Tandem Cycling - Will a tandem be a disaster for us?

Picture a cycle-fanatic (me) and her bike-ambivalent husband. Can we make a tandem work for us? Or is it a recipe for disaster? Here's where we're at:

Me:
-basically hugely bike-obsessed... I zoom around at top speed, I race, tour, I'm car-free, and cover about 10000 miles a year. However, I also love sharing the joys of cycling with less ambitious cyclists, so I do have it in me to be patient.

My husband:
-will use clipless on the trainer, not in traffic
-has fantastic balance
-has decent cadence (I'd estimate 70-80, mine is about 95)
-needs to develop his fitness (I'm a lot faster than he is, and I'm often happily chatting away at what feels like a low effort until I realize he's he's panting and feeling the burn)
-needs to become more comfortable with bike speeds over 30 km/h (he worries he'll crash). Oh, the good hills and tailwinds he has missed!
-is good about biking in traffic
-likes to coast. I only like to coast if I'm spun out on a good hill.
-is interested in becoming more fit, and is usually easily convinced to do short errands by bike
-thinks 5 miles (round trip) is a long bike ride, but has been motivated enough to go as far as 20 miles non-stop.
-will only wear bike shorts if he wears cargo shorts over top. :lol:


I've been thinking about a tandem for a long time, since it would let us travel closer to the speeds and distances I like, while allowing the level of effort (for him) that he likes, thus expanding our cycling world. I assume it's also easier to have a conversation on a tandem? We're about the same height, and I'm very strong, so I don't mind being the captain. I would forsee using it to extend the range of the bike errands we run (visiting friends up to 10 miles away, for example) and for occasional leisure rides. He's not interested enough in cycling (yet?) that it would be used for club rides or touring.

Would a tandem work for us, or would it be better to hold off until our skills are a little more closely aligned? Is a tandem (with clipless pedals) practical in stop-go situations if the stoker is still learning how to use clipless?

Only one way to know for sure....

Seriously, that's the truth. From what you describe, there are definitely some issues to be resolve, not the least of which is who captains. From what you describe, you'd be bit of a back-seat driver and that's never good. Would your husband be willing to stoke? I actually think it's pretty cool when we happen upon a non-conventional tandem team where the gal's driving... in fact, we had just such a couple on our ride this past Sunday. They were awesome and we all had a grand time.

So, if you can find a tandem that you can borrow (thankfully, if you're the same size you can try it both ways), you'll know in about two days if there's a tandem in your future. However, you definitely want to give it a try on two separate days, both ways on each day. The first day is all about learning and getting some level of experience and comfort on the bike. The second day will actuallly let you figure out what's working and what's not.

I'd TOTALLY be a back seat driver :lol:

No question that I'd want to be the captain at this point, but he's getting better with every ride. Good coaching, of course. ;) I'd trust him enough to let him drive if he wanted to, though. I guess the question there is whether he feels better to be in control and to know when a bump, shift, turn, or brake is upcoming, or whether he feels better if all he has to do is trust me to call them and just go for the ride.

It wouldn't have occurred to me that maybe he'd prefer to drive, but that's a good thought to try both ways. As you say, we won't know 'til we try. Just wondering if there's hope... it sounds like there might be?

Unfortunately, I don't have any friends with a tandem, and I don't think any of the LBSs rent them out (we aren't exactly a big tourism center). If I rented one someday, I'm hoping my impression of tandeming won't be coloured by the quality of the rental (I'm assuming it will be fairly low-end and set up for casual riders on vacation).

I was in the exact reverse position several years ago,...probably like most of the tandem teams here.
We tried a basic beach cruiser while on vacation. I thought that was a perfect introduction. Ya go slow,
and you don't go very far. You stop to have ice cream but still, you are on the tandem together and
you have to deal with the communication issues at the core of tandeming. Sounds like you guys have
a pretty good relationship, so I'd guess you'd both enjoy it.

Good Luck
Rich

Picture a cycle-fanatic (me) and her bike-ambivalent husband.

