Living Car Free - Changing Mindsets as it pertains to going Car-Free/Lite

Was just reading a couple of threads here, and thought I would share about my experience in becoming car-lite. I have been living in the city for a little over half a year now. When I first moved here, I started using my bicycle more than I had been before, but once I started working, I basically stopped. I was working in what everybody told me was the "rough" area of town. And at first, I believed the hype. The first few nights, I was afraid to even go to my car lest I get stabbed or something. So, there was no way I was going to bike over to that area of the city, especially at night!

Well, the desire to commute to work grew and grew, and the chance of me being moved to a different site that wasn't as rough was looking slimmer and slimmer. So, I finally started perusing the stats Canada website, looking at crime distribution maps, and I started realizing that, while where I work is a violent crime hot-spot, it does not take long to get out of the hot-spot by bike. Furthermore, as I talked about it with others, I started to realize that a lot of the violence is provoked, and occurs between people who know each other. The first time I tried riding there, I flatted, and was amazed at how many people stopped and asked if I needed help or needed a ride. I also enjoy just how frequently I encounter police cruisers in that area of town.

So, that was the first mind-set that had to be changed.

I think the second one was that it was too far to ride. Halfway across the city. But as I started examining maps, and learning about pedestrian walkways and other paths, I was able to really cut down on how far the commute was. Plus, the more I do it, the shorter it is starting to seem. Some of the intersections seem to arrive sooner and sooner.

Another mindset I had to break through was the mindset that it was just too cold (-30 Celsius some days). But after experimenting a bit, I have come up with a fairly fool-proof outfit that has kept me warm even in minus 30 (and that was after flatting twice in a night and waiting 1/2 an hour for a friend to come pick me up. It was only after half an hour of standing around not producing as much body heat that I started getting chilly).

Despite friends telling me that some of this was too dangerous or even a bad idea, I chose to persist, and broke some of these mindsets in order to succeed in using my car less and bike more. And as a result, even my one friend has started riding to work more.

So, I am curious, in your past or present journey towards car-free/lite, what mindsets have you had to overcome to get there?

Interesting. There are many mindsets like you describe.

Even cyclists have this kind of attitude:
- Not many people are presently biking or walking to their destinations. They probably never will.
- The US will never adopt a bicycle-friendly attitude like Holland or Denmark.
- Most people who ride their cars will never accept a non-car-centric lifestyle.

For me, oddly enough, the greatest challenge is my experience. When you are younger, you rely less on experience and more on imagination. As you grow older, you start seeing patterns all over the place. Many of these patterns are useful to survival, but then... mysteriously... things change and the patterns no longer works. You need to evolve. You need to ignore useless old saws.

I think the same mindsets as the OP. Besides thinking about the city as being more dangerous than it really is, I had thoughts that riding a bike in traffic is risky. And it is risky, but maybe no more risky than driving or walking. If you want to be safe you have to take a bus! They hardly ever crash.

As for being carfree, I had the mindset that people would look down on me if I didn't have a car. Maybe they do, but as long as my family members and good friends respect my choices, I don't care about everybody else.

Yes, I too had to fight the stigma at work that existed in my own mind. This was back in '93. I felt awkward being seen in the halls in my biking clothes at first. In those days most staff knew me (we've since merged with other organizations and have 4 times the personnel) and I knew everyone would be well aware I wasn't broke or cycling due to a DUI, but I thought they might see me as reckless or silly. However I have only had positive feedback (or no feedback) at work and I've long since stopped feeling self-conscious. If anything I'm now a little embarrassed if I don't ride, but not enough to worry about it.

I drove to work once in 2009, only because there was an off-site meeting in the afternoon not accessible any other way. It was actually a golf day, but I took a bike in the car and I biked on a trail instead of golfing. If it is the same place next year I may skip going to the office in the morning and may try to carry the bike part way to the golf course on the commuter train, and cycle the last few km. Depends on whether the schedule is favourable. So I'm still looking for ways to increase my bike commuting!

ps: Winter cycling in Saskatchewan? Brrrrrrrrrr!!!!

