Pacific Northwest - Do I know you? Then don't draft off of me!

It happens a few times a week where I riding home through Myrtle Edwards (to the trainyard path, then Ballard) and some dude drafts off of me. I consider it bad etiquette to randomly draft off of the guys who pass you. What's the deal with these guys? Sure, you had a long day, but I don't wanna hear you huffing behind me. At least ask. It happens during the Myrtle Edward portion, where there's plenty of room to pass (unlike the trainyard path). Man, I hate those guys.

Personally, I think you should calm down before you give yourself a stroke.

Does it really matter?

Man, I hate those guys.

I think you should randomly vent from below the waist. :D

Personally, I think you should calm down before you give yourself a stroke.

Does it really matter?

No

Does it really matter?

Well, yes it does. If someone hops on my wheel and I don't know that they are there, I can make a sudden slow or stop and have that person come cramming up my backside. It matters a lot. Wheelsuckers suck.

As an occasional accidental wheel-sucker, it's only because I can't pass and maintain the speed to stay ahead. I'd rather have someone sucking my wheel than playing leap-frog, so, I repay the favor by not leap-frogging someone else.

As an occasional accidental wheel-sucker, it's only because I can't pass and maintain the speed to stay ahead. I'd rather have someone sucking my wheel than playing leap-frog, so, I repay the favor by not leap-frogging someone else.

It's cool by me to have someone riding 20-30 feet behind me where they have ample time to react and not hit me should I need to make an emergency move. It's the guys that get up within feet to ride in my slipstream that I consider to be dangerous wheelsuckers.

20-30 ft, no problem. 5 ft is a problem for the reasons woodway put forth.

Why shouldn't it matter? This isn't the peloton.

Funny you mention venting from below the waist, t4mv! That was my plan but I just can't summon it while riding.

When someone does this to me I do one of three things...speed up, slow down, or turn.

I'm with you, Bogester. I slow down or speed up. Turning usually isn't an option on the bike path.

My technique:
1. Right fore finger to right nostril to close it tightly.
2. Point left nostril under left arm.
3. Blow.
4. Repeat as necessary.

My technique:
1. Right fore finger to right nostril to close it tightly.
2. Point left nostril under left arm.
3. Blow.
4. Repeat as necessary.

That's why I put a fairing on my recumbent- well, one of the reasons.

Snot? A problem!

Normally I don't like strangers drafting off me. Makes me nervous, feels unsafe, and now I have to think about them, instead of just riding my own ride.

However, the other night a guy passes me and then proceeds to slow down when he gets past me (I guess I was his "marker" and he was bound and determined to pass me). So I tried to stay well back behind him, but kept creeping up on him. There was a lot of traffic so I didn't feel safe pulling around him, and then on some sections he'd speed up just a bit so I was worried that if I passed him he would pass *me* again.

I tried to stay 10 feet back or so, so he wouldn't think I was trying to draft -- but maybe some of you would think that is wheel sucking?

So, I guess the companion complaint is -- if you *pass me,* then *pass me.* If you use up all your energy just trying to get around me and then slow down, I'm going to end up on your wheel all the way home.

I'd say see if you can burn them to the ground. Drop the hammer on them. If not, then just sit up and make them pass. Drink some water, enjoy the scenery and after a couple minutes, resume your pace.

It happens a few times a week where I riding home through Myrtle Edwards (to the trainyard path, then Ballard) and some dude drafts off of me. I consider it bad etiquette to randomly draft off of the guys who pass you. What's the deal with these guys? Sure, you had a long day, but I don't wanna hear you huffing behind me. At least ask. It happens during the Myrtle Edward portion, where there's plenty of room to pass (unlike the trainyard path). Man, I hate those guys.

Seriously get over yourself, or gtfo. be grateful you have company.

I had someone "draft" me last weekend. I had just passed them, looked behind me, and they were right behind me. I told them to GO AWAY, they passed and left. I don't need them making my ride more unsafe. If they have a problem with that, tough tiddlies for them.

20-30 ft, no problem. 5 ft is a problem for the reasons woodway put forth.


