Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Wow - That's a New One to Me...

I was riding along a MUP today and was flagged down by a cyclist coming the other way. After we stopped he pointed at my PB Blaze 1W headlight (which I had set on the strobe setting) and said, "I'm an epileptic and those strobe lights can cause me to go into seizure." It was so unexpected I could hardly form a response. I apologized and assured him that I would leave it on steady mode from now on. He also mentioned that he understood the strobe setting on the rear light (a PB Superflash), citing our city's traffic, and said he was okay with that.

It's automatic for me to turn on the front and rear strobes as soon as I get on the bike - day or night. Where do I draw the line; who's safety is of more concern, mine or his? If the strobe function on my lights can cause seizures in epileptics then why didn't they come with a warning? Don't emergency services (police, fire, ambulance) use strobe lights on the front of their vehicles when responding to emergencies? Now, if I was riding the MUP exclusively I would leave it on the steady setting out of consideration for my fellow cyclists and pedestrians, but I was on this particular one while using it to connect between city streets and it never occurred to me to change it from the strobe setting.

I plan to contact my national Epilepsy Society (assuming there is one) and inquire about this incident, but I wanted to post this here to start a discussion and to see if anyone else has had a similar experience. I would be especially interested to hear from any epileptics who use these forums and to learn from their experience.

Ride safe, everyone! :ride:

I have the rear on flashing all the time. The fronts are always flashing unless I'm on a dark road where I'll leave it solid coz I get annoyed by the flashing myself.

"I'm an epileptic and those strobe lights can cause me to go into seizure." It was so unexpected I could hardly form a response.

I'm a recovering alcoholic and smelling the RedHook brewery on my commute home might cause me to cruise on over and relapse with a pint or three; but I don't expect them to shut down on account of it.
You can't treat the world like a giant grade school and take away everyone's peanut butter just because one person is allergic.

It's true , I suffer from migraines which also can be triggerred by strobe type displays.Read it is a form of epileptcy (SP?). Watching some screen savers liek some of the older types, with firework type displays ahve triggred migraines in my case. Other things tht have triggered a amigraine, bright flash refection of the sun off of a windshield while driving.

Although it may be true, I'm not stupid so I don't sit and stare at such displays! Am I supposed to stop the world from driving or reflecting the sun.

Another thing is the graphics of some video games. I'd bet 5 bucks the dude is sitting at home playing Mario Brothers right now!:D

Tell the dude to look aways as you approach, and quit playing video games, that's what I do! They don't seem to trigger symptoms unless you sit there and stare at the strobe display, IMO.

Yeah I agree!! I think that if you were in constant contact with the guy his request would be justified. But being a stranger i think that he should look away!!!

I wouldn't be too concerned about it. By the way you are the safest rider 've ever heard of flashing light front and back while on a MUP!

I used to use strobes on the paved bike trails but then realized they were overkill if I was wearing a bright color. so now I only use the strobes in traffic when I'm on the roadway.

one day I was in bright gear and had the strobes going and a little kid who was just learning to ride and saw me coming at him - poor kid lost it and went down. Mom & Dad were right there so I didn't stop but I started thinking about how distracting I might be. plus I got tired of telling me my light was on ... hahaha LOL

HOWEVER! I did get lots of people noticing me from a distance and they would move aside - I'm talking about people loitering on the trail. the strobe helped give them some time to MOVE OFF THE TRAIL

I came back from vacation to Asia last Jan. On the EVA flight I was on the crew made an announcement:
Because ONE passenger has a peanut allergy, NONE of the other passengers will be served nuts.
This was a full plane 777.


I'm a recovering alcoholic and smelling the RedHook brewery on my commute home might cause me to cruise on over and relapse with a pint or three; but I don't expect them to shut down on account of it.
You can't treat the world like a giant grade school and take away everyone's peanut butter just because one person is allergic.

I can't look at pictures like this without going berserk so I wish people would stop posting them!

The front light is more important to be seen as it helps you avoid right/left hooks and being hit from the side. From the rear they have more time to see you because your relative speed is less. They also have headlights on you from behind. This is why some juristictions require front lights, but not necessarily rear lights.

