Spire
03-11-02, 07:08 AM
I hope this poll turns out right.
The idea is how do you make a left turn?
The idea is how do you make a left turn?
Commuting - Left Turn Lane
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JonR
03-11-02, 08:07 AM
...or a right turn, for those forum members who live in "left-side" driving countries. In other words, a turn across oncoming traffic.
I didn't check any of the boxes, because the approach varies depending on how the roads are set up.
If there's a dedicated cross-traffic turning lane, you should stay at the near edge of it and cross when traffic clears or the green arrow says to, or both. If there's a cross-traffic turning lane shared with vehicles going straight ahead, you get to the far edge of it and turn when it's safe. That gives straight-ahead traffic a chance to move past you while you wait to be able to turn.
But of course it's cool to dismount and walk across and then proceed and in extremely heavy traffic that might be best. Usually even at rush hour it's possible to just ride normally following the indications above.
I didn't check any of the boxes, because the approach varies depending on how the roads are set up.
If there's a dedicated cross-traffic turning lane, you should stay at the near edge of it and cross when traffic clears or the green arrow says to, or both. If there's a cross-traffic turning lane shared with vehicles going straight ahead, you get to the far edge of it and turn when it's safe. That gives straight-ahead traffic a chance to move past you while you wait to be able to turn.
But of course it's cool to dismount and walk across and then proceed and in extremely heavy traffic that might be best. Usually even at rush hour it's possible to just ride normally following the indications above.
LittleBigMan
03-11-02, 08:51 AM
Unless the situation is a rare and dangerous one, I always behave like I do when driving my car.
Once motorists get over their amazement that I would be in the lane at all, they are amazingly quick to understand exactly what I'm doing.
My strategy is, "be predictable."
Once motorists get over their amazement that I would be in the lane at all, they are amazingly quick to understand exactly what I'm doing.
My strategy is, "be predictable."
ljbike
03-11-02, 09:17 AM
Depending on traffic, I make left turns from the left lane.
In very heavy traffic, I usually dismount and cross on the green.
In heavy traffic many motorists are already on the edge of rage and will speed up to get through the intersection before we do, irregardless of rights or safety; so why put ourselves in harm's way.
In very heavy traffic, I usually dismount and cross on the green.
In heavy traffic many motorists are already on the edge of rage and will speed up to get through the intersection before we do, irregardless of rights or safety; so why put ourselves in harm's way.
MadCat
03-11-02, 09:53 AM
Once motorists get over their amazement that I would be in the lane at all, they are amazingly quick to understand exactly what I'm doing.
I find I get the strangest looks from motorists who are coming towards me while I'm waiting to turn left. They look at me like I'm an alien of some kind. Of course, in winter I do have a bit of an alien appearance. I want to snap a picture of some of these people.
Anyway, I try to use the left lane in most situations. I don't have the patience to go any other way though motorists who forget about green arrows drive me nuts and I don't have a decent horn to wake them up with.
I find I get the strangest looks from motorists who are coming towards me while I'm waiting to turn left. They look at me like I'm an alien of some kind. Of course, in winter I do have a bit of an alien appearance. I want to snap a picture of some of these people.
Anyway, I try to use the left lane in most situations. I don't have the patience to go any other way though motorists who forget about green arrows drive me nuts and I don't have a decent horn to wake them up with.
aturley
03-11-02, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by LittleBigMan
Unless the situation is a rare and dangerous one, I always behave like I do when driving my car.
Once motorists get over their amazement that I would be in the lane at all, they are amazingly quick to understand exactly what I'm doing.
My strategy is, "be predictable."
Agreed. The bike is a vehicle, so I treat it as one. I get a little nervous sometimes, because I have a left turn across a highway to get to work and I'm afraid somebody in a car will not be looking when they go into the turn lane and hit me from behind. But I figure that as long as I'm attentive I'll be fine.
andy
Unless the situation is a rare and dangerous one, I always behave like I do when driving my car.
Once motorists get over their amazement that I would be in the lane at all, they are amazingly quick to understand exactly what I'm doing.
My strategy is, "be predictable."
Agreed. The bike is a vehicle, so I treat it as one. I get a little nervous sometimes, because I have a left turn across a highway to get to work and I'm afraid somebody in a car will not be looking when they go into the turn lane and hit me from behind. But I figure that as long as I'm attentive I'll be fine.
andy
Dutchy
03-11-02, 05:36 PM
At turn right intersections I usually try to use the lights just like a car would. In peak hour traffic it is sometimes too busy to get across to the turning lane so I will do a "hook" turn. What this means is that will ride straight through the intersection, stop on the other side then turn my bike 90º clockwise and wait for the green light from that direction. The road rules here actually recommend this in such a situation, which tells me that someone in the transport department must ride bikes also.