I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. 1 foot is drafting, 5 feet is not. Expecting riders behind you to stay 20ft or more back just isn't gong to happen. If you know someone is behind you, simply start using hand signals. I see this as part of our responsibility of sharing MUTs with other users, the same as calling out 'On your left'. If you truly think someone is being unsafe its likely that they simply don't know what they are doing. Take the time to educate them. My guess is that a high percentage of riders do not hang out on BF, belong to Cascade, etc. They will only learn what fellow cyclist teach them.

All that said, my personal favorite way of dealing with drafters is to make them take a turn at the front.

Do I know you?
It happens a few times a week where I am riding home through Myrtle Edwards and some dude has to show he is a racer boy. The problem is, as soon as racer boy passes me by just barely going a little faster than my cruising speed, he has to slow down right in front of me by 2 mph. Now I know that if I simply pass him by maintaining my speed, racer boy will do it again. I consider it bad etiquette to randomly pass and then immediately slow. So my solution is to draft racer boy for awhile, saving my energy while he is huffing and puffing. Then I just leave him in the dust most times, except for the one guy that turns off shortly after passing. For some reason, that guy always looks pissed. I thought cycling was fun, maybe he is just pissed cause he thought he would leave me in the dust after he slowed down. What's the deal with these guys? Sure, you had a long day, but I don't wanna hear you huffing ahead of me. If your going to pass, at least maintain the speed you passed me at. But Man, I love that guy, he is just funny getting pissed simply because he cannot drop me. If he were smart, he would just draft me until his turn. I guess he is not man enough for that.:p

For me the real question is *who* is drafting me. I had a few riders who do but when they come up they ASK FIRST, and are willing to take lead as well... those guys I dont mind at all. But woodway has a great point, if they arent seasoned riders or riders who really arent aware of surroundings they can mess you up if you needed to do a quick brake or fancy maneuver around some debris. It just all depends on the drafter.

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. 1 foot is drafting, 5 feet is not. Expecting riders behind you to stay 20ft or more back just isn't gong to happen.

I disagree with this statement. Five feet is not enough space if the front rider has to make an unexpected stop. Why push it clo close? Many (most?) riders (especially on a MUP) are unfamiliar with hand signals for drafting so expecting to get hand signals from someone that you do not know, that you have just ridden up behind, is asking for trouble. And finally, why isn't 20 feet going to happen? If you are riding the same speed as someone and don't intend to pass them, what is so hard about coasting for a few seconds to let a gap open up and then maintain a safe distance?

tranny yard? seriously? maybe they like you!

I disagree with this statement. Five feet is not enough space if the front rider has to make an unexpected stop. Why push it clo close? Many (most?) riders (especially on a MUP) are unfamiliar with hand signals for drafting so expecting to get hand signals from someone that you do not know, that you have just ridden up behind, is asking for trouble. And finally, why isn't 20 feet going to happen? If you are riding the same speed as someone and don't intend to pass them, what is so hard about coasting for a few seconds to let a gap open up and then maintain a safe distance?Then why do you pass the guy in the first place? You should just coast awhile and open up space rather than passing the guy. Besides, if you cross wheels, it is the guy behind that goes down. You are creating your own imaginary problem.

I agree with TLN. Sometimes all I'm looking for is a little holler to let me know. But maybe I should get over myself because clearly this is some egotistical problem I'm having. ;)

There's not a racing bone in my body and I'm not wearing an inch of spandex, so you can rest assured that serious riders blow pass me. The drafters in question are always sorta frumpy guys that may or may not be pear-shaped. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

The drafters in question are always sorta frumpy guys that may or may not be pear-shaped. Not that there's anything wrong with that.So you are whining about guys that do not even know what the term "drafting" means!:thumb:

I disagree with this statement. Five feet is not enough space if the front rider has to make an unexpected stop. Why push it clo close? Many (most?) riders (especially on a MUP) are unfamiliar with hand signals for drafting so expecting to get hand signals from someone that you do not know, that you have just ridden up behind, is asking for trouble. And finally, why isn't 20 feet going to happen? If you are riding the same speed as someone and don't intend to pass them, what is so hard about coasting for a few seconds to let a gap open up and then maintain a safe distance?

