Touring - so why no disk brakes on touring bikes?

Just wondering. I have cantis on my very old touring bike... and I have looked at a couple new bikes like the Bruce Gordons and Trek and LHT, but I don't see disk brakes...

Is it simply weight, or is there some other negative reason for the lack of disk brakes on touring bikes.

I can't wait to show you my disk-braked tourer, as soon as it's finished in a week or two.

Does this look familiar?

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/ARP/ARP123/can-worms_~canworms.jpg

At least it isn't one of these...

http://www.itwouldbescary.com/images/whoopass.jpg

I hope I'm not stepping into anything here...

I test rode a Kona Sutra with STIs and Disc brakes. The braking was horrendous and the levers felt spongey. The bike was discounted to $700 because no one liked how it felt and the shop said they'd never stock them again. I have no idea if they just didn't set them up properly or if there was inherent weakness, but that bike simply didn't stop properly.

On the other side, a friend from the forum built an awesome Soma with disc brakes and STIs and that stopped like a dream.

I hope I'm not stepping into anything here...

I test rode a Kona Sutra with STIs and Disc brakes. The braking was horrendous and the levers felt spongey. The bike was discounted to $700 because no one liked how it felt and the shop said they'd never stock them again. I have no idea if they just didn't set them up properly or if there was inherent weakness, but that bike simply didn't stop properly.

On the other side, a friend from the forum built an awesome Soma with disc brakes and STIs and that stopped like a dream.

Well see, that's why I am wondering... I have discs on my Giant Trance 2 and they are pretty nice... and do a good job even wet. On the other hand a bit of dampness on my touring rims, when riding fully loaded, can mean not stopping soon enough, even with salmon Kool Stops. Now don't get me wrong, the Kool Stops are darn good...

But here is a whole new technology... so why is it not found on touring bikes, typically.

Of course one can build up a darn nice touring bike with any features you want. But that's a different story.

this is a stretch but what the hell

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/fargo/

I would say it's partly tradition (i.e. cantilevers are viewed as simpler, easier to maintain, more "classic", etc.). More importantly, the calipers can also make mounting racks and fenders awkward, though I believe some frames now (e.g. Gunnar) are positioning the rear IS mount in such a way that it doesn't interfere as much.

There are plenty of options for disc-compatible frames and brake levers/calipers these days though, especially if you don't mind running a disc in front and a canti/V-brake in back (then you can use any frame you want and just change out the fork). I don't know if anyone makes a true touring-specific disc fork (i.e. one with dual dropout eyelets and mid-fork rack eyelets, which might make the fork too weak for a disc), but there are plenty of cyclocross disc forks. I've been looking at the Salsa La Cruz (http://salsacycles.com/components/la_cruz_fork/) fork for my new build. I like the forward-facing SS dropouts.

If I was going to use disc brakes I would only bother with the front. Nothing gained on the rear. I almost never use my rear brake as it is... Now on a mountain bike it's a whole different story.

Canti's stop me fast enough and are cheap and easy to maintain. Good enough for me.

It's pretty simple, the touring market is miniscule compared to mtn. bikes, kid bikes and hybrids so there isn't much incentive to introducing a whole new line of wheels and forks and frames when all a manufacturer has to do is grab what's off the shelf and allocate high quality parts for where it matters. Custom and low production manufacturers offer discs. I suspect it'll become more common in the future but for the person who just wants to go on a trip the decision of rim or disc has no bearing on the trip happening whereas a companies ability to sell a bike for a profit hinges on offering the best value for the money.

I was under the impression that cyclocross bikes by definition didn't have disc brakes.

I was under the impression that cyclocross bikes by definition didn't have disc brakes.

That's more a UCI rule than anything else. They don't allow them.

I hope I'm not stepping into anything here...

I test rode a Kona Sutra with STIs and Disc brakes. The braking was horrendous and the levers felt spongey. I don't know what brakes are on the Sutra, but cheap disc brakes are not any better than cheap linear pull brakes, when it comes to stopping power. A good disc brake is better, especially in wet conditions.

As for not being on a touring bike, there are some reasons. One would be the weaker wheels. Another reason has been mentioned above about rack and fender issues. As with anything, there are pros and cons for all options. I have not toured with disc brakes, but I don't think it would bother me at all. I actually like the idea for long mountain descents. I'm always nervous about overheating the rims and having a tire blow off when continuously braking.

