On my way into work tonight, I was approaching a light on a street that crosses Washington (6 lanes) that was about to turn in my favor and saw a car coming from the right that I knew was going to run the light.
She didn't. She came to a stop 3/4 of the way through the intersection (front bumper about 3 feet past the yellow lines). I pulled up to her door and tapped on the window. It was an older lady, and she didn't know that she was that far out. It looked like she had a bandage around her head, though it might have been part of a bad wig. She said she was sorry, she'd back up. By that time the light was about to change, and there were cars lined up at the crosswalk - I was pretty sure she'd back into one of them, so I told her not to. The light changed and I got out of there as quick as I could.
I made a note of her plate number as she drove off, and was planning on calling the police when I got to work, but just around the block I ran into a police officer stopped at a red light. I pulled up to his window, and gave him the info and the direction she was headed. He turned on his lights and said he would go check on her.
I hope she's okay. If she didn't hear the cars honking at her, or know she was in the middle of the intersection, or see me until I hit her window really hard several times, I don't think she should be on the road...
Anyways.
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
I once saw an elderly gentleman cruising along in an elderly Ford with right hand side rear door wide open. Cars behind him were honking and flashing their lights but he did not seem to notice. As he stopped at a red light a pedestrian run over to him, said something and slammed the door shut. The gentleman seemed utterly surprised and confused. When I passed the ped I asked her what had happened. She told me she had first said "Excuse me" but there was no response. She had to SHOUT to get his attention. He was apparently nearly deaf.
--J
John E
Our society has become so automobile-dependent that a typical senior feels that he/she will lose his/her freedom if his/her driving privilege is revoked. What can we do about the very serious problem of motorists who have unintentionally become public menaces because of deteriorating physical or mental facilities?
1) Support public transit and advocate senior-friendly augmentations of existing service.
2) Support neighborhood electric vehicles and an interconnected network of 25-30mph streets, which are great for bicyclists, pedestrians, and mobility scooter operators, as well.
3) Support stricter standards for obtaining and retaining a driving permit. This applies across ALL age groups. (Since I'll turn 54 next week, on what would have been Tullio Campagnolo's 103rd birthday, I do not endorse age discrimination.)
mcavana
can't find the article. read it yesturday. apparently here in florida some 92 year old man used to use his riding lawnmower to visit family and friends... and he attached a basket to it for grocery shopping. he just got killed in an accident. (a car accident when he was bringing home some groceries in the mower)
BMXTRIX
How about taking care of our parents when they get old?
I don't know about you guys, but children have as much responsibility to take care of their parents as our parents did raising us when we were incapable of doing so ourselves.
It may be tough to tell your parent that it is time to move in with you or to be close, but when I am older I will insist upon it with my father should he reach that point, and I hope my son will do the same with me.
Not a matter of responsiblity, but a matter of loving my family and being loved you know?
twahl
The idea of taking care of family and communities solving their own problems has fallen out of favor. I was just disgusted by a commercial "I don't think I've ever heard President Bush even talk about it" concerning health insurance. How is it the President of the United States' problem that people don't have health insurance? 100 years ago, communities took care of people that couldn't care for themselves. Churches took care of elderly members that needed assistance. There was no waste in this sort of effort, because effort produced a direct result. Now the attitude seems to be "let's tax everyone that is capable so we can have programs to take care of those that aren't". It's not working, the bureaucracy sucks up all the effort to feed itself before it even begins to solve problems.
Fpr the most part people are of good nature. They want to help people that need help, they want to solve problems. Local problems are solved by local people, and they are generally solved in a very efficient manner when people organize on a local level instead of looking for some national program to provide crosswalk signals to 7-Eleven.
wabbit
One problem for the elderly is if they live in an area where there isn't much transport.Once I was out on a ride and passing through a burb, when I saw this really old,frail lady getting into her car. I thought, yikes. But that area is way out in the boonies and nothing is within walking distance and buses come like once an hour. OTOH, someone like that can be a menace. I remember a story about an elderly lady who backed her car over a little kid and killed her; apparently she was stone deaf and didn't hear people screaming at her to stop.
randya
"Bike will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no bike."
Interesting variant on the old Furry Freak Bros. quote... :D
Chris L
The idea of taking care of family and communities solving their own problems has fallen out of favor.
