Living Car Free - I want to live car free

Hey everyone, due to financial difficulties I began sharing a car with my mom recently. (We live about 4 blocks away from each other) but ever since it became sunny I've been walking to the grocery store and just around town because I love it so much. Then I remembered I lived in china for 2 years and I rode a bike everywhere, I didn't have a car and now I'm thinking of doing the same thing. I was hoping you guys could point me in the right direction of where to find the type of bike I should get.

I am prepared to spend up to $1000 for an ideal bicycle but preferably much less. It all depends on the capability of the bicycle.

I'm going to be riding it mostly as a commuter and sometimes for leisure but probably no distancs longer than 4 miles roundtrip. I'm not opposed to a hybrid bicycle. Since I'll want to ride everyday, I don't need to carry too many groceries each day but a nice basket or area to carry some items would be ideal. I could always just use a backpack as well if that is better. I am not an experienced biker whatsoever, my bike in china cost $15 and had one speed and I loved it.

Don't need a $1000 bike to do 4 miles. Get one around $300-400 and it should be decent enough to last a while. Also a rack would help with larger loads.

I am prepared to spend up to $1000 for an ideal bicycle but preferably much less. It all depends on the capability of the bicycle.

There's a hardly a better deal on the planet, then a quality used bike.
Check the local Craigslist, area Bike Shops (they often take trade-ins that they re-sell), and classifieds.

A decent hard-tail (no rear suspension) MTB bicycle, set up with slick tires can serve as an excellent short-trip commuter/utility cycle.
Plus they usually have braze-ons for rack attachments, and have wide enough forks and dropouts to accept most fenders.

There's a hardly a better deal on the planet, then a quality used bike.
Check the local Craigslist, area Bike Shops (they often take trade-ins that they re-sell), and classifieds.

A decent hard-tail (no rear suspension) MTB bicycle, set up with slick tires can serve as an excellent short-trip commuter/utility cycle.
Plus they usually have braze-ons for rack attachments, and have wide enough forks and dropouts to accept most fenders.

I'm checking my local craigslist now. I can't believe I hadn't thought of that before. Thanks!

I'm checking my local craigslist now. I can't believe I hadn't thought of that before. Thanks!
I'm not so sure. I ordinarily recommend used bikes--especially MTBs--and that's what I ride the most often myself. But in this case I think I would go a different way. Used bikes are hard to pick out, they might not be ready-to-ride, and they might have issues that you don't want to deal with.

Since you do have some money to spend, I suggest that you go to a good local bike shop (LBS) to buy your bike. Tell the salesperson how you'll be using the bike. You would probably be happy with a decent geared hybrid for $300 to $400. Or you might want to spend a few dollars more and get a bike with hub gears, or something a little lighter or more stylish. The LBS should help with fitting the bike to your size, as well as a free tune-up and some kind of warranty. They can also help you select a basket or panniers, and a set of lights (needed only if you'll be riding after dark).

Don't be surprised if you catch the bike bug and want to upgrade after a few months of riding. In that case, having a relationship with a good LBS could be quite useful Good luck and have fun with it! :)

I have 2-3 recommendations for you to try...if you can find them in stock somewhere.

Torker Cargo-T
(http://www.torkerusa.com/bikes/utility/2010-cargot)
Torker Graduate (http://www.torkerusa.com/bikes/commuter-life/2010-graduate)

Torker T530 (http://www.torkerusa.com/bikes/commuter-life/2010-t530)

All of them are available from SBS (Seattle Bike Supply) just ask the shop if they buy from them.

I have the Redline version of the T530. All of these bikes offer some serious bang for the buck when it comes to the utility side of things.

The Cargo-T is a 3 speed and was reviewed by Bike Commuters (http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/06/09/review-torker-cargo-t/) as was the Graduate (http://www.bikecommuters.com/2010/03/17/torker-graduate-review/) they also did the Redline R530 (http://www.bikecommuters.com/?s=R530) which is a twin to the T530. I have an R530 and will be buying a Graduate for my son shortly. I still want the Cargo-T but can't justify it....yet.:innocent:

There are plenty of other bikes out there, but these are 3 that have caught my attention as being an excellent value for the dollar and fairly easy to obtain. FWIW I have over 30 bikes, mostly vintage and am always looking for something a bit different and eminently affordable.

