Advocacy & Safety - Morons on the road

Earlier today when I was out riding I encountered a salmon, who besides riding the wrong way was also looking down at the ground instead of looking forward. I politely said to him "please ride on the right side of the road." His response was "go to hell" and "shut the f*(# up."

With the way he was riding he's lucky that I was paying attention to where we were going otherwise we might have collided. As I held my line and the fool did not veer off I had to swerve around him. Fortunately this happened on a side/residential street with little to no traffic. And other then the fact that I didn't want to get injured or damage my bike or my cargo I had half a mind not to veer off and collide with the fool.

I wonder how long it'll be before he becomes a statistic.

...I had half a mind not to veer off and collide with the fool.

I wonder how long it'll be before he becomes a statistic.

Or you, if your other half a mind wins the argument.

So you guys played chicken and the other guy won!:lol:

So you guys played chicken and the other guy won!:lol:

Don't think so, given that he wasn't even watching where he was riding. His eyes were looking down not forward. I don't think that he even knew that I was there until I said anything.

Clothesline comes to mind. But seriously, I'd use my 12v auto horn that's mounted on my bike. I like to think about doing stuff, but I very rarely do it.

I was once riding, came to a red light and was stopped, waiting for a green Evening. In the mean time, there was a ninja salmon (black hoodie, no lights, riding wrong way) coming at me, blowing through the red light, when the left turn arrow for traffic on my street turned green. A car started to make his left, and was going to nail this kid - I yelled to the car driver 'Watch the kid' and pointed at the cyclist - car braked, missing the cyclist, who says to me as he passes 'mind your own f***ing business'. In retrospect, I have to admit that I should have taken his advice.

Can we have a "Post your run of the mill idiot encounter" sticky, and a contest for best and worst told story?

-Kurt

Can we have a "Post your run of the mill idiot encounter" sticky, and a contest for best and worst told story?

-Kurt

You have my vote even though threads like this would likely still appear.

I got cut off last summer by a cyclist running a 4-way stop. Admittedly, I only Cali-stopped at the sign, but he just blew through without a pause. Plus, he apparently underestimated how fast I would move off the line so he moved left to go around the front of me instead of slowing down and passing behind me. I had to brake to a full stop halfway through the intersection as the dingus passed by me, fully over the center line and in his own oncoming lane.

I didn't say anything, but all I could think was, "Dude, same team! WTF?!"

But there aren't any "teams", just a bunch of individuals jerks competing for the same patch of concrete.

With the way he was riding he's lucky that I was paying attention to where we were going otherwise we might have collided..
That was not luck.

Merge left and pass, get on with life...

OP: AirZound FTW. The guy may need a change of pants afterwards.

OP: AirZound FTW. The guy may need a change of pants afterwards.

IJM,

I'd love to have an AirZound or a regular air horn, but I've got no place on my handlebars left to attach one. At least no room larger then for say a small push button wired to a 102dB piezo element/siren that is mounted on my front pannier rack.

How come I can never encounter a bike salmon when I'm on my beater bike?

How come I can never encounter a bike salmon when I'm on my beater bike?
Theory: A fancy bike is required for morally superior cyclists to properly observe other bicyclists' behavior and/or make gratuitous disparaging comments and posts about the lowlifes' lack of conformity to the "approved" bicycling techniques.

Theory: A fancy bike is required for morally superior cyclists to properly observe other bicyclists' behavior and/or make gratuitous disparaging comments and posts about the lowlifes' lack of conformity to the "approved" bicycling techniques.

Theory, and proponent thereof: miserable fail.

the idea that riding the wrong way is bad is now only a matter of opinion.

I got cut off last summer by a cyclist running a 4-way stop. Admittedly, I only Cali-stopped at the sign, but he just blew through without a pause. Plus, he apparently underestimated how fast I would move off the line so he moved left to go around the front of me instead of slowing down and passing behind me. I had to brake to a full stop halfway through the intersection as the dingus passed by me, fully over the center line and in his own oncoming lane.

I didn't say anything, but all I could think was, "Dude, same team! WTF?!"

But there aren't any "teams", just a bunch of individuals jerks competing for the same patch of concrete.So, your breaking the law was more legal than his?:eek:

everybody comes out this time of year. there will be a culling of he herd. grim but true. the righteous will survive.

good grief, can't believe I just wrote this hahaha

Theory: A fancy bike is required for morally superior cyclists to properly observe other bicyclists' behavior and/or make gratuitous disparaging comments and posts about the lowlifes' lack of conformity to the "approved" bicycling techniques.