5-6 feet (~1 bike length) is the distance recommended for casual group rides. If you're paying attention to how the rider ahead is behaving and actively looking ahead and to the sides you should be able to react reasonably quickly. If you're staring at the back wheel of the rider ahead and something unexpected occurs, yes, you are likely going to crash. If you really are not comfortable with someone riding within 20 feet behind you, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. I would, however, argue it's your responsibility to slow down and stay right to allow people behind you to pass. Myrtle Edwards, SRT, BG, these are all busy trails at rush hour and on the weekends. There are simply too many users to designate a 20 foot bubble around each rider.

As for the hand signals, just because you don't know for certain that the person behind you knows them doesn't mean you shouldn't use them. They're the same signals drivers learn to use in a car and they are all pretty self-explanatory. I find myself using them even when the closest rider is 50+ feet back. I think this is part of being a responsible rider.

To be clear, I don't advocate sucking some stranger's wheel unannounced. But I do believe that a little tolerance and communication will go a lot farther than getting angry at a stranger who enjoys riding bikes just as I do.

in situations where I wind up following someone who is marginally slower than me and too fast to pass easily I have found it useful to upshift and get up off the saddle to jump past them and then settle back down to the gear I was in and resume my ride.

If you're having this problem, you're not going fast enough.

And if you're not going fast and someone is drafting you... then you must have a nice butt.

edit: one thing I've noticed since I started doing training/intervals is sometimes the timing of said interval can be awkward. Say I'm finishing up a 5-minute thrust with a sprint, and just happen to shoot by someone, then sit up and drink.

Or about to start an interval, so I'm going slow, and get passed. Then it's time to start said interval and end up chasing/passing whoever that just passed me. I just try to block others out, gotta focus.

http://dumpalink.com/videos/Why_women_enjoy_cycling-dhla.html

http://dumpalink.com/videos/Why_women_enjoy_cycling-dhla.html

Hmm, drafting off her would be problematic...too squirrely.

And if you're not going fast and someone is drafting you... then you must have a nice butt.

Or you're the size of a truck.
I'm not very fast, but all the randos wanna ride my wake.

I like my women squirrely :P never did like the mousey ones

Hmm, drafting off her would be problematic...too squirrely.Did anyone else notice that her saddle was too high, causing her hips to rock back and forth. Knee pain will follow soon.

yes! you can ell cuz her hips are rocking

Who Really cares, Life is short just ENJOY the ride.

Or you're the size of a truck.
I'm not very fast, but all the randos wanna ride my wake.

Now this is annoying...

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs454.snc3/26014_1390827895233_1368202239_1095296_3650583_n.jpg

Now this is annoying...

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs454.snc3/26014_1390827895233_1368202239_1095296_3650583_n.jpg
You can ride faster if you peddle with both legs. Dragging one foot, really has to be slow.

i think you need to expect wheelsuckers in crowded conditions. better a wheelsucker than an impatient motorist riding your wheel laying on the horn though.

15th has less wheelsuckers if myrtle edwards is intolerable. and the riding is not too bad now with the bus bike and rto lanes.... before it was a speedway, and no lane feels safely wide enough when the traffics doing 50! just tolerable. wheelsuckers on the shorepath is pleasant compared to how 15th used to be.

He's trying to push the bike to 88 mph.

Back to topic at hand. I hate when strangers draft off me. They could be experienced racers, or total posers with enough money to buy a nice road bike to impress friends with. The former is okay, the latter better stay away from my wheel. Trouble is I don't know which is which until the poser reveals himself by crashing into me. I had them draft me and their bike handling skills were scary to put it mildly.

Besides they don't let us draft in Ironmans. I'm supposed to ride alone.

i think you need to expect wheelsuckers in crowded conditions. better a wheelsucker than an impatient motorist riding your wheel laying on the horn though.

15th has less wheelsuckers if myrtle edwards is intolerable. and the riding is not too bad now with the bus bike and rto lanes.... before it was a speedway, and no lane feels safely wide enough when the traffics doing 50! just tolerable. wheelsuckers on the shorepath is pleasant compared to how 15th used to be.

Good point. I ride to work down 15th in the morning and it's pretty sweet: next to no buses and surprisingly few bikes and it saves me about 5 minutes. The Myrtle Edwards part is on the way home when there's no clock to punch. I might try 15th going home this week.