The picture is of my tricked out R530.:D

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/44491/2253513710066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

I have 2-3 recommendations for you to try...if you can find them in stock somewhere.

Torker Cargo-T
(http://www.torkerusa.com/bikes/utility/2010-cargot)
Torker Graduate (http://www.torkerusa.com/bikes/commuter-life/2010-graduate)

Torker T530 (http://www.torkerusa.com/bikes/commuter-life/2010-t530)

All of them are available from SBS (Seattle Bike Supply) just ask the shop if they buy from them.


Aaron, thanks so much! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'll read the reviews and see the differences between them but this looks to be exactly what I was looking for!

Glad to be able to help. Anytime I see anyone on a bicycle I figure it has to be a good thing, regardless of how they got there. ;)

Aaron :)

I agree with Roody. If you've got the money, there are good reasons to buy new. Things like better fit, a certain amount of free service from the shop, being able to get what you need rather than just what's available.

That said, you may want to start with something inexpensive (again like Roody said). A $300 Diamondback from Dick's Sporting Goods, or last year's entry-level hybrid from a nicer brand at a LBS will get you around short distances just fine. That bike isn't going to be worth upgrading components, but once you've had it for a year or so you'll have a better idea of what you want. Then you can buy a nice bike that you'll be able to ride for a good, long time.

On the other hand, since you're going short distances speed isn't that much of an issue. You might find something like a Kona Ute (http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=ute) to be a good option. The size and weight would be an issue for longer distances, but 4 miles isn't much, and it would let you carry groceries and such much more easily.

On the third hand, the Ute wouldn't be well suited if you wanted to start riding longer distances recreationally. It's pretty special-purpose.

Glad to be able to help. Anytime I see anyone on a bicycle I figure it has to be a good thing, regardless of how they got there. ;)

Aaron :)

How do you guys feel about the Trek Allant? It seems in the same price range as the Torker's and none of the bicycle shops around me withing biking distance carry Torkers.

http://www.ultimatebicyclenc.com/archives/683

Trek is certainly a reputable brand. I prefer a non derailleur bike for my utility use. But that Trek looks like a decent deal and is available from your LBS. Go down and give it a test ride and see how you like it.

Aaron ;)

I'm not particularly fond of Trek, partly because I live in their hometown. They make decent enough bikes, and you do see a fair number of them on the roads... but they are always, always ALWAYS modified to hell and back. (they also make LeMond and Gary Fisher, and counting those is the only way you get to see lots) Every year I look at their new lineup, and want to scream because yet again, the Madison tribute bikes are nothing anyone sane would ride around here.

Mod #1 is lights. The Allant doesn't have lights. A cheapie set of lights, so you don't scare your neighbors half to death is about $30. A decent set of lights like Planet Bike's Blaze and Superflash is around $70-100. Planet Bike is also a local company, but they make bike stuff that gets used around here. (dear fellow Madison bikers... please support local businesses and buy more damn lights)

The rack and fenders show that Trek sorta, kinda pays attention to what is on the streets in their hometown. Naturally, the bikes named for local neighborhoods and bits of geography don't get *that* kind of attention. (see also: Atwood) The Allant's fender's aren't the greatest, but should be ok. The gearing for once is not stark raving mad.

Saddles also get modded a lot. Unlike what Bikeforums might lead you to believe, you don't *have* to swap the saddle out... but by eyeball, about half the bikes I see parked around town (not dumped, parked) have had a saddle swap. Odds are the Allant's saddle would drive me nuts, so I'd probably swap it. If you put in 100-200 miles on the stock saddle and it's hurting even on 5 mile trips... SWAP IT. Some people's bodies like soft puffy saddles, some like hard ones.