Good points have been brought up but I don't understand it completely. I ride when and where I want to and have never run into any troubles because awareness is key.

ps: Winter cycling in Saskatchewan? Brrrrrrrrrr!!!!

Only if you are not dressed right. Once I got the clothes figured out, it was warmer that taking the car (especially when my cars heat was broken).

Only if you are not dressed right. Once I got the clothes figured out, it was warmer that taking the car (especially when my cars heat was broken).

This has totally been my experience too. But many people have the mindset that a certain temperature is too cold for riding. One time a BF member from Hawaii posted on the Commuting forum that the weather was too cold for an early AM commute--"It goes down to the low 60s at the higher altitudes so I'm not riding right now." (serious)

I bet the two mindsets that stop the most people from cycling are "weather" and "traffic." And third is probably "I'm not fit enough."

To the OP, I completely understand. I also work in a "rough part of town" and by that I mean the zip code averages one murder per month, and an aggravated assault about every day based on the crime logs (and yes, I did look at them before I started bike commuting!). When I started working at this office a year ago, everyone was so worried about me on my bike. A year later, nothing has happened and if anything, I feel fairly safe because I see the same people every morning: the guy opening his corner store, the kids at the bus stop, the woman walking to the subway. I'm also biking through quickly and on a well-traveled street. I do worry about popping a flat in that area, but so far so good. *fingers crossed*

This has totally been my experience too. But many people have the mindset that a certain temperature is too cold for riding. One time a BF member from Hawaii posted on the Commuting forum that the weather was too cold for an early AM commute--"It goes down to the low 60s at the higher altitudes so I'm not riding right now." (serious)

I bet the two mindsets that stop the most people from cycling are "weather" and "traffic." And third is probably "I'm not fit enough."

I understand and agree that you have nailed the two most common reasons but high crime has to be a consideration for a family man. I once worked in Compton California and even today I would never ride to work in that area after dark.

But weather still has to be a consideration even if you do feel you have the right cloths. Face it we wouldn’t put up with the conditions some are suggesting as reasonable to ride in if we had to stay in that coolness all day while we worked. If we can’t work in those conditions why would we pretend commuting in them isn’t that bad? Can anyone imagine what would happen if an employer told his employees that to save money he was going to shut off the heat and they would simply have to dress warmer and it would be the same as a heated building? In our area we have to open the government shelters to the homeless when it gets cold at night. I don’t remember the temperature but I know it is well above freezing. There would be a national uproar if anyone said; all they need is the correct cloths. :rolleyes:
I do agree we give up on cycling far too easily but the weather conditions some people consider normal astonishes me. Bicycling Magazine lists Minneapolis as number one in their poll of the top bike friendly cities. Long beach got number 23. I would easily give up 22 spots not to have to put studs in my tires and dress like little Ralphie in Christmas story. :D I am glad some people do but they seem more like the Amish compared to me. Honorable lifestyle but nothing I would ever hope to aspire to. :eek:

I understand and agree that you have nailed the two most common reasons but high crime has to be a consideration for a family man. I once worked in Compton California and even today I would never ride to work in that area after dark.

But weather still has to be a consideration even if you do feel you have the right cloths. Face it we wouldn’t put up with the conditions some are suggesting as reasonable to ride in if we had to stay in that coolness all day while we worked. If we can’t work in those conditions why would we pretend commuting in them isn’t that bad? Can anyone imagine what would happen if an employer told his employees that to save money he was going to shut off the heat and they would simply have to dress warmer and it would be the same as a heated building? In our area we have to open the government shelters to the homeless when it gets cold at night. I don’t remember the temperature but I know it is well above freezing. There would be a national uproar if anyone said; all they need is the correct cloths. :rolleyes:
I do agree we give up on cycling far too easily but the weather conditions some people consider normal astonishes me. Bicycling Magazine lists Minneapolis as number one in their poll of the top bike friendly cities. Long beach got number 23. I would easily give up 22 spots not to have to put studs in my tires and dress like little Ralphie in Christmas story. :D I am glad some people do but they seem more like the Amish compared to me. Honorable lifestyle but nothing I would ever hope to aspire to. :eek:

Sorry, but you're wrong. A lot of people work in cold conditions. Cops come to mind right away, but there are dozens of outdoor occupations.