That's because communities aren't prepared to do it anymore.
I was just disgusted by a commercial "I don't think I've ever heard President Bush even talk about it" concerning health insurance. How is it the President of the United States' problem that people don't have health insurance? 100 years ago, communities took care of people that couldn't care for themselves. Churches took care of elderly members that needed assistance. There was no waste in this sort of effort, because effort produced a direct result.
Now the attitude seems to be "let's tax everyone that is capable so we can have programs to take care of those that aren't".
In effect, it's just a modernised version of the principle that was around 100 years ago. The only difference is that 100 years ago, people probably donated to the chruches and so on voluntarily. Now that the voluntary donations have just about dried up (apart from people looking for a tax deduction), the funding has to come from somewhere else. In terms of the overall financial position of people in the community, it makes no real difference. The issue is just who administers the system. For all the "progress" and technological change we constantly hear of, people seem to be less capable of looking after each other now than ever before.
The reason it doesn't work is that solving these problems generally requires more than just throwing money at them.
Fpr the most part people are of good nature. They want to help people that need help, they want to solve problems.
I disagree totally. People will talk about being good natured and all the things "I'd to do to help if I could". And while everyone is going around patting themselves on the back, there is little cohesive activity taking place. A case in point was a "good news" story in a local newspaper here a while back. A wealthy guy put up some money to purchase an electric wheelchair for a disabled child, and the media jumped on the "everyone on the Gold Coast has big hearts" bandwagon. The truth it, it was just one guy who actually did something about it, while everyone else ran around saying "gee, this is such an unfortunate situation". That to me makes a good-natured individual, not a good-natured community.
catatonic
The idea of taking care of family and communities solving their own problems has fallen out of favor. I was just disgusted by a commercial "I don't think I've ever heard President Bush even talk about it" concerning health insurance. How is it the President of the United States' problem that people don't have health insurance? 100 years ago, communities took care of people that couldn't care for themselves. Churches took care of elderly members that needed assistance. There was no waste in this sort of effort, because effort produced a direct result. Now the attitude seems to be "let's tax everyone that is capable so we can have programs to take care of those that aren't". It's not working, the bureaucracy sucks up all the effort to feed itself before it even begins to solve problems.
Fpr the most part people are of good nature. They want to help people that need help, they want to solve problems. Local problems are solved by local people, and they are generally solved in a very efficient manner when people organize on a local level instead of looking for some national program to provide crosswalk signals to 7-Eleven.
I dunno where you live, but everywhere I've lived, nobody even wanted to know who their neighbors were, let alone have much of anyhting to do with them....with an attitude like that, how would anyone get them to do anything good and decent?
Really, sometimes it's easier just to tax the hell out of people and have a group of paid individuals hand out the benefits, medical care, etc, than have to try to change the way millions of people think. People have basically had it driled in their heads since they were young that strangers are out to abduct your kids, rob you, and in general be a massive prick to you and everyone around you...Really, with the propaganda I saw on kids TV shows as a kid, I'm amazed we are only scared of our neighbors and not actively trying to fend them off to sate some fight or flight instinct.
blendingnoise
I dunno where you live, but everywhere I've lived, nobody even wanted to know who their neighbors were, let alone have much of anyhting to do with them....with an attitude like that, how would anyone get them to do anything good and decent?
Really, sometimes it's easier just to tax the hell out of people and have a group of paid individuals hand out the benefits, medical care, etc, than have to try to change the way millions of people think. People have basically had it driled in their heads since they were young that strangers are out to abduct your kids, rob you, and in general be a massive prick to you and everyone around you...Really, with the propaganda I saw on kids TV shows as a kid, I'm amazed we are only scared of our neighbors and not actively trying to fend them off to sate some fight or flight instinct.
That is really interesting that you mentioned that, as it echoes some of my own sentiments when I moved from India over to the US a couple of years ago.
In India, I never saw any shows telling kids to be wary of strangers. Basically having shows (local news nowadays) that just presented a small part of life as being such a huge thing that everyone needs to be on the lookout for I think leads people to live in the fear of abduction or an attack. Michael Moore (I personally agree with some things he says but feel he is reaching sometimes too) addresses this point in Bowling for Columbine if any of you had the chance to watch that. For those that have not, a part of it is about how the news -murders, robberies and violent crime- , how the newscasters speak and so on, lead us to live in this state of fear almost. He also contrasts a town in Canada to the US to further prove his point.