It's definitely better than a typical Trek. If you ride year round and fuss over your bike, figure the drivetrain will last about 3-5 years in Madison's climate. Replacing it with a comparable drivetrain will be about half the cost of a new bike. People *do* it all the time here. But sinking $350 into drivetrain and winter tires every three years beats the hell outta car repair bills.

FWIW, I'd say the most common "bought new" bikes around here are Surlys and Bianchis. San Jose, Volpe, Long Haul Trucker and Crosscheck. Under $500, it seems like most people go for used. I think the only Treks I've seen new are 7100 step throughs, cheap FX7.1s and the occasional Gary Fisher Triton. I've actually seen more Big Dummies than new Treks :o. (there are at least 4 Big Dummies)

Trek is certainly a reputable brand. I prefer a non derailleur bike for my utility use. But that Trek looks like a decent deal and is available from your LBS. Go down and give it a test ride and see how you like it.

Aaron ;)



Ahh, thanks for pointing that out. I was wondering about the gear system since there was such a huge speed discrepency. I'm going to the shop with the Torker :).


I'm not particularly fond of Trek, partly because I live in their hometown. They make decent enough bikes, and you do see a fair number of them on the roads... but they are always, always ALWAYS modified to hell and back.

Thanks, I'm really looking for something hassle free and the Trek sounds like it's a step back from the torker.

I am prepared to spend up to $1000 for an ideal bicycle but preferably much less. It all depends on the capability of the bicycle.

I would recommend you set aside at least $200 for a quality bicycle and set aside at least $300 for bike related stuff.

If you're riding at night, buy LED lights (and appropriate batteries).

Use a helmet.

If you're riding on bumpy roads or roads that aren't sqeaky-clean, consider a bike with fat tires - a mountain bike. (the fat tires will be too slow for racing, but they can save you time with their heavy rubber that doesn't get flats too easily).

If you don't already have them, consider buying a good rain coat, rain pants, and rubber boots.

On rainy days, you can pack your stuff in plastic grocery bags inside a backpack if you want. You can also get a rack and waterproof panniers to go with it, but decent panniers are kind of expensive.

I've ridden a lot of treks, and they're good for me. To tell the truth, I don't see a big difference in overall quality between different brands at similar price points. I do see a big difference in ride experience, which is an individualistic thing. I have never found a bike I liked riding more that a cheap little Haro MTB I have. For me it just feels comfortable, quick and responsive. But a friend who is the same size as me hates that Haro. And I hate his bike, which feels clunky and unsafe to me for some reason.

What I'm trying to say is that you really need to try a lot of bikes. Be critical and write down your impressions. Eventually you will find one (or more) that you love and want to keep forever, but it probably won't be the first bike you buy.

I would recommend you set aside at least $200 for a quality bicycle and set aside at least $300 for bike related stuff.

If you're riding at night, buy LED lights (and appropriate batteries).

Use a helmet.

If you're riding on bumpy roads or roads that aren't sqeaky-clean, consider a bike with fat tires - a mountain bike. (the fat tires will be too slow for racing, but they can save you time with their heavy rubber that doesn't get flats too easily).

If you don't already have them, consider buying a good rain coat, rain pants, and rubber boots.

On rainy days, you can pack your stuff in plastic grocery bags inside a backpack if you want. You can also get a rack and waterproof panniers to go with it, but decent panniers are kind of expensive.

Good advice on saving a bit of money for upgrades and accessories. I sometimes forget about them, I have a whole shop full of bikes and quite often will purchase one and promptly swap stuff between them. I also look for clearance sales and sales in general and stock up on things I know I will use like, blinkys, head lights, tires and tubes. I got a batch of Planet Bike SuperFlashes a while back for ~$14 each:D

Aaron:)

I've ridden a lot of treks, and they're good for me. To tell the truth, I don't see a big difference in overall quality between different brands at similar price points. I do see a big difference in ride experience, which is an individualistic thing. I have never found a bike I liked riding more that a cheap little Haro MTB I have. For me it just feels comfortable, quick and responsive. But a friend who is the same size as me hates that Haro. And I hate his bike, which feels clunky and unsafe to me for some reason.