Believe it or not, many of us have even gone tent camping and hiking in very cold witner conditions, lived to tell about and even enjoyed it. It truly is the mindset that tells you you can't do it.

Sorry, but you're wrong. A lot of people work in cold conditions. Cops come to mind right away, but there are dozens of outdoor occupations.

Believe it or not, many of us have even gone tent camping and hiking in very cold witner conditions, lived to tell about and even enjoyed it. It truly is the mindset that tells you you can't do it.

Are you trying to say cold isn’t a consideration? Would you prefer to work in the cold? Would you prefer to live in the tent or would you prefer to live in a warm building? A preference is a consideration. Simply because some people can do it doesn’t mean it is desirable. And it doesn’t mean that all people have to do is try it and they will like it.
It is one thing to do what you have to do and it is another thing to do it if you don’t have to. I contend the excuse of it is too cold is a valid one if you have a choice even if someone else decides to choose differently. I may be over simplifying it but I will contend if the majority prefers warm to cold then deciding not to ride ones bike in the cold is a valid argument. There is no inherent sin to doing things the easy way if you can or any virtue in doing things the hard way just because you can.
So while I agreed you had a valid grasp of the reasons people give for not riding in the cold I doubt if in a survey more people would decide my objections to riding or working in freezing conditions is less desirable than working in a warm building or sleeping in a warm home. I also would bet more of your fellow citizens would agree with me it is more comfortable to ride in a warm vehicle than to ride in the freezing weather on a bike. And as I said in my post, it is a matter of ease and comfort as well.
It is more than what you can and can’t do, it is what is worth doing. While the mind my limit what you will try it can also tell you if trying it is worth it. Try it before you reject it is the same statement the heads would use in the 60s. Some things people simply know they will not like. I know for a fact what I do not like. I don’t need to experience some things to be sure.

Robert Foster, I don't think that your arguments are fair or valid. You seem to be saying that since living or working in the cold is undesirable and impractical, riding bike in the cold must be undesirable and impractical as well. But in the vast majority of work places or homes, one tends to do activities that do not involve a great deal of physical exertion (yes, there are some exceptions). So, if your such an environment was getting down below -20 or - 30 degrees, yes you would get cold even with layers (although, I have been plenty warm when my place is 15 degrees Celsius and have layers on). You would be getting cold because you are not physically exerting yourself enough to generate enough body heat to replace the heat being lost. On one of my first experimental rides to work, I had my tire flat twice on me at which point I gave up for the night and waited for a friend to come pick me up. It was AT LEAST minus 30 Celcius, and it was only after half an hour of just standing around that I started to get remotely chilly. Otherwise, if I am riding (and thus generating more body heat), I can stay warm (even downright HOT, which could result in being cold due to excessive sweat build up if I my commute were double or more what it is now) much longer. Also, most of us who commute to work don't work in a building that is cold. So even if we were to get a bit chilly in minus 30-40 degree whether, it is easy enough to warm up inside once you get to work.

At the end of the day, we are not pretending that riding in cold weather isn't bad: we that it isn't bad. Granted, there are different challenges to riding in the cold (the glasses fogging up can be annoying, and the higher rolling resistance of studded tires is a drag), but really, it's not horrible. I did it for a part of this winter, and I enjoyed it. Plus, I am starting to realize, one thing I like about colder weather is that it tends to keep the weirdo's indoors (and the paths free from pedestrians).