For many on this list, that'll require some work. If I had a dollar for each time someone has described the reverse situation, I could get a new wheel-set.


Can we make a tandem work for us? Or is it a recipe for disaster? Here's where we're at:

I've been thinking about a tandem for a long time, since it would let us travel closer to the speeds and distances I like, while allowing the level of effort (for him) that he likes, thus expanding our cycling world. I assume it's also easier to have a conversation on a tandem?

Absolutely. Only in heavy traffic is it a problem, and it would be impossible on a pair of singles.


We're about the same height, and I'm very strong, so I don't mind being the captain.

As far as I can tell there are two reasons why captains are usually the male of the team.

1) the male is so much larger that the bike can't be made to fit the other way around (hard to mount the stoker stem above the captain's saddle...). Also, it can be hard to hold the bike up while a much heavier partner gets into position, but that's a matter of strength and experience - it can be, and is done!
2) ego, or control issues, on the part of the guy.

Outside of that the primary considerations of who captains - like in your case - would be if one partner has significantly more experience and skill at bike handling (esp. in traffic), or if one is substantially stronger (in the legs) than the other. If they are equal in size and skill, the stronger rider can stoke, and produce a slightly more efficient power transfer to the drive train. Or so they say - I've not analysed it to death. The stoker needs to be able to trust the captain. If he is more likely to trust you than you him, then you are better off as captain. And people who know about the stronger of two similar sized riders taking the back will just assume he's stronger. Nobody need be the wiser :)


Would a tandem work for us, or would it be better to hold off until our skills are a little more closely aligned? Is a tandem (with clipless pedals) practical in stop-go situations if the stoker is still learning how to use clipless?
The majority of stokers clip in while the captain holds the bike, and remains clipped in until the end of the ride, never putting a foot down at a stop. Clipless pedals are (nearly) a non-issue for the stoker if you use that approach.

Thanks for the great advice! I was hoping to hear that the stoker doesn't usually have to unclip. This could actually be a nice way for my husband to practice using clipless in the real world. I was also thinking that the stoker might have it a little easier in terms of being able to stretch and look around... not that we're doing any epic journeys, but I imagine his neck, hands, and shoulders are just as unaccustomed to bikes as his legs.

"And people who know about the stronger of two similar sized riders taking the back will just assume he's stronger" I'll let him know that! He doesn't have any ego issues about letting me drive, though, and I'm sure he'll just say he prefers the view if anyone asks!

You stop to have ice cream but still, you are on the tandem together and
you have to deal with the communication issues at the core of tandeming.

A plan is beginning to take shape in my head. My family lives in tourist-dense Ottawa, so the next time we visit, I'm going to propose a tandem rental. We'll cruise the ample, beautiful MUPs along the river, and tour the market, stopping for a rest at a patio bar. Yes, this could work out nicely. He'll be having fun before he even knows what's happened ;)

Unfortunately, I don't have any friends with a tandem, and I don't think any of the LBSs rent them out (we aren't exactly a big tourism center).

So, people aren't beating a path to the Diefenbaker Centre? And I guess the Canadian Orienteering Championships a couple of years ago didn't put the UofS campus on the map...


If I rented one someday, I'm hoping my impression of tandeming won't be coloured by the quality of the rental (I'm assuming it will be fairly low-end and set up for casual riders on vacation).

Interestingly, I have seen some pretty decent rental tandems. There is a place in Ottawa that has two different models, one that ought to be good enough for the purposes you have in mind (actually some would say either would be). Last time I was in Banff and Lake Louise the folks renting tandems there had "real" bikes. I guess anyone not sufficiently hard core to insist on such a bike probably doesn't really want to be riding there anyhow. :lol:

Our first tandem experience was riding from Lake Louise to Jasper on a rental. Amazingly, it worked for us, but I can't say I'd recommend it.

I don't know that you need two days worth. The MOST important question is how is your relationship, and do you communicate well? They say a tandem will take your relationship where its going twice as fast.