What I'm trying to say is that you really need to try a lot of bikes. Be critical and write down your impressions. Eventually you will find one (or more) that you love and want to keep forever, but it probably won't be the first bike you buy.

Hmm...I never considered Haro a cheap bike. I had one of their elevated chainstay MTB's back in the day and IIRC it was not cheap. My son has a monster sized Haro MTB, a V4.0? it was the only bike we could find that he felt comfortable on when he headed off to college. It is parked in my shop at the moment, but it is getting fenders, slicks and a rack and will be on the Amtrak to Boston in a couple of weeks.

Aaron :)

Ordered a T-530 today, will be in this week! Can't wait. Thanks for all the advice.

Hmm...I never considered Haro a cheap bike. I had one of their elevated chainstay MTB's back in the day and IIRC it was not cheap. My son has a monster sized Haro MTB, a V4.0? it was the only bike we could find that he felt comfortable on when he headed off to college. It is parked in my shop at the moment, but it is getting fenders, slicks and a rack and will be on the Amtrak to Boston in a couple of weeks.

Aaron :)
I probably should have said entry-level rather than cheap. The Haro I like so much probably cost about $400 new and I paid about $150 lightly used.

Ordered a T-530 today, will be in this week! Can't wait. Thanks for all the advice.

Congratulations! :thumb:

Get some pictures of it for us when you get it.

Aaron:)

Congratulations! :thumb:

Get some pictures of it for us when you get it.

Aaron:)

Turns out "3 days" for shipping before you purchase, turns in to 5-7 days after they've already made the sale. I hate all salesman, but my T-530 should be here by wednesday latest.

Turns out "3 days" for shipping before you purchase, turns in to 5-7 days after they've already made the sale. I hate all salesman, but my T-530 should be here by wednesday latest.

Not surprising IIRC the SBS warehouse is on the west coast.

Aaron :)

Finally got the bike, and I absolutely LOVE it. The way the 7 speed shifts is awesome, I'm a clutz and I remember as a child I made the chain fall off my bike several times but this feels much sturdier and easy to maneuver. I wish I had the 8 speed though, since I could use a gear that's a little bit lighter than first gear. It's hard for me to go up some hills, but not a big deal.

I live in westchester NY, right outside NYC but I picked the bike up in NYC. One thing i notice is that it's extremely not bicycle friendly. In china there is a bike lane for basically every street and thats very convenient. Here the law states you cannot ride on sidewalks (but you'll find plenty of delivery men doing it) and you must obey traffic laws, but it's very scary as cars get appear to get frustrated and run you off the road whether it be by accident or not. Hopefully that will change in the future.

Other than that, thanks for the recommendation. I love it. I was willing to spend a lot of money, but this bike is way nicer than anything I originally had in mind.

JW,
You can get the shop to swap out the rear sprocket for one with more teeth, that will lower the overall gear range and make it a bit easier to pedal up hills. Or just keep riding it and as you build up strength and stamina you will quite often find that you really don't need the lower gear range after all.

Glad to hear the bike is working out for you. I love all of my IGH (Internal Gear Hub) bikes, they are so easy to just hop on and ride. The real payback to me comes from the lack of constant maintenance. I can get by with cleaning it up a couple of times a year.

As far as the riding, check into VC (vehicular cycling). Bicycles are considered vehicles and should be treated as such. Also look for alternate routes that utilize side streets that parallel the busier roads. Sidewalks are my last choice for riding, they are much more dangerous in most cases.

Aaron :)

Finally got the bike, and I absolutely LOVE it. The way the 7 speed shifts is awesome, I'm a clutz and I remember as a child I made the chain fall off my bike several times but this feels much sturdier and easy to maneuver. I wish I had the 8 speed though, since I could use a gear that's a little bit lighter than first gear. It's hard for me to go up some hills, but not a big deal.

I live in westchester NY, right outside NYC but I picked the bike up in NYC. One thing i notice is that it's extremely not bicycle friendly. In china there is a bike lane for basically every street and thats very convenient. Here the law states you cannot ride on sidewalks (but you'll find plenty of delivery men doing it) and you must obey traffic laws, but it's very scary as cars get appear to get frustrated and run you off the road whether it be by accident or not. Hopefully that will change in the future.