Hey, another mindset I had to overcome: Riding bike is an impractical alternative, and is too slow.


Anyway... Roody, I would be interested in hearing more about your winter camping experiences, or even winter camping in general. I may not be ready to try it just yet, but at some point in the near future, it could be a source of fun and entertainment.

Are you trying to say cold isn’t a consideration?

Of course the cold weather is a consideration but I subscribe to the spirit of the classic quote (and don't ask me who made it):


There's no such thing as bad weather just the wrong type of clothes

The start of the commute is always the worst prospect but by the time I've reached work or got home I'm usually feeling pretty toastie. But weather issues are the greatest mindset for new/non cyclisits or the people who we are trying entice out of their cars.

Another barrier to be broken down is distance. And this is all in the mind. It's funny looking back now but when I started using the bike again four years ago the idea of riding 15 to 22 miles from the SE of Glasgow to Paisley was a massive hurdle in my mind and it took another cyclist to show me that it was possible. Even though I don't bat an eyelid about putting in 60 miles on Saturday or feeling phased when undertaking the 100 this mindset is all too prevalent in those who do not cycle and is probably the biggest barrier that stops them from getting out their cars and 'giving it a go'. I get a lot of people telling me, 'It's such a long way'. but it's not really once the barrier is broken down.

So on the two points above 'the cold' and 'the distance' it's all about getting across the point that these challenges can be overcome. Eventually you WILL do the distance and not lose the ability to walk for a couple of days. Eventually you will sort out the cold/wet weather clothing and not get to work with borderline hypothermia with the feeling in your hands and feet returning when it's just about time to cycle home. Whilst trial and error will lead one to a suitable solution eventually, good old fashioned solid advice is the best and this is where BF really comes into it's own (I've learned so much already).

As far as cycling through the 'undesirable area' is concerned... I live in what many would consider an undesirable area and I've never been mugged, attacked, threatened or anthing. So I already have perspective on that issue but I have to spend time telling other people who ask, 'How can you live there' that the reality is different from the perception as you noted here:


Furthermore, as I talked about it with others, I started to realize that a lot of the violence is provoked, and occurs between people who know each other. The first time I tried riding there, I flatted, and was amazed at how many people stopped and asked if I needed help or needed a ride. I also enjoy just how frequently I encounter police cruisers in that area of town.

It's amazing isn't it. There are, without doubt, truly bad areas but, in my experience they are very very thin on the ground and even then.....

Breaking down some mindsets or perceptions can be quite tricky but one broken down people tend to adapt very very quickly. I used to be mindful of walking about in spandex too but after cycling everywhere four four years I'm quite happy about showing the ladies the results. Results that are down to all the effort of being car free. Results that in fact the ladies don't complain about (it's only the car driving blokes that do).

Hey, another mindset I had to overcome: Riding bike is an impractical alternative, and is too slow.

Absolutely.........another one of the 'biggies' to overcome. One can only lead by example. it can be impractical being car free but the practical alternatives to those perceived impracticalities (big word of the day) do not have to be car dependent.

As for being slow. Well i can still cut across town quicker than a car can. The extra twenty or so minutes taken to cycle a commuting distance is not time wasted as one is still undertaking physical activity. So it's not time wasted really.

Of course the cold weather is a consideration but I subscribe to the spirit of the classic quote (and don't ask me who made it):



The start of the commute is always the worst prospect but by the time I've reached work or got home I'm usually feeling pretty toastie. But weather issues are the greatest mindset for new/non cyclisits or the people who we are trying entice out of their cars.

Another barrier to be broken down is distance. And this is all in the mind. It's funny looking back now but when I started using the bike again four years ago the idea of riding 15 to 22 miles from the SE of Glasgow to Paisley was a massive hurdle in my mind and it took another cyclist to show me that it was possible. Even though I don't bat an eyelid about putting in 60 miles on Saturday or feeling phased when undertaking the 100 this mindset is all too prevalent in those who do not cycle and is probably the biggest barrier that stops them from getting out their cars and 'giving it a go'. I get a lot of people telling me, 'It's such a long way'. but it's not really once the barrier is broken down.