*headshake*

So, your breaking the law was more legal than his?:eek:

No, my law-breaking was less reckless. I slowed to an almost stop (actually, I guess this is an Idaho stop when you're on a bike), visually cleared the intersection, then went. He didn't even slow, just blew on through. I didn't see him from behind the stop sign because he was riding fast in the door zone along a parking lane full of trucks, and I guess it's probable that he didn't see me until I saw him. And I didn't see him until I was in the intersection, out of the saddle and pumping back up to speed.

I submit that he was the moron in our near collision. Same as how I used to be the moron when I used to ride like he did.

*headshake*

C'mon, this is ILTB. Just smile, and get out the popcorn if you like to watch a show.

No, my law-breaking was less reckless. That is good to know.

Moral of the story: You are entitled to be self-righteous as long as your law-breaking is less reckless.

Daylight saving time has kicked in, warmer weather, peds and cyclists abound. Locally, it looks like the quiet days of winter have ended, and motorists won't be the only thing for me to keep an eye out for.

If given enough time, I usually just treat salmon riders the same as parked car, or obstacle in the road.

That is good to know.

Moral of the story: You are entitled to be self-righteous as long as your law-breaking is less reckless.

Dude, I almost collided with someone who ran a stop sign! I can't be annoyed at this? Are you seriously calling me out for doing a rolling stop at a four-way on a bicycle?

Has anybody noticed they're not just on the road? I think we have a big problem.

That is good to know.

Moral of the story: You are entitled to be self-righteous as long as your law-breaking is less reckless.

Idaho has had the stop-as-yield law for 20 years and it has been a success.
Prior to the 1970's, right-turn-on-red was illegal, even though it had been common in the Western states.
Would you argue that right-turn-on-red is reckless?

Idaho has had the stop-as-yield law for 20 years and it has been a success.
And the indications were that it improved cyclist safety. But for other states, why do some cyclist whine about those running stop signs when they ran their stop sign as well?



Prior to the 1970's, right-turn-on-red was illegal, even though it had been common in the Western states.
Would you argue that right-turn-on-red is reckless? Right-turn-on-red is very reckless as practiced by many (likely most) motorist. My closest calls each week are as a pedestrian when motorist refuse to yield (and do not even look) before making that Right-turn-on-red. Several people in Hawaii and I suspect most states have been killed or seriously injured by Right-turn-on-red motorist. If that law were removed tonight, it would be a great safety improvement.

On this point, others here on BFs, agree with me.
As well as other peds.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/18/AR2008111804001.html

*headshake*
HeadBobbler: You asked the question about your on again/off again observational powers about so-called "salmon"? Do you have a better theory to explain it?

But for other states, why do some cyclist whine about those running stop signs when they ran their stop sign as well?

I don't think that anyone who isn't a moron is going to equate a rolling stop with running a stop sign. I'm sorry if I detracted from a thread about roadway jackassery by posting an anecdote about roadway jackassery, or by "whining", if you must. :rolleyes:

electrik is right, morons aren't just on the road.

I don't think that anyone who isn't a moron is going to equate a rolling stop with running a stop sign.

I see that you took the extra effort to pre-insult anyone who disagrees with you, but I will continue anyway as if this were an civil conversation.

In states that don't allow for rolling stops, the speed at which the law is broken has little relevance to the LEO's ticketing ability for that offense. If indeed rolling stops are legal in your jurisdiction, then it sounds as if you were properly observing a rolling stop while the other driver didn't slow down for the stop sign. If you are not in a jurisdiction that allows rolling stops, then this incident serves to reinforce why a complete stop is required if your area.

In either case, you were able to ascertain that it was not safe to proceed through the intersection. This is a smart move at every intersection, regardless of the signaling or signs at that intersection, especially when traveling by means of transportation that leave your more vulnerable to the other vehicles on the road.

I see that you took the extra effort to pre-insult anyone who disagrees with you, but I will continue anyway as if this were an civil conversation.

Alright, my bad. I shouldn't have said "anyone" when really it was directed at one specific poster who implied that it was hypocritical for me to grouse about almost being t-boned by another cyclist running a 4-way stop at full speed because I only came to a rolling stop, not a complete, and yes, legal stop.


In states that don't allow for rolling stops, the speed at which the law is broken has little relevance to the LEO's ticketing ability for that offense. If indeed rolling stops are legal in your jurisdiction, then it sounds as if you were properly observing a rolling stop while the other driver didn't slow down for the stop sign. If you are not in a jurisdiction that allows rolling stops, then this incident serves to reinforce why a complete stop is required if your area.