I hope this is clear.
CHEERS.
Mark
I hope this is clear.
CHEERS.
Mark
John E
03-11-02, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Dutchy
At turn right intersections I usually try to use the lights just like a car would. In peak hour traffic it is sometimes too busy to get across to the turning lane so I will do a "hook" turn. What this means is that will ride straight through the intersection, stop on the other side then turn my bike 90º clockwise and wait for the green light from that direction.
I do precisely the same, but reversed for Napoleonic, instead of Roman, rules of the road. Yes, the answer depends heavily on traffic flow and roadway configuration. I also make a two-part turn if the traffic light timing at that intersection will permit me to complete both parts of the turn before I would get the next left arrow.
At turn right intersections I usually try to use the lights just like a car would. In peak hour traffic it is sometimes too busy to get across to the turning lane so I will do a "hook" turn. What this means is that will ride straight through the intersection, stop on the other side then turn my bike 90º clockwise and wait for the green light from that direction.
I do precisely the same, but reversed for Napoleonic, instead of Roman, rules of the road. Yes, the answer depends heavily on traffic flow and roadway configuration. I also make a two-part turn if the traffic light timing at that intersection will permit me to complete both parts of the turn before I would get the next left arrow.
LittleBigMan
03-11-02, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by aturley
...as long as I'm attentive I'll be fine.
Andy, this reminds me: I always signal and look back, then WAIT (this means pause, not stop) for an opening. Sometimes I look back TWICE just to be sure the alert driver is still making a space for me to merge left.
...as long as I'm attentive I'll be fine.
Andy, this reminds me: I always signal and look back, then WAIT (this means pause, not stop) for an opening. Sometimes I look back TWICE just to be sure the alert driver is still making a space for me to merge left.
aturley
03-12-02, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by LittleBigMan
Andy, this reminds me: I always signal and look back, then WAIT (this means pause, not stop) for an opening. Sometimes I look back TWICE just to be sure the alert driver is still making a space for me to merge left.
Oh, I definitely do that, too (sometimes I have to look back 9 or 10 times). Then I cross to the turn lane. That's where I get kind of worried, because I'm looking for a break in the oncoming traffic, so I'm not able to look for the guy who pulls into the turn lane behind me and "doesn't see me."
The human mind is a great pattern recognizer. People can basically set their brains up to look for certain patterns and let the concious mind go off and do other things unless it gets interrupted by the pattern matching part of the brain. The only problem is that when people are driving, the pattern that they are "looking" for is a car in front of them. I think this is why bikes don't even register on the road with most people. They honestly don't see us, because they aren't expecting us.
OK, just a theory, but from what I understand from reading a bit of Douglas Hofstader, I think there's some truth to it.
andy
Andy, this reminds me: I always signal and look back, then WAIT (this means pause, not stop) for an opening. Sometimes I look back TWICE just to be sure the alert driver is still making a space for me to merge left.
Oh, I definitely do that, too (sometimes I have to look back 9 or 10 times). Then I cross to the turn lane. That's where I get kind of worried, because I'm looking for a break in the oncoming traffic, so I'm not able to look for the guy who pulls into the turn lane behind me and "doesn't see me."
The human mind is a great pattern recognizer. People can basically set their brains up to look for certain patterns and let the concious mind go off and do other things unless it gets interrupted by the pattern matching part of the brain. The only problem is that when people are driving, the pattern that they are "looking" for is a car in front of them. I think this is why bikes don't even register on the road with most people. They honestly don't see us, because they aren't expecting us.
OK, just a theory, but from what I understand from reading a bit of Douglas Hofstader, I think there's some truth to it.
andy
JonR
03-12-02, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by aturley
The human mind is a great pattern recognizer. ... I think this is why bikes don't even register on the road with most people. They honestly don't see us, because they aren't expecting us.
I think you (and Mr. Hofstadter) are exactly right. Still, this is no excuse for not seeing a cyclist or pedestrian: patterns can be improved on, and should be. It's done through a process called awareness.
As for looking back (or around!), I do it all the way through the cross-traffic turn, head going like one of those doggies you used to see on cars' rear window ledges. Not only to see any possible threat (I hope) but to let drivers who see me know I'm alert.
The human mind is a great pattern recognizer. ... I think this is why bikes don't even register on the road with most people. They honestly don't see us, because they aren't expecting us.
I think you (and Mr. Hofstadter) are exactly right. Still, this is no excuse for not seeing a cyclist or pedestrian: patterns can be improved on, and should be. It's done through a process called awareness.
As for looking back (or around!), I do it all the way through the cross-traffic turn, head going like one of those doggies you used to see on cars' rear window ledges. Not only to see any possible threat (I hope) but to let drivers who see me know I'm alert.