So on the two points above 'the cold' and 'the distance' it's all about getting across the point that these challenges can be overcome. Eventually you WILL do the distance and not lose the ability to walk for a couple of days. Eventually you will sort out the cold/wet weather clothing and not get to work with borderline hypothermia with the feeling in your hands and feet returning when it's just about time to cycle home. Whilst trial and error will lead one to a suitable solution eventually, good old fashioned solid advice is the best and this is where BF really comes into it's own (I've learned so much already).

As far as cycling through the 'undesirable area' is concerned... I live in what many would consider an undesirable area and I've never been mugged, attacked, threatened or anthing. So I already have perspective on that issue but I have to spend time telling other people who ask, 'How can you live there' that the reality is different from the perception as you noted here:



It's amazing isn't it. There are, without doubt, truly bad areas but, in my experience they are very very thin on the ground and even then.....

Breaking down some mindsets or perceptions can be quite tricky but one broken down people tend to adapt very very quickly. I used to be mindful of walking about in spandex too but after cycling everywhere four four years I'm quite happy about showing the ladies the results. Results that are down to all the effort of being car free. Results that in fact the ladies don't complain about (it's only the car driving blokes that do).


Good post and good point. But I never said once it couldn’t be done. That idea that someone would prefer a warn vehicle to a cold bicycle doesn’t mean the person making the choice hasn’t tried or considered the bicycle. We aren’t talking about humans that have never experienced the cold before as if discovering that someone can ride a bike if freezing weather will suddenly open their eyes to something new. We are talking about a modern society that has options and choices and a vast majority has already decided some options are more comfortable than others and there is no valid reason to be uncomfortable if you have a choice not to be.
If you already have a proclivity towards cycling and cold is all that is stopping you from enjoying that activity in the cold ice and snow there may be some truth in the statement that this is a mindset that has to be overcome. But for a vast majority of our fellow citizens this isn’t a mindset it is a decision made from experience, cold and wet is less preferable to warm and dry. I have lived in a cycled in the Seattle area and I can attest that cold and wet is not something you simply get used to. Tolerate maybe but get used to no.
This is simply my point of view and I didn’t say I didn’t believe a dedicated cyclist couldn’t ride in such weather. My point is a reasoning person doesn’t necessarily have a fixed mindset that only needs a push to prove it is false. They have weighed the comfort and practicality factors and determined which one is easier and more comfortable. Like my first post indicates, modern man prefers ease and comfort to hard and uncomfortable almost every time.

Good post and good point. But I never said once it couldn’t be done. That idea that someone would prefer a warn vehicle to a cold bicycle doesn’t mean the person making the choice hasn’t tried or considered the bicycle. We aren’t talking about humans that have never experienced the cold before as if discovering that someone can ride a bike if freezing weather will suddenly open their eyes to something new. We are talking about a modern society that has options and choices and a vast majority has already decided some options are more comfortable than others and there is no valid reason to be uncomfortable if you have a choice not to be.
If you already have a proclivity towards cycling and cold is all that is stopping you from enjoying that activity in the cold ice and snow there may be some truth in the statement that this is a mindset that has to be overcome. But for a vast majority of our fellow citizens this isn’t a mindset it is a decision made from experience, cold and wet is less preferable to warm and dry. I have lived in a cycled in the Seattle area and I can attest that cold and wet is not something you simply get used to. Tolerate maybe but get used to no.
This is simply my point of view and I didn’t say I didn’t believe a dedicated cyclist couldn’t ride in such weather. My point is a reasoning person doesn’t necessarily have a fixed mindset that only needs a push to prove it is false. They have weighed the comfort and practicality factors and determined which one is easier and more comfortable. Like my first post indicates, modern man prefers ease and comfort to hard and uncomfortable almost every time.

