"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - "If it's your first race, attack attack attack"

On the other hand I guess that 556 is either about to become, or already is, a Cat 2. And he definitely deserves it. Smooth, fluid, smart, never over-reacting, and a wheel that I felt totally comfortable around. Strong too, because to get 4th in that race (essentially 2nd in the sprint, since 2 guys gapped the field on the hill), into that monster headwind, that takes a lot of power.

Danny got his upgrade.

A point that I think is missed by the "don't attack" crowd (and CDR, you KNOW I have nothing but the utmost respect for your opinions) is that in any race, very few attacks are successful. At the cat 5 level it is next to nil. And in between attacks, one has to recover, and where does recovery take place? In the pack.

So while I agree that pack skills are tremendously important for the racer of any level, I think that some of us are missing out on the idea that unless you a) attack and get away for the rest of the race, b) Attack, blow and shoot straight through the pack and out the back, or c) attack and promptly crash/go off course, even the most tenacious attackers (Myself and Ex included) spend a majority of our time in the pack until we get away. Since no cat 5 is likely to get away, I would guess the majority of an "attacking" race will still be spent in the pack recovering. As such, I still recommend attacking over and over again. Attack, get caught, catch a wheel, recover, try again.

Got any of you convinced yet?

I still think if you don't approach this the right way you may be fostering some bad habits. If im coaching a young rider I would ask why he attacked? Get them to start to think about and understand the chess game a little bit. Im not saying don't be agressive, but do it for a reason. learn to pick time and place.

I still think if you don't approach this the right way you may be fostering some bad habits. If im coaching a young rider I would ask why he attacked? Get them to start to think about and understand the chess game a little bit. Im not saying don't be agressive, but do it for a reason. learn to pick time and place.

I agree 100%, but you wont be able to give an explanation of what you did, why, why it was wrong, what it benefitted, etc...
Unless you have attacked before, and i believe what DrWJ is trying to say is get the basics of attacking down - strategy comes later (in chess, you learn how the peices move before you can strategize with them).
You might lost the race, but hey, you learnt 10x more than you did prior.

When I started I was lucky if I finished with the group. Attack attack attack is all well and good if you have the capacity for it, but I suspect many first time racers don't. Even now, some races I'm happy if I can even get near the front, let alone attack.

+1

If you can do it go for it but racing may be a little harder than you think :)

If it's your first race, try not to die or kill anyone else. Everything else is gravy.

I still think if you don't approach this the right way you may be fostering some bad habits. If im coaching a young rider I would ask why he attacked? Get them to start to think about and understand the chess game a little bit. Im not saying don't be agressive, but do it for a reason. learn to pick time and place.

Yep. Wasting energy is just dumb.

Learning how to ride near (but not in) the front of the field, saves energy and also puts you in the right position to cover and initiate moves. This is the most important thing for a noob to learn... staying near the front. Commonly a good time to attack is right after the field chases and catches someone else who attacked. If you want to get away and stay away you will likely need help... so if you initiate or follow an attack, evaluate who came with you asap and whether you have a chance of staying off. If the chance is nil, then quit working immediately and wait for another opportunity.

I agree 100%, but you wont be able to give an explanation of what you did, why, why it was wrong, what it benefitted, etc...
Unless you have attacked before, and i believe what DrWJ is trying to say is get the basics of attacking down - strategy comes later (in chess, you learn how the peices move before you can strategize with them).
You might lost the race, but hey, you learnt 10x more than you did prior.

But if you aren't thinking about when and why you aren't learning. There are some things that just never work Eg, attacking a rested field, or attacking down wind. So why go there? When matters much more than how, and is harder to get a feel for. What are the "basics of attacking"? Anybody can just randomly jump off the front, that's pretty easy. The Basics are all about when, and just as importantly when not too.

I guess I've seen too many otherwise strong riders spend a career letting others work them over and spit them out. Simply because they consistently did the wrong things at the wrong time.

People say this all the time and I swear I don't half believe it.

You have to have confidence in your training for this to be true. If you can honestly say you are well trained and ready for the race then chances are if you are hurting then every one else is too, some far worse hopefully.

One of the better threads here in a while. Probably has been covered in many other threads but these responses for the most part part have been quick and concise

thanks

Yep, lots of thoughtful and informative responses. Thanks everyone - racing next Saturday and getting pretty excited about it. Will report back on my daring and glorious flyer OTF for the win.

When I started I was lucky if I finished with the group. Attack attack attack is all well and good if you have the capacity for it, but I suspect many first time racers don't. Even now, some races I'm happy if I can even get near the front, let alone attack.

Familiar and encouraging territory. In my first (and only) race I attacked and dropped every rider in offthebackistan that I happened to catch up with :o :D

Hoping for better this year.

not my first race, but I attacked a few times today !

in USAC, as a Cat 5, results mean nothing. a cat 5 gets the same upgrade credit for clipping in and falling over at the start, and quitting, as winning. therefore, there is no downside from a results standpoint. racing aggressively (meaning attacking) and failing lets you learn more about your own abilities than hanging out in the pack squirreling around and finishing 24th or whatever. also, you might just win and find out that you're better at this sport than you thought possible.

it also forces you to get back into a pack and recover while still going fast, this is a skill that too many dont have. it's about the only thing i've got going for me and I utilize it to its max.

it's also safer, and more fun to animate a race.

i'll finish by saying there are only 2 things you should be doing in a race: 1) attacking; 2) planning your next attack.

proceed.


nevermind . . .

