Touring - Bike touring and safety

I'm an 18 year old male and my parents are really worried about me going touring.

Here's the deal, I want to go on a trip to visit my friend who lives in mexico, it would involve about 30 days in the US and 30 days in mexico. They're worried that mexico is too dangerous of a country and I will surely get killed by robbers on the side of the road. I have been to mexico before (with my parents) and I've gone there with my church, totally about 40 days total spent in the country. But they're set on the idea that mexico is a dangerous country.

Now, I just started learning about bicycle touring last fall. I've been in school since then and haven't gotten to go on my own tour yet. My plan was to do a short tour during spring break before I go on a long one, but my parents decided to take us on vacation instead. So before this trip, I will only have the chance to go on 2-3 day tours to get experience. I'm not stupid, when I make it to the border, I'll judge if I'm prepared enough to travel in another country, I will consider the possibility of turning around and staying in the US.

But my parents are just so stubborn and will refuse to believe that it can be safe to ride a bike in mexico. I've spent a great deal of time on CGoaB and blogs learning about what to do, what to avoid. My parents always want me to try new things, they even told me they would buy me a ticket to europe to go touring there instead of mexico. I've read all these journals about people's first tours being in china, vietnam, south america, mexico, and they all had a great time.

I think they're just scared because its not something that everybody does. My mom loves travelling, we've been to europe and around the US. But her idea of travelling is staying in hotels and being a tourist. I want to get there on my own power and experience the wild. I believe I can do this, I want to accomplish something. I think it would be wonderful experience and I'll have an amazing time. Millions of people travel in Mexico every year, but suddenly introduce the idea of being on a bike, and they're all against it.

What do you think? Do you think touring in Mexico is dangerous?

just to let u know...i watch an nbc dateline about a week ago and a little town outside of mexico city kidnap ppl with money. there are some kidnapping problem in mexico. it is not a major problem, but it is still a problem. also since u would be touring near the border, did u know there is a major drug wars going on around that area? just do a google search on drug wars and kidnapping in mexico. so dont let any bandits see u when u do ur touring. so if u r an american, just dont show ur bling. even then, i will still be cautious. if u do get kidnap...prepare for a long negotiation...at least 1 year. u should take up on ur parents offer for the plane tix to europe. i dont wanna scare u kid...but it is an ugly world out there. u should take advice from ur parents. i dont wanna see u on the news.

Have u seen the movie "taken." U sound like the naïve 18 yrs girl who thinks know more than the parents and doesn't listen to his dad warning about the ugly world out there and then got kidnap and taken into a sex slave shop. It is a kick ass movie. I recommend u watch it before u visit a country like mexico. There is some true to this movie.

I would never tour in Mexico, especially along the border. I live in San Diego and nobody I know goes for fun to TJ. I'm speaking for me, however. I'm sure that others who post here would go.

China and Vietnam are not Mexico. I've been to both; they are comparatively much safer countriies. So are Argentina and Chile. If you have a chance to go to Europe, why not tour there?

Doesn't matter what folks on here think. All that matter is what your parents think. They know and care about you.

Anyway, perhaps you could cool your heels on this for a couple of years, become a bit independent financially, and then just announce you're heading south and will be in touch. Plenty of time for touring adventures. In the meantime, make it your goal to become fluent in Spanish. The trip will be lot more fun and meaningful.

There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the drug wars going on there at the moment. Why not try a transamerica or european tour?

I understand your need for self reliance. You feel that you won't know that you have it until you proved yourself. One day or the other you'll have to do the test. It must be when you feel ready and it will be better if you don't postpone then. You seem to have a head on your shoulders but sometimes it isn't enough. 18 y/o here is adulthood. However, if 21 y/o is legally needed in your parts, then tough luck for you: you may have no choice but to wait.

In the meanwhile go to Europe: it is beautiful and way less civilized than your mom seems to believe. Remember that the proof is for yourself, nobody else.

I haven't heard any reports of kidnapping or robbery from bike tourists who've been there recently. Some blogs to check out:

http://whileoutriding.wordpress.com/
http://www.wishfish.org/
http://www.tour.tk/country-information/mexico.htm
http://familyonbikes.org/
http://nowheresoon.com

The state of texas officials are asking people not go to Mexico or even South Padre Island for spring break. South Padre is a spring break destination spot and when the tourist boards are saying don't come here, it is bad.

