Northern California - Cyclist yesterday on 84

I was driving west on 84 yesterday afternoon when I saw some eastbound riders on road bikes coming around a turn. There was one cyclist (I believe he was wearing a blue jersey) who looked like he lost control, ran off into the dirt and over the edge. I was going to stop, but there was no shoulder in that section and it was on a blind curve. Fortunately, there was a guy behind them in a Subaru who stopped. Just past this, we passed what looked like a Parks & Rec or forest service truck or something on the road so I'm sure he (or she) would have stopped, too. If you or someone you were with is reading this, I hope you're OK. That looked like a nasty and scary crash.

84 is evil. :(

Um, 84 is a pretty long road ... it starts out at the coast in San Gregorio, heads thru Woodside, crosses the bay over the Dumbarton Bridge, becomes Niles Canyon Rd out to Sunol, and winds up in Livermore.

So about where was this?

Um, 84 is a pretty long road ... it starts out at the coast in San Gregorio, heads thru Woodside, crosses the bay over the Dumbarton Bridge, becomes Niles Canyon Rd out to Sunol, and winds up in Livermore.

So about where was this?

From the sound of it, seems like Eastbound on E84 (basically Skyline down to Woodside descent).

did it look like he took it too hot or was he just not comfortable turning? Most of the tighter or more difficult sections would be ones that lead you into oncoming traffic.

pictures? google satellite?

From the sound of it, seems like Eastbound on E84 (basically Skyline down to Woodside descent).


did it look like he took it too hot or was he just not comfortable turning? Most of the tighter or more difficult sections would be ones that lead you into oncoming traffic.

That section of 84 seems to attract a lot of nervous new descenders wobbling their way down. Poor choice as it is also one of the most heavily-trafficked roads in the area.

Hope the rider is ok!

pictures?

I'm also interested to know exactly where this occurred. I know of two very experienced riders who went down hard at the last right-hand turn just above Portola Road in the past 6-7 weeks. Each suffered a concussion, broken ribs, and broken scapula. One also had a broken collarbone and the other suffered a fractured hip.

Weird that they crashed at the same location and had similar injuries so close within a month and a half of each other.

you better make a warning sign before someone has to make a roadside memorial

Yes, sorry I forgot to mention that it was in-between Skyline and Woodside. And I was driving around a very sharp turn, so no there are no pictures. If I had been able to stop to take a picture, I'd have been able to get out and help. It was a left hand (heading east) turn. There were other riders with him and eastbound motorists stopping so I'm sure he got plenty of help, it was just freaky to witness and I posted this to see if I could find out if he was OK or not.

That section of 84 seems to attract a lot of nervous new descenders wobbling their way down. Poor choice as it is also one of the most heavily-trafficked roads in the area.

Hope the rider is ok!

Tis the season, oh wait wrong forum. Well to be fair it's the least technical path to get down from that mountain. Only other option is 9, but between crazy motorcyclists who treat it like a freaken race track and traffic it's even worse then 84.

Tis the season, oh wait wrong forum. Well to be fair it's the least technical path to get down from that mountain. Only other option is 9, but between crazy motorcyclists who treat it like a freaken race track and traffic it's even worse then 84.

Yes, the wide sweeping curves lull new descenders into level of high confidence, then the couple of sharper curves take them by surprise. Happened to my friend about a month back.

seriously put up a volunteer sign for other cyclists. this is what I call a "kill zone" I have a few on my commute, but the difference here is this zone of yours is actually taking out riders. if the road crew takes it down put up another. autos need/benefit from warning signage why not cycles too! not sure what it would say, maybe "cycles caution" and show a picture of cyclist tipping over like those tractor trailer warning signs
http://www.thesignlady.net/signs/images/warningsigns/W7-518X18HillBicycleSymbol.jpg
http://www.thesignlady.net/signs/images/warningsigns/W1-13TruckRollover.jpg
http://www.thesignlady.net/signs/Warning-signs.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bike/2237798905/

also curious if you guys can pinpoint this spot on google maps please

is this it:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&sll=37.996163,-95.712891&sspn=36.312064,67.763672&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=***_PQIdD1u8-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&ll=37.590159,-121.933479&spn=0.03761,0.066175&t=h&z=14 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&sll=37.996163,-95.712891&sspn=36.312064,67.763672&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=***_PQIdD1u8-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&ll=37.594104,-121.873398&spn=0.300867,0.529404&z=11)

Yes, the wide sweeping curves lull new descenders into level of high confidence, then the couple of sharper curves take them by surprise. Happened to my friend about a month back.

It's a terrible road to learn on. Lots of decreasing radius turns, lots of off-camber turns, plus the tar snakes all over the place.

also curious if you guys can pinpoint this spot on google maps please

is this it:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&sll=37.996163,-95.712891&sspn=36.312064,67.763672&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=***_PQIdD1u8-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&ll=37.590159,-121.933479&spn=0.03761,0.066175&t=h&z=14 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&sll=37.996163,-95.712891&sspn=36.312064,67.763672&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=***_PQIdD1u8-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&ll=37.594104,-121.873398&spn=0.300867,0.529404&z=11)

Other side of the bay.

Other side of the bay.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=s_q&hl=en&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=***_PQIdD1u8-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&msa=0&ll=37.397539,-122.25837&spn=0.013211,0.01929&t=h&z=16&msid=110839536820005784414.0004828e0e306058d75a6

My guess is one of these corners. Both are sharper than you'd expect when you get into them. The hairpin is less so, but it has a lot of that slippery sealant on it.

wow, who engineered that? that's definitely not a uniform angle around the whole turn!

also notice the spots along the outside where there are dirt patches and trees missing? I don't wonder why. how many vehicles mowed down some trees?

wow, who engineered that? that's definitely not a uniform angle around the whole turn!

also notice the spots along the outside where there are dirt patches and trees missing? I don't wonder why. how many vehicles mowed down some trees?

Eh, I think the mountain engineered those turns. It's fine in a car with shorter stopping distance, and fine on a bike if you don't hit the opening of the corner at the limit. If you ride on the edge on descents you don't know, it's user error.

Actually I think this is the most dangerous turn, specially when it's a bit wet.... ouch (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=&daddr=37.392138,-122.262191&hl=en&geocode=&mra=mi&mrsp=0&sz=17&sll=37.39078,-122.262779&sspn=0.007885,0.013078&ie=UTF8&ll=37.392063,-122.261792&spn=0,359.99673&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=37.392109,-122.262199&panoid=OTZOnOWD-B4EUev8M_iVXQ&cbp=12,343.41,,0,6.26)

The fact that road bikes have skinny little tires simply doesn't present a lot of rubber on the road for cornering and braking. Add in the lack of experience most will have at fast decents and high cornering speeds, and often dicey pavement, spills are gonna' happen.
When I was younger and rode a motorcycle, I did a lot hard cornering at high lean angles. There is no way I could get myself to lean that far on bicycle.

There is no way I could get myself to lean that far on bicycle.

You can still lean over pretty far, far enough to catch a pedal on the lumpy (bad) patch jobs on the upper part of the descent. That's my impression of 84; sometimes it's better to coast through a turn than pedal out of it for this very reason.

On weekend afternoons in warmer months. I drove up the road once last year on a Sunday and was amazed to see how many bike were descending--many sandwiched between a car right in front of them and one right behind.

I mean, no room for error and didn't look like any fun to me.

I used to work at Palo Alto Square in the '80s and it was great leaving work and going up OLH to 84 and back. I had 84 all to myself. But what I see on weekends, no thank you.

Scary to hear about the severe injuries suffered by the riders making the turn for Portola. I don't like to see tenative or paranoid cyclists descending at 20 mph either. It makes bicyclists even more unpopular when that happens.

I think the road can be safey taken about the same speed as an average car driver, but yes, you have to have the road wired into you and a weekend probably isn't the best time to learn this.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=s_q&hl=en&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=***_PQIdD1u8-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&msa=0&ll=37.397539,-122.25837&spn=0.013211,0.01929&t=h&z=16&msid=110839536820005784414.0004828e0e306058d75a6

My guess is one of these corners. Both are sharper than you'd expect when you get into them. The hairpin is less so, but it has a lot of that slippery sealant on it.


yeah but both of those corners have you crossing traffic (which the OP implied he was going up hill in the opposite direction).

The first one you marked I have an entry speed of about 28-30 mph. the second one I have an entry speed of maybe 20 mph. this is with using the whole lane and cutting the apex. Note: i've also been down that descent more than a couple dozen times and i'm a cat 4.

yeah but both of those corners have you crossing traffic (which the OP implied he was going up hill in the opposite direction).

The first one you marked I have an entry speed of about 28-30 mph. the second one I have an entry speed of maybe 20 mph. this is with using the whole lane and cutting the apex. Note: i've also been down that descent more than a couple dozen times and i'm a cat 4.

I read the "left hand turn" as in the driver of the car (OP) was turning left, but I guess you could be right. I think the corners I guessed at were the ones I think about when I get to them. Can't think of a worrisome left turn on that stretch.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=s_q&hl=en&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=***_PQIdD1u8-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&msa=0&ll=37.397539,-122.25837&spn=0.013211,0.01929&t=h&z=16&msid=110839536820005784414.0004828e0e306058d75a6

My guess is one of these corners. Both are sharper than you'd expect when you get into them. The hairpin is less so, but it has a lot of that slippery sealant on it.
It was actually one of the two sharp left-hand turns in-between the two markers you placed on the map.

I read the "left hand turn" as in the driver of the car (OP) was turning left, but I guess you could be right. I think the corners I guessed at were the ones I think about when I get to them. Can't think of a worrisome left turn on that stretch.
As I said previously the road curved to the left, eastbound therefore the cyclist was turning left. Or at least attempting to, bascially ran right off the road.

Both those corners have speed signs though so I wouldn't expect anyone to under-estimate them... the second one is also banked..

On weekend afternoons in warmer months. I drove up the road once last year on a Sunday and was amazed to see how many bike were descending--many sandwiched between a car right in front of them and one right behind.I enjoy descending 84, but it's not for everyone. You definitely have to be paying close attention both to the road and the omnipresent cars in both directions.

Both those corners have speed signs though so I wouldn't expect anyone to under-estimate them... the second one is also banked..

They are just a suggestion. :roflmao2:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=s_q&hl=en&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=***_PQIdD1u8-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&msa=0&ll=37.397539,-122.25837&spn=0.013211,0.01929&t=h&z=16&msid=110839536820005784414.0004828e0e306058d75a6

My guess is one of these corners. Both are sharper than you'd expect when you get into them. The hairpin is less so, but it has a lot of that slippery sealant on it.


Actually, it's the left-hander above the lower hairpin curve that I think is the most dangerous: a sweeping , decreasing radius, off-camber turn that lures you into taking it a bit too hot. Most folks know that you have to take the lower hairpin slow and accelerate out.

Actually, it's the left-hander above the lower hairpin curve that I think is the most dangerous: a sweeping , decreasing radius, off-camber turn that lures you into taking it a bit too hot. Most folks know that you have to take the lower hairpin slow and accelerate out.

It's also the most dangerous because it is one of the most deceiving turns going the other direction (uphill) so there is a good chance that a car coming the other way will blow the DY.

wow ~ that last link really shows just how crazy curved that road is! do they ever close it just for cyclists? meaning no cars for the day or a few hours?