A plan is beginning to take shape in my head. My family lives in tourist-dense Ottawa, so the next time we visit, I'm going to propose a tandem rental. We'll cruise the ample, beautiful MUPs along the river, and tour the market, stopping for a rest at a patio bar. Yes, this could work out nicely. He'll be having fun before he even knows what's happened ;)
With that additional information, RentABike.ca in Ottawa has/had a Burley Rivazza for rent/sale. Presumably for rent until sold. Failing that they definitely have a couple of KHS Alite's in two different sizes. Given the kind of riding you have in mind, there are many who would recommend the KHS as a good choice - it's an entry level bike, but not department-store grade. Given your description of yourself, you may find it hard not to ride something further up-scale.

Picture a cycle-fanatic (me) and her bike-ambivalent husband. Can we make a tandem work for us? Or is it a recipe for disaster?

Depends.

I've heard it said that, whichever way your relationship is headed, a tandem will get you there quicker.

I'm car-free, and cover about 10000 miles a year.

Good grief; you're only out from under snow for what, 1/2 the year at best and even then isn't it pretty darn cold for another 2 - 4 of those months when it's not iced over????

It may come as some surprise, but Saskatoon, unlike Atlanta, has this innovation called "snow removal". And what's more, it's pretty dry in those parts, being shadowed by the rockies. So while they are further north than we in upstate NY, the average snowfall is less than half of ours (our quantity in inches is almost as high as theirs in cm). It's cold, 'but it's a dry cold'. I don't know I could ride in 'a dry' -40, but perhaps with enough clothing...

I'll admit that I'm not car-free, but I'm seriously considering getting a 'winter bike' so I won't be limited to dry roads. For the cost of keeping one of our cars on the road for just one year, I could get a pretty nice bike.

It's cold, 'but it's a dry cold'. I don't know I could ride in 'a dry' -40, but perhaps with enough clothing...

That's really what I was poking on...

There are some ADV Rider, BMWMOA and BMWST forum members who live up that way and talk about the length of their motorcycle riding season and "challenges" with the cold weather. Stuff simply freezes when the air is that cold.

From YouTube: A man throws boiling water into the air in Saskatchewan during a typical mid-winter, -40c day.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFj_i6HtebM

Yeah, there's a bit of 'trick' to it, i.e., you must use boiling water: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba_effect

Bet there are not a bunch of tandems in all of Saskatchewan?!
Rent one locally (if that'spossible) or wait till you visit Ottawa.
The only very dedicated Canadian tandemists we've met (way back in the late 70s) were David and Brenda Vandevelde (who are still riding and sell tandems) in Mississsauga, ON.
vandervelde@sypatico.ca (905)824-9364.
You've got the right spirit. . . go for it!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Given your "passion" for riding, I think a tandem will be big compromise for you, so I wouldn't expect it to be more than a opportunity for spending time together and not a replacement for your time on a single. With that said you definitely need to try a tandem for a day or two to see if it will work, otherwise you may end up with a low mileage tandem hanging in the garage.

Given your "passion" for riding, I think a tandem will be big compromise for you, so I wouldn't expect it to be more than a opportunity for spending time together and not a replacement for your time on a single. With that said you definitely need to try a tandem for a day or two to see if it will work, otherwise you may end up with a low mileage tandem hanging in the garage.

On the other hand, it's hard for two people who have different physical abilities to ride together on single bikes - one tends to feel like they're not doing anything and the other feels like they're chasing all day. A tandem equals that out.

I was semi-serious when I made the comment about which way your relationship is headed. If your primary goal is to spend some quailty time together, a tandem can be a love machine. If you focus on your partner's differences, a tandem will provide a new resentment to build on.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet .... do be aware that a tandem exists that ALLOWS him to coast while you continue pedaling. See daVinci tandems. (http://www.davincitandems.com/)

Good luck with it all!