Other than that, thanks for the recommendation. I love it. I was willing to spend a lot of money, but this bike is way nicer than anything I originally had in mind.

Not a big surprise if some posts we have seen about NYC is true. NYC is rated as one of the ten worst bicycle friendly cities. But you will get used to it.

Finally got the bike, and I absolutely LOVE it. The way the 7 speed shifts is awesome, I'm a clutz and I remember as a child I made the chain fall off my bike several times but this feels much sturdier and easy to maneuver. I wish I had the 8 speed though, since I could use a gear that's a little bit lighter than first gear. It's hard for me to go up some hills, but not a big deal.



I would get the 22T cog from Sheldon Brown and have the bike shop install it. You'll spend most of your time riding in 7th gear (54 inches) with a first gear that's very low and right for hills (29 inches). I noticed that Torker tends to have their utility bikes geared too high. Good thing it can be fixed cheaply.

I have an R530 and will be buying a Graduate for my son shortly. I still want the Cargo-T but can't justify it....yet.:innocent:



Did you notice how high geared the Graduate was in comparison to the 7 speed? I was reading reviews of the Graduate and most articles stated the bike was geared too high for hills! These are the numbers according to Sheldon.

Inches:

5th-------- 106.3
4th---------89.7
3rd---------70.9
2nd--------56.6
1st--------47.3

Looking at these numbers, he'll do most of his riding in 2nd gear. However, 1st gear is only 47 inches which is too high for the hills unless it's a small roller if you know what I mean. Third gear is too high and 4th gear is insane. I think 5th gear is useless unless your're going down a mountain!.

If you change to a 20T cog, the numbers are much better.

5th -------85.1
4th-------71.8
3rd ------56.7
2nd -----45.3
1st-------37.8

Looking at the numbers, 3rd gear will be the one used most of the time. Still, not my sweet spot of 54 inches but now you have two low gears to work with. The 37 inch first gear is still too high for the hills and I would prefer something closer to 30 inches but it's not that bad.

I have never found a bike I liked riding more that a cheap little Haro MTB I have. For me it just feels comfortable, quick and responsive. But a friend who is the same size as me hates that Haro. And I hate his bike, which feels clunky and unsafe to me for some reason.


Over the years, I've purchased way too many bikes and sold about 5 so far. I have some pretty good bikes costing over 1K but they are hardly used. The bike I do most of my riding today is a 1980 Schwinn World Sport! A used junker purchased off Ebay for 50 bucks! LOL!

The original idea was to use this as a junker to park at the train station. However, this scrached up bike was getting wheels stolen and as I replaced components, it started to get better. Much better! I ended up replacing most of the parts of this bike because it felt worth saving. I like the way it feels and rides like no other bike in my stable. It fits me perfectly.

I have a tremendous amount of respect today for the old ten speeds with friction shifters. Who would have thought.

As far as the riding, check into VC (vehicular cycling). Bicycles are considered vehicles and should be treated as such. Also look for alternate routes that utilize side streets that parallel the busier roads. Sidewalks are my last choice for riding, they are much more dangerous in most cases.

Aaron :)

Aaron,

Hey, I read the wiki on VC and I absolutely love the idea. Sounds to me like a universal principal where you do what's proper and command the respect you deserve. Unfortunately I tried it out today with some negative results. It's hard for me to keep a pace of 20mph (which is still considered slow since the Speedlimit on the roads I travel are 30 and 40mph with people going 40 and 50 normally). I had a 60 year old couple ride up behind me about 100 ft from a redlight and honk their horn at me until I got off the road. At this point I was really discourage (and generally engraged) and I just rode on the sidewalk the rest of the way home.

I guess the only thing I'm wondering is, what speeds do you consider appropriate for a biker on the road? I can see why a car would be totally frustrated with a bike going 20mph, but in reality it's very tiring for me to even keep up 20mph. Is there some rule of thumb or guideline? I can't help but feel either A)I don't belong on the road because I can't cycle fast enough or B) Is there some way I can have these people who run me off the road arrested.

