Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Debating N + 1

I'm still mulling over the idea of N +1. How many bikes does a guy need? And more to the point, how many do I need? I have two bikes, one of which has sat in the basement since November 2007. I can only ride one at a time.

I bringing this up because I have the choice of changing the gearing on Roark, dropping the low gear to a more touring suitable 26. Or for ten times as much expense I could get a new touring bike. There's nothing wrong with Roark, aside from the fact I need to use a trailer when I tour with him - his carbon fork won't accept front racks, and full panniers front and back would through off his balance.

Oh, what to do? I never had this problem before I came here. :-)

How many bikes does a guy need?

You answered your own question.


...N +1...

I definitely only need three bikes (I currently have 2).

I was in a dilemma similar, but not quite the same. I have a comfort bike. I was going to modify said bike to make it more road worthy (read faster). However, then I couldn't ride comfortably with my little girls. SO, I dropped some coin on a full on road bike. Problem solved.
That is until the next conundrum happens. Hmmmm I think N + 1 is the perfect way to describe it.

You need a bike specifically designed for each type of riding you do...

If you do long road rides you need a road or touring bike (or a good skinnier tire hybrid)
If you ride to the liquor store and supermarket you need a city bike or hybrid.
If you ride dirt roads or not-too-rough trails you need a hybrid or touring bike with medium width tires
If you ride roug trails you need some type of off road bike.
If you ride to work you need a bike that is efficient and can mount fenders and a rack (touring or hybrid or CX)
If you tour you need a bike with low gears that can carry luggage (touring or rigid MTB or hybrid or CX or road sport)

I have three working bikes - a hardtail mtb, an upright city bike with fenders and a rack, and a drop bar road bike with room for fenders or 700 X 28 C tires.
I was considering purchasing a 29er mtb to use as my city bike, but I decided this would be redundant, as I have a good city bike, I infrequently ride my mtb as it is, and having to change tires to go on a trail ride would deter me that much more.

What is the bike that's been in the basement since Nov 2007?

What is the bike that's been in the basement since Nov 2007?

Excelsior, a 2006 Trek Navigator 3.0 comfort bike. When I got Roark in Agust 2007, Excelsior was sent to the basement.

that thou asketh such a question indicates that thou art not a true believer.

Repeat after me, sinner: He who dies with the most toys, wins.

:D

If I ever blow off an opportunity to ride because I feel I don't have the right kind of bike for it- it's time to buy another bike.

Treat yourself nice with that tax return. Get yourself a Tout Terrain Panamerica (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tout-terrain.asp) - then you'll have no excuse not to ride the Panamerican Highway!
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/frames/tout-panamericana-1.jpg
But seriously - since you're serious about touring, why not have a bike for loaded tours and Roark for more leisurely rides? A used Trek 520 could be had for under $700 (speaking from experience, that's what I paid for one but when I rode those strange upright bikes).

I think of a bicycle like a hammer. I have a hammer for each specific application. I have a claw hammer, framing hammer, tack hammer, cross pean, ball pean, rubber mallet, mallet, mini sledge and a full sized sledge. Each hammer has it's own specific job. could one hammer do the job of another? sure, but it's not designed to do so. Could you ride a road bike down single track? Sure, but a mountain bike would be a much better tool for the job.

I'd say to either sell or give Excelsior away to a new rider, then use the funds to put towards your new ride. Keep Roark around for your fun sporty ride and buy the touring bike that you want. If you don't want to drink the Surley Kool-Aid (sounds like a tasty flavor) don't. It's whatever you want that best fits your needs. Head back to your bike shop that sold you Roark and check out a Portland or a 520.

I'm still mulling over the idea of N +1. How many bikes does a guy need? And more to the point, how many do I need? I have two bikes, one of which has sat in the basement since November 2007. I can only ride one at a time.

I bringing this up because I have the choice of changing the gearing on Roark, dropping the low gear to a more touring suitable 26. Or for ten times as much expense I could get a new touring bike. There's nothing wrong with Roark, aside from the fact I need to use a trailer when I tour with him - his carbon fork won't accept front racks, and full panniers front and back would through off his balance.

