Foo - Men,women & nudity in print and movies

I've had this discussion before and looking to see what you think here. It's about equality in showing male and female nudity in print and in the movies. Many times, someone may ask why they are able to show women full frontal nudity and not men. So, here's my theory .. I think it is because if a woman in just standing, there is basically no genitalia seen since it is basically between the legs (and we all know pubic hair does not count as genitalia, right?), so to actually see anything good, she'd have to be in a more suggestive position (which changes the movie rating and the kind of book it is :p ). But, to show male genitalia, a man need only stand there (unless very tiny) and there it is (again, changing the rating). I think that is where it is generally more accepted to show a female nude over a male because nothing is actually being seen. Any thoughts .. real or imagined?

Men are ugly...its that simple in my eyes. Male beauty will never be able to stand side by side a female...ever. Beyond that....I think you are also correct...woman naked doesn't actually show much...

Seriously (and I know I am going to get some big time sharp reactions), I seriously think that men are just more homophobic and do not like to see pictures of other men. Maybe they are a little intimidated too if they see a fit male body? Because I view the fit naked male and the naked female equally beautiful and enjoyable to see, provided that it's not in a porno situation (Debbie Does Dallas or Chippendales or Playboy/Playgirl).

Why is it so "good" for a female to be in the correct situation to see her genitalia, but to see male genitalia, it's not considered "good"?

Koffee

I would have no problem with nudity in the media as long as it is done tastefully. I have no problems admiring the human body, regardless of the gender.

Seriously (and I know I am going to get some big time sharp reactions), I seriously think that men are just more homophobic and do not like to see pictures of other men. Maybe they are a little intimidated too if they see a fit male body? Because I view the fit naked male and the naked female equally beautiful and enjoyable to see, provided that it's not in a porno situation (Debbie Does Dallas or Chippendales or Playboy/Playgirl).

Why is it so "good" for a female to be in the correct situation to see her genitalia, but to see male genitalia, it's not considered "good"?

Koffee

I would agree with that too (to a point)...but I think homophobia is pushing it. I am not homophobic...I just find male genetalia...ugly. It really is. Most women I know also agree women are by far more beautiful (throughout my life of knowing women)...

Very rarely can I go out on the town with my gf (past or present) and them constantly go "wow look at him" "stunning" "beautiful" etc...but EVERY woman I know will say that throughout the night about women and usually 1 or 2 men. (I am leaving male opinion out of this as it is pretty obvious what men generally look at)...

Homophobia may be pushing it for you, but for other men, I definitely think there is some component of homophobia, whether they admit it or not. Remember that episode of Seinfeld where George is staring at that poster of the man and can't take his eyes off the man and is totally disturbed by it? Classic funny, but sometimes, I get the feeling that it is exactly how men view nudity of men.

Koffee

FWIW, I'm with Joe on this one. The human body is an incredible work of art to be admired in all its forms. (well, not my form, but you get my meaning, right? :rolleyes: )

Fit dudes and chicks are cool, but when you start getting into either the really skinny, sicklike or the really morbidly obese, I gotta draw the line, N7! :eek: ;)

Koffee

OK...I just saw I-Robot, great flick. This is on point...Will Smith's bare ass booty!! I almost lost it!! I leaned over to my husband and said, that is one fine looking black man! Mercy. Then later in the movie when the female lead was in the shower behind a frosted glass door he said, now that's totally not fair. Whatever!!

I agree Koffee. Well, for the most part. I don't want to be a hypocrit here. My wife is 260lbs. (morbidly obese) She is beutiful. Of course, I did not fall in love with her because of her body. :rolleyes: Admirering the fit form is where I find the "art" of the human form. The form I am striving to attain. The form that most Americans dream about, but refuse to work for.

Bob

Men are ugly...its that simple in my eyes. Male beauty will never be able to stand side by side a female...ever. Beyond that....I think you are also correct...woman naked doesn't actually show much...

"Come on Marge, the human wang is a beautiful thing.."

Homophobia may be pushing it for you, but for other men, I definitely think there is some component of homophobia, whether they admit it or not. Remember that episode of Seinfeld where George is staring at that poster of the man and can't take his eyes off the man and is totally disturbed by it? Classic funny, but sometimes, I get the feeling that it is exactly how men view nudity of men.