He's trying to push the bike to 88 mph.

Back to topic at hand. I hate when strangers draft off me. They could be experienced racers, or total posers with enough money to buy a nice road bike to impress friends with. The former is okay, the latter better stay away from my wheel. Trouble is I don't know which is which until the poser reveals himself by crashing into me. I had them draft me and their bike handling skills were scary to put it mildly.

Besides they don't let us draft in Ironmans. I'm supposed to ride alone.

If the guy/gal drafting you makes contact with your rear wheel, s/he's going down, not you.

If the guy/gal drafting you makes contact with your rear wheel, s/he's going down, not you.

You go ahead and keep believing that.

One of the worst accidents I've been in was during a race when a guy drafting me misjudged how I was going to take a turn. He clipped my rear wheel and we both went down at 20+ mph; unfortunately, me harder than him. An ambulance ride and 5 hours of ER docs putting my collarbone, arm and a few ribs back together says that if you get tagged just right, you're not staying up.

You go ahead and keep believing that.

One of the worst accidents I've been in was during a race when a guy drafting me misjudged how I was going to take a turn. He clipped my rear wheel and we both went down at 20+ mph; unfortunately, me harder than him. An ambulance ride and 5 hours of ER docs putting my collarbone, arm and a few ribs back together says that if you get tagged just right, you're not staying up.

OK, I stand corrected.

You go ahead and keep believing that.

One of the worst accidents I've been in was during a race when a guy drafting me misjudged how I was going to take a turn. He clipped my rear wheel and we both went down at 20+ mph; unfortunately, me harder than him. An ambulance ride and 5 hours of ER docs putting my collarbone, arm and a few ribs back together says that if you get tagged just right, you're not staying up.Bet he tried to cut the turn inside you, sliding out and took you with him. That is different than the wheel touch most here are taking about.

Bet he tried to cut the turn inside you, sliding out and took you with him.
:thumb:
Pretty close. He cut inside of me as we were heading into the turn and ended up with his front spokes around my rear derailleur. More 'flying' than sliding, until I hit the ground after going over the bars.

I've been wary of wheelsuckers ever since.

Twenty-five years ago I commuted between Davis, CA and Sacramento. One night my wife headed out from Davis to meet me on the bike path on the way home. She turned around and drafted "me" when "we" crossed paths. After a mile or so, the person she was drafting turned around and asked, "Are you lost?". Who would have thought there were two large men who had similar lighting systems (generator red and battery flashing amber rear and two headlights) on the same route at the same time? I guess this is not quite on-topic, since she really thought she had permission, but it gave us a good laugh at the time. Unfortunately, I never did see my twin on any occasion even though I bike-commuted there four days per week for many years.

^^^
Good thing there was no BFs back then. Otherwise the guy would have started flaming her as soon as he could get the computer started up.

If you don't know how to ride a pace line then maybe take up bowling...

If you don't know how to ride a pace line then maybe take up bowling...

Huh?

Not all of us are racer types. My road cycling is primarily commuting to/from work. I have zero interest in pacelining. So why would I need to know how to ride in one? Why would I even want to?

If you don't know how to ride a pace line then maybe take up bowling...

Put down the Shot Blox and step away from your PowerTap. We're talking about someone snagging an uninvited draft during a commute, not a Cat4 race.
We're lucky around here when half the people out on the regular commuter routes understand what it means when someone calls out "on your left", much less having any comprehension of paceline etiqutte. Heck, I understand pacelining just fine, but I don't want some potentially squirrely wheelsucker who saw a group of pros on the Versus Network over the weekend, thinking it's a good idea to sit six inches off my fender while tottering back and forth on his brand new, maladjusted aerobars. (See my previous comments in this thread as to why.)

Or maybe I can just shorten all that down to a similarly trollish one line retort:
"If you can't handle the headwind, GTF Off my wheel and HTFU."

If you don't know how to ride a pace line then maybe take up bowling...

HAHAHAHA!!!!

Son, did you ever swim 2.4 miles, ride 112, and then run a 26.2 mile marathon?

We don't paceline and don't know how to.

Shut up.