Basically my parents and family members were the ones that told me these things and how to take care of oneself and what to watch out for. Education is so important. The more you know, the better off you will be.
I lived in Bombay/Mumbai for a couple of years before I moved over here and have lived in a small village to the busy city of Bombay. In the smaller towns most people practiced community living where neighbours often raised their kids together and shared their lives with each other. In the cities people were more private but within a couple of months of moving somewhere you would often get to know the people in your building to the point of hanging out with them. If my parents were out when I came home from school I would just go over to any one of my neighbours and hang out on their couch till my parents came back. We had numerous spare keys with our neighbours incase we lost ours or our dog needed to be walked. Bombay is more crowded than Philly I would say.
I say that to illustrate the difference, when my family moved to a nice suburban locale into a townhouse in a huge community on the edge of Valley Forge Park. For a long time I only waved at neighbours in their driveways on my way out. Eventually I started walking up to them and now know a little bit about 3 of them. Would I be comfortable leaving keys with them? No.
I know there is a difference when you have lived there for a while, or grown up there as you probably grew up with your neighbours and have a good relationship by now. But whatever happened to stopping by with a small dish of food for when newcomers to your neighbourhood hadn't had a chance to unpack yet?
I am 22 and have a lot more to learn but these were thoughts that were part of my "culture schock" I guess one could say. It did take some getting used to.
It stands out, that people have become very encapsulated in their own lives that they don't realize that humans will thrive best if we come together. Kinda like those small silver fish (the ones that all move as one) swimming in schools to thwart off larger threats. Strength in numbers.
Do I think all people are like this? No. I have met numerous good souls, none are neighbours though.
LittleBigMan
Our society has become so automobile-dependent that a typical senior feels that he/she will lose his/her freedom if his/her driving privilege is revoked.
I agree wholeheartedly. My own parents need to drive to do just about anything, since even walking a short distance to the store in this car-dependent society is an exercise in futility.
There was a time when an elderly person could still walk to the corner store, if they had the ability. My own grandmother (born in the 1890's) lived alone in an apartment in Lansing, Michigan and walked to the store for groceries. She didn't own a car. She was fortunate to live next door to a shopping center into the early 1980's.
She said, "I want to die with my boots on." One day, she returned from trudging through snow to the store, and did just that. She died happy and strong, still able to walk to the store.
But most of us can't go shopping that way anymore. It would take me a full hour to walk to the nearest shopping area and back home again.
We have designed everything around driving cars and have become prisoners in them.
tjmaxx
used to use his riding lawnmower to visit family and friends
Well, how about one of these lawnmowers: 100 mph lawnmowers (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=14527112&method=full&siteid=50061&headline=racing-team-aims-for-the-100mph-lawnmower-name_page.html)
But, what about that guy serveral years ago who drove his john deere 1/2 way across the country (I tried finding a news story about it, but couldn't remember enough of the details for google to help).
But on topic......I don't understand why we don't have restesting for everyone every so often in the US. Anyone else out there, does your country restest? If so, is it everyone or just at a certain age?
<rant>Then there is the whole issue of being on the interstate behind the guy who varies his speed +-20 mph every 5 min, or driving 45 in the go fast lane (it happens here in OH!). Why not have graduated licenses that make you pass a special interstate test to ensure you can drive correctly before you get on the interstate. I mean, come on...you are driving not farding, shaving, eating breakfast, taking a shower, etc..... Pay attention to what you are doing.</rant>
Chris L
But on topic......I don't understand why we don't have restesting for everyone every so often in the US. Anyone else out there, does your country restest? If so, is it everyone or just at a certain age?
I wasn't aware there was any kind of re-testing in this country. Although it may be different for people who actually lose their licences through breaking the law (which seems to be hard to do in anycase). The scary part is, I could get a licence tomorrow and not drive again for 50 years. The only thing the authorities would know is that I have a perfect driving record -- I'd probably get cheaper insurance as a result of "never having an accident". Yet should I then venture on to the road after 50 years of not driving I'd be a menace, and it would have nothing to do with my age.
Yes, I know the above is an extreme example, but I'm sure there are plenty of not so extreme (but just as insidious) examples out there. In fact, there are plenty of regular drivers on the Gold Coast in particular who would probably fail a test if required to sit one right now. Around 90% of all drivers here if a quote from a driving instructor a couple of years ago is to be believed.
Personally, I'd like to see all drivers re-tested every two years.
EDIT: Wasn't red.
DnvrFox
But on topic......I don't understand why we don't have restesting for everyone every so often in the US. Anyone else out there, does your country restest? If so, is it everyone or just at a certain age?
I just renewed my license (it expires on my 65th birthday in a couple of months) BY MAIL because I have had no vioations the past five years (actually, I have only had two very minor moving violations in over 50 years of driving I started driving when I was 12).
The form stated, "It is up to you to insure you have the appropriate vision for driving" or something similar. The form also asked about 5 standard questions regarding health, impairment, etc.
In other words, if I had a license over the past five years, but did no driving, and am suffering from Alzhiemers enough that I could answer the questions without truly understanding them, and had deteriorating vision that I was not aware of, I get my license renewed. Scary.
I think everyone should have an actual driving test every few years - and as to the cost, charge folks enough to cover the cost of the test.
<rant>Then there is the whole issue of being on the interstate behind the guy who varies his speed +-20 mph every 5 min, or driving 45 in the go fast lane (it happens here in OH!). Why not have graduated licenses that make you pass a special interstate test to ensure you can drive correctly before you get on the interstate. I mean, come on...you are driving not farding, shaving, eating breakfast, taking a shower, etc..... Pay attention to what you are doing.</rant>
Statistically, interstates are safer to drive in than regular streets. Out west, they are often the only way to get from one place to another. We need driving tests that insure safety on any type of street. It would be a nightmare for police to figure out graduated licenses and enforce them.
phinney
On the topic of elderly and mobility my great aunt died last year at the age of 100. She died at home in the same house she had lived in for the last 80 years or so. Her home was located in the middle of no where in the Adirondack mountains, last house on a dead end road miles from the nearest town and probably 1/4 mile from the only other house in the area. She had lived alone since her husband died probably 15 years ago. I don't know if she ever drove but I don't ever remember her driving.
She was a member of the Catholic church and had extensive family. The church members did much to help her and it seems like one of her relatives was always there visiting or taking her out and about. When I last visited her one of her sons (~70) was also there visiting. Her home was very, very modest but she had a beautiful vegetable garden which she kept up herself. She was still doing volunteer work for and donating to the church the last time I spoke with her.
HereNT
I still just hope that the officer was able to stop her and make sure she was okay...
I'm not too happy about the fact that I will never get to know what the outcome was. She could have gotten in an accident 2 blocks later, but I wouldn't know. I was trying to do what I could to help her, but I don't know if it did any good....
Anyways...
LittleBigMan
I hope she's okay. If she didn't hear the cars honking at her, or know she was in the middle of the intersection, or see me until I hit her window really hard several times, I don't think she should be on the road...
Anyways.
I remember calling the cops from the gas station I worked at about 20 years ago. A lady who seemed to be really messed up, maybe from medication, was getting gas. I didn't want her to get killed (or take someone with her) driving in that condition.
twahl
That's because communities aren't prepared to do it anymore.
In effect, it's just a modernised version of the principle that was around 100 years ago. The only difference is that 100 years ago, people probably donated to the chruches and so on voluntarily. Now that the voluntary donations have just about dried up (apart from people looking for a tax deduction), the funding has to come from somewhere else.
Check church donation records vs. the invention and growth of income taxes here in the United States. As one grows, the one you don't have any choice in, the other shrinks. There's only so much you can give, and when it's taken from you before you even see it, you are less willing to give more yourself, because you feel that the responsibility has been taken away from you.
Helping starts with individuals. I'm sorry to hear that so many of you live in communities where people don't want to know each other or help each other. I'm not a huge socializer, but when I see a neighbor that needs something that I'm capable of helping with, I help.
Seanholio
Check church donation records vs. the invention and growth of income taxes here in the United States. As one grows, the one you don't have any choice in, the other shrinks. There's only so much you can give, and when it's taken from you before you even see it, you are less willing to give more yourself, because you feel that the responsibility has been taken away from you.
Helping starts with individuals. I'm sorry to hear that so many of you live in communities where people don't want to know each other or help each other. I'm not a huge socializer, but when I see a neighbor that needs something that I'm capable of helping with, I help.
This is true. There is at least one study out there that shows a relationship between taxes and charitable donations. I'm not a churchgoer, but when I hear of a situation where I can help, I generally do. For instance, my friend's niece is just starting to get out into the world, and is currently biking to work at Togo's so she can put herself through college. I plan to have a xenon strobe sent over to help her stay safe after dark on her ride home.
Remember that society is a bunch of individuals, and that what you do becomes part of that equation.
catatonic
Ditto, it just amazes me how xenophobic society as a whole is anymore.
For a social experiement, for an entire week go and start conversations out of nowhere with 2 people a day, see how they react. Usually they will try to get out of the situation, or be openly annoyed at you. I done this once for a month...only one person actually tried to talk to me, he turned out to be a minister, and rather intrigued by my experiiment after I told him about it...but still when a minister is the only person who will even have a talk with a total stranger, that says a bit about the society we live in.
The other part is if we are so bad that we don't even know our neighbor, then how can we ever have a safe neighborhood? Part of a safe neighborhood is even having a neighboorhodd to start with, and a neighboorhood is a group of neighbors....instead we have a group of strangers....and in a group where nobody knows eachother, nobody cares for eachother, therefore is a far easier target for crime, since nobody would even know if that guy beloings there. my old car got broken into in front of 20 people that way....he hotwired the ignition and drove it around the block to gut the stereo. Everyone thought he might have "locked himself in". I was rather pissed to say the least...and really nobody cared when i walked around asking them if they could describe the person.
Screw the whole cursing on the radio and air crap, screw the drug problem...I am willing to bet if folks at the least started caring for their neighbors, we would see a good drop in crime overall, since I bet most of these folks do what they do since "nobody else cares, why should I?".
LittleBigMan
...we don't even know our neighbor...how can we ever have a safe neighborhood? ...a neighboorhood is a group of neighbors....instead we have a group of strangers...therefore is a far easier target for crime.
We want to lead the world, but we don't even know our neighbors. Silly, really.
The world is made up of neighborhoods, of which we are all a part.
DnvrFox
We want to lead the world, but we don't even know our neighbors. Silly, really.
The world is made up of neighborhoods, of which we are all a part.
I know my neighbor, and I can't stand the obsessive, compulsive, sneaky SOB! Wish I didn't know him.
Actually, I know all the other neighbors, also. Most of them are pretty nice. We made a point when we moved into a new (being built when we moved in) neighborhood to get to know everyone. We walked the neighborhood with fliers (350 houses) inviting people to pot luck and progressive dinners, and had several. I started a web page for the neighborhood. The hang up came when the SOB next door neighbor got elected president of the HOA, and immediately felt as if we were stepping on his toes because we were doing things without the HOA approval and placed every obstacle in front of us that he could. LIke publishing a notice that the web page I started was NOT the official web page - even though my web page stated the very first thing that "this is not the official web page," tearing down our meeting announcements from the postal stands (said they were illegal, although the HOA puts notices there), scheduling a HOA activity at the same time as our previously announced progressive dinner and etc. etc.!!
Of course, the HOA never did much socially.
But that is another story. Moral - you can get to know your neighbors, but they are not all real nice!
Chris L
Check church donation records vs. the invention and growth of income taxes here in the United States. As one grows, the one you don't have any choice in, the other shrinks.
Correlation is not necessarily causation. Did the taxes cause the donations to drop off, or were they the result of it? I suspect the latter is the case. In anycase, about the only time people make donations these days is when they need to lower their income for tax purposes. I suspect if that wasn't an advantage, charities would see a much smaller volume of donations than they now do.
Helping starts with individuals. I'm sorry to hear that so many of you live in communities where people don't want to know each other or help each other. I'm not a huge socializer, but when I see a neighbor that needs something that I'm capable of helping with, I help.
I do the same thing. However, we need to be realistic about what the result of it will be. To be honest I don't do it with any realistic expectations that help will ever be returned.