I couldn't tell you what was on it. It had a fairly nice group from what I recall...105 stuff mostly.

I don't know what brakes are on the Sutra, but cheap disc brakes are not any better than cheap linear pull brakes, when it comes to stopping power. A good disc brake is better, especially in wet conditions.

I checked the specs and they're Avid BB7 Roads, which are what I use. I found them a bit tricky to dial in at first, especially since it was my first experience with discs. And, of course, no disc brake will stop very well until the pads are broken in, which can take a while.

Just wondering. I have cantis on my very old touring bike... and I have looked at a couple new bikes like the Bruce Gordons and Trek and LHT, but I don't see disk brakes...

Is it simply weight, or is there some other negative reason for the lack of disk brakes on touring bikes.

You need to do more research. There are plenty of touring bikes with disc brakes.

Salsa Vaya, Co-Motion will put them on any of their tourers, Raleigh Sojourn, Jamis Aurora Elite (just added disc brakes this year), Kona Sutra, REI Novara Fargo, etc. etc.

I checked the specs and they're Avid BB7 Roads, which are what I use. I found them a bit tricky to dial in at first, especially since it was my first experience with discs. And, of course, no disc brake will stop very well until the pads are broken in, which can take a while.

I certainly didn't know that, but it does make sense. When I inquired about the bike, even before test riding it, they told me it was discounted heavily because of the braking and that discs don't work well with STIs. I certainly didn't find that to be the case on my friend's Soma and wondered what was causing it.

I have serious brand aversion towards Avid. I had their shorty 4s on my JTS cross bike and found them to be terrible...especially the stock pads. An old set of dia-compes far outperformed them.

I don't know what brakes are on the Sutra, but cheap disc brakes are not any better than cheap linear pull brakes, when it comes to stopping power. A good disc brake is better, especially in wet conditions.

As for not being on a touring bike, there are some reasons. One would be the weaker wheels. Another reason has been mentioned above about rack and fender issues. As with anything, there are pros and cons for all options. I have not toured with disc brakes, but I don't think it would bother me at all. I actually like the idea for long mountain descents. I'm always nervous about overheating the rims and having a tire blow off when continuously braking.

The long mountain descents are what piqued my mind. I did a tour in Baja years ago and the climbs and descents were wicked... coupled with the winter season, there was a lot of rain... and at times my brakes were less than satisfactory.

With regard to the whole tour bike industry... yeah, I can see the issues... my bike was in fact custom built at the time, so I wasn't really depending on the industry per se to deliver what I needed.

I am however looking to get a new bike, and thought I would start with what is available now... I was rather disappointed to NOT see disc brakes as an option... considering my past experience with the mountains (bad) and my recent experience with my MTB (good). My bike back then (which I still have) was something of a hybrid between a road bike and a fat tire MTB, using MTB components for the drive train, but having a fairly upright and long road frame, but with fat tires. (a real mixed beast)

I don't think the Trek 520 has changed in years... except for the components... the LHT doesn't seem to have options for discs either.

Oh well, apparently going custom is the only route... so be it.

You need to do more research. There are plenty of touring bikes with disc brakes.

Salsa Vaya, Co-Motion will put them on any of their tourers, Raleigh Sojourn, Jamis Aurora Elite (just added disc brakes this year), Kona Sutra, REI Novara Fargo, etc. etc.

Thanks... interesting that the Jamis just added them. REI is close to me... so worth a look. I looked at the Konas a few years ago, they had discs but no braze-ons for racks... back then.

I don't know much about disc brakes, as I've never had the opportunity to ride anything with them. My understanding is that they're much more effective than rim brakes, but potentially require more maintenance. Not sure if this is true or not - just what I've heard.

Is it possible that they'd be avoided on an 'expedition ready' tourer for maintenance reasons? Mind you, from what I've heard disc brakes work on bent rims, so that might be an advantage in the middle of nowhere...

When I bought my Norco CCX a few years ago it came with bb7's and cheap SORA brifters, the braking is awesome. Strong and predictable in the dry or the wet. One of the best things is the ease of adjustment. Just passing 1000km on a new set of pads this week, getting a little too much travel on the levers now, so I just turned the adjustment dials in on the calipers a couple clicks. Fast and easy. Spare pads are tiny and light and easy to change.

