LBS is different than the production line environment I'm used to, but there's one process which should carry over: Line clearance. Doesn't it just make sense that you don't have similar looking parts in the active workspace at the same time?
My operators are required to do verified counts on thousands of parts at both job startup and shutdown, and reconcile any differences between materials issued/used/returned. I'd think the same could be done (without all the FDA & ISO paperwork we fill out) in an LBS. Remove lockring and cassette, zip-tie them together to give back to customer, remove new one from box and install. Unless the factory supplied the wrong lockring (which is a possibility), it's going to be the right one.

Just a thought. Any reasons why this wouldn't work?