Aaron,

Hey, I read the wiki on VC and I absolutely love the idea. Sounds to me like a universal principal where you do what's proper and command the respect you deserve. Unfortunately I tried it out today with some negative results. It's hard for me to keep a pace of 20mph (which is still considered slow since the Speedlimit on the roads I travel are 30 and 40mph with people going 40 and 50 normally). I had a 60 year old couple ride up behind me about 100 ft from a redlight and honk their horn at me until I got off the road. At this point I was really discourage (and generally engraged) and I just rode on the sidewalk the rest of the way home.

I guess the only thing I'm wondering is, what speeds do you consider appropriate for a biker on the road? I can see why a car would be totally frustrated with a bike going 20mph, but in reality it's very tiring for me to even keep up 20mph. Is there some rule of thumb or guideline? I can't help but feel either A)I don't belong on the road because I can't cycle fast enough or B) Is there some way I can have these people who run me off the road arrested.
Hey, if they honk at you, at least they see you! The real danger is drivers who don't see you, or rather who don't notice you. They'll pull out or turn right in front of you without warning.

For me, the best immediate response to a honk is a wave that indicates "Yes, I heard you." That's my policy. I rarely get honked at any more, but when it happens it's a routine thing that doesn't surprise or disorient me.

If you continue riding for a few months, the honking will decrease. There's a combination of factors.

First, you'll find subtle ways to coexist better with the other traffic. Every route is unique. Some places it seems to make sense to take the lane as visibly and aggressively as possible. Other places it seems to make sense to hug the shoulder or ride a sidewalk. Still other places it makes sense to dismount and for example be a pedestrian for a while. I'm not at all VC, but if you choose to be 100% VC you'll probably get better with practice. There is something to the VC idea of confidently and visibly taking command of the traffic situation. I do it when I have to.

Second, you'll probably find short cuts and alternate routes. That takes a bit of time.

Third, if you consistently ride the same routes, you'll quickly become a familiar figure in your neighborhood. Somehow the traffic will adapt to you, just as you adapt to the traffic. This alone will decrease the honking with time. I don't know how this works, but it does.

About trying to ride 20 mph. It doesn't matter to the cars whether you're going 5 or 25, they'll think you are too slow. You'll get no credit for riding 20. What's most important is that you appear to know what you're doing.

About riding sidewalks. It's perfectly legal in many places. However, it's much more dangerous. If you ride sidewalks or through parking lots, be very aware of all the many directions from which other vehicles can approach. You'll have to assume full responsibility for avoiding collisions. Situational awareness is critical. Also, watch out for unexpected obstructions. And take care of any pedestrians you encounter - don't surprise them when you pass. Dismount if necessary.

I pretty much only do VC... but...

Some roads work better than others. Around here, the side streets are pretty narrow, they have on street parking, and the speed limits are about 25mph. On those roads, very few drivers would feel comfortable going 35 mph. So I take the lane, which I have to do legally... WI has a law where cyclists must give themselves at least 3 feet of space if they're passing a road hazard. Parked cars are explicitly included in the law, due to the hazards of "dooring".

On arterial streets, the speed limit will be 30 or 40mph. But Madison has bike lanes on the arterials, often a full car lane wide. The bike lanes are through lanes, so cars must go through the bike lane to get to the right turn lane. If a bike wants to make a left, they need to be in the left turn lane, or they must do a two stage left. If we're turning right, we use the right turn lane. (some VC zealots say bike lanes are always evil, and you should commit hari kiri before ever using one... I say as long as the bike lane meets the safety criteria these do, they're a fine choice on high speed, high traffic roads)

Minor arterials do not have bike lanes necessarily, but they do usually have a "wide outside lane". There, I take my part of the lane, and a car can safely pass me without leaving the lane. This is generally used on two lane roads here, but I would be fine using this setup on a pretty wide range of roads.