I ride with Axion Lasalle bags on the rear rack all the time, no interference with the rear caliper. Don't have a front rack so can't comment there. Anyway, I am a larger man, 6'4" and 230 pounds, and when I am coming down a long hill with lots of groceries or gear in the bags and then have to stop suddenly, I can easily modulate the braking to keep it right where I like it - just a fraction below wheel lock-up. The front rotor gets so hot it smokes and hisses in the rain, which I think is cool. No loss of performance on long downhills when its just me and the panniers. When I am towing the trailer and it is quite heavy, I do get some brake fade on longer hills, but that just means squeezing harder than normal and using the rear brake more than normal. I will always prefer a bike with discs now. I love them. Hold out for a touring bike with discs!

-Ryan

p.s. (due to cyclocross regs, Norco has gone back to cross bikes with no disc brakes again I think.)

I think one reason is that one doesn't stop so much on touring bikes. A lot of the time one is noodling along and hours go by with no really dramatic brake use. Compared to urban cycling or MTBs. Obviously your downhills may vary, and I have been on tours where a fair amount of my time was spent dreaming up more effective brake systems.

That said, most manufacturers have price points in mind, and they may only allow one or two big buys, like a Brooks seat. So which do you want, the Brooks and the bar ends, or the BB7s? BB7s are actually a premium buy, in line with what I spent on my Paul Cantis, though more likely to be found on sale at Nashbar. Don't find many Pauls on medium priced touring bikes either.

I have a Marinoni Turismo Extreme with Avid bb7's and Ultegra brifters. It has far superior braking to my Jamis Nova, or my Specialized Tarmac. Have a Blackburn rack on the back, Axiom rack on the front, everything fit fine. Fully loaded, have had no problems on some of the 20+ km decents around here. I would heartily recommend discs to anyone.
Cheers

I was under the impression that cyclocross bikes by definition didn't have disc brakes.

Yeah, because of UCI rules. Cyclocross bikes are much better off with disks. The cantis on my 2009 Tricross Sport are by far my least favourite thing about it, but it's such an expensive upgrade: fork plus wheel plus brakes. And you can't really put hydraulics on it, because of the interrupter brakes. (Although I have contemplated the idea of having two sets of front brakes: hydraulics with normal mountain bike levers, and cantis connected to the drops. Probably a stupid idea though.)

If I was ever building a touring bike from scratch, no question I'd put disk(s) on it.

I have touring bikes with both discs and v-brakes...in my opinion...there is no slam dunk either way. Each system has pros and cons depending on the specifics of a situation both can come out on top.

You can definitely tour just about anywhere with either system if you really want to.

I will say that I have never felt that I was at any disadvantage on a tour with my v-brakes vs. discs.

I hope I'm not stepping into anything here...

I test rode a Kona Sutra with STIs and Disc brakes. The braking was horrendous and the levers felt spongey. The bike was discounted to $700 because no one liked how it felt and the shop said they'd never stock them again. I have no idea if they just didn't set them up properly or if there was inherent weakness, but that bike simply didn't stop properly.

On the other side, a friend from the forum built an awesome Soma with disc brakes and STIs and that stopped like a dream.

The Sutra comes with BB7s, which are excellent brakes. Far superior to any rim brake ever made.

The long mountain descents are what piqued my mind. I did a tour in Baja years ago and the climbs and descents were wicked... coupled with the winter season, there was a lot of rain... and at times my brakes were less than satisfactory.

With regard to the whole tour bike industry... yeah, I can see the issues... my bike was in fact custom built at the time, so I wasn't really depending on the industry per se to deliver what I needed.

I am however looking to get a new bike, and thought I would start with what is available now... I was rather disappointed to NOT see disc brakes as an option... considering my past experience with the mountains (bad) and my recent experience with my MTB (good). My bike back then (which I still have) was something of a hybrid between a road bike and a fat tire MTB, using MTB components for the drive train, but having a fairly upright and long road frame, but with fat tires. (a real mixed beast)

I don't think the Trek 520 has changed in years... except for the components... the LHT doesn't seem to have options for discs either.

Oh well, apparently going custom is the only route... so be it.

Gunnar.

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/rock-tour/

For light-medium touring: http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/fast-lane/

Just wondering. I have cantis on my very old touring bike... and I have looked at a couple new bikes like the Bruce Gordons and Trek and LHT, but I don't see disk brakes...

Is it simply weight, or is there some other negative reason for the lack of disk brakes on touring bikes.