I'm less concerned with the ability of a cop to ticket me than with the likelihood of being ticketed. You won't get a ticket in Anchorage for doing a rolling stop at a stop sign. Cops don't enforce full stops for cars, much less bikes. Hell, they hardly enforce any traffic laws for bikes. Since a rolling stop on a bicycle is just as safe as a full stop, and I'm in no danger of getting ticketed, I feel justified in observing just the intent of the law (clearing the right of way before proceeding through a stop sign). When I'm driving in heavy traffic, I drive the speed of traffic, not the posted limit. I do this because it's safer than going 5-10 mph slower than everyone else, and I will never be ticketed for it.

This incident is entirely the fault of the other cyclist. If I had come to a complete stop and then proceeded I still wouldn't have seen him coming, I wouldn't have predicted that another bike was about to blow through the intersection at full speed, and he still would've almost hit me. All that this incident reinforced for me is that running stop signs is reckless, which I already knew. And because I knew this, I came to a rolling stop before proceeding through the intersection.


In either case, you were able to ascertain that it was not safe to proceed through the intersection. This is a smart move at every intersection, regardless of the signaling or signs at that intersection, especially when traveling by means of transportation that leave your more vulnerable to the other vehicles on the road.

Yeah, I did this. I always do this. Honestly, safety trumps legality in dictating how I ride. If I had seen the intersection runner coming, I would've yielded right of way sooner, even if I had the legal right of way. I don't think that we actually disagree on this.

I don't think that we actually disagree on this.

We really don't disagree on anything. I personally try to always obey all traffic laws, regardless of my vehicle. But I agree that someone almost hitting you while completely disregarding a stop sign is completely different than a rolling stop. In order to keep from appear hypocritical, the focus should have been directed to safe riding practice, away from strict legal interpretation. That's a hard one though.

Alright, my bad. I shouldn't have said "anyone" when really it was directed at one specific poster who implied that it was hypocritical for me to grouse about almost being t-boned by another cyclist running a 4-way stop at full speed because I only came to a rolling stop, not a complete, and yes, legal stop.



I'm less concerned with the ability of a cop to ticket me than with the likelihood of being ticketed. You won't get a ticket in Anchorage for doing a rolling stop at a stop sign. Cops don't enforce full stops for cars, much less bikes. Hell, they hardly enforce any traffic laws for bikes. Since a rolling stop on a bicycle is just as safe as a full stop, and I'm in no danger of getting ticketed, I feel justified in observing just the intent of the law (clearing the right of way before proceeding through a stop sign). When I'm driving in heavy traffic, I drive the speed of traffic, not the posted limit. I do this because it's safer than going 5-10 mph than everyone else, and I will never be ticketed for it.

This incident is entirely the fault of the other cyclist. If I had come to a complete stop and then proceeded I still wouldn't have seen him coming, I wouldn't have predicted that another bike was about to blow through the intersection at full speed, and he still would've almost hit me. All that this incident reinforced for me is that running stop signs is reckless, which I already knew. And because I knew this, I came to a rolling stop before proceeding through the intersection.



Yeah, I did this. I always do this. Honestly, safety trumps legality in dictating how I ride. If I had seen the intersection runner coming, I would've yielded right of way sooner, even though I had the legal right of way. I don't think that we actually disagree on this.The lengths some go to in justifying their law breaking while continuing to whine of other cyclist breaking the very same law. He road at a speed that he felt it was safe to go through the stop sign and YOU road at a speed that you felt it was safe to go through the stop sign without stopping and YOU BOTH WERE WRONG. But yet no collision occurred because YOU BOTH took corrective action (but you still found it fit to whine about the corrective action he took that helped avoid a collision).

If you are going to break the law, stop whining about other cyclist breaking the very same law.

The lengths some go to in justifying their law breaking while continuing to whine of other cyclist breaking the very same law. He road at a speed that he felt it was safe to go through the stop sign and YOU road at a speed that you felt it was safe to go through the stop sign without stopping and YOU BOTH WERE WRONG. But yet no collision occurred because YOU BOTH took corrective action (but you still found it fit to whine about the corrective action he took that helped avoid a collision).

If you are going to break the law, stop whining about other cyclist breaking the very same law.

I never whined that the other cyclist was breaking the law, you're the one who brought legality into the argument. I related an anecdote about someone who was riding dangerously, with a reckless disregard for my safety. It bugged me, and it seemed like a thread about stupid (not illegal, just dumb) people on the road was an OK place to post it. To reiterate: I was condemning the riding practice of blowing stop signs as unsafe, not illegal.