+1 to Zonatandem, again. Check out the Vandevelde's website. MBS Tandems. We've been dealing with this couple since we bought our tandem from them 7 years ago. Brenda stokes when she rides with her husband, but I've seen her captain when she rides with her grown family. If you can link up with Brenda on the phone, you will have a wonderful, informative conversation. They also have tandems, a good variety, to "test-ride". Mike

Then again, Ottawa to MBS is a good five hours drive. Could be six if you cross Toronto at the wrong time. Kinda like Tucson to Palm Springs, only passing through Toronto is not in the same league as passing through Phoenix. And if you're used to Saskatoon, just the Toronto part will feel like 3 hours, even if you're lucky enough to get across in 1 1/2 to 2.

I'm assuming you fly to Ottawa. If you're driving, via North Bay, the detour is maybe 8 hours, rather than 10-12. If you'd normally go south of Lake Superior, no detour to speak of.

I'd TOTALLY be a back seat driver :lol:

No question that I'd want to be the captain at this point, but he's getting better with every ride. Good coaching, of course. ;) I'd trust him enough to let him drive if he wanted to, though. I guess the question there is whether he feels better to be in control and to know when a bump, shift, turn, or brake is upcoming, or whether he feels better if all he has to do is trust me to call them and just go for the ride.

It wouldn't have occurred to me that maybe he'd prefer to drive, but that's a good thought to try both ways. As you say, we won't know 'til we try. Just wondering if there's hope... it sounds like there might be?

Unfortunately, I don't have any friends with a tandem, and I don't think any of the LBSs rent them out (we aren't exactly a big tourism center). If I rented one someday, I'm hoping my impression of tandeming won't be coloured by the quality of the rental (I'm assuming it will be fairly low-end and set up for casual riders on vacation).

If he lets you drive him around in a car he more than likely would let you Captain, everyone has given you great advice, hope it works out for you.

No question that I'd want to be the captain at this point,

What are your respective weights? IMHO, there's a substantial case for the heavier rider to be up front, particularly if that rider has more upper body strength.

In our case I'm over 200lbs, and my wife is around 130. We work pretty well as a team, but on those occassions where we're not both on the same page, and tuned in to the exigencies of the moment, I, as Captain can make the bike go where it needs to by shear force.

Conversely when we've tried it with her in front, any lack of coordination is a much bigger problem, because she cannot overpower me.

If you're both around the same size and upper body strength, the more experienced cyclist should be in front. But if there's a big weight upper body strength descrepency, a less experienced, but heavier stoker in the back may not work so well.

Have ridden with many stokers and the biggest guy I had ever stoke for me was well over 250 lbs with me as captain at a full 135 lbs.
As long as he did not attempt to do the hula back there, we were fine!
However, my stoker Kay, at 112 lbs, can make the tandem veer in the direction she wants to go . . .
Riding in tandem is a question of proper communication and cooperation.
Peda lon!
Rudy/zonatandem

Thanks for all the great advice. I'm picturing a tandem as a replacement for the family car on some local trips... a chance to go somewhere together using my favourite mode of transportation, but without my husband working harder than he wants to. I'm so accustomed to towing my trailer on a bike with studded tires that we could even install some footrests for him, and I honestly wouldn't care... bike=happy. If I'm lucky, recreational cycling might even catch on with him, and he'll join me once in a while for those rides, too. The ?good? news is that I slightly outweigh him, so me as captain shouldn't be a problem, weight-wise (he's one of those guys who eats nothing but fast food and has about 5% body fat :rolleyes:).

Yes, it's a dry cold... we only had one major snowfall this winter, and probably not much more than a foot of snow in total all winter. I was able to do recreational trail rides into January, and it's been an early spring, so I'm off to do my first group road ride of the season in a few hours! So, that's about 8 weeks without a recreational ride, just long enough to get excited to start up again! Cold is a lot easier to deal with than wet, I think.

I hope it's OK if I kind of side track this thread. I'm in a similar situation, except I'm the husband. I love to ride and I ride about 20 miles several times/week. My wife has a nice Cannondale but only rides about once every 2-3 months. She did ride the 72-mile ride around Lake Tahoe a few years ago so she's not a novice, but as you can guess our fitness level is not the same. So I'm exploring the idea of a tandem.

We borrowed a tandem from friends years ago and nearly got a divorce in the first 10 minutes. I felt every wiggle she did and didn't know how to interpret it and she was scared not to be in control (I was being careful, I promise). So my question is - what advice can anyone offer to get over these problems. Are there standard communications that need to take place between the captain and the stoker, such as 'turning left', 'braking', etc? It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the stoker doesn''t unclip when stopping - that's a great tidbit that I wouldn't have guessed. Any other such suggestions?

Thanks,
Bob

Sounds like you are like my wife and I except reversed in your relative abilities. We chose a da Vinci with independent coasting and it works great for us. I do 2/3 of the work and she coasts a lot. Fine by me, as we'd never be able to ride together any other way. She also has the reversable SPD pedals so that clipping in is optional.

We borrowed a tandem from friends years ago and nearly got a divorce in the first 10 minutes. I felt every wiggle she did and didn't know how to interpret it and she was scared not to be in control (I was being careful, I promise).


Not every couple can ride a tandem. Communication, and trust is key, but even those two factors aren't enough, size, ability, ridding style, etc all add to the mix. Throw in the complexities of a marriage relationship and not surprisingly the tandem gets nicknamed the "divorce bike". Tandemeering requires compromise and both riders need to be comfortable with what they are giving up from the cycling experience.

We borrowed a tandem from friends years ago and nearly got a divorce in the first 10 minutes. I felt every wiggle she did and didn't know how to interpret it and she was scared not to be in control (I was being careful, I promise). So my question is - what advice can anyone offer to get over these problems. Are there standard communications that need to take place between the captain and the stoker, such as 'turning left', 'braking', etc? It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the stoker doesn''t unclip when stopping - that's a great tidbit that I wouldn't have guessed. Any other such suggestions?


A few suggestions - 1) low traffic street/roads - preferably no traffic. 2) communicate everything (call out bumps, stops, turns, lane change, ..) - no surprises since she is putting her life in your hands. 3) she should tell you if she is going to do something major. 4) give her a mirror and ask her to tell you what traffic is coming from behind.

She should be wiggle a bit. As long as the tandem doesn't veer, ignore it. If you know someone who has a tandem and is experienced, try riding with them. Ride both as stoker and captain to get an appreciation of what is suppose to happen.

Lastly, trust is a 2 way street.

Spencer

Bob,
I wouldn't let your one tandem experience dissuade you from considering a tandem. Since my wife and I have only ridden a tandem for 10 months after not riding for 10 years I won't claim to provide advice, but I can relate our experience. We starting riding again after 20 years in August of 2008. Bought the tandem in May 2009. During our three test rides I could feel most of what my wife was doing and more importantly I couldn't not conceive of steering the tandem in a straight line. We bought a tandem despite the "wobbles" and I can tell you that when I get back on my single it's got the wobbles; the tandem rides on rails. The stoker needs to keep her (female gender assumed for convenience) body quiet and should let the captain know if she is getting water and such, but as far as just going down the road: I had my 200 lb cyclist son on the back and couldn't even tell what phase he was in (we have a daVinci) he was so smooth and he's much bigger and stronger than my wife. You may also have been riding a tandem with a particularly whippy frame which would exacerbate things happening in the back.

I do think it's important to get some basic instruction, even 15 minutes worth makes a big difference. Verbal communication is a big aid to harmonious tandeming. The most important word in your vocabulary will become "bump", but turning, traffic alerts, starting, etc. all benefit from a pre-defined vocabulary. Since my high frequency hearing is non-existent my wife and I use an intercom on our tandem, but this is absolutely not necessary in most situations.

This link offers some advice to prospective riders: http://www.thetandemlink.com/tandems.html.

IMHO, a large part of riding a tandem successfully is that the bike has to be set up very similarly to the captain's and stoker's singles. A very different setup will give you the wrong feedback as you make control decisions. A borrowed bike that doesn't fit may not work for you.