I could have sworn I had disc brakes come stock on my Raleigh Sojourn. ;-)

I test rode a Kona Sutra with STIs and Disc brakes. The braking was horrendous and the levers felt spongey. The bike was discounted to $700 because no one liked how it felt and the shop said they'd never stock them again. I have no idea if they just didn't set them up properly or if there was inherent weakness, but that bike simply didn't stop properly.

Sounds like the brakes weren't properly installed. Most bikes use Avid BB5 or BB7 "Road" calipers when they need compatibility with STI levers. When installed and adjusted properly they work better than the vast majority of rim brakes that I've tried. Failing to dial the brake pads closer to the rotor after installation can lead to very poor braking performance and an extremely spongey feel at the lever...

To me, it depends on the location and type of touring. If you are on the TransAm or in western Europe, then either brake system will work as you could get parts relatively easily within a day or two if needed. However, if I were on the HemisTour (Alaska to Terra del Fuego) or central Asia, or other remote locations, I would definitely want something common and easy to get parts for, thus no disc brakes.

You can get full-on tourers with discs , se the Tout Terrain Panamerican.
It takes some thought to integrate discs, racks and fenders.
One disadvantage of discs is that you need a stiff fork which can result in a harsh ride.

My 2007 REI Safari came stock with Shimano disc brakes. I recently changed over to Avid BB7 and Avid levers and Clean Sweep rotors . I like this set up especially when I am towing my Bob trailer. I like the disc brakes on those long downhills in Oregon, Nevada and Washington.

and yet another option

a custom 29er

has disc brakes

I thought I recognised those bikes, then I read your name Mr Self Propelled:D

I thought I recognised those bikes, then I read your name Mr Self Propelled:D

yup, you got me on that one

I used to think like that too. However, after having disc brakes for many years now and never experiencing a problem aside from slightly warped rotors and frozen brake cables (guess that could happen on a regular brake equipped bike as well anyway -or else just not go out touring in freezing weather!) I'm now not so sure.....

Don't get me wrong, I've never gone touring in some really out of the way place in the world, but if I do, I'm far from convinced I'd give up my tourer with disc brakes. They just seem to be really reliable -my biggest concern would more be the kind of heavy duty racks that could be compatible with disc brakes -but again, I've never had a rack break yet (huge caveat here as I realize I haven't done "heavy duty" touring). I also think in todays world of UPS/Fedex delivery, you'd have to be in a really out of the way place not to be able to get delivery of parts (and if you were, you probably couldn't get regular rim brakes either).

Anyway, as usual, it's your own personal choice!


To me, it depends on the location and type of touring. If you are on the TransAm or in western Europe, then either brake system will work as you could get parts relatively easily within a day or two if needed. However, if I were on the HemisTour (Alaska to Terra del Fuego) or central Asia, or other remote locations, I would definitely want something common and easy to get parts for, thus no disc brakes.

I picture a fully loaded touring rig on a long, steep technical descent. Which type of brakes would you rather have? I have no scientific basis for saying this, but intuitively I'd choose disc brakes. Have you ever felt how hot a rim can get under heavy braking? This is why I chose to put Avid BB7 disc brakes on my touring bike. If disc brakes are inferior, someone should call the manufacturers of virtually every high performance motor vehicle on the planet and clue them in.

bobframe... Either disc or canti or whatever will skid both front and rear tire. That is all the braking you get. With a car, truck or whatever you have tons more contact area for braking. That is the real difference and also limitation of bicycle tires. Not the method of doing so. A rim is a much larger surface area for cooling as well. If you go by that reasoning than you should be running 203mm disc brakes instead of the smaller mountain bike type BB7's. Why not have more stopping power than you have now? Your tire width/contact area is still the biggest problem.

Neither are perfect.

I hope I'm not stepping into anything here...

I test rode a Kona Sutra with STIs and Disc brakes. The braking was horrendous and the levers felt spongey. The bike was discounted to $700 because no one liked how it felt and the shop said they'd never stock them again. I have no idea if they just didn't set them up properly or if there was inherent weakness, but that bike simply didn't stop properly.

Unfortunately your shop either didn't set the brakes up correctly or the pads were not broken in yet. Too bad.