Problem is that ease and comfort is coming with a heart attack attached to it. I ride every day, and I often talk with my wife who drives. She knows I'm warmer. I'm warmer in the winter than she is, within the first 3 min of the ride. Her car doesn't even warm up till she's almost at her work. She drives due to time constraints, and her driving allows me to be car free, so it's a tradeoff.

Most people won't jump off a cliff, but they'll ride in their SUV's though that drivethrough right to Heart Attack land without thinking twice. Maybe easy isn't without it's own set of costs?

Joe

Believe it or not, many of us have even gone tent camping and hiking in very cold winter conditions, lived to tell about and even enjoyed it. It truly is the mindset that tells you you can't do it.

Yeah, it's kind of strange when you keep the beer in the cooler (without ice) so that it doesn't freeze, and you have to drink it fast once you open it before it freezes. ;)

Are you trying to say cold isn’t a consideration? Would you prefer to work in the cold? Would you prefer to live in the tent or would you prefer to live in a warm building? A preference is a consideration. Simply because some people can do it doesn’t mean it is desirable. And it doesn’t mean that all people have to do is try it and they will like it.
It is one thing to do what you have to do and it is another thing to do it if you don’t have to. I contend the excuse of it is too cold is a valid one if you have a choice even if someone else decides to choose differently. I may be over simplifying it but I will contend if the majority prefers warm to cold then deciding not to ride ones bike in the cold is a valid argument. There is no inherent sin to doing things the easy way if you can or any virtue in doing things the hard way just because you can.
So while I agreed you had a valid grasp of the reasons people give for not riding in the cold I doubt if in a survey more people would decide my objections to riding or working in freezing conditions is less desirable than working in a warm building or sleeping in a warm home. I also would bet more of your fellow citizens would agree with me it is more comfortable to ride in a warm vehicle than to ride in the freezing weather on a bike. And as I said in my post, it is a matter of ease and comfort as well.
It is more than what you can and can’t do, it is what is worth doing. While the mind my limit what you will try it can also tell you if trying it is worth it. Try it before you reject it is the same statement the heads would use in the 60s. Some things people simply know they will not like. I know for a fact what I do not like. I don’t need to experience some things to be sure.

All I'm saying is that people (human bodies) work well in cold weather. Native Americans in my area hunted in the winter wearing nothing but loin cloths. When they stopped moving around, they put on furs or blankets and sat by the fire.

I am also saying that I have never been cold in 7 years of winter cycling in Michigan (except I felt cold a few times in my first winter, before I learned the tricks of the trade of winter cycling). I'm also saying that as somebody who has actually tried winter cycling, I know what I'm talking about. You don't know what you're talking about. (Not meant in a mean way-- just a statement of fact, spoken to somebody who lives in Southern California.)

and who the hell is talking about living in a tent? I live in a house with central heating. I set the thermostat between 65 and 70 degrees and stay toasty warm. And who is talking about I have to do it? I do it because I want to do it, not because I have to do it. And believe me, I am neither a martyr nor a masochist. If I was cold or uncomfortable even one time, I would buy a car with a powerful heater and the heated seats.

Are you trying to say cold isn�t a consideration? Would you prefer to work in the cold? Would you prefer to live in the tent or would you prefer to live in a warm building? A preference is a consideration. Simply because some people can do it doesn�t mean it is desirable. And it doesn�t mean that all people have to do is try it and they will like it.
It is one thing to do what you have to do and it is another thing to do it if you don�t have to. I contend the excuse of it is too cold is a valid one if you have a choice even if someone else decides to choose differently. I may be over simplifying it but I will contend if the majority prefers warm to cold then deciding not to ride ones bike in the cold is a valid argument. There is no inherent sin to doing things the easy way if you can or any virtue in doing things the hard way just because you can.
So while I agreed you had a valid grasp of the reasons people give for not riding in the cold I doubt if in a survey more people would decide my objections to riding or working in freezing conditions is less desirable than working in a warm building or sleeping in a warm home. I also would bet more of your fellow citizens would agree with me it is more comfortable to ride in a warm vehicle than to ride in the freezing weather on a bike. And as I said in my post, it is a matter of ease and comfort as well.
It is more than what you can and can�t do, it is what is worth doing. While the mind my limit what you will try it can also tell you if trying it is worth it. Try it before you reject it is the same statement the heads would use in the 60s. Some things people simply know they will not like. I know for a fact what I do not like. I don�t need to experience some things to be sure.

