Touring - I bought the Nashbar!

Ok, so I bought me a 56cm Nashbar frame yesterday, now I'm gonna need to load it up with stuff!

We're going for "cheap, but good" and I'll be using it for loaded touring (TransAm in 2012!) and probably for commuting (if I can get over my paranoia about having another bike stolen).

If you have any recommendations for components (especially if you've built one of these yourself) I'd love to hear 'em!

We've got a bunch of dead MTBs at my house, and I was thinking of just sticking an Alivio groupset I have on there, with some bar-end shifters. Will those index properly/is that a good idea to save cost?

I have Alivio derailleurs and hubs on my mtb as well. My experience with them is very good. I don't see a problem. I use top-mount indexed thumbies. They should be fine with bar-ends. If you have 'em—use 'em.

The rear should index fine. The front can come close, but works better in friction anyway. (I'm using brifters and may be switching the front der to work it out...but it works pretty OK as is now.)
I picked up the same frame and size a couple days ago in the returns area (with the extra 20% off it was a whole $50).

I Built up a 58 touring frame from them last year, and will be trying some new things with this one. If this one feels even better, I'll keep the 56 and sell the 58.

I just ordered the 54cm myself to replace a damaged Cross-Check frame, so I'm looking forward to building it up.

MTB components work great with 9sp barcons. I use them with an XT M760 low-normal RD and the indexing is flawless (and hopefully will continue to be so on the new frame).

I also run with drop bars and an Avid BB7 road disc brake on the front (via the Nashbar carbon cyclocross disc fork) and a canti brake on the back. The chunky black fork looks a little weird on a touring bike but the disc is awesome.

Any opinions on brakes? I was thinking of going with V brakes on this one because they're easier to adjust and I'm more familiar with repairing them (*cough* in 33 degree weather on the side of the Katy Trail in the pouring rain *cough*) and I've never used/repaired canti's before.

But if it's going to be too much of a PITA or too much dough to get them working with my drop bars then I guess I'll learn more about cantis! :)

Cool! I'll be using some 8 speed bar ends with the new build. If I like them better, I'll put them on whichever bike I'll keep. I always thought that the front shifter on bar ends was friction anyway...are some indexed? Indexing, even for the brifters, is flawless with the rear der on mine...but fiddly with the front.

There are aero levers for drop bars that are compatable with V-brakes.
If you are using normal road brake levers, you'll need some adapters (travel agents?) to give you the right range of cable travel.
V-brakes and cantis require different amounts of cable travel.

I've heard that the v-brakes afford more stopping power and are easier to set up.

I have two pairs of tektro rl520 (http://www.tektro.com/02products/11rl.php) levers that I use on a couple of bikes and they are really nice, though I've noticed they are a bit bigger than most levers, at least the ones I've used.

Any opinions on brakes? I was thinking of going with V brakes on this one because they're easier to adjust and I'm more familiar with repairing them (*cough* in 33 degree weather on the side of the Katy Trail in the pouring rain *cough*) and I've never used/repaired canti's before.

But if it's going to be too much of a PITA or too much dough to get them working with my drop bars then I guess I'll learn more about cantis! :)

Tektro makes an inexpensive drop-bar V brake lever (RL520), which Cane Creek rebadges. Dia-Compe also makes drop-bar levers but these are kind of crappy IMHO (but until recently were the only option). Personally I'm not a huge fan of cantilevers, though they are necessary in many situations, especially with drop bars. Aside from easier set up, V brakes also have their own built-in cable stops, so no need to fuss with cable hangers, which often require tight bends in the housing. So with V's I find I often end up with better cable routing (especially if you get ones with reversible noodles).

BTW @foamy: I probably won't be able to use the hubs off of the Alivio bike, so I'll need a good recommendation for a 36 spoke wheelset, but it sounds like I'll be able to spend a little more on that if I'm going to get the groupset for cheap/free...

If the V-brake arms stick up too much, your rear rack supports can interfere with the V-brakes (as a friend of mine found out when he built up his Nashbar frame). If you don't have compatible brake levers, as Jtgyk says, you can make the conventional brake levers work using a QBP Travel Agent.