I think in a lot of the cases people don't choose disc brakes on tourers is because people who are touring want to go with "what is proven to work" and this does not include disc brakes from their experiences(since discs are "new'). So demand dried up in the last few years with a number of touring disc rigs getting the ax - mostly due to poor design regarding caliper mounting. Anyways if you ask me it is a case of "what you learn limits what you do" because i doubt discs would really limit you unless you were REALLY out there... one could always carry an extra disc and pads, but not an extra rim.

Anyway, there are a few options out there - keep looking

Unfortunately your shop either didn't set the brakes up correctly or the pads were not broken in yet. Too bad.

I think in a lot of the cases people don't choose disc brakes on tourers is because people who are touring want to go with "what is proven to work" and this does not include disc brakes from their experiences(since discs are "new'). So demand dried up in the last few years with a number of touring disc rigs getting the ax - mostly due to poor design regarding caliper mounting. Anyways if you ask me it is a case of "what you learn limits what you do" because i doubt discs would really limit you unless you were REALLY out there... one could always carry an extra disc and pads, but not an extra rim.

Anyway, there are a few options out there - keep looking

I agree that the shop obviously had no clue what they were doing. That was evidenced by them saying that the brakes sucked and they would never stock that bike again. Those brakes have been proven on many, many bikes to be both powerful and reliable.

I don't understand the fear of disc brakes, really. No, they don't look traditional, which I know is a concern for some (myself included, to a degree). But to question their efficiency, longevity, or power is just silly. I've had disc brakes on my mountain bike since 1999. Same rotors. Pads have been replaced once. Hauling my 300 pound arse around on the bike is probably about the same as a fully loaded touring bike with rider. I didn't baby the bike, either. The bike was jumped off of loading docks, ridden down stairs, flown down rocky singletrack descents at 35mph+, etc. It has a much more peaceful life now - riding at the nature park - but it still has the same rotors, and has never had a failure.

Just a guess, but I'm gonna say that loaded touring isn't really going to be a challenge for a good disc brake.

There are some framebuilders doing it right. Gunnar has the brake mount out of the way of the rack mounts, and I know some other builders do the same.
OMM makes disc brake racks that are designed for real touring.

One last benefit: If you need to pull the rear wheel off while fully loaded, you don't have to dig around under the rack, "stuff", etc. to unhook the rear cantis - just pop the wheel out.

Given some other experiences I've had with that shop, I find it very easy to believe they were dead wrong and that they didn't set the brakes up properly. It also tracks because my friend's Soma with STIs and discs stopped on a dime. If the frame I'm building up now had disc options, I'd definitely try it.

Don't get me wrong, I've never gone touring in some really out of the way place in the world, but if I do, I'm far from convinced I'd give up my tourer with disc brakes. They just seem to be really reliable -my biggest concern would more be the kind of heavy duty racks that could be compatible with disc brakes -but again, I've never had a rack break yet (huge caveat here as I realize I haven't done "heavy duty" touring).

agreed. i wouldn't give up disc brakes for anything, although v brakes and cantis would have better stopping leverage just because they're at the rim - and also because of that, it's the downfall during wet weather :-p

i'm looking out for a steel-type frame, with the disc mount between the seat and chain stays. the only one i've seen so far are i think the salsa fargo and on-one inbred horizontal dropout. i'm a mountain biker by default, and although i wouldn't be tackling trails loaded with gear, i sure wouldn't want to go to 700c or cyclocross wheels - that rules out the salsa for me. as for the on-one, it has a sweet disc mount design, but the front triangle is just microscopic for my size to fit in a large 1.5 liter bottle! urgh.... the main reason why i'm looking at the on-one is the fact that i could mount my tubus directly to the frame and get the disc caliper out of the way...

agreed. i wouldn't give up disc brakes for anything, although v brakes and cantis would have better stopping leverage just because they're at the rim - and also because of that, it's the downfall during wet weather :-p

Yes that's really what sells me on discs too, the wet weather performance and long downhill braking performance. Also, for some reason on my bike cantilevers squeal like crazy, and I got tired of constantly tweaking the toe-in. I'm not sure why. I've tried different pads, brakes, and even a different fork (went from the default Surly Cross-Check fork to a Nashbar/Winwood carbon disc fork). It must have something to do with my rim (Velocity Dyad). The rear is always whisper quiet though.