I don't agree with your reasoning. I also live in Canada and we can have some serious winters around here. In winter I also have a choice between driving my 4x4 truck or riding my bike, and do you know what I do ? I choose to ride my bicycle and yes I am comfortable doing it. I also do recreational rides in winter, ice biking is a lot of fun. Cold has never stopped me from riding. Please tell me why do people go winter camping, nordic skiing ,snowshoeing, dog sledding, snowmobiling... why do some travel across the arctic , and what about ice fishing ????? You would be very surprised how little clothing is required to keep onself warm during winter cycling.

I'm not sure how much of my transition has been a change of mindset, but not as you describe. Six months ago i was relocated across country for my job, and I decided to use this as an opportunity to move to a car-lite lifestyle. I did not move my car with me, and I was somewhat paranoid about how I would survive without the car. I already used a bicycle to commute to/from work most of the time, but I also drove the car at least once per week for something. It is now 6 months since I have made the transition. Before moving, one of the things that I checked out was the locations of car rental locations, to make sure that I could get to a rental car via public transit or bicycle. I haven't made use of that yet.
One of the mindset changes for both my wife and I is that prior to the move, whenever we had to go somewhere, the basic assumption was that we would drive, and most of the time, that is what we did. Now we rarely drive, and the car is the last resort for transportation mode.

Good post and good point. But I never said once it couldn’t be done. That idea that someone would prefer a warn vehicle to a cold bicycle doesn’t mean the person making the choice hasn’t tried or considered the bicycle. We aren’t talking about humans that have never experienced the cold before as if discovering that someone can ride a bike if freezing weather will suddenly open their eyes to something new. We are talking about a modern society that has options and choices and a vast majority has already decided some options are more comfortable than others and there is no valid reason to be uncomfortable if you have a choice not to be.
If you already have a proclivity towards cycling and cold is all that is stopping you from enjoying that activity in the cold ice and snow there may be some truth in the statement that this is a mindset that has to be overcome. But for a vast majority of our fellow citizens this isn’t a mindset it is a decision made from experience, cold and wet is less preferable to warm and dry. I have lived in a cycled in the Seattle area and I can attest that cold and wet is not something you simply get used to. Tolerate maybe but get used to no.
This is simply my point of view and I didn’t say I didn’t believe a dedicated cyclist couldn’t ride in such weather. My point is a reasoning person doesn’t necessarily have a fixed mindset that only needs a push to prove it is false. They have weighed the comfort and practicality factors and determined which one is easier and more comfortable. Like my first post indicates, modern man prefers ease and comfort to hard and uncomfortable almost every time.

I understand that if there was a choice between walking and running people would still walk because running is far more uncomfortable. However, the fact that comfort over discomfort is the most popular option even though discomfort may pay HUGE dividends (a point alluded to by josephjhaney) would itself suggest a mindset or barrier. When discussing human nature there are no absolutes. 'Most people do A because they are B' could qualify as an absolute statement with the word 'Most' indicating there are some who exist outside of this absolute. Yet this does not make it right just because a majority of people think like this.


modern man prefers ease and comfort to hard and uncomfortable almost every time

I think this is inherently inaccurate as it is too much of a blanket statement. I would prefer to say:


the majority of people in our modern society prefer ease and comfort to hard and uncomfortable almost every time

And, as I said, just because the majority think this doesn't mean it's right. A majority of people may get put off by a spot of rain on their face but a few others may revel in the challenge of a 20mph headwind driving sub zero sleet into their faces whilst screaming 'I'M ALIVE!!!!!' at the top of their voice. between these two extremes you have all those that fit in between. You would suggest that the majority of our society exist at the 'spot of rain' end of the spectrum and I totally agree. But other demographics of varying sizes exist in between.