Oh, what to do? I never had this problem before I came here. :-)

I still have my first road bike, a 1972 Schwinn Paramount;

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/IMG_1414.jpg

I rediscovered cycling and commuted on a Giant Cypress for a season, this bike is now my utility bike. It transported a new car battery today;

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/bikepics004.jpg

I added a Soma Double Cross Cyclocross bike in 2008. This bike is my fitness and long distance bike. I rode it 5000 miles last year. This bike features a road triple crankset and a 10 speed 12-27 cassette. It's my Hilly-hundred bike.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/Somka2x2009.jpg

This winter I added two bikes. I wanted a commuter & rain bike. I picked a 1987 trek 400d Elance and installed a modern 2x10 Ultegra drivetrain with a 46 & 38t cyclocross double crankset. The bike aslo has modern 700c Mavic Open Pro rims on Shimano hubs;

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/2010bikepictures015.jpg

Last but not least is my made-by-Lynskey "Planet X" titanium road bike. This has a 50 & 39t standard double and a 10 speed 12-27 cassette;

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/2010bikepictures009.jpg

I should sell the Giant and get a LHT. I'm a drop-bar road-bike guy :D .

I was wondering how much potential Excelsior had if it were decked out as a touring bike?

There's a debate? You should know by now, the correct answer to the N+1 debate is YES! I NEED ANOTHER BIKE!

I was wondering how much potential Excelsior had if it were decked out as a touring bike?

I was wondering the same thing...narrower tires, trekking bar or drop bar with bar end shifters, adjust gearing as needed...

If not, I figure, whatever I do to keep myself moving is worth it. If you think you'll make use of it, get it. In the long run, it's much less expensive than the medical bills! :thumb:

I can't believe that I'm the conservative/cheap one on this one! I'm all for getting a new bike, if you WANT ONE. Wanting a bike is a good enough reason for me, and I agree that you don't want to try touring with that carbon fork. I just don't like the idea of that bike in the basement. Even if it is on a trainer...it seems like such a waste.


I would consider getting some really decent parts of Ebay/Craigslist to turn that hybrid into a dedicated touring and/or indoor training rig. Get some used handlebars, shifters, and a few other goodies, and you are in business. Those frames tend to be stout and long enough to tour.

Like I said, it is another story if you really WANT another bike. If so, and you can afford it, then go for it. If you feel too guilty about it, donate the old hybrid to a local charity or something.

The N+1 rule is one of the incontrovertible laws of the Universe; if you break it, life as we know it will end.

That being said, in all seriousness, I would probably sell or donate the one thats in the basement, and get a touring bike. If the one the basement was that great, you would find an excuse to ride it, but it doesn't and Roark does what you need him to do. Let him do what he is good at, and get a second bike that is better for touring.

D

I should sell the Giant and get a LHT. I'm a drop-bar road-bike guy :D .

Yes you should. There needs to be more LHT riders out there.

D

p.s. I love mine, Chiron and I have covered over 2000 miles since he came home 13 months ago.

I was wondering the same thing...narrower tires, trekking bar or drop bar with bar end shifters, adjust gearing as needed...

If not, I figure, whatever I do to keep myself moving is worth it. If you think you'll make use of it, get it. In the long run, it's much less expensive than the medical bills! :thumb:

+1

the problem is that you ask how many bikes you need. None.
How many bikes need me? many, who could care and baby these bikes better.

I like the concept of "N+1". But, of course funds must be available. The one in the basement - you should clean it up and ride IT on the second week of June - might bring back old memories (good or bad) that *might* solidify the decison for you!

I fully hope and desire to outgrow my Giant Suede DX, and grow into a LHT - time will tell for me. But, I cal see me getting the LHT for long mile rides, with the right gear for it, and then realizing, that it sure would be nice to have a drop-bar, lighter bike, smaller tires, for day rides - see how the math works?

Lastly, if it helps your health, the cost is justified - if the funds are available! Remember, if you do not want to ride because of this or that - then it's time to either change the current bike or get a new one! if you are thinking of this summer, and that bike #2 just isn't going to do what you want it to do - 3 choices...buy another bike, don't do the tour, or Modify Bike #2. I personally hate choice three - if you didn't like em the way he is, why'd you even get him?

I think of a bicycle like a hammer. I have a hammer for each specific application. I have a claw hammer, framing hammer, tack hammer, cross pean, ball pean, rubber mallet, mallet, mini sledge and a full sized sledge. Each hammer has it's own specific job. could one hammer do the job of another? sure, but it's not designed to do so. Could you ride a road bike down single track? Sure, but a mountain bike would be a much better tool for the job.