I have multiple friends who just cycled SD to La Paz with absolutely nothing but positive things to say. Fly under the radar as much as you can. Hide your wealth.

I am one of the guys that think people worry too much. And you would likely be OK once you get well away from the border cities. But right now, I would not ride Mexico or even the worst of the border cities on the US side.

an FYI FWIW but I think that the U.S. and Mexico released an advisory for foreigners traveling in any of the border towns, as kidnapping/ransom is on the rise. I hold no opinion on this, as you need to make the decision, but you might want to check it out.

Don't tour in Mexico right now. This iJET assessment came out Friday:


SR Mexico (Security Rating: 4) - At least Eight Command-Level Police Killed in 72 Hours: At least eight command-level police officers have been killed in the southern state of Guerrero since March 8, according to local reports early March 11. The murders occurred in the municipalities of Chilpancingo, Petatlan and Ciudad Altamirano.

iJET Analysis: The state of Guerrero has traditionally been controlled by the Beltran-Leyva organization. Since its former leader Arturo Beltran Leyva was killed in a shootout with Mexican marines in late December, a fierce battle has been waging for the control of smuggling routes and selling points in many areas of the state of Guerrero. While no shootouts have been reported in Guerrero's tourist destinations, foreigners visiting Acapulco and Ixtapa should stay in the hotel strip.
SR Mexico (Security Rating: 4) - Drug Cartel Violence Rising in Mexico City: According to Mexico's Reforma daily March 11, drug-related murders are rising in Mexico City's metropolitan area. A recent study indicates that between January and March, at least 137 people have been murdered in different neighborhoods in Mexico City, compared to 100 homocides registered during the same period in 2009.

iJET Analysis: Unlike many states along the US-Mexico border, Mexico City has not been at the center of the drug war. This report confirms that the current dispute between different factions of the Beltran Levya organization and Los Zetas has intensified in recent weeks. Just hours after the report was issued, Mexico City's public security minister acknowledged that the police force has been outpaced by criminal organizations. The European Union issued a statement late March 10 saying that the escalating violence in Mexico has prompt many European governments to warn its citizens against nonessential travel to northern states in Mexico.
SR - Situation Report: Evolving situation or event
Security Rating 4: High Threat

"iJET helps multinational organizations monitor, protect against and respond to global threats." They basically monitor news and state department data and issue assessments to client companies.

Your parents would be worried sick, but as parents we all do that. I wouldn't have a problem with touring mexico but you may want to postpone that to appease them.

Have you read this 18 year olds journal. It's one of the better ones at crazyguy.

Luke Parkhurst (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=RrzKj&doc_id=1736&v=17v)

Big drug war right now. Not the best time to travel in that direction.

Your parents will always worry about you. Cut them some slack. Few others in the world give a damn about you. And none of them care as much about you as your parents do. A parent's job is to first care for you because you are incapable of caring for yourself. As you get older, into the teenaged years, your parent's job is to substitute good judgement until yours developes. This isn't said to insult you, just the way it is.

In this case, your parents warning a young, relatively wealthy, woman not to travel to an impovished nation in the midst of a drug war where the government has lost control of vast portions of the country seems to be good advice.

Go to europe, ride the Alps. It will be the experience of a lifetime!

I'm an 18 year old male and my parents are really worried about me going touring.


I think they're just scared because its not something that everybody does. My mom loves travelling, we've been to europe and around the US. But her idea of travelling is staying in hotels and being a tourist. I want to get there on my own power and experience the wild. I believe I can do this, I want to accomplish something. I think it would be wonderful experience and I'll have an amazing time. Millions of people travel in Mexico every year, but suddenly introduce the idea of being on a bike, and they're all against it.

What do you think? Do you think touring in Mexico is dangerous?


My $.02 is that you'd be a fool to push for a trip to Mexico when you're probably financially dependent on your parents and they're encouraging you to have an adventure in Europe. Seriously what do you have to lose here? Put together a two week trip in the US for a shake down cruise to see what works then head over there.

My gut sense is that some research will steer you away from areas of higher risk in Mexico but Mexico isn't the issue, it's primarily keeping peace with folks who are supporting you.