False. I crashed last week and received no credit.

Did an official tell you that? You need 10 starts. You started, right?

Did an official tell you that? You need 10 starts. You started, right?

i never asked an official , i did start. Is this something i should contact USAC for?

i never asked an official , i did start. Is this something i should contact USAC for?

Why did you say "False"?

i never asked an official , i did start. Is this something i should contact USAC for?

no, you keep track of your own race resume to submit for upgrades. usac has nothing to do with keeping track of anything for you.

False. I crashed last week and received no credit.

you are wrong.

spend half the time reading the rules as you do posting and you'll end up an official in a week.

no, you keep track of your own race resume to submit for upgrades. usac has nothing to do with keeping track of anything for you.

Exactly. That's what PelotonPoints.com (http://www.pelotonpoints.com) is for. Although I've got some cleaning up to do...so be patient with it.

Exactly. That's what PelotonPoints.com (http://www.pelotonpoints.com) is for. Although I've got some cleaning up to do...so be patient with it.

You should always keep your own "resume." Most of the races I've done were never reported to USAC. Also, a start is a start.

Razor, technically the requirement is "experience." A start is experience. If you feel that you want the experience of actually finishing, that's good for you, but it's not the rule. Hope that clears things up.

no, you keep track of your own race resume to submit for upgrades. usac has nothing to do with keeping track of anything for you.

ok , Thats cool. ( learn something new every day!)

If it's your first race, try not to die or kill anyone else. Everything else is gravy.

This

You know, there's an awful lot of bravado in this thread. Personally I don't think that advising any new racer to keep burning matches until he goes down in flames is likely to help him learn anything about bike racing.

A couple of pages in Joe Parker's book about racing in Europe comes to mind. He says that when he raced overseas some European pros used amphetamines. While it made them think that they were fast, it also made them STUPID. The guys on amphetamines would repeatedly launch attacks at the dumbest times, which would crack everyone else in the peleton up because the attacks were so senseless.

A new racer isn't going to learn anything from senselessly attacking just for sake of attacking, except perhaps that that's probably a stupid strategy.

(I can just imagine how after a race someone might ask a guy who made a knucklehead attack why he took off solo into a 20 mph wind, and he gets this answer: "Cuz the guys on the internet told me it was a good idea".)

Bob

You know, there's an awful lot of bravado in this thread. Personally I don't think that advising any new racer to keep burning matches until he goes down in flames is likely to help him learn anything about bike racing.

A couple of pages in Joe Parker's book about racing in Europe comes to mind. He says that when he raced overseas some European pros used amphetamines. While it made them think that they were fast, it also made them STUPID. The guys on amphetamines would repeatedly launch attacks at the dumbest times, which would crack everyone else in the peleton up because the attacks were so senseless.

A new racer isn't going to learn anything from senselessly attacking just for sake of attacking, except perhaps that that's probably a stupid strategy.

(I can just imagine how after a race someone might ask a guy who made a knucklehead attack why he took off solo into a 20 mph wind, and he gets this answer: "Cuz the guys on the internet told me it was a good idea".)

Bob

I don't need amphetamines to race like a moron.

You know, there's an awful lot of bravado in this thread. Personally I don't think that advising any new racer to keep burning matches until he goes down in flames is likely to help him learn anything about bike racing.

A couple of pages in Joe Parker's book about racing in Europe comes to mind. He says that when he raced overseas some European pros used amphetamines. While it made them think that they were fast, it also made them STUPID. The guys on amphetamines would repeatedly launch attacks at the dumbest times, which would crack everyone else in the peleton up because the attacks were so senseless.

A new racer isn't going to learn anything from senselessly attacking just for sake of attacking, except perhaps that that's probably a stupid strategy.

(I can just imagine how after a race someone might ask a guy who made a knucklehead attack why he took off solo into a 20 mph wind, and he gets this answer: "Cuz the guys on the internet told me it was a good idea".)

Bob

If you can't attack in your first race then don't go to Europe.

Attacking just for the sake of attacking or become someone...ie internet forums...tells you to will quickly see you off the back.
Attacks are purposeful...even if you don't know or understand the reason.
Generally repeated attacks by a small group of racers is to burn off the weak and often dangerous...read newbies...racers.
In such a case grab hold of the tail of that kite and just hold on. Shows brains, balls and some racing skill/knowledge.

There are many good reasons for attacking but not just "because"...
Compared to learning pack and racing skills becoming a physically strong racer is easier. Learn pack skills and your physical skills get a boost just by knowing when and how to use your strength.

Good luck...there is no "quick" way to becoming a good racer but time, practice and experience.