I strongly agree with your analogy. I bet you have a well stocked workshop.

Asking how many bikes someone really needs on Bikeforums is asking for trouble. Fix up the one you are not riding and get out there and enjoy.

I was in a delimma back when I bought my LHT. Although I enjoyed my hardtail I knew I wanted something that would be more comfortable for distance. After purchasing my LHT the hardtail was then relegated to the basemant. Well, after a few months the LHT went into the shop and into the basement I went. After riding again I forgot how much I did enjoy it. Well, after getting out the LHT from the shop both bikes now sit next to each other. Both eager for a chance to get out and play.

ok, what does it mean and why is it called ......"N+1"....I'm lost on that one! 'Splain please!:D

It's a math thing Beanz. n being the current number of bikes you own and +1 being the next one you're going to buy. Everyone needs +1 bike in their garage. :)

It's a math thing Beanz. n being the current number of bikes you own and +1 being the next one you're going to buy. Everyone needs +1 bike in their garage. :)

Ah OK! Thanks! I'm a little slow on those "n+1", "the 41" thingies!:D

I don't know how many bikes a person really needs but I can tell you that it would seem 7 isn't quite enough:p

In all fairness, there are two unbuilt frame sets included in that count, but the parts are all on hand to build them, and one bike seems to be a take a part/rebuild workstand queen because everytime I think I'm done another idea or part comes along.

The real question lately seems to be how many guitars does one person need. Five didn't seem to be enough, so now it's six as soon as I figure out how to smuggle the noob into the mix unnoticed. :shrugs:

You can also try adding a steel fork w/mounts to Roark and see how you like it. If you don't like it, pull it off and put the old one back on.

I strongly agree with your analogy. I bet you have a well stocked workshop.

Thank you, I do have a well stocked work shop which I am still adding to. They way I see it, if you run off to the store to buy a tool it's too late. Never buy a tool because you need it, buy a tool because you can foresee yourself using it. As you may suspect, Mrs. Bautieri hates that theroy.

Thank you, I do have a well stocked work shop which I am still adding to. They way I see it, if you run off to the store to buy a tool it's too late. Never buy a tool because you need it, buy a tool because you can foresee yourself using it. As you may suspect, Mrs. Bautieri hates that theroy.

And - never buy cheap tools, they are never worth the cost savings!

the problem is that you ask how many bikes you need. None.

Everyone needs one bike. A bicycle can provide independence and freedom and self-sufficiency when you have little or nothing else. The only thing more useful than a working bicycle is a comfortable pair of shoes.

Oh, and for the record, I have nothing against buying a new bike if that is what you desire. I just like to work on the old ones.

Neal - sell your old bike if you must, but buy the new one. Buy it now, don't delay. You're only denying yourself the tranquility and peace that washes over your soul when you get a new bike. I can't stand to see you in such obvious turmoil. No need to thank me sir.

I'm in the same boat Neal, I would like to do some touring but neither of my current bikes is particularly suitable. I have narrowed the list down to two, a Jamis Aurora Elite or a Surly LHT.
If I decide to buy a complete bike it will be the Jamis. However I have also decided that I need to build/rebuild my own wheels and am currently building my own truing stand.

When I decide my wheel building skills are up to the task I would like to get a LHT frame and fork set and build it up from scratch with a dynamo hub on the front for the lighting system.
Patience is the key, if I can hold out i will have the hand built LHT, if I can't it will be the Jamis.

Neal - sell your old bike if you must, but buy the new one. Buy it now, don't delay. You're only denying yourself the tranquility and peace that washes over your soul when you get a new bike. I can't stand to see you in such obvious turmoil. No need to thank me sir.

The issues I am weighing:

1. It's a big expense. It's not just a bike. It's a Brooks saddle, panniers, extenders on the pedals, etc.
2. I'll have to get used to drop bars and 'brifters'.
3. I'll have about six weeks of pain while I get 'dialed in' for my fit. (That was the break in period last time.)
4. I might spend all that time, effort, and money and not be any better off.

What I'd like from a new bike:

1. The ability to carry panniers front and back, and the geometry to do it. The Trek 7.5 handles poorly when loaded front and back.
2. Greater speed.