20 mph advised. i think i take it at around 25-27... it is deceiving though

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=s_q&hl=en&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=***_PQIdD1u8-A&split=0&hq=&hnear=State+Highway+84,+Alameda,+California&msa=0&t=p&msid=110839536820005784414.0004828e0e306058d75a6&ll=37.401221,-122.256632&spn=0,359.967084&z=15&layer=c&cbll=37.40111,-122.256638&panoid=u5qAmtBO_Z__rEzM__y3dQ&cbp=12,344.22,,0,3.59

wow ~ that last link really shows just how crazy curved that road is! do they ever close it just for cyclists? meaning no cars for the day or a few hours?

No, it is the main through road for the area. It would be like closing down 101 for cyclists.

do they ever close it just for cyclists?

It should be closed for a little while on May 18 for a few select ascending cyclists! :)

It should be closed for a little while on May 18 for a few select ascending cyclists! :)

Yes, they will do that. It will be for a very short time and they'll warn all the residents of the area well ahead of time.

Maybe it's because I really know the road, but I love E84.

To me it's classic.

So close to home, perfectly positioned in the scheme of the area, just the right mix of speed and still being pretty technical.

Only problem is I am always catching the cars. ;)

Maybe it's because I really know the road, but I love E84.

To me it's classic.

So close to home, perfectly positioned in the scheme of the area, just the right mix of speed and still being pretty technical.

Only problem is I am always catching the cars. ;)

yeah i nearly ran into a lexus suv going down it today. they braked wayyy too hard in one of the fast corners..

Descended it today for the second time since February. I think it was even more of a nerve wreck then last time. :( I kept "feeling" front wheel slipping, which of course wasn't true.

Anyway. I am surprised people mention last left as a hard one, I would think it would be the right turn before it.

My favorite part is the series of S turns at the bottom just before the end. Full blast, no brakes.

My favorite part is the series of S turns at the bottom just before the end. Full blast, no brakes.

yeah i can hit those at 35-40 mph depending on the wind. its a bit sketch with cars though

Descended it today for the second time since February. I think it was even more of a nerve wreck then last time. :( I kept "feeling" front wheel slipping, which of course wasn't true.

Anyway. I am surprised people mention last left as a hard one, I would think it would be the right turn before it.

are you descending in the drops?

can't you guys take a lane?

are you descending in the drops?

Yes. I am also on my backup bike, cannondale. My only theory is more vibration gets translated to the hands, and I my brain is still not fully there. Maybe also more pressure on the handlebars. Cannondale got fitted a while back, and I haven't ridden it in a couple of years. I was descending on Skyline today from Kings towards Alice Bar and took a corner "too hot" and felt like front wheel was about to loose it on the slightly bumpy road. Well not really but heart rate sure went up A LOT. So I started to slow down while turning all the while feeling like the wheel is about to go. Obviously there was PLENTY of traction since I was able to use the brakes and not crash myself out. Yeah I know it was a mistake to use the brakes.

The descend down 84 was horrible. I was putsing along around 20-22, and had to pull a side to let the cars pass. Usually the cars slow me down. This really really sucks.

can't you guys take a lane?

Everyone takes the lane. The road is just not wide enough to share. There are few spots where rider can pull off to let the cars pass thought.

I see, you can take the lane but you can't keep it. that stinks

I see, you can take the lane but you can't keep it. that stinks

depends on how fast you descend. if you can keep a speed around 30 mph, cars won't have a chance to pass you (since most are actually slower in the corners) but there are a lot of slower riders descending too, smoking their brakes at 20 mph.

i forgot to mention earlier another hazard is riders climbing up 84. they make cars and RVs and trucks cross the double yellow in order to pass them (no real shoulder on the road). i dislike those people a lot. if you're going to use a triple, you might as well climb up Old La Honda or Kings Mountain Rd.

depends on how fast you descend. if you can keep a speed around 30 mph, cars won't have a chance to pass you (since most are actually slower in the corners) but there are a lot of slower riders descending too, smoking their brakes at 20 mph.

That is the weekend drivers...the locals are generally quite a bit faster than the cyclists. ;)