Koffee

I'm not sure how appropriate it is that some people "force" the idea that others should be comfortable looking at the other gender. Is it really such a bad thing that I don't like looking at naked guys? I'm fine around homosexuals, in fact I feel sometimes the macho masculinity could afford to be toned down slightly but I just plain don't like looking at naked guys, period. There are also some morbidly obese fat women I don't like looking at too. There's 2 gay guys at work and I have no problem with them. Why is it that people have to go out of their way to justify a reaction just to prove they're not homophobic? Do I have to go out of my way and hassle myself to prove that I'm not a terrorist just because I used the words "box cutter" and "airplane" in the same sentence and visited a site with an online version of the "Koran"?
I'm sure some people object to looking at pictures of gun shot victims that have hollow points go in one end and a chunk the size of a cantelope ripped out the other too. Or autopsy pictures, the exposed human chest cavity is a beautiful thing.

Men are ugly...its that simple in my eyes. Male beauty will never be able to stand side by side a female...ever. Beyond that....I think you are also correct...woman naked doesn't actually show much...

Well, at least one has stayed on topic. :p

I would agree with that too (to a point)...but I think homophobia is pushing it. I am not homophobic...I just find male genetalia...ugly. It really is. Most women I know also agree women are by far more beautiful (throughout my life of knowing women)...
..


Beauty is not purely objective; it is also significantly socially conditioned. What people are willing to say is also socially conditioned.

Women just don't talk much about finding men to be hot (at least not in front of men); It is refreshing in the annonymous (or nearly annonymous) cyber space to see women expressing their sexual drives not too different from men. I hope that this freedom spreads to the real world.

i think one aspect is a question of power. nekkid people are vulnerable. and vulnerabiliy is scary, culturally, to many men

Nekkid is nekkid. BRING IT ON!

:D

Beauty is not purely objective; it is also significantly socially conditioned. What people are willing to say is also socially conditioned.

Women just don't talk much about finding men to be hot (at least not in front of men); It is refreshing in the annonymous (or nearly annonymous) cyber space to see women expressing their sexual drives not too different from men. I hope that this freedom spreads to the real world.

Believe me, the girls I know are every bit as horny as men are. They just express it less in public and therefore don't stand out as much.

Believe me, the girls I know are every bit as horny as men are. They just express it less in public and therefore don't stand out as much.

Horny is horny. BRING IT ON, TOO!


;)

As A.Troll says "Nekid is Nekid" It does not bother me, be it male or female. I will take genitalia any day over "THE BLUR". Some prude has their finger on the appropriate button. (Or they have seen me sans clothing, I look like a denuded Rhesus monkey)

pfft. i think we should have more nekkid people. maybe people will enjoy wathcing nekkidness more and violence less.

Beauty is not purely objective; it is also significantly socially conditioned. What people are willing to say is also socially conditioned.

Women just don't talk much about finding men to be hot (at least not in front of men); It is refreshing in the annonymous (or nearly annonymous) cyber space to see women expressing their sexual drives not too different from men. I hope that this freedom spreads to the real world.

The women I hang out with definately have no issues expressing their desires and needs, I like it that way, demure just isn't in my (or my gf's) vocabulary :D. I just don't see this in whistler or my old town. But both are young towns with very alpha female females (wow that sounds wrong)...

OK...I just saw I-Robot, great flick. This is on point...Will Smith's bare ass booty!! I almost lost it!! I leaned over to my husband and said, that is one fine looking black man! Mercy. Then later in the movie when the female lead was in the shower behind a frosted glass door he said, now that's totally not fair. Whatever!!

it isn't fair. we need nice butt too!

Beauty is not purely objective; it is also significantly socially conditioned. What people are willing to say is also socially conditioned.

Women just don't talk much about finding men to be hot (at least not in front of men); It is refreshing in the annonymous (or nearly annonymous) cyber space to see women expressing their sexual drives not too different from men. I hope that this freedom spreads to the real world.

I am with erraticrider here.

Social conditioning is the operative word here.

People are used to seeing half nekkid and nekkid (as A. Troll so succinctly puts it) women and are not used to seeing men in the same state, that is totally unclothed. The nudity we do see, male or female is so over-produced, air-brushed bushwa, as no true mortals look this way--wait, I guess a few mortals
look this way, but it is for about 30 seconds between the ages of about 16 and 23.

Didn't western men of the Victorian era find the glimpse of a bare ankle a ScHWING!? Chinese men found a bound foot on a woman to hot. And it seems just about every religion is into morality by indicating how people should dress ('specially women. . .hmmmph!) and just about every culture does this too; Dress this way or you are not being modest--and religion can be a pretty big factor in social conditioning. It all boils down to this: if you keep something concealed, people will find a way to make it erotic. Women are concealed, men are not, so men's "stuff" is covered up. Now I dont know if keeping penises covered makes them more erotic to me, but to each his own said the lady that kissed the cow.

If people, all people ran, around nekkid we would not be having this discussion. You get used to what you are around all the time, be it nekkidism, large crowds or domestic animals. If everybody went nekkid, then would probably find various ways to make the covering of bodies purely erotic.

People in the west are conditoned to seeing nekkid women and are not used to seeing nekkid men, that's all there is to it.

So true, good point! Violence rather than nudity should be frowned upon. We'd all be healther for it!
.


pfft. i think we should have more nekkid people. maybe people will enjoy wathcing nekkidness more and violence less.

So true, good point! Violence rather than nudity should be frowned upon. We'd all be healther for it!
.


Cool link! All should visit!

Koffee,

I can't and I can agree with you. Half the boys in my class say they're scarred for life int he change room when they don't change with their towel on. Then this kills us. Now we're too embarassed to simply change w/out towels. However, before this, I didn't feel anything wrong in front of changing in front of the same gender. It's either puberty or my classmates, that are affecting everyone in my class.

For me, either male or female simply nude and not posing gets my parents attention and boy do I get yelled it. Well, I guess they're right, but these picture's purposes are not to exploit but are just art. The human body is "as is" and looking at a picture of a beautiful female, in my opinion is not wrong, simply because it's like that. Porn is just wrong in my opinion.

I mean I have had crushes on girls but when I see porn I sort of feel disgusted and guilty.

Human bodies=Kool
Human bodies posing= Un-kool. Hands down.

Koffee,

I can't and I can agree with you. Half the boys in my class say they're scarred for life int he change room when they don't change with their towel on. Then this kills us. Now we're too embarassed to simply change w/out towels. However, before this, I didn't feel anything wrong in front of changing in front of the same gender. It's either puberty or my classmates, that are affecting everyone in my class.

For me, either male or female simply nude and not posing gets my parents attention and boy do I get yelled it. Well, I guess they're right, but these picture's purposes are not to exploit but are just art. The human body is "as is" and looking at a picture of a beautiful female, in my opinion is not wrong, simply because it's like that. Porn is just wrong in my opinion.

I mean I have had crushes on girls but when I see porn I sort of feel disgusted and guilty.

Human bodies=Kool
Human bodies posing= Un-kool. Hands down.

But we are talking about naked women and men. You didn't give the opinion about looking at a picture of a beautiful naked male.

Koffee

i think one aspect is a question of power. nekkid people are vulnerable. and vulnerabiliy is scary, culturally, to many men
Yeah - 3 years of beer-induced, rugby supported nudity with anything. I could care less either way. I care more both ways. Wait, this thread is about pizza, right?

The question that no one has really answered is, do they show fully nude women (in movies and print because genitals are not seen (except in special movies and mags) where as on the men, they (genitals) are exposed due to the nature of thier position on the body?

I think there is more women nakid in movies in print because thats what men want to see. This statement goes very deep do the math...


hmmmmmm pizzaaaa ulghhhhhhhh!

Whoops,

For naked men, I've realised it's just, solid. Maybe it's from looking at too many statues, but seriously, I find the male body a tad bit more outward, ugly and solid than the woman, who have the neat look.