On the other side, the Nashbar touring frame doesn't have a rear brake hanger built in, so you must provide your own. Also the cut in the seat tube is on the front side, so if you're going to put a brake hanger on the seat post clamp, you must pick a seat post clamp with sufficient clearance to accommodate the hanger. I use a Surly stainless steel seatpost clamp and a Surly stainless steel hanger, which looks great but is a bit spendy. I use Avid Shorty 4s on my bike. They get the job done, but don't do it particularly quickly. (To be fair, they have a lot of weight to stop.)

...On the other side, the Nashbar touring frame doesn't have a rear brake hanger built in, so you must provide your own. Also the cut in the seat tube is on the front side, so if you're going to put a brake hanger on the seat post clamp, you must pick a seat post clamp with sufficient clearance to accommodate the hanger....

The front facing slot doesn't make a difference. I just used a regular seatpost clamp (facing with the bolt in the rear as normal) with an add on hanger....works fine.

The front facing slot doesn't make a difference.

...except when it does. I know for a fact that not every seatpost clamp/hanger combination out there works, and that not having the extra clearance that a slot would provide can make a difference.

The front facing slot doesn't make a difference. I just used a regular seatpost clamp (facing with the bolt in the rear as normal) with an add on hanger....works fine.

I tried this: the clamp I was using didn't allow either of the hangers I had to be positioned freely. I ended up cutting an additional slot on the back of the seat tube using my Dremel...

I used this hanger

140457

fits in the middle of the clamp with the bolt running through.

Doesn't matter to the clamp which position the seat tube slot is located.
the gap only serves to allow the tube to be tightened around the post.
Clamp bolt can be in the rear.

Doesn't matter to the clamp which position the seat tube slot is located.
the gap only serves to allow the tube to be tightened around the post.
Clamp bolt can be in the rear.

Agreed, it doesn't matter to the clamp where the slot is located. The issue is that there's 2 or 3 mm of metal around the hole in the hangar (the hole that your clamp's bolt goes through), and the clamp must provide at least that much space between the bolt and the seat post, or the hanger won't fit. Preferably, you want more clearance so that the hanger's not rubbing against the seat tube. If the seat tube slot were at the back of the seat tube, that would have given you about 2mm of extra clearance, which makes a difference. I'm glad for you that your clamp and hangar worked and you didn't have to think about this, but I assure you that not everybody is as fortunate as you.

I used this hanger

140457

fits in the middle of the clamp with the bolt running through.

I have the same hanger. With my clamp, it simply will not fit unless there's a slot in the back of the seat tube. Perhaps you should let everyone know which clamp you're using? Sounds like it allows more space between the clamp bolt and seat tube than many of the standard low-end clamps...

Don't know the brands, just got a generic clamp and the hanger from my LBS.
Perhaps my clamp is the key factor...looks like it may extend back a bit more than yours maybe?
I was operating under the presumption that they were all pretty much the same.
Here's pix of what I have:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_hjk-KjFgGfk/S5MtCTbDkBI/AAAAAAAABd4/PrnVIkR0934/s512/clamp%20hanger1.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_hjk-KjFgGfk/S5MtZcifOZI/AAAAAAAABd0/rU9QBkQ1lcg/s512/clamp%20hanger%202.jpg

Moves freely and everything.
YMMV

...except when it does. I know for a fact that not every seatpost clamp/hanger combination out there works, and that not having the extra clearance that a slot would provide can make a difference.

...sorry...didn't know there was that much difference in spec. Come to think of it I DID tell the guy at the LBS about the forward facing slot and he just gave me the clamp & said not to worry about it. Maybe he just knew of one that he knew from experience would work.

My apologies.

Here's (http://cgi.ebay.com/SEAT-POST-CLAMP-OR8-w-CABLE-HOLDER-31-8-BLACK_W0QQitemZ260549099453QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ca9efbfbd#ht_1581w t_939) a clamp with an integrated cable hanger. I have not tried it but it looks like a great idea.

Don't know the brands, just got a generic clamp and the hanger from my LBS.
Perhaps my clamp is the key factor...looks like it may extend back a bit more than yours maybe?

Looks like it. I originally had a Kalloy SC-201 (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=22679&category=168) clamp on the seatpost. It has the bolt 1-2mm from the seat tube and it didn't work with either of the two hangers I had. Managed to snap the bolt and ended up replacing it with a Forte clamp (http://www.performancebike.com/bikes//Product_10052_10551_1033972_-1___) which has a little bit more space between the bolt and the seat tube. By that time I'd already slotted the seat tube in the back, so I didn't bother to check whether it worked any better than the original clamp.