I agree that contacting the Epilepsy Society is best as IIRC only certain frequencies can trigger a seizure.

I came back from vacation to Asia last Jan. On the EVA flight I was on the crew made an announcement:
Because ONE passenger has a peanut allergy, NONE of the other passengers will be served nuts.
This was a full plane 777.

They should be required to announce the passenger by full name and seat number, so everyone can stop by and thank them for that jackass manouver.
I understand that peanut allergies can be fatal. Hell, I keep an epi-pen with me for bee stings for the same reason. However, to demand that an entire 777 jetliner bow to the whim of your poor genetics? Dang. How self-centered can you get?

Maybe I should demand my apartment managers cut down the flowering whatever-the-hell-it-is tree in front of my apartment so I don't get stung by one of the 12 hojillion bees flying around it while I walk my dog.

They should be required to announce the passenger by full name and seat number, so everyone can stop by and thank them for that jackass manouver.
I understand that peanut allergies can be fatal. Hell, I keep an epi-pen with me for bee stings for the same reason. However, to demand that an entire 777 jetliner bow to the whim of your poor genetics? Dang. How self-centered can you get?

Maybe I should demand my apartment managers cut down the flowering whatever-the-hell-it-is tree in front of my apartment so I don't get stung by one of the 12 hojillion bees flying around it while I walk my dog.

I don't like stobes, they trigger my 10000 yard stare and I become zombie like....not hypnotized, just completely detached.

and to avoid jackasses like that, I take my own peanuts. :)

1 more, how many 0's is hojillion? :D I think there are some plants in my complex that could rival that tree....

Maybe I should demand my apartment managers cut down the flowering whatever-the-hell-it-is tree in front of my apartment so I don't get stung by one of the 12 hojillion bees flying around it while I walk my dog.

I wouldn't be too quick to have them cut down the tree but I would notify them of the allergy. Then if you do get stung, you could consult a personal injury lawyer and finance a whole stable of new bikes. :lol:

I can't look at pictures like this without going berserk so I wish people would stop posting them!

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=141791&d=1247452452


Me Too! cwmdocmwocmwom3mc. GRRREfeppp!emcvpempvmevm3comcs3kncvjebuvmjbv!!!

Actually I only use the blinkers on the road. On the MUP, I don't unless it's night.

I can't look at pictures like this without going berserk so I wish people would stop posting them!I know! I can't believe that bike is missing pedals either...

I can't look at pictures like this without going berserk so I wish people would stop posting them!
141802


+1 :love:

What the rider told you is true. Most frequently the strobe could cause a Jacksonian seizure which is a Petit Mall seizure, but in some it could produce a Grande Mal seizure, the big one.

This is from the Epilepsy Canada website (http://epilepsy.ca/eng/mainSet.html):

"Photosensitive seizures:

Often, you may notice warnings on electronic devices, lighting equipment (such as strobe lights), or video games. They may having warnings that the product may induce photosensitive epileptic seizures.

Photosensitive seizures are rare, even for people with epilepsy (less than 5%). These are not a distinct type of seizure, rather the result of a light-related stimulus that may induce the triggering of a seizure. Photosensitive seizures are often classified under the heading of “reflex epilepsy.”

They usually occur around the ages 8-20 with a higher frequency of cases during puberty. They may be triggered by both natural and artificial light – oscillating or moving patterns.

To avoid unnecessary risks, it is advised for children and adults with photosensitive seizures to sit more than 2m away from the television. This is due to the frequency of the refresh rate of the television monitor. While the incidence of television-induced photosensitive seizures is lower in North America than in Europe (due to the differences in refresh rates), people with epilepsy should still remain cautious. Computer monitors present very little risk for inducing photosensitive seizures. There are two types of monitors, CRT (cathode-ray tube) and LCD (liquid crystal display). Most CRT monitors have refresh frequencies greater than 70Hz (70 flashes/second). LCD monitors do not have full-screen refreshing and may be better in some instance for photosensitive people. However, since most people use newer model monitors, the problem of inducing photosensitive seizures is more related to software than the monitors themselves. Computer games and other programs with flashing lights and varying patterns may trigger a seizure."