Your mothers fears aren't based on the discomfort level in touring or that it's not something "everyone" does. It's because she's lived longer than you and has some knowledge about what deep loss is. You really don't or you wouldn't characterize her fear so simply.

You will have great adventures right in your own state and in Europe. Fly into Spain and tour it. Your mind will be blown.

Man, if they are willing to pop for a ticket to Europe, take it! You will find lots of students on the road. I have toured in Mexico, and most people are very nice, if they aren't driving, but the drivers are really really terrible. Poor road conditions and aggressive driving make it not so pleasurable to cycle. I work in Germany in the summer, and take a several week tour in Europe whilst I am there. Germany, Denmark, Austria, and Switzerland have fabulous touring routes with lots to pick from. Spain, France and Italy are really something if your tour coincides with one of the major stage races. Czech Republic and Poland are cheaper, less traveled, and beautiful. Sweden and northern Denmark are wild and free. I always ride self-contained and camp, so it's not like you need hotels. Food and drink are excellent pretty much everywhere.

seen as im from ireland and know zip about mexico i would advise you to get in touch with your buddy in mexico tell him/her you can't make it this time around .but if he fancied a tour in wonderful europe .seen as your parents are providing finance for there piece of mind ,and yes your parents are much wiser than you honest.go to europe.

It's just not worth putting your parents through that worry. There are plenty of wonderful places to tour in the world, including right here in the U.S.

The big problem in Mexico isn't so much the violence. You probably stand a pretty good chance that nothing will happen. The problem is that if bad things do happen, there is no place to run. Bad stuff can pretty much happen all over the world. But in most countries, at least you have the police (in Italy you have the Carabinieri, those guys are awesome) .

In Mexico the police are most likely your worst enemy or they can be your best friend. The problem is there is no way to know for sure. Pretty much the only people that you can really trust are yourself and perhaps your friend.

Nope I would figure somewhere else to tour to keep your parents happy. But you know they will worry no matter where you pick. That is their job. :)

Oh and you should be really grateful they are so concerned. :)

Listen to your parents. You can always go at a later date when things hopefully calm down with Mexico. Your much closer to there for travel later, fairly cheaply. Man id go for the trip to Europe which you might not get another chance for. Or you could probably travel North America minus Mexico and never see everything,in a lifetime. Learn about your own country personally. If you are still being supported and living with your parents i believe they get final say. Your turn when your on your own.

Man id go for the trip to Europe which you might not get another chance for.

It's why I am going back to Italy this year. No telling what next year is going to bring. My guess is that long distance travel will pretty much be reserved for the wealthy, in the not too distant future.

Gunmen killed a U.S. consulate employee and her husband as they drove in this violent border city with their baby in the back seat, minutes after the husband of another consular employee was shot to death and his two children wounded, officials said Sunday. Security forces suspected a drug gang hit, but offered no motive.Definitely not the time to go to Mexico.

Take the bus to visit your friend. Rent or even buy a bike down there and travel around locally together. Your parents will most likely not a much problem with that scenario.

I'd try to do a one-two week trip to Mexico, without a bike; and a six week bike tour in the US.

I'd have to agree: cut your parents a little slack, and be wary about Mexico.


Millions of people travel in Mexico every year, but suddenly introduce the idea of being on a bike, and they're all against it.

There's a world of difference between flying to an established tourist area or a small interior town and riding through the border region. I can't over-emphasize this. If you wanted to fly your bike down to Playa del Carmen or Real de Catorce, that would be very different from riding across the border into Juarez (where some US consular workers were just murdered) or Tijuana.

I've read many a tour report of people going into Mexico without issue. The robberies happen around tourist areas. If you travel small towns, you will be fine. People love to fear. I'm quite surprised the fear mongering going on.

I would personally make good time through the border areas, but otherwise it would be perfectly fine.

I would go to Mexico just to spite everything telling you not to risk it, it's dangerous, listen to your parents. Some people are stupid that way though.

I'm currently on a tour in Mexico. It's not the scary place it's made out to be. I've had an amazing time, met incredible people. I haven't felt at all threatened except by the passing cars, trucks, and buses. You just have to be smart... and speak enough Spanish to manage. I don't have any advice about convincing your parents... but, if you want to ask me any questions about touring in Mexico, feel free to e-mail me:
hubo85 AT gmail.com.