Bikes I am looking at:

Novarra Radonee
Novarra Safari
Surly Long Haul Trucker

The Trek 520 and Portland are too pricey, and the Windsor Tourist too much of a crapshoot for fit. Ditto Craigslist - too many nutters and crooks on there.

I was wondering how much potential Excelsior had if it were decked out as a touring bike?

It did one tour, an overnight to Cherry Hill, NJ, in 2007. It barely passed. It's too heavy and the position is too upright.

I'm still mulling over the idea of N +1. How many bikes does a guy need? And more to the point, how many do I need? I have two bikes, one of which has sat in the basement since November 2007. I can only ride one at a time.

I bringing this up because I have the choice of changing the gearing on Roark, dropping the low gear to a more touring suitable 26. Or for ten times as much expense I could get a new touring bike. There's nothing wrong with Roark, aside from the fact I need to use a trailer when I tour with him - his carbon fork won't accept front racks, and full panniers front and back would through off his balance.

Oh, what to do? I never had this problem before I came here. :-)

In the meantime I've decided to go ahead with the change Roark's gearing. I'll be getting an additional 8 gear inches, which will help tremendously with the local hills.

Shoutout for the Randonee here. Although... my new Bike Friday is making me lust after the New World Tour bikes...

I don't know how many bikes a person really needs but I can tell you that it would seem 7 isn't quite enough:p

In all fairness, there are two unbuilt frame sets included in that count, but the parts are all on hand to build them, and one bike seems to be a take a part/rebuild workstand queen because everytime I think I'm done another idea or part comes along.

The real question lately seems to be how many guitars does one person need. Five didn't seem to be enough, so now it's six as soon as I figure out how to smuggle the noob into the mix unnoticed. :shrugs:

Several years ago, my wife decreed that I have to get rid of a guitar (or other stringed instrument) before bringing another into the house.
She hasn't made that demand with the bicycles......yet, but the time is growing near.

We have her nice new Globe Vienna 1 and her Trek 800 (which will be sold )

and

My Nashbar Tourer (The Flying Avocado),
My Trek 700,
The Hardrock (probably being sold),
The Trek 720 Frankenproject (nearly completed, rides pretty good, but will either be sold or harvested for parts for another project),
The Trek 1220 (Jimi....on the fence as to keeping or selling),
The Schwinn LeTour (too tall and will be donating parts before selling the frame),
The New-Couldn't-Pass-up-the-Deal Nashbar touring frame (size 56 see donor parts above...for $50, I couldn't resist its shiny green goodness),
a Volkscycle Mark V (currently in parts awaiting a rebuild),
and a Giant Mnt bike frame that just needs to go somewhere else.

So 6 complete bikes + projects.

The two bikes I actually ride the most are the Avocado and the Trek 700, as they both have racks (being able to carry stuff is important to me) and I like to vary my riding position from time to time.
So really, I only need 2 + 1 for fun riding. (and maybe the hardrock for not quite completed rail to trail routes....hmmm)

...The real question lately seems to be how many guitars does one person need. Five didn't seem to be enough, so now it's six as soon as I figure out how to smuggle the noob into the mix unnoticed. :shrugs:

Oh my...five isn't nearly enough...lessee:

Strat;
Tele;
Les Paul;
Washburn R 301;
Epiphone Bluesmaster;
Cheap Asian Regal metal bodied biscuit bridge resonator;
Cheap Asian Rogue wood bodied biscuit bridge reso;
60's vintage Framus;
home built StewMac 000;
home built StewMac dreadnaught;

Well my +1 just got picked up today in the form of the following

http://media.rei.com/media/ss/5f97866b-8929-499b-92b0-4452857a02b1.jpg

Historian,

I went back and read your original post, and I think the solution to your problem lies there.

You comment that with your current setup you can't tour without a trailer, you can't mount front racks, and you can't load up your panniers. Changing your gearing on your current bike won't change any of those things.

So if you want to tour without a trailer, mount a front rack, and load up your panniers for a long ride -- then go out and get a new bike. If those things really aren't that important to you, keep your current ride and change the gearing.

If finances are an issue, then clearly the latter course gets more weighting.

Historian,

I went back and read your original post, and I think the solution to your problem lies there.

You comment that with your current setup you can't tour without a trailer, you can't mount front racks, and you can't load up your panniers. Changing your gearing on your current bike won't change any of those things.