I can ride on high speed roads (to me, 45mph or higher) without bike lanes, but I am pretty careful about doing it. A lot will depend on the traffic level. I'm not a very strong rider, so a narrow 2 lane road that is 50mph and has heavy traffic is not a good choice for me or the car drivers. They can't pass me safely, and if they make a mistake, I'm only going about 10mph. The odds of dying as a cyclist or pedestrian go WAY up when there's more than a 20mph difference in speed. While I may have a legal right to ride on that road... as an experienced driver and cyclist, I feel that sort of road is a poor choice for everyone involved. The stakes are just too high if someone makes a mistake. Add the wide outside lanes, and I'm happy to bike again.

I make a lot of decisions about how and where I bike based on my driving experience. I want it to be very clear what I'm doing, where I'm going, and how I'll move. A confused driver is a dangerous driver, because confusion leads to mistakes, and they're the ones with a 1 or more ton weapon.

My speed depends on the bike. Most of my bikes are upright 15mph is my typical cruising speed, slower if it is hot or I am tired.

VC is not an be all end all, but a useful method to be used in traffic. FWIW I would love nothing better than to live somewhere like The Netherlands where they have unbelievable cycling infrastructure and cars have to stay stuck in traffic.

VC takes a bit to get the hang of, and impatient drivers need to be educated. I have had a person sit behind me and honk the horn and motion me towards the side of the road when there was a second clear lane to the left they could have easily passed me. Obviously they were uneducated in the use and sharing of the roadway.

Aaron :)

My speed depends on the bike. Most of my bikes are upright 15mph is my typical cruising speed, slower if it is hot or I am tired.

VC is not an be all end all, but a useful method to be used in traffic. FWIW I would love nothing better than to live somewhere like The Netherlands where they have unbelievable cycling infrastructure and cars have to stay stuck in traffic.

VC takes a bit to get the hang of, and impatient drivers need to be educated. I have had a person sit behind me and honk the horn and motion me towards the side of the road when there was a second clear lane to the left they could have easily passed me. Obviously they were uneducated in the use and sharing of the roadway.

Aaron :)

Aaron, these honking motorists who try to direct you to the gutter were more common here several years ago. I honestly don't run into that situation much any more. I do practice taking the lane and do what I need to to keep cars out when there is a passing lane. When cars do get too far into my lane, I start signalling with my left arm to let any traffic behind know that this is not right... they should pull into the passing lane.

When more cyclists do this in a city, most drivers get educated quickly.

I'm also convinced that this style of cycling is the safest way to ride the streets.

I had a 60 year old couple ride up behind me about 100 ft from a redlight and honk their horn at me until I got off the road. At this point I was really discourage (and generally engraged) and I just rode on the sidewalk the rest of the way home.


You need to buy a "Take a Look" mirror and see what's going on behind. Too many cyclist are riding blindly on the road and this is a huge mistake. Often, the traffic behind you is piling up to the point where you have to pull over. If you don't have a mirror, there's no way to determine this and the result is a honk.

It's also a huge safty advantage in using a mirror. I found that traffic going in the opposite direction will cut you off fast if they see you're holding up traffic! Cars coming out of side streets will become unpredictable if they think passing you will save them time since you are holding the cars behind.

Using a mirror enables me to ride in the middle of the lane most of the time. Traffic a block away can see my postion and once they catch up to me, I'll get in the door zone or pull over to let them pass. This kind of thinking is against vehicular cycling since you are never to ride in the door zone. However, it is just a temporary situation and once the cars are past, I'm back in the middle of the lane. This technique works very well with a mirror.

You need to buy a "Take a Look" mirror and see what's going on behind. Too many cyclist are riding blindly on the road and this is a huge mistake. Often, the traffic behind you is piling up to the point where you have to pull over. If you don't have a mirror, there's no way to determine this and the result is a honk.

It's also a huge safty advantage in using a mirror. I found that traffic going in the opposite direction will cut you off fast if they see you're holding up traffic! Cars coming out of side streets will become unpredictable if they think passing you will save them time since you are holding the cars behind.