So I guess the short answer is, yes - strobe/flashing lights can cause epileptic seizures, but according to this source it happens in less than 5% of epileptics. The website also encourages sufferers to take the necessary precautions. If I run into this guy again I will ask him what he does when an emergency vehicle goes by with its strobes flashing. In the meantime I will try to remember to turn the light to steady mode when on the MUP and save my strobe for city streets. After all, my safety is paramount to me and my family.

It's not BS! I had the misfortune of going to an ambulance call for an unresponsive 10 year old.He had a history of seizures and Mom and Dad bougth him a Play Station or similar thing.With all the flashing graphics!!! I guess he didn't want to be the only kid without one. He had a seizure and died .

1 more, how many 0's is hojillion? :D I think there are some plants in my complex that could rival that tree....

There's only 1 zero in a hojillion, but it's specific that you pronounce it like "oh" and draw it out, not "zero". As in "Ooooooooooohhhhh crap that's a lotta bees, puppy. We gotta get!":eek:

I know! I can't believe that bike is missing pedals either...

At least it has a seat.

Shoot that thing straight in his eyes - wean him off of that notion. Get a bigger strobe.

Though - on a MUP I would hazard that the upside of the strobe mode would be diminished.

Seizure issues aside, I have seen cyclists coming towards me with bright flashing led lights, and in my opinion, it made it much harder to judge distance between myself and the other rider. Not a good thing on a multi use path going across a bridge that is just wide enough for two riders to pass each other. Granted, it was just past sunset, in the dusk hours, so I'm not sure if my reaction would have been the same during the day.

It's not BS! I had the misfortune of going to an ambulance call for an unresponsive 10 year old.He had a history of seizures and Mom and Dad bougth him a Play Station or similar thing.With all the flashing graphics!!! I guess he didn't want to be the only kid without one. He had a seizure and died .
Oh, I'm sure it has validity - I heard about this when I first learned what epilepsy was as a kid. I would hate to think my light caused someone to have a seizure, but at the same time it keeps me feeling safer. Many a motorist has commented on how much more readily they could see me with the strobe working.


Seizure issues aside, I have seen cyclists coming towards me with bright flashing led lights, and in my opinion, it made it much harder to judge distance between myself and the other rider. Not a good thing on a multi use path going across a bridge that is just wide enough for two riders to pass each other. Granted, it was just past sunset, in the dusk hours, so I'm not sure if my reaction would have been the same during the day.
I agree 100%. Like I said I was just using that MUP to connect between city streets. Normally I would not use the strobe setting while on a MUP.

I know! I can't believe that bike is missing pedals either...
You're obviously a very, very serious cyclist Greg!!:roflmao2:

Bill

Count me as being anti-strobist.

The strobe setting does three things, two of them bad.

1) Catches the attention of other people on the road. (Good.)
2) Makes it hard to judge your distance or direction. (Bad.)
3) Distracts the other people on the road, causing them to stop paying attention to what they're doing. (You go squish now.)

Police and other roadside emergency crew have this problem all the time, and it's a well studied phenomenon. The same brain mechanism that allows a flashing light to catch your attention often puts way too much of your attention into noticing the flashing light. So you stop looking ahead, or you fixate on the light and not notice the cyclist or (and ask any cop or tow-truck driver, they know it's true) steer toward the pretty blinky thing without realizing it. The cops get around this by setting up, essentially, a giant wall of flashing lights... which you can't do with your hub generator. Even then, it's debatable if it actually works. I know it's made rubber-necking much worse on the highways.
If I could set the strobe rate to once every other second - maybe a steady glow spiked by an intermittent flash, I'd be using that. As I can't, I set the light to steady.

A frequency of 10 to 12 flashes per second has the greatest effect on photosensitive epileptics.
At 5 fps of less there is almost no danger of triggering a seizure.
Since this problem became known most all strobe manufacturers set their flash rates to 5 or less.
Methinks your cyclist was overly worried.

... and yet the guy didn't go into seizure and was coherent speaking to the OP. the OP can probably just forget that guy and ride with the light the way he wants

The toughest cyclist I know is a person with epilepsy. We'd discussed photosensitivity a time or three. There are different triggers for a seizure depending on the individual. Photosensitivity - flashing lights - is a common trigger, but many people have epilepsy and are not photosensitive.

As for why the cyclist asked you to not use the flash, he might have been overreacting to it. But I'd cut him some slack. Having a seizure is such a horrible experience that many persons with epilepsy become upset over anything that might be a trigger. Unlike, say, being drunk, a seizure isn't avoidable by a change in behavior. Having a seizure means losing consciousness, running the risk of injury or death. Also there's the powerful social stigma - people with epilepsy are sometimes looked down on as mentally defective, a carryover from the days before the condition could be treated with drugs. And the mental fog that follows a grand mal is sometimes mistaken for drunkeness - more than one person with epilepsy has died in police custody.

BTW, why was this posted to Clydesdales?

BTW, why was this posted to Clydesdales?

There are a ton of non specific threads in other forums (eg. 50+) that don't have anything to do with the fact that it's a 50+ topic, such as wheels, century ride reports, chainstay length etc so why should this forum be any different?;)

yeah it could anywhere cuz it would pop up in the new posts search. but I think people get a comfort zone in a particular forum with some regular readers, etc. a sub-community if you will.

but it's fun (even risky) venturing out of your comfort zone and meeting new people in other forums. I find the roadies and mechanics a bit different than say the commuters and clydes.

watch out for the over 50s cuz they are one serious bunch! :-) (meaning: don't troll there and don't be a wise-a*s)

Well, then you could argue that *my* little thread doesn't belong here even though I am a *clyde*.

As many times I talk about topics that have nothing to do with cycling whatsoever. I tend to agree with the above poster. I only post in this forum, I do not even look at the others at all.

I can't look at pictures like this without going berserk so I wish people would stop posting them!


Tell me about it. What a terrible job they did routing those cables. They're going to get caught in scrub brush.

As previously mentioned, its not the strobe that most epileptics would find causing a seizure, but rather the appearance of a flash of light. Sudden or tight clenching of the eyelids in some epileptics can trigger an event. My son will seize with even a door slamming.

As far as the OP, the 80/20 rule should suffice. Your light is there for your safety.

On a lighter note, I've seen my son crash and burn off his bike dozens of times and never has it been because of a light issue. It was just time to have a seizure.

...BTW, why was this posted to Clydesdales?
I posted it here because it seems to me that the majority of people who respond to threads in Clydesdales & Athenas do so with a level of maturity and humility that seems sorely lacking on other forums. Not that any of us here aren't capable of sophomoric behavior (myself included); I'm not naive enough to think that. I just find that I have to sift through much less BS here to get to what I am seeking - information concerning my (and other's) cycling experience, whatever that entails.

Shoot that thing straight in his eyes - wean him off of that notion. Get a bigger strobe.

You first.

For the OP - why not turn off you lights during the day? Not sure what your riding routes or conditions are like in Ontario, but whenever I see bicyclists riding in daytime with lights on I'm thinking they've crossed the line between responsible safety measures and paranoia, or they're more concerned about everyone else seeing them rather than watching out for themselves. Where I live (Southern California) a headlight and/or taillight gets obliterated during the daytime hours all year round. If your really concerned about being seen, why not wear a bright high-visability shirt. That'll make sure everyone notices you, and solve the problem of ever having to deal with epileptics.

A frequency of 10 to 12 flashes per second has the greatest effect on photosensitive epileptics.
At 5 fps of less there is almost no danger of triggering a seizure.
Since this problem became known most all strobe manufacturers set their flash rates to 5 or less.
Methinks your cyclist was overly worried.

If you are using a magic-shine strobe - don't. That strobe thing is very bright, fast and gives me a headache. I don't even have epilepsy.

my favorite forum is "commuting"

"It is easier to buy a pair of slippers than to carpet the whole world."

Not to be too insensitve, but if your tralside acquaintance thinks hisalth is in danger because of certain lights, he should talk to (1)his doctor; (2the manufacturer, (3 the provincial legislature. Going from person to person asking that they refrain from using flashing lights seems like the last thing I would do.