Point your mom to our website - www.familyonbikes.org (http://www.familyonbikes.org) Many young people have sent that to Mom and Dad - if two young kids can cycle from Alaska to Argentina, surely you can bike Mexico!

We loved Mexico! I can truly say it was one of our favorite countries. We've spent a total of about 6 months cycling various parts of Mexico with our sons and we've never had a problem at all.

A link to the current State Department advisory for Mexico:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_mexico.html

Your first post in the thread cites an episode of Dateline and some Hollywood movie for your opinion of Mexico. I think it's safe to say you have an exaggerated sense of the dangers in Mexico. Have you traveled there at all? Recently?

Have you read the State Department Warning (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_mexico.html)? Mexico is a risky place right now.

Well, let's see. You can go tour Europe on your parents' dime, view the Eiffel Tower, drool over various assorted bare nipples on the Cote D'Azur, check out the canals of Venice and the tower in Pisa, maybe take in the Colosseum, lose your virginity in the Netherlands, and just generally take a trip that most people only dream of.

Or you can pay your own way to a third world hellhole from which millions of people are desperately trying to flee, and hope that you don't get arrested, shot, or kidnapped, all the while avoiding drinking anything that might contain water and enjoying the sights (and smells!) of open sewers and federales killed in the latest drug battle.

Tough call.

I'm an 18 year old male and my parents are really worried about me going touring.......

.....What do you think? Do you think touring in Mexico is dangerous?

Aside from your age and parental safety concerns some perspective on Mexico seems to be needed instead of the fear mongering of the usual Tv news and commentary shows. I have been bike touring in Mexico periodically for decades and have survived without mishap. I have heard the same safety arguments against Mexico travel by any means over those decades. Yet the overall trend in all crime has been downward since the dangerous 1980's just as crime has declined in the US over the same period. Of course you would not know that from the typical MSM sources who believe that "if it bleeds it leads the headlines".

Many of the comments so far have reflected this fearful stereotyping attitude to an entire country. As I recall from psychology long ago fear activates the reptilian brain for fight or flight while shutting off the more rational portions of the brain. Fear is not a very useful way to run a life unless you just want to stay home and never have new experiences among other cultures. Life is not risk free but a bike has always been a good meeting point for me in other countries.

The following article from a group that advises governments about safety and other issues gives a different perspective:
Just how dangerous is Mexico?

Posted By Ian Bremmer (http://eurasia.foreignpolicy.com/blog/2193) http://www.foreignpolicy.com/images/091022_meta_block.gif Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 11:41 AM


http://eurasia.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/16/just_how_dangerous_is_mexico




By Allyson Benton
The drive-by murders of a U.S. consulate employee, her husband, and the Mexican husband of another employee in the Mexican border town of Ciudad Juarez this weekend have pushed Mexico's drug violence back into the American media spotlight. Even before these shootings, a spike in deadly violence linked to the Mexican government's campaign against drug cartels has provoked charges that President Felipe Calderon has started a war his government can't win.
The problem is a serious one for Mexico's security, its politics, and its people. But it's important to put this violence in perspective.
Rates of violent crime are on the rise in Mexico, but they remain lower than in the not-so-distant past -- and lower than today's violence in other Latin American countries of comparable size and wealth.
First, Mexico's murder rate has fallen sharply from a decade ago. The National Public Security System reports that in 2008, the most recent year with available data, 12 people per 100,000 were the victims of murder. In 1997, the number was 17. In the late 1980s, the murder rate hovered near 20, according to the National Statistics and Geographic Institute.
Second, drug-related murders are focused almost entirely in the northern and western states where cartel activity is concentrated. Murder rates among citizens not involved in the drug trade continue to decline.
Finally, here's a bit of regional perspective. Mexico's 2008 murder rate of 12 per 100,000 is less than half the most recent (2006) reported rates for Brazil (25). Colombia's murder rate has fallen dramatically thanks to President Alvaro Uribe's investment in security, but in 2009 the rate was still at 35. In Venezuela in 2008, the murder rate reached 58, a number that appears to be rising. Only Argentina, with 5.3 murders per 100,000 people in 2007, suffers from less deadly violence among the wealthier Latin American countries. The FBI puts the US murder rate at 5.4.
Foreign investors and business people also fear the risk of kidnapping in Mexico. Here again, the numbers put the problem in context. Kidnappings in Mexico have fallen from 1.1 per 100,000 people in 1997 to 0.8 in 2008 -- though the number may be increasing again. As for the regional comparison, though reliable data is hard to come by given that some victims choose not to report it, kidnapping rates in Venezuela have increased dramatically in recent years to an estimated 2.4 per 100,000 people. Colombia's rate has declined dramatically in recent years, from a high of 8.9 in 2000 to just 0.5 in 2009.
Violent crime, particularly involving the drug trade, is a serious problem for Mexico and the country's people. But context is crucial for issues so easily sensationalized.
Allyson Benton is a Latin America analyst at Eurasia Group.