Using a mirror enables me to ride in the middle of the lane most of the time. Traffic a block away can see my postion and once they catch up to me, I'll get in the door zone or pull over to let them pass. This kind of thinking is against vehicular cycling since you are never to ride in the door zone. However, it is just a temporary situation and once the cars are past, I'm back in the middle of the lane. This technique works very well with a mirror.

That's a good idea, but not really relevant to my situation. Luckily I only ride from 10AM-3PM and on roads where there are generally no cars. I always get to the side of the road and let cars pass me if there's a pile up, but generally I'm the last vehicle in the bunch and in this situation ther was no one behind the couple and it was a red light in front. I was still venting when I made my post, but really my question is, how do you deal with drivers who believe you do not have the right to be on the road and will harass you with their horn in accordance with their belief. I got my answers from other people above, they're just ignorant and need to be educated.

My speed depends on the bike. Most of my bikes are upright 15mph is my typical cruising speed, slower if it is hot or I am tired.

VC is not an be all end all, but a useful method to be used in traffic. FWIW I would love nothing better than to live somewhere like The Netherlands where they have unbelievable cycling infrastructure and cars have to stay stuck in traffic.

VC takes a bit to get the hang of, and impatient drivers need to be educated. I have had a person sit behind me and honk the horn and motion me towards the side of the road when there was a second clear lane to the left they could have easily passed me. Obviously they were uneducated in the use and sharing of the roadway.

Aaron :)

My cruising speed is 14-16 mph, average speed in the city (as measured by bike computers) is around 11 mph daytime and a little faster at night. That's slow by BF standards, but faster than most everyday cyclists that I encounter in my city.

I agree about VC being the way to go when you're sharing space with cars. Follow the rules of the road, be visible and predictable, be assertive but not (usually) agressive.

"We're not blocking traffic--we ARE traffic!"

My cruising speed is 14-16 mph, average speed in the city (as measured by bike computers) is around 11 mph daytime and a little faster at night. That's slow by BF standards, but faster than most everyday cyclists that I encounter in my city.

I agree about VC being the way to go when you're sharing space with cars. Follow the rules of the road, be visible and predictable, be assertive but not (usually) agressive.

"We're not blocking traffic--we ARE traffic!"

Hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about VC then. I mean if a automobile was taking hte lane and travelling 11mph when the speed limit is 30 or 40, I would be pretty upset and I think it's wrong. I don't think you deserve the same vehicle rights when you cannot keep a proper speed up. I do think we need more bike lanes though.

Hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about VC then. I mean if a automobile was taking hte lane and travelling 11mph when the speed limit is 30 or 40, I would be pretty upset and I think it's wrong. I don't think you deserve the same vehicle rights when you cannot keep a proper speed up. I do think we need more bike lanes though.

There's no deserve involved. Legally, being classed as a vehicle is a bad thing, because it means you have more restrictions to follow. And you have those greater restrictions because vehicles can kill pedestrians. Pedestrians can do whatever the hell they want, at basically no risk to anyone but themselves.

That is why there's no minimum speed requirement, and things like a horse and rider are classed as a vehicle.

Most people don't understand this or like it (including the police quite often!). But being a vehicle legally is supposed to prevent you from brandishing a lethal weapon in public... which is why it's such a big deal when drivers do not stop for pedestrians, or go out of their way to threaten other people. Cars, horse drawn carriages, bikes... all of them can and do kill. A responsible vehicle user doesn't do that. Might does not make right.

Hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about VC then. I mean if a automobile was taking hte lane and travelling 11mph when the speed limit is 30 or 40, I would be pretty upset and I think it's wrong. I don't think you deserve the same vehicle rights when you cannot keep a proper speed up. I do think we need more bike lanes though.

Regardless of what you think, bikes are legally classified as vehicles almost everywhere in the world. It is no sin to slow a motorist for 5 or 10 seconds, and it's certainly no crime. We're all just trying to get somewhere in a free society, and we'll all get there faster and safer if we share the roads.

It is no sin to slow a motorist for 5 or 10 seconds, and it's certainly no crime

In fact, a vehicle that causes cars to slow down might be doing us all a favor.