I can't say the disc had noticeably better stopping power in my case but the other factors outweigh that.



i'm looking out for a steel-type frame, with the disc mount between the seat and chain stays. the only one i've seen so far are i think the salsa fargo and on-one inbred horizontal dropout. i'm a mountain biker by default, and although i wouldn't be tackling trails loaded with gear, i sure wouldn't want to go to 700c or cyclocross wheels - that rules out the salsa for me. as for the on-one, it has a sweet disc mount design, but the front triangle is just microscopic for my size to fit in a large 1.5 liter bottle! urgh.... the main reason why i'm looking at the on-one is the fact that i could mount my tubus directly to the frame and get the disc caliper out of the way...

Check out the Gunnar Rock Tour (http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/rock-tour/). From the pictures it looks like it needs a suspension-corrected fork though. There's also the Rock Hound and Rock Hound 29'er, but from the pictures it looks like they don't have the rack-friendly caliper mount.

"so why no disk brakes on touring bikes?"

Short answer is it's just an old school thing that is prevalent in the touring community, additionally, touring bikes are typically built very well and are handed down. These older bikes are not designed for discs.

But as you have read, lot's of folks are using and loving disc's. Trying to retrofit them to an older bike will / can give you fits, better to use linear-pull cant's in that case. Even with Linear's you have to select the right levers. If all else fails, you can use traditional cantis, then just be sure to get the right pads for your application and learn to set them up.

Yes that's really what sells me on discs too, the wet weather performance and long downhill braking performance. Also, for some reason on my bike cantilevers squeal like crazy, and I got tired of constantly tweaking the toe-in. I'm not sure why. I've tried different pads, brakes, and even a different fork (went from the default Surly Cross-Check fork to a Nashbar/Winwood carbon disc fork). It must have something to do with my rim (Velocity Dyad). The rear is always whisper quiet though.

I can't say the disc had noticeably better stopping power in my case but the other factors outweigh that.




Check out the Gunnar Rock Tour (http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/rock-tour/). From the pictures it looks like it needs a suspension-corrected fork though. There's also the Rock Hound and Rock Hound 29'er, but from the pictures it looks like they don't have the rack-friendly caliper mount.

I had the exact same problem with a set of Avid 4 cantis on my JTS (which had open sport rims). I switched to a DT brake pad set and that helped a little, but they still squealed like mad in some conditions. In rain people looked around for the truck.

"so why no disk brakes on touring bikes?"

Short answer is it's just an old school thing that is prevalent in the touring community, additionally, touring bikes are typically built very well and are handed down. These older bikes are not designed for discs.

But as you have read, lot's of folks are using and loving disc's. Trying to retrofit them to an older bike will / can give you fits, better to use linear-pull cant's in that case. Even with Linear's you have to select the right levers. If all else fails, you can use traditional cantis, then just be sure to get the right pads for your application and learn to set them up.

I had no problem retrofitting a front disk to my Fuji World
http://www.chipcom.net/bikes/fuji.jpg

of course, the next time I do a fully loaded tour I'll be using this:
http://www.chipcom.net/bikes/BigDummy.jpg

Help me understand that type of set-up.
You move the rear panniers back which allows you to make them bigger(without heal clearance problems), eliminating the need for front panniers. Is that the basics?
Weight distribution is essentially the same, more of your body weight gets transferred to the front tire, but the front pannier weight goes to the back.

I had no problem retrofitting a front disk to my Fuji World
http://www.chipcom.net/bikes/fuji.jpg

of course, the next time I do a fully loaded tour I'll be using this:
http://www.chipcom.net/bikes/BigDummy.jpg

What's the benefit of the curved top tube? I've seen a Kona cargo hauler that looked a little like that, but I remember it having a straight tt.

Help me understand that type of set-up.
You move the rear panniers back which allows you to make them bigger(without heal clearance problems), eliminating the need for front panniers. Is that the basics?
Weight distribution is essentially the same, more of your body weight gets transferred to the front tire, but the front pannier weight goes to the back.

The main advantage of a Big Dummy, xtracycle or other long bike is that it is easier to pack and unpack, easier to pack more stuff (if you can tolerate the weight of it) and much easier to haul longer items like tent/lodge poles.

I'll still be using a front rack & panniers and handlebar bag, it handles much nicer with some weight on the front, especially when climbing.

What's the benefit of the curved top tube? I've seen a Kona cargo hauler that looked a little like that, but I remember it having a straight tt.

The only benefit I can see is more stand over clearance. You'd have to ask Surly what their thinking was in this case.