I'm with Six jours on this. Go to Europe and overload yourself on all the history, scenery, alcohol and attractive girls you can find. Tour through rural France, then take the Danube trail through southern Germany, Austria and Hungary. There's plenty of time to tour in Mexico. I think warnings and unsavoury events are often blown way out of proportion. But if there's enough anecdotal evidence that a place is unsafe, it gets to a point where you're either brave or stupid to go. I would love to encourage you to go. You'd probably be OK. But dude, your parents are offerring you a ticket to Europe. You would very, very quickly forget about Mexico while riding through rural France or meandering your way through Italy. You'll gain a heap of exerience about touring in some very bike tour-friendly countries. In three to five years' time, all will probably be quiet and peaceful in Mexico and you can tackle it as a seasoned tourist.

My first tour was a three week trip in China. I was 31 and moderately well-travelled. I'm a guy and can speak a modest level of Chinese. My mum was worried sick! She had a big poster of China up on a wall and apparently was putting little markers on the town names as she heard of my progress! China is incredibly safe. I walk around at night through dark alleys in very poor neighbourhoods and don't think twice about it. I would never do that at home in Australia.

Sometimes perception becomes reality. As far as mum is concerned Mexico is dangerous; dangerous right now and probably dangerous always. She might be right (she might now). But who cares what the real danger factor is on a scale of 1-10 because you won't change her mind and you've got an amazing chance to do a trip most 18 year olds can only dream of.

I just wish I'd been as clever as you have been, and received a free return ticket to Europe offer when I told mum I was going to tour in China. Instead I gave her no room to change my mind and stubbornly went ahead with my trip. I guess that as a 31 year old it would have been poor form to accept the ticket though :)

http://www.powercycle.net/

He ^ just passed the border recently. No issue at all. Many cyclists go through areas like Columbia without issue. It comes down to where you go across and where you stay. Stay away from the spring break locations. Those are where the issue lie for Americans. Stay to small towns, and yes, route around places reported to be dangerous.

I'm quite surprised at how fear mongering many people in this forum are. I'm quite let down. People need to think a little, just a little.

That being said. If it Europe on your parent's dime, do that. :) Mexico can wait till next year.

Well, let's see. You can go tour Europe on your parents' dime, view the Eiffel Tower, drool over various assorted bare nipples on the Cote D'Azur, check out the canals of Venice and the tower in Pisa, maybe take in the Colosseum, lose your virginity in the Netherlands, and just generally take a trip that most people only dream of.

Or you can pay your own way to a third world hellhole from which millions of people are desperately trying to flee, and hope that you don't get arrested, shot, or kidnapped, all the while avoiding drinking anything that might contain water and enjoying the sights (and smells!) of open sewers and federales killed in the latest drug battle.

Tough call.

The way you wrote it, the second choice has much more of the spirit of adventure and adversity that attracts many people to touring. Why camp when you can sleep in a bed? Why bicycle when you can ride in a car?

Perhaps it can be agreed that an 18 YO potentially has 50+ years of touring ahead of him and that there will be safer times to tour Mexico. The important thing to to get out there - somewhere - and ride while there is opportunity to do so.

Perhaps it can be agreed that an 18 YO potentially has 50+ years of touring ahead of him and that there will be safer times to tour Mexico. The important thing to to get out there - somewhere - and ride while there is opportunity to do so.

I do agree with you. There are better times to go to Mexico. I also think it quite unfair to categorize an entire country as a pit because some border towns are having issues. Would you not have to do some basic planning and route around the danger? No. But I believe the trip can be quite safe. Over at http://ask.metafilter.com/139166/What-do-I-need-to-know-before-bike-touring-in-Mexico it's the same consensus. The killing aren't as random as they seem. "Murder rates among citizens not involved in the drug trade continue to decline."

Many people have toured Mexico and have been perfectly fine.

When I was young in Canada I'd often hear similar things said about travelling to the States. Mostly based on TV portrayals of NYC street gangs or movies about gun totin' yokels who shot first and asked questions later. It was true that the violent crime rate was much higher in the US than in Canada. But does that mean it was unwise to cross the border into North Dakota in the late 70's?

The media sensationalizes.. If you want a realistic story, possibly the US State Department country advisories they post on their website might give you an honest evaluation.. The shoot out in front of the Ciduad Juarez US consulate is not a good omen... The State Department website bulletins are based on Diplomatic and CIA data , I'd hope they give you some truth..

The media sensationalizes.. If you want a realistic story, possibly the US State Department country advisories they post on their website might give you an honest evaluation.. The shoot out in front of the Ciduad Juarez US consulate is not a good omen... The State Department website bulletins are based on Diplomatic and CIA data , I'd hope they give you some truth..

When I bike toured Mexico and South America I too read the official warnings of the State Dept and CIA. They were completely wrong about how it would impact me on my bike. If you are a moderately wealthy American tourist on a bus tour staying at the higher end hotels you may well be a target of a criminal just as in the US. At street level and in the countryside I met nothing but hospitality and positive behavior by people in countries characterized as dangerous and violent by the State Dept and CIA. I was viewed on a bike as so poor that I could not afford the 5 Sucre bus ticket in Ecuador. Hardly a worthy target for criminals seeking ransom!

The contrast between official warnings and the on ground reality on a bike are stark. Just read some current CGOAB journals of bike tourists daring to ride across a devilishly dangerous place like Iran where their biggest problem is too many offers of food, lodging and hospitality by those crazed and violent Islamic Iranians!!
Warnings are means of CYA-Cover Your @ss- for liability reasons and they use stereotypes for whole countries when the danger applies to public officials and those displaying their wealth to confirm their own sense of importance in bling of all sorts.

I too have found the ignorant fearfulness expressed in this thread as unexpected and disconcerting. But it may reflect something positive in more people joining the bike touring ranks. I hope that they and others will replace their opinionated ignorance with knowledge from direct experience from touring rather than from fear mongering media.

I too have found the ignorant fearfulness expressed in this thread as unexpected and disconcerting. But it may reflect something positive in more people joining the bike touring ranks. I hope that they and others will replace their opinionated ignorance with knowledge from direct experience from touring rather than from fear mongering media.Really, I have heard similar comments from people who have decided to visit others countries on the State Dept. watch/advisory list. Those are the same people that then b*tched about the US military not helicoptering them out of country fast enough when all hell broke loose.

Hey guys

ok, first, vincentnyc, shut up. In your first post you cited Taken as a source. That's utterly idiotic, and you didn't mention anything about how it was the girls fault that they were kidnapped. They gave a random stranger their address and told him they were alone. #1 way to get kidnapped, raped, and killed. I'm not that stupid.

Thanks everyone for all the advice. I kinda do see the other side now. I wasn't entirely aware that the situation had escalated in recent months. I have been aware that is has always been a dangerous place.

Anyways, I'm not going on tour in mexico. My family is going on vacation in Europe in July, and I just found out we are leaving at a earlier date than I thought, which leaves less time for touring. So because of time restraints and because my parents are really close to not letting me go at all, I won't be in mexico. Maybe its just cognitive dissonance. Maybe you guys convinced me. But I would still love to go on tour in Mexico in the future. I think arctos said it best, some people just let the fear pursuade them. I think alot of America is controlled by fear, and it stops them from doing anything. The news and media raving about that American consulate couple being killed is proof of that. I've seen my friend waste years of her life because she is scared of everything.

Thanks everyone who said they have toured in mexico and loved it. I'm glad you guys wanted to try it for yourselves. And thanks nancy, I had actually already showed my mom your blog. She thought you were insane and that no parent would take their kids into Tijuana. I really admire you guys, I can only imagine how much experience your kids are going to have by the time they're adults.