So if you want to tour without a trailer, mount a front rack, and load up your panniers for a long ride -- then go out and get a new bike. If those things really aren't that important to you, keep your current ride and change the gearing.

If finances are an issue, then clearly the latter course gets more weighting.

I might be overstating the "trailer" problem. But the advantages of a trailer does carry some disadvantages. For instance, on tour last summer I got a ride from south of DC to near Baltimore to avoid riding through DC during a marathon that was taking place in town. There was a Metro stop two miles from where I was staying. If I didn't have the trailer I would have taken Metro to Greenbelt and then ridden to Annapolis. Ditto if I tour in the greater Philadelphia area and want to include a SEPTA train.

One thing to consider...if you believe you will 'break down' and end up buying a new touring bike sometime this year, you might want to get it earlier in the year rather than later if only so you can enjoy it all spring, summer and fall!

You need a bike specifically designed for each type of riding you do...

If you do long road rides you need a road or touring bike (or a good skinnier tire hybrid)
If you ride to the liquor store and supermarket you need a city bike or hybrid.
If you ride dirt roads or not-too-rough trails you need a hybrid or touring bike with medium width tires
If you ride roug trails you need some type of off road bike.
If you ride to work you need a bike that is efficient and can mount fenders and a rack (touring or hybrid or CX)
If you tour you need a bike with low gears that can carry luggage (touring or rigid MTB or hybrid or CX or road sport)

I have three working bikes - a hardtail mtb, an upright city bike with fenders and a rack, and a drop bar road bike with room for fenders or 700 X 28 C tires.
I was considering purchasing a 29er mtb to use as my city bike, but I decided this would be redundant, as I have a good city bike, I infrequently ride my mtb as it is, and having to change tires to go on a trail ride would deter me that much more.

Dog-trotting-bike: You forgot mixte bike with dog-trotting attachment. For lanky dogs who like to run with bike.

Bikejor: There's also a bikejoring bike, that's going to get beat up, for bikejoring -- what else?
(http://www.rundawgrun.com/bikejor.html)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq0pXRwn-3o)

You need as many bikes as you want and got room for.

Specialized Secteur Elite - Road Bike (new!)
Specialized Globe Vienna Deluxe - Comfort Bike
Raleigh Super Record - Classic Bike
Raleigh M40 - Mountain Bike - Commuter
Huffy Bay Point - 3 speed trash bike converted to fixie trash bike
Concord Cruiser - Sometimes I got to get back to basics
Unknown Frankenbike - 3 speed womens frame with coaster brake. For the wife.
1940's Schwinn womens bike - customized for my wife.
Still looking. Filled up lawn shed, cleared space in basement...

Dog-trotting-bike: You forgot mixte bike with dog-trotting attachment. For lanky dogs who like to run with bike.

Bikejor: There's also a bikejoring bike, that's going to get beat up, for bikejoring -- what else?
(http://www.rundawgrun.com/bikejor.html)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq0pXRwn-3o)

Forgot dog walking bike! I just use my hybrid with no special attachments.
I regularily ride with my Newfoundland/Elkhound X, Millie... I put a harness on her and hang on to the leash with my right hand... I have plenty of control using just the front brake, and I trained her to heel on the right side so I could ride on the road with her. She can tow me at around ~40km/h on flat ground (without any pedal input from me :)) and keep pace with me just about as fast as I can pedal if I don't need her to pull.

I'm sure that they are plenty o' fat guys (myself included) who would love to buy a well cared for clyde bike for less than retail. So you get some cash for a new bike and you also get a clyde on a bike. double win.

Neil,

A sane person only needs 1 bicycle.

Brian

Oh, by the way I have 7,

1964 Moulton Speed 4
1973 Fuji Dynamic 12 (now single speed)
1988 Diamond Back Ascent Mtn Bike
2002 Rans Vrex (recumbent)
2006 Dahon Speed TR (folder)
2008 Surly LHT (Touring)
2009 Salsa Fargo (Off road touring)

2010 ????????

N + 1 is like one of the Laws of the Earth! It applies to almost everything. As a fisherman, we always say you can never have enough or too much fishing gear and you can never catch enough or too many fish. This is the same for cycling. I just did 1 + 1 and now I am looking for 2 + 1 :beer:!