Hmmm...I do love men. I love looking at men. I confess to prefer looking at a man from the backside, rather than front, which leaves nothing to the imagination. A much more aesthetic view, in my opinion. I have to be careful not to crash when I see those sleek, long limbs in bright lycra and especially bibs.

..I tell my teenagers, "...I'm just looking at the bike." Liar!! :D

I can "appreciate" the work a man may put into his body and it may be an attractive body but ... yes, yes .. I am strictly a hetero man :p . I know it's not cool nowadays but that's where I lean and find the female form to be far more attractive ... ;) .

So anyway, are genital diplays what changes things from R ratings to X, and from art to porn? Only a couple posts really had opinions but I want to see if I am really off base.

Australia has SBS, a free-to-air TV station that originally was established to provide ethnic communities with an outlet for news, views, and art (cinema).

It regularly schedules movies that leave not much to the imagination. They are, of course, made in Europe, which compared with far-western countries, has a somewhat different take on this male-female thing, from communal public toilets to nudity on television and in the cinemas. I'd call it enlightenment.

In the past month there have been two movies on SBS with full-frontal scenes of guys. And plenty of playacting sex scenes. So what. But I bet it won't be long before the moral majority are up in arms (again) about the pornography that SBS displays and how its government funding should be cut.

For what it's worth, the world has been privvy in the past 10 days to a display of the human form at its most graceful, most powerful, most humble, most exhilarating and most grotesque. The Olympics, of course. Gender boundaries are blurred in this sort of sporting contest because a finely tuned human body is a joy to behold -- male, female or in between.

Also for what it's worth, think Kathy Bates in About Schmidt.

I can "appreciate" the work a man may put into his body and it may be an attractive body but ... yes, yes .. I am strictly a hetero man :p . I know it's not cool nowadays but that's where I lean and find the female form to be far more attractive ... ;) .

So anyway, are genital diplays what changes things from R ratings to X, and from art to porn? Only a couple posts really had opinions but I want to see if I am really off base.

No. I think it is the way it is portrayed. I know of allowed art in canada that shows genitals. (man or woman) I don't think they base is on something so black and white as "show not show"...

No. I think it is the way it is portrayed. I know of allowed art in canada that shows genitals. (man or woman) I don't think they base is on something so black and white as "show not show"...

You do have a point there. The pose or portayl of the subject has a large part to do with the ratings (I think).

I think this is another thread that I have to add my opinion on...I see some people on this post look at the subject from different angles and that's fair enough. No problem there.

However, I think the problem with society is that we automatically relate nudity to some form of sexually suggestive topic, while I think the truth is very far from that.

I read a post early in this thread that said that most heterosexual male are subconciously homophobic and I have to agree with it to some degree, though it is not my wish. The advertising industry understands this failure in the male population and plays it like a harp from hell, and it's is exactly this reason that most ads feature female, while logically speaking most of those ads would suffice with a male replacement.

Sadly to say, there may not be much hope for any of us. It is not until human can separate the two - nudity and sexual intercourse, only then would people, and in particular, straight man, be able to look at other nude subjects, without either sexual arousal or disgust. That is certainly not the case in the locker room at the local "all male" gym.

Cheers,

Sadly to say, there may not be much hope for any of us. It is not until human can separate the two - nudity and sexual intercourse, only then would people, and in particular, straight man, be able to look at other nude subjects, without either sexual arousal or disgust. That is certainly not the case in the locker room at the local "all male" gym.


I really don't think it's possible, or even desirable, to remove sexual arousal from nudity. That's part of the fun of it. The sign of an enlightened society, however is how we respond to this arousal. If we lack the self control to not act inappropriately in response to this arousal, then perhaps nudity should be banned. However, I would hope that we can be more grown up than that, and I think the vast majority of people are, even here in prudish Australia. I would hope that we could accept nudity in all it's froms as pleasing, fun and even arousing, but that we could restrain our ejaculative urges to times and places that are appropriate and with people that are willing.

"Clothes definitely make the man; naked people have no influence on society."

- Mark Twain

i sitll don't understand why, when we are so obsessed with sex, we don't have it in more movies and such.

You're going to the wrong movie store if you want to see that kind of thing, Merton.

nets cheaper! :D