I should add another (0) if you have epilepsy don't stare at strobe lights.

For the OP - why not turn off you lights during the day? Not sure what your riding routes or conditions are like in Ontario, but whenever I see bicyclists riding in daytime with lights on I'm thinking they've crossed the line between responsible safety measures and paranoia, or they're more concerned about everyone else seeing them rather than watching out for themselves. Where I live (Southern California) a headlight and/or taillight gets obliterated during the daytime hours all year round. If your really concerned about being seen, why not wear a bright high-visibility shirt. That'll make sure everyone notices you, and solve the problem of ever having to deal with epileptics.
Having lights on during the day just makes sense to me. It's the same principle as the daytime running lights on my car; they are there to make the car more visible to other drivers. They are also the law here in Ontario. To go even one step further - emergency vehicles use flashing lights, day or night. They don't rely on the bright paint and loud sirens; they make sure you notice them with the added visual display. As for wearing bright-colored clothing I'm all for it. That being said the majority of my riding is commuting to and from school; I have my street clothes on which is usually jeans and a t-shirt. I like to wear dark colors so as not to draw attention to my already considerable size. The relatively short route means I don't have to bring a change of clothes because I'm all sweaty. A trip to the bathroom to splash some cool water on my face is usually enough. If I go for a long ride the cycling-specific clothes come out and I'm all about the bright, in-your-face kind of colors. But I still run with my lights on (although I tend to turn them to steady rather than strobe setting on the MUPs and rely on my bell and loud voice to alert pedestrians of my approach.)

my favorite forum is "commuting"

That's my second favorite, but I find the people here are friendlier (for the most part.) Lots of good knowledge shared on the Commuting forum, for sure. Same could be said for most of them, I'm sure.

They should be required to announce the passenger by full name and seat number, so everyone can stop by and thank them for that jackass manouver.
I understand that peanut allergies can be fatal. Hell, I keep an epi-pen with me for bee stings for the same reason. However, to demand that an entire 777 jetliner bow to the whim of your poor genetics? Dang. How self-centered can you get?

Maybe I should demand my apartment managers cut down the flowering whatever-the-hell-it-is tree in front of my apartment so I don't get stung by one of the 12 hojillion bees flying around it while I walk my dog.
Actually it's not at all self-centered. Quite a few people are so sensitive to certain allergens (peanuts being the most common) that even the smell can trigger a life-threatening reaction. This may be the only way the person can even get onto a plane. I know of one woman who rarely leaves the house because the inhaling even a trace of wheat makes her so ill. I myself react to traces of yeast and sesame in the air; I can't enter a Chinese restaurant or stand in the bread aisle at a store. Fortunately I only experience asthma, and not anaphylaxis, so I have time to get away if I'm accidentally exposed.

What would you have someone with a life-threatening allergy to peanuts do when they need to fly somewhere?

What would you have someone with a life-threatening allergy to peanuts do when they need to fly somewhere?

I'd fly as little as possible, in the first place, and probably ask for the airline do this very thing. I'd try to arrange in advance for the airline to have some other complimentary snack for the other passengers.

What would you have someone with a life-threatening allergy to peanuts do when they need to fly somewhere?

No one needs to fly anywhere.

No one needs to fly anywhere.

Except professional pilots, stewards/stewardesses, and birds.

Except professional pilots, stewards/stewardesses, and birds.

If a bird is allergiic to peanuts it should be made to walk. No way am I giving up my PB&J for a bird!

Suppose your elderly mother, who lives on the other side of the country, or maybe overseas, is suddenly hospitalized with a severe injury or illness. Wouldn't you say you'd have a need to fly, to be with her?

Suppose your boss asks you attend an important business meeting 2500 miles away. Wouldn't you say that constitutes a need to fly?

Questions of need aside, do you really think it's ok to deny air travel to someone whose needs can be easily met by a trivial inconvenience to their fellow passengers? (The last couple of times I've flown, peanuts weren't served on the plane anyhow; there were pretzel nubbins instead.)

If the strobe function on my lights can cause seizures in epileptics then why didn't they come with a warning?

I'm not sure that putting warnings on epileptics would be practical.