As far as going to Europe, I've already been there last summer, and I loved it, and I'll love going there again. But the reason I want to tour is to experience the wild, see the landscape, and see what nature's got. And I think America or mexico would be just as good a place a Europe. (Personally, the Swiss Alps is one of the most beautiful places ever).

Awesome, you're right that fear is often a problem in America but that's really an entirely different conversation from the issues you have with the folks. I had to update my understanding of the crime problem in Juarez and border cities last year. I wasn't aware it had gone downhill that much.
The funny thing is that in 1973 I thought of Texas the way your mom and others describe Mexico. There was no way in hell I (long haired kid) I would have toured/traveled through Texas.

FWIW right after 9/11 I took my daughters down to Mexico simply because it was such a deal and travel bookings had dropped off substantially. At that time my 18 yr old nephew had planned to travel to Europe and his mom was extremely upset over the prospect and wanted me to dissuade him from going. I said he should go. He was gone for about seven months. Pretty sure he exposed himself to more danger than you would riding in Mexico.

Coming from the perspective of an over 50yr old who started off on a month long bike trip in the fall after high school and did a slew of tours in California and one from Utah to Colorado in subsequent years I can say there's a lot of wilds and nature in the US and Europe. One of the things I discovered touring throughout California and the west coast was that I could take a week long trip every month and never have the same experience. I rode up and down the coast of California and had a different trip each time. Rode over the Sierras in different places and it was different each time. I figure I saw 5% of California over ten years of heavy riding. Later as I joined a racing club and raced I still covered more territory I'd never seen before.

When I was 21 I spent six months traveling about Europe and lived for three months in Spain. I was glad I didn't make the trip when I was younger as I'd grown a lot since 18 and could appreciate what I experienced better.
Seems to me the most important trip is the one that you make happen, whether it's in Mexico, Canary Islands, Basque region or Utah.

The way you wrote it, the second choice has much more of the spirit of adventure and adversity that attracts many people to touring. Why camp when you can sleep in a bed? Why bicycle when you can ride in a car?

Then maybe we should all be booking tours of Haiti. Not that we're using other peoples' misfortune for our own entertainment...

Locked for cool down and clean up on isle nine.

Doors open again.

Then maybe we should all be booking tours of Haiti. Not that we're using other peoples' misfortune for our own entertainment...

I am sure the Haitians would love to have more tourists and the dollars that they bring.

But who said anything about using other people's misfortune for our own entertainment? You described a choice between a tour in the lap of comfort and civilization versus a tour in a difficult environment full of challenges. I pointed out that bicycle touring tends to attract people who prefer the later. If someone was going to choose comfort over challenge, they would probably not have chosen bicycle over car in the first place.

Most of us would consider being kidnapped and murdered a little too much spice in our lives. But if that's the kind of "challenge" you're looking for, nobody's stopping you. Given a choice, I'd prefer the topless beach, but maybe that's just me.

Well, its not choosing to get kidnapped over going to a topless beach. I weigh the risks and possibilities, I can acknowledge that there is a chance to get kidnapped, but might still choose to go to mexico over france.


LeeG, have you read A Walk Across America by Peter Jenkins? you sound like you would enjoy it. In 1973, he had pretty much the save view you did. In his mind, he would be shot on sight when he walked into Alabama because he was a yankee (he too had long hair). But he decided to walk across the country and meet all the people and see what they're really like. And he had a great time. Sure there were some problems, and a few threats to his life, but he wouldn't trade the trip for anything. That's the way I see it, almost nobody regrets their tour. There might be troubles during the tour, but most everybody loves it in the end. Its just a matter of weighing the risks and chances of coming back at all.

thanks, I'll look it up. I met a fellow last year who has had a colorful life. In the forties and fifties his parents lived in Europe and India. At age 17 started his great bike adventure in India hoping to ride to Paris but only made it a few thousand miles. Hell of a story before entering the war in Vietnam as a helicoptor pilot in the 60's. His bike was a Peugeot 10spd, steel rims.

I've got a great book for you. The Places In Between by Rory Stewart. It's not about bicycles but it's a story about an adventure. He walked across Afghanistan in January 2002

http://www.rorystewartbooks.com/