Yours looks like a pretty nice design. More substantial than most and it appears to position the bolt further from the seat tube, which allows the hanger to fit with ease.

No problem, Jtgyk, just wanted to get my point across.

The Kalloy SC-201 clamp was the culprit in my case too. And I agree, you would think that any clamp would work, but that's not the case, unfortunately.

Dang...I wish I'd paid attention to what brand the clamp was now.
I have another one of these showing up sometime next week to start building on.
Maybe I'll give the clamp with the integrated cable stop above.....

Dang...I wish I'd paid attention to what brand the clamp was now.
I have another one of these showing up sometime next week to start building on.
Maybe I'll give the clamp with the integrated cable stop above.....

The clamp in your photo looks almost exactly like the M Part clamp I just put on my frame (except mine is black). I'm putting V-brakes on mine, but I do have one of those Surly hangers so I'll give it a try. It does look like there's a fair amount of room behind the bolt though.

I bought mine a while ago from Probikekit. Here's the link if anyone's interested:
http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=NP09506

EDIT: I tried my Surly hanger on this clamp, and it works great with plenty of room in both dimensions (i.e. front to back and side-to-side).

Okay, I've run into an issue with the FD mounting on this frame.

I'm using a Deore LX M581 trekking crank with a 48T big ring. When I try to position my LX M570 FD on the seat tube, the lower bottle cage bolt is right where the clamp band needs to be to have the proper spacing on the big ring. One of the user reviews on the Nashbar site makes mention of this problem but the guy was using a tiny large chainring (42T, IIRC) so I didn't think the problem would apply to me.

So I have a couple of other FD's laying aroudn that I plan to try, but I'm also thinking of getting a "top swing"-style FD like this (http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_196393_-1_201681_10000_201686), or possibly an e-clamp type that attaches to the bottom bracket like this (http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_196423_-1_201681_10000_201686). The e-type looks interesting but I suspect it has a fixed height so you can only use it with a 44T max chainring.

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has run into this problem and how they solved it.

The e-type looks interesting but I suspect it has a fixed height so you can only use it with a 44T max chainring.

Correct, e-type won't work with anything other than the canonical 44T chainring.

The manufacturer unfortunately assumes that you're going to use a top swing FD. If you don't mind the absence of a bottle cage on your seat tube, you can still go with the bottom swing FD. (You can even take a pair of needlenose pliers and snap off the rivnut if you wish; if you change your mind later, your LBS can always replace the rivnut.) If it were mine, I'd go with the top swing FD.

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has run into this problem and how they solved it.

I used the same crank you have when I rode down the Pacific coast. My front derailleur is an Ultegra SL triple. I've got the braze-on version of the FD bolted to a Shimano braze-on adapter. The clamp for the FD ended up right next to the bottom water bottle bolt. Derailleur was a tad high, but shifted fine once properly adjusted. I have the mount for my pump (similar to this one (http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10052&productId=1031038&catalogId=10551&categoryId=400168)) between the bottle cage and the frame; it spaces the cage off the frame just enough to avoid any problems caused by the FD clamp.

I used the same crank you have when I rode down the Pacific coast.

Oops! I lied: I've actually got the Shimano Deore M532 trekking crank. It's a 26/36/48 triple, if that matters.

Correct, e-type won't work with anything other than the canonical 44T chainring.

The manufacturer unfortunately assumes that you're going to use a top swing FD. If you don't mind the absence of a bottle cage on your seat tube, you can still go with the bottom swing FD. (You can even take a pair of needlenose pliers and snap off the rivnut if you wish; if you change your mind later, your LBS can always replace the rivnut.) If it were mine, I'd go with the top swing FD.

Okay, thanks for confirming that. I ordered a top swing FD, as I'd like to keep the bottle cage mounts available.

Another possibility that occurs to me, though, would be to use an FD with a 34.9 clamp, and then make a DIY shim with a gap in it to clear the rivnut. You still lose the use of the lower boss, but you don't have to modify the frame. I don't know if it's really a good idea to clamp over a tube that has a hole in it like that, though if you leave the rivnut in it should reinforce it.

Oops! I lied: I've actually got the Shimano Deore M532 trekking crank. It's a 26/36/48 triple, if that matters.

Ahh, I thought it didn't sound quite right when you said you were using an M581 with a road FD. Those cranks have a really wide chainline (50mm). I've never found a road FD that could reach that far to shift to the big ring. I assume the M532 must have a tighter chainline, like 45mm. My rear wheel has a 135mm hub so hopefully the 50mm chainline will be reasonable.

Ahh, I thought it didn't sound quite right when you said you were using an M581 with a road FD. Those cranks have a really wide chainline (50mm). I've never found a road FD that could reach that far to shift to the big ring. I assume the M532 must have a tighter chainline, like 45mm. My rear wheel has a 135mm hub so hopefully the 50mm chainline will be reasonable.

The M532 has a 50mm chainline (http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/mountain/deore/product.-code-FC-M532-L.-type-.html) just like most MTB cranks. If you look at the install instructions (http://bike.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/Deore/FrontDriveSystem/SI_6N1FA_003/SI_6N1FA_003_En_v1_m56577569830648341.pdf) you'll see that there are 2.5mm spacers which sit between the external bottom bracket cups and the frame. These spacers control the exact placement of the chainrings with respect to the frame. While the diagram shows that two 2.5mm spacers should be placed between the drive-side cup and the frame when using a 68mm BB shell, I only installed one. In theory, this changes the chainline from 50mm to 47.5mm. In any event, it allowed my Ultegra SL triple FD, which is designed for a 45mm chainline, to shift properly across all three chainrings. I'm using a Shimano 135mm XTR hub in the rear, too.

YMMV, but it worked for me...

Frame just came in today... pictures tonight after I unbox it...

Tomorrow begins the quest of finding a bombproof specimen of each of the following for as little as possible:


Headset
36 spoke wheels
Cantis or V-brakes?
Groupset (if my roommate decides he wants to keep his Alivio components)
Bar end shifters
Tires


The other stuff I'm just going to throw on whatever until I get the dough together to start making the whole thing shine (B-17, nice racks, awesome fenders)

Mine just came today as well.
I won't have time to build until the end of the month, though.
Going on vacation with the family. At least I've been given permission to bring my bike.

First item up for bids... wheels. I'm having a hell of a time finding 36 spoke wheelsets anywhere. Anybody have any or know where to get 'em for cheaper than having them built at the bike shop?

Depending on your definition of cheap, Harris Cyclery sells some prebuilt 36 spoke touring wheelsets for reasonable prices:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/wheels/622.html

I don't know if these are machine built or hand built (for the price, I'd guess they're machine built).

It looks like they have a set with Alivio hubs and Sun CR18 36 spoke rims for 119.95.

EDIT: They say the wheels are "hand built by our supplier". Looks like the cheaper sets may have straight gauge spokes though.

Ok, next lowest I found was 258 for some Mavic 719 action on eBay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=380213537256&Category=58099&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1

Problem is, I know NOTHING about wheels. What am I looking for here if my goal is "I am going to be abusing the living hell out of this bike, and I want it to come back for more."

To illustrate this concept, I once saw a show about the AK-47, and it had an officer who came back from Vietnam with an AK he pulled off of a dead VC, and he promptly threw it in a storage unit and forgot about it for 30 years. When he found it, the chamber had rusted shut. He kicked it open, took it to the range, and it fired perfectly first time.

So, regarding parts... if the Russians were to build a touring bike, what would it have on it? :)

EDIT: Also, check this out from the ad copy for the wheels you sent me:



Shimano/Sun CR18 36 spoke Hybrid/Touring Wheelset

[...blah blah blah...]

Note: This wheel set is not intended for riders weighing over 215 lbs. It is also not intended for loaded touring/commuting.


FAIL. :roflmao:

I used these on the last build. (http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=63) They've been holding up well under me at 350#.

Brief: Road wheel set 700C x 35
Rim: DH-19 700c, 36 hole, non-eyeletted, black with machined sides for v-brake compatability
Hub: Shimano Deore®, 8/9 speed compatible, 36 hole, silver.

Just make sure they are tensioned correctly.

Not a bad buy at $114.00

Does that include your 350# plus panniers full of stuff?

Although I guess that's a moot point, as I'm 220#, and probably won't be carrying 130# worth of crap with me. :)

I'd be more concerned about the straight gauge spokes used in the cheaper wheelsets, IMHO. Double-butted spokes will build a more resilient wheel. Of all the wheels listed so far in this thread I didn't see anything with DB spokes for less than $250 or so (though to be fair, for that money you also get much nicer hubs and rims).

Unfortunately Sheldon's double butted spoke wheels seem to be sold out, in addition to costing ~$130 more.

Anybody have a price estimate of what my LBS is gonna charge me? If it's going to be $250 there and it'll be $250 anyway, I might as well have them built here in town.

I am thinking really hard about doing this too. All I have are fast road bikes. Would love a touring / commuting rig that's cheap and dependable.

I'd build my own wheels, dyno hub in front.

The rear dropouts are between road and mountain widths. (1) Does that mean I have to bend the stays into place, regardless? and (2) 650B is an alternative as well? Has anyone built up this frame with 26" wheels or 650? How is the geometry / handling with those smaller wheels?

I used these on the last build. (http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=63) They've been holding up well under me at 350#.

Brief: Road wheel set 700C x 35
Rim: DH-19 700c, 36 hole, non-eyeletted, black with machined sides for v-brake compatability
Hub: Shimano Deore®, 8/9 speed compatible, 36 hole, silver.

Just make sure they are tensioned correctly.

Not a bad buy at $114.00

if that's for a pair it's an incredible deal, and probably machine made needing some human finish.

The rear dropouts are between road and mountain widths. (1) Does that mean I have to bend the stays into place, regardless?

No. 2.5mm is a tiny amount of space. If you use a MTB hub, you'll need to move each dropout outward by 1.25mm. Grab the seat stays, sneeze, and you'll probably spread them more than than involuntarily.


and (2) 650B is an alternative as well? Has anyone built up this frame with 26" wheels or 650?

If you want brakes that work, you'll probably have to use 700c wheels. The canti posts are placed for standard 700c rims...

Shimano Bar end shifters, Whatever SIS RD you want, and Tektro RL rakes. You're going with linear pull or cantilever brakes or what?

if that's for a pair it's an incredible deal, and probably machine made needing some human finish.

Bicycle Wheel Warehouse claims that all of their wheels are hand-built. I purchased a pair of cheap ($120?) mountain bike wheels from them and they were better built than my Mavic Crossride wheels which cost twice as much!

Does that include your 350# plus panniers full of stuff?

Although I guess that's a moot point, as I'm 220#, and probably won't be carrying 130# worth of crap with me. :)

Actually, it was my large self +2 panniers full of books...sometimes 2 large, full grocery panniers coming from the store.
But mostly my large self + 1 pannier with clothing and laptop & other commuty stuff.

They did get checked and re-tensioned when I got them.

if that's for a pair it's an incredible deal, and probably machine made needing some human finish.

That's for the pair. I ALWAYS check any new wheel for tension. VERY IMPORTANT when one is my size.

Shimano Bar end shifters, Whatever SIS RD you want, and Tektro RL rakes. You're going with linear pull or cantilever brakes or what?

Cantis (unless finding a seat collar that sticks out far enough proves difficult.)

Looks to me like the Harris CR18/Alivio wheel sets are the best deal out there. You might find them for a little less, but not much. They will have 14 gauge spokes, I'm sure, and you should probably spend some time tweeking the build/stress relieving.

Ok, updates...

1: My roommate got his new road bike yesterday, and we got a stand off of craigslist. This means I can strip his MTB frame. Oh, and his road bike came with a Trek rear rack... BOOM. Free rear rack. I already pulled the Alivio FD and RD, the chain has seen better days and I'll probably replace... and I'm going to need the bike shop to pull the cranks and BB and put them in the Nashbar, since I don't have the tools to do so. Which brings me to...

2: There is a flea market booth here that specializes in bike parts. They just got in a rear wheel... rim is Breeze by Stars Circle. Made of 6061 aluminum and is dark gray. 36 Black spokes, cross 3. Hub is alloy, threaded for 6-7 speed freewheel and is a bolt on. Should I buy it and make a 21 speed bike, or should I buy it and another hub to make a 9 speed wheel, or should I wait and get my wheels somewhere else? This kind of appeals to me because I might just get a whole touring bike built for $300 if this works.