Also, the beginner captain needs to realize that at first the bike will go in the average direction it is pointed, not the precise direction. Don't over-control or over-steer the bike. Just point the front wheel ahead and pedal. The faster you go, the easier it gets.

As others have pointed out, the stoker needs to just sit there and not react to the movement of the bike, even though it may be a bit frightening for the first few 100'. With experience, the captain can control the bike no matter what the stoker does, but at first it will feel like stoker is in control, not the captain.

hshearer:
David and Brenda Vadevelde are hosting the Canadian Tandem Rally in Ottawa June 4 - 7, 2010.
If you can contact them and get to Ottawa at that time it would be an opportunity to see/talk tandems with quite a few folks!
Just an idea . . .

BobKendallGB:
Communication is key to tandem riding.
Getting started:
Pilot mounts tandem first. He straddles the top tube and puts both feet FLAT on the ground (not sitting on the saddle) and he holds both brakes. Stoker gets seated on the saddle and clips in. Captain clips in one foot (left or right).
Captain voices "3-2-1" and both riders push off and start to pedal. After you gain momentum captain says 'coast' and clips in his other foot.
When he is clipped in, he voices: "pedal."
Some voice commands the captain uses to inform stoker on what he's is about to do:
Coast: cease pedaling.
Pedal: resume pedaling
Shifting: indicates impending gear change. Can also use "shifting up" or "shifting down" or "shifting front" or "rear" to define things even more.
Braking: indicates you'll stop pedaling and apply brake(s).
Bump/rough road: when you will hit bump or rough road; remember stoker can't read your mind or see what's up front.
Stopping: will be stopping the tandem. At a traffic light/stop sign the stoker can stay seated and clipped in.
Dismount: tandem has stopped, captain puts feet flat on the ground and holds both brakes and stoker dismounts. When she is off the bike she walks away from it and says "off;" only then does the captain dismount; this avoids the stoker getting an unintended karate kick.
Stoker indicates all hand signals upon captains request: Left or right turn/slowing/stopping.
You can make up/eliminate commands as you see fit.
Stoker can also be the navigator using a GPS or just a map pinned to the the back of the captain's jersey. She can also feed the captain with food tucked in her/his jersey pockets or hand an extra water bottle if needed.
Proper communication will enhance your tandem experience!
Enjoy the ride TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Thank you all for your comments and advice. My wife and I did ride about 20 miles this weekend on a 'beach cruiser' type tandem that we borrowed from some friends. Things went well. Reading your advice and other articles on tandems really helped. I rode the bike by myself at first so I could learn how it felt. I also now understood in-phase and out-of-phase on the pedals. The chain kept coming off so the pedal phase changed each time we put it back on (we tried to keep them in phase, but just couldn't do it). But at least I now understood why the bike wiggled when she pedaled.

If we get serious then we'll be looking for a road-bike type bike rather than a cruiser.

Thanks again,
Bob

And one with the timing chain tension adjusted right...:)

My experience is that a tandem can be the missing link to join two different cyclists in one single ride.

It works! But...

As other said, communication is key, as is respect.

By that I mean that, if riding the same bike allows to match tow different effort levels, you still have to compromise on goals and riding style. Even if a member of the team can put in less effort, a hilly ride will still feel like a hilly ride, a fast ride like fast ride, a long ride as long ride, etc.
Sharing the bike allows for a quantitative combination of effort (watts); qualitative discrepancies will still be an issue.

Also, given that the pilot is the more accomplished cyclist, the team's riding style (effort, handling the bike, etc.) will evolve no faster than the stoker's ease to go along with the pilot's agility/temerity/effort type/pedal stroke/cadence.

Communication: with time, some sort of symbiosis develops between the captain and the stoker, until then, the captain should announce his every moves to the stoker. Gear changes, stops, coasting, resume pedalling, sharp turns, etc. Eventually, the stoker will feel most of this through his pedals and so much talking won't be necessary. The captain should also call major bumps and the like since the stoker can't see ahead.

There is no way to guarantee you love tandem riding but there are ways to avoid it being a bad experience.

good luck!