I don't gripe about people who do rolling stops for the same reason I don't care about people who roll 5 mph over the posted limit, neither action poses any threat to me. I do grouse about people who blow stop signs without slowing down and people who roll 25 mph above the speed limit, because those actions are reckless and irresponsible and could hurt someone other than the speeder/stop sign runner. I'm especially riled when said reckless activity almost wrecks me personally. All of these activities are illegal, but only half of them bug me because I'm not bothered by someone not adhering to the strict letter of the law.

I've never claimed to follow the letter of the law, and I don't have to go to great lengths to justify my law breaking. Watch:

Rolling stops at an unoccupied intersection: Safe? Yes. Will I be punished? No. Does anyone care? No. Verdict: Justified.

Driving the speed of traffic on crowded roadways, even if above the posted limit: Safe? Yes. Will I be punished? No. Does anyone care? No. Verdict: Justified.

Smoking herb in the privacy of my own home: Safe? Safe enough for me, and certainly not harming anyone else. Will I be punished? No, that's one reason that I live in AK. Does anyone care? Nobody whose opinion matters to me. Verdict: Justified.

If you can't recognize that there are varying degrees of recklessness possible when comparing different actions regardless of whether both (or neither) of the actions are illegal, then you're a fool. If you think that fully disregarding a stop sign is the same thing as yielding to a stop sign, then you're a moron. And if you're a moron, then the thread is about you on the road, not cluttering up the thread with your pedantic nonsense. So either post some anecdotes about you riding on the road, or GTFO.

If you had come to a complete stop at the supposed unoccupied intersection, then there would not have been a near collision. Good thing for you that the other cyclist had some better bike handling skills.

So keep making up laws like "yielding to a stop sign" to prove yourself the fool. Me personally, I yield to other traffic when necessary to keep myself safe.

Oh, PS: This entire thread, from the OP on, is just about you and cowboy whining about other cyclist, so pointing out the whining is quite on point.

If you had come to a complete stop at the supposed unoccupied intersection, then there would not have been a near collision. Good thing for you that the other cyclist had some better bike handling skills.

:wtf:


So keep making up laws like "yielding to a stop sign" to prove yourself the fool.

Either your reading comprehension is in the dumps, or you just aren't reading. I never made up any laws. I've never even argued that the law was an issue. I was griping about a reckless cyclist. You're the one who keeps going on about legality, as though my rolling stop somehow equalizes fault in a near collision.


Me personally, I yield to other traffic when necessary to keep myself safe.

Yeah, me too. You'd know that if you actually read my posts, you self-righteous pr...

Ah, funk it. Arguing with you is like arguing with a wall. You win, anonymous Hawaiian dude. I can't counter your rock solid "point repetition without addressing counter-arguments" style. You're a bona fide internet samurai. May your bold assertions and willful ignorance stay forever sharp, and forever ready.

I haven't been this internet-pissed since I stopped hanging around that troll's nest that is the SomethingAwful boards.

Ah yes, Advocacy and Safety, where we are not only morally superior to motorists, but to most of those riding bikes.

Earlier today when I was out riding I encountered a salmon...

A couple of years ago I was tooling along on my road bike on the way to work down a busy blvd that squeezed down to one lane of 35 mph traffic, parallel parked cars, and just enough space between to barely stay out of the door zone. Some dude on a rusty beach cruiser with a huge front wire basket loaded with dumpster diving treasures came zooming out of a side street to my right, totally blew the stop sign, and tried to go contraflow in my space. He looked up (finally) and saw me, lost control of his bike and ran head on into the front of the first parked car, jettisoning all of the cr@p from his basket onto the car trunk, himself into the basket, then everything onto the ground. He jumped up and cursed me until I rode out of earshot.

No....I did not stop to see if he was OK, as I would just as happily kicked him off his bike if I had the time to react.

Morally superior indeed.

He looked up (finally) and saw me, lost control of his bike and ran head on into the front of the first parked car, jettisoning all of the cr@p from his basket onto the car trunk, himself into the basket, then everything onto the ground.

And you didn't have your camera rolling?:(

My helmet cam was not invented yet. And most of the good action happened in my rear view mirror anyway.

Some dude on a rusty beach cruiser with a huge front wire basket loaded with dumpster diving treasures came zooming out of a side street to my right, totally blew the stop sign, and tried to go contraflow in my space. He looked up (finally) and saw me, lost control of his bike and ran head on into the front of the first parked car, jettisoning all of the cr@p from his basket onto the car trunk, himself into the basket, then everything onto the ground. He jumped up and cursed me until I rode out of earshot.

Wow, that is a great mental picture. Props to your storytelling, Joey.

Meh- who needs Tea Partiers and the Congress when we've got A&S?:fight::bang: