Advocacy & Safety - So I'm Queued up to Make a Right Turn..

.. in the right turn lane, waiting for either a gap in traffic or the light to change. I roll forward into the crosswalk so I can see oncoming, and do a foot-down stop. There is no gap forthcoming for the right-on-red, so I wait.

The crossing guard who had been quietly standing 6 feet to my right starts yelling at me to get out of the way.

At first I thought there was a pedestrian walking across that I hadn't noticed... nope... or maybe he was busting me for a bit of a rolling stop (trackstand) at the stripe before the crosswalk. Nope again.

He's yelling at me to get out of the way of the car lined up behind me (who had been quietly waiting her turn). He identifies himself as an employee of the Toronto Police department, and screams that I'm "blocking the intersection".

You know.... by stopping at a red light.

He then starts waving the car behind me to turn. Which confuses her a bit since I'm somewhat in the way.

The best comeback I could come up with was "You're making up traffic laws and you're a threat to public safety" as I got going. Pretty weak, I know.

I've been on this route since last July. I'm pretty sure I've passed him hundreds of times before, and I'm trying to figure out if this is the same guy who used to say "good morning" as I executed the exact same turning movement on a daily basis.

Maybe they changed from a friendly old guy to an angry old guy when I wasn't paying attention.

The best comeback I could come up with was "You're making up traffic laws and you're a threat to public safety" as I got going. Pretty weak, I know.


I disagree on only one point.

Your response seems quite strong to me in that it was entirely reasonable and appropriate. Weak would have been getting down on his level by getting into a shouting match.

Typical auto centric thinking... resulting in made up laws... sigh

I agree, your response was entirely appropriate and correct.

I'd try to get a hold of the crossing guards boss(s) to let them know they are using someone who doesn't understand traffic or traffic law.

I'm gonna see him every day (unless he is a temporary stand-in for that possibly-imaginary-friendlier-guy).

We'll see how things go tomorrow morning.

Heh, the crossing guard I used to deal with would stop cross traffic (with no stop sign) and wave me on (with stop sign) before I even had a chance to stop. I was riding left tire track of lane. It actually annoyed me a bit for various reason, but mainly as pedestrians (kids going out of of school) on the opposite side would still cross and I would have to stop in the middle of the intersection to avoid them. It would work a lot cleaner if they only stopped vehicle traffic for pedestrians.

Maybe your situation will happen again and you will have a better opportunity as there will be a pattern to escalate (in a good and appropriate way)

I disagree on only one point.

Your response seems quite strong to me in that it was entirely reasonable and appropriate. Weak would have been getting down on his level by getting into a shouting match.

Couldn't agree more.:thumb:

Since you're likely to see him again, I'd suggest stopping off to the side next time and calmly discussing it one on one. When approached in a non confrontational manner, most people are reasonable. Especially when they are not in a car.

call the local chief and mention the incident. that team should have a discussion about this so that they all have a clear understanding of the situation. stinks that we have to educate the officers who make safety their livelihood, huh?

I'm gonna see him every day (unless he is a temporary stand-in for that possibly-imaginary-friendlier-guy).

We'll see how things go tomorrow morning.

Bring with you a list of traffic laws that he has wrong... make sure you are citing actual code, and give a URL if possible. Then hand it to the guy. Tell him: "Study this, then we can talk."

I was amazed at the discussions that came my way when I posted the laws for cyclists outside of my cube... the majority of time I heard... "I didn't know... "

In spite of so many folks saying that so many motorists treat them well, I firmly believe that happens as some drivers are just being nice, but the majority of motorists DON'T KNOW THAT CYCLISTS ACTUALLY HAVE RIGHTS TO RIDE ON THE ROAD. Apparently that holds true for crosswalk guards too.

Beyond the basics learned in driver's ed, most drivers copy other drivers, and then assume they know the law.

I'd try to get a hold of the crossing guards boss(s) to let them know they are using someone who doesn't understand traffic or traffic law.

Requirements from the TPS Crossing Guard Web site:

�� All applicants must pass a vision test.
�� All applicants must provide a Certificate of Fitness from their family physician confirming that they
are physically fit to carry out the duties of a Crossing Guard.
�� Must not have been convicted of a criminal offence for which a pardon has not been obtained. If
a pardon was obtained, proof of pardon must be provided. If a conditional or absolute discharge
has been received, proof that the RCMP has sealed the records must be provided.
�� A security check will be conducted.

Not a word in there about knowing traffic laws. So I got nothing on him.


Since you're likely to see him again, I'd suggest stopping off to the side next time and calmly discussing it one on one. When approached in a non confrontational manner, most people are reasonable. Especially when they are not in a car.

The last time I tried this with someone who was editorializing on my lane position, their end of the discussion quickly boiled down to "I don't care what laws you quote, you should get out of the way because I said so".

I'll probably just proceed as if nothing happened and ignore further any further cat-calls from that corner. But hope springs eternal.

The only slightly alarming trend is that the new commute has very few interactions with other vehicles (and pedestrians), and yet the number of incidents with other road users has barely seemed to drop off. On my old route I'd interact with hundreds or thousands of cars and have only a few hot-heads per week, far less than I'd experience driving the same distance.

On the new commute, there was a ride home last month where I was only passed by five cars the whole way home, and every one of them either passed closer than 3' (on wide residential streets) or nearly ran me into the ditch with a right-hook/cell phone drift/etc. With this kind of sample, it's getting harder to sing the refrain that "most road users are careful/have no issues with bikes". I don't need people to like me or even respect me... if they'd just stop randomly swerving at me and/or screaming at me, that might suffice.

man... what an ahole! Sorry gc. Even if you were going forward and blocking a car from a right on red, I don't see the point of yelling.

Lot of anti-cycling crap going on these days.

Requirements from the TPS Crossing Guard Web site: Not a word in there about knowing traffic laws. So I got nothing on him...

Wow. You can be a crossing guard without knowing anything about traffic law.

This has to be brought up with someone.

I'm not the kind of person who would complain to the police at every opportunity. Having said that, this guy is actually associated with the Toronto Police Service, and he tried to 'order' the driver behind you to take an illegal action that would have put you in significant danger. I think it's a good idea to at least call the relevant division and let them know what happened. I find that crossing guards confuse the situation at intersections more often than they help. If the driver behind you was one of the idiots who just act on what they're told without thinking, you could have easily been run over.

On an unrelated note, when did the police service take over responsibility for crossing guards? I actually had to look that up before I could believe it! When I was a kid, that was the school board's responsibility.

Wow gc, I almost missed your follow-up post about the strange hostility you've been getting. My experience commuting in Mississauga and Toronto has been no more than one or two idiots for thousands of cars (that is, one or two per week.)

Where's your new commute taking you that makes it so much worse?

GC, a few points for your present plight....

If Officer Crapke hollers again about blocking traffic, there's always the old one, "I'm not blocking traffic, I AM traffic!"

For the hostile passers-by, consider a shalelleigh (sp?) -- you know, the Irish stone-on-a-stick.

And if this happens as a sequel, it'll be time to report the StuporCop.

Wow gc, I almost missed your follow-up post about the strange hostility you've been getting. My experience commuting in Mississauga and Toronto has been no more than one or two idiots for thousands of cars (that is, one or two per week.)

That was the deal on my old route. I've reduced the number of cars I encounter by 95%, and the number of lunatics seems to have stayed fixed.


Where's your new commute taking you that makes it so much worse?

It's cuts through this subdivision near the Bridal Path (yeah okay, the truth comes out... I should have seen this coming). I don't want to overstate my grievances...it's still a great ride that probably saves me 30 min a day vs driving or any other method. The issues I've had along the way I would hardly be describe as legitimate safety risks, even if they make for some A&S threads of dubious interest.

Now once a week or so I use the "diamond" lanes on Don Mills or Eglinton.... that's a more of a Tour-de-Mirrorslap.

He identifies himself as an employee of the Toronto Police department, and screams that I'm "blocking the intersection".That is how you put him back in his place. Report his words to the highest person responsible for the crossing guards, noting that his implying he was a police officer with full police authority.

Heh, the crossing guard I used to deal with would stop cross traffic (with no stop sign) and wave me on (with stop sign) before I even had a chance to stop. I was riding left tire track of lane. It actually annoyed me a bit for various reason, but mainly as pedestrians (kids going out of of school) on the opposite side would still cross and I would have to stop in the middle of the intersection to avoid them. It would work a lot cleaner if they only stopped vehicle traffic for pedestrians.
Yes, I had the same thing happen in our neighborhood at a 4-way Stop. I signaled for a left turn at the corner and he walked out into the middle of the crosswalk to my left with his 'STOP' sign. When I waited he started yelling why I wasn't going and I responded that I wasn't allowed to as long as there was a pedestrian (i.e. him) in the crosswalk. After doing this on a couple mornings he got the message and now treats me the same as other road traffic.

Sure you were in the intersection and you shouldn't have been there. You definitely got picked on because you were on a bicycle. If you were in a car nothing would have transpired. It seems the crossing guard was a total ass, next time get off your bike and tell him to get out there in the intersection right now and walk you and your bike across! Maybe go and torment him by pressing the walk button and making him walk you across like 15 times!

Be sure to ask him why he isn't a real cop and why he is so rude.

The only slightly alarming trend is that the new commute has very few interactions with other vehicles (and pedestrians), and yet the number of incidents with other road users has barely seemed to drop off. On my old route I'd interact with hundreds or thousands of cars and have only a few hot-heads per week, far less than I'd experience driving the same distance.

On the new commute, there was a ride home last month where I was only passed by five cars the whole way home, and every one of them either passed closer than 3' (on wide residential streets) or nearly ran me into the ditch with a right-hook/cell phone drift/etc. With this kind of sample, it's getting harder to sing the refrain that "most road users are careful/have no issues with bikes". I don't need people to like me or even respect me... if they'd just stop randomly swerving at me and/or screaming at me, that might suffice.

You know spring is here when... Worst part is the car windows are rolled down so stuff gets thrown out and people are yelling again.

"He identifies himself as an employee of the Toronto Police department..."

You should have asked him why they let the doughnut chef work traffic....

You know spring is here when... Worst part is the car windows are rolled down so stuff gets thrown out and people are yelling again.

Oh they yell all year 'round. You just can't hear them with the windows rolled up.

My biggest incident with stuff thrown was driving the northbound 404 a few years back. The women in the convertible in front of me finishes her happy meal and just throws everything up into the wind. She looked perplexed when I honked at her for showering my car with paper and food waste.

School PA day this AM, not a soul around.

Oh they yell all year 'round. You just can't hear them with the windows rolled up.

My biggest incident with stuff thrown was driving the northbound 404 a few years back. The women in the convertible in front of me finishes her happy meal and just throws everything up into the wind. She looked perplexed when I honked at her for showering my car with paper and food waste.

School PA day this AM, not a soul around.

March break soon also! No more crazy drivers dropping kids off in the AM - for a week :)

The only slightly alarming trend is that the new commute has very few interactions with other vehicles (and pedestrians), and yet the number of incidents with other road users has barely seemed to drop off. On my old route I'd interact with hundreds or thousands of cars and have only a few hot-heads per week, far less than I'd experience driving the same distance.

On the new commute, there was a ride home last month where I was only passed by five cars the whole way home, and every one of them either passed closer than 3' (on wide residential streets) or nearly ran me into the ditch with a right-hook/cell phone drift/etc. With this kind of sample, it's getting harder to sing the refrain that "most road users are careful/have no issues with bikes". I don't need people to like me or even respect me... if they'd just stop randomly swerving at me and/or screaming at me, that might suffice.

Here's a good question how many of the cases where an inattentive driver says "s/he swerved into my path" are more accurately the driver being distracted and swerving into the cyclists path?

There's an intersection in a school zone not far from the library that I go to and I always get a kick out of the crossing guards there. They'll either push the walk button or wait for the light to turn green for one direction (okay two given that traffic goes north/south and east/west at this intersection) and red for the other. They'll walk out into the intersection and hold up their stop signs for the traffic that is already stopped due to the red light. In the smallish town that I grew up in I remember crossing guards would stop traffic in all directions to allow the kids to cross not just one direction.

The bigger their stop sign the smaller their ...

The crossing guard at my son's school is very friendly, waving to everybody who drives by. He says good morning to me when I bike by. I think his demeanor, and paying attention to every person on the road, has reduced speeding in the school zone and I think he does a good job controlling traffic. He rides his motorcycle all the way from Durham each day to work in my neighborhood.

Yesterday morning he ate breakfast at the same restaurant I did with my wife and sister. We recognized him, but he didn't recognize us. We left just a few minutes before he did; on our way out we secretly picked up his tab.

The crossing guard at my son's school is very friendly, waving to everybody who drives by. He says good morning to me when I bike by. I think his demeanor, and paying attention to every person on the road, has reduced speeding in the school zone and I think he does a good job controlling traffic. He rides his motorcycle all the way from Durham each day to work in my neighborhood.

Yesterday morning he ate breakfast at the same restaurant I did with my wife and sister. We recognized him, but he didn't recognize us. We left just a few minutes before he did; on our way out we secretly picked up his tab.

Sounds like a nice guy!

Officers knowledge of the laws can be woefully inadequate in many cases. I'm lucky right now to live in Keene, NH where we have *** SHOCK *** HONEST cops who seem to know their stuff.

I was living in Manchester, NH which wasn't quite as good in that regard - I'm a fan of open carry laws and was harassed about even my collapsing baton at least once a week - I wasn't concealing it, so it's legal. I even had one joker try to haul me in and I had to have the sergeant come down and say "No, what are you doing? It's not against the law." - Most of that though stems from officers from another state transferring here...

States like the Commiewealth of Taxachusetts where I grew up - where the joke is "everything is illegal, it just depends on how badly the state cop wants to dick with you today."

Ah, the Massachusetts dream - said dream being about moving to another state where you can actually afford to live and not be harassed almost daily by a government who can't keep it's nose the **** out of citizens business. It's often hard to believe NH and MA are in the same country.