I'm going to bed.

I understand that if there was a choice between walking and running people would still walk because running is far more uncomfortable. However, the fact that comfort over discomfort is the most popular option even though discomfort may pay HUGE dividends (a point alluded to by josephjhaney) would itself suggest a mindset or barrier. When discussing human nature there are no absolutes. 'Most people do A because they are B' could qualify as an absolute statement with the word 'Most' indicating there are some who exist outside of this absolute. Yet this does not make it right just because a majority of people think like this.


I think this is inherently inaccurate as it is too much of a blanket statement. I would prefer to say:



And, as I said, just because the majority think this doesn't mean it's right. A majority of people may get put off by a spot of rain on their face but a few others may revel in the challenge of a 20mph headwind driving sub zero sleet into their faces whilst screaming 'I'M ALIVE!!!!!' at the top of their voice. between these two extremes you have all those that fit in between. You would suggest that the majority of our society exist at the 'spot of rain' end of the spectrum and I totally agree. But other demographics of varying sizes exist in between.

I'm going to bed.



You may have a point. But which group has a mindset and which group has the most influence on society? Which group has a mindset that represents the future we will live to see? I believe we can agree that cycling is a minority group. Living car free is a minority within that group and cycling in the snow and ice is a minority within that group. That is a lot of mindsets that need to be reset before it is even noticed.

You may have a point. But which group has a mindset and which group has the most influence on society? Which group has a mindset that represents the future we will live to see? I believe we can agree that cycling is a minority group. Living car free is a minority within that group and cycling in the snow and ice is a minority within that group. That is a lot of mindsets that need to be reset before it is even noticed.

True. However, 25 years ago most people (I believe... what I am about to say is based strictly on my own observations/experience. I have done no scientific studies or anything to support this, so there is a possibility that I am not entirely correct) had not heard about global warming. The idea that our lifestyle was hazardous to the environment was quite foreign. If they did know about it, they didn't really care, it was a far off problem. But there were scientists and activists who kept pressing the issue and gradually brought it into the public consciousness. All of a sudden, within the past 5-10 years there has been a shift in marketing and the like to promote "Green" or "Environmentally Friendly" (even if a lot of it is dubious in terms of environmental friendliness), which indicates a shift in the thinking of the public about the issue (because marketers want to appeal to the public). Now, there is still a lot of work to be done, but gradually the view/knowledge held by the minority is being disseminated into the consciousness of the majority. This generation shares a new mindset with the next generation, and some of them will catch that mindset, and pass it on to even more of the next generation (hopefully). And as a change in attitude/mindsets comes, change will happen more and more. It can be the same with cycling. Yes, the predominant mindset is one that scoffs at the idea of riding as an alternative mode of transport. But if enough of us live a cycling lifestyle, and show our friends and neighbours that it is not as hard or crazy as it initially seems, mindsets will gradually change. I get the impression that those mindsets are already starting to change, as is evidenced by some cities starting to invest more in cycling infrastructure.

As Mr. G. said: "Be the change..."

Good points have been brought up but I don't understand it completely. I ride when and where I want to and have never run into any troubles because awareness is key.


I understand and agree that you have nailed the two most common reasons but high crime has to be a consideration for a family man. I once worked in Compton California and even today I would never ride to work in that area after dark.

Compton is a small enough city to pass through at the blink of an eye. I don't understand why so many feel unsafe riding through when it is dark. I do it quite often as I feel a bit safer there than here in Long Beach because there are more commuters in a concentrated area so many in cars pay attention to this.

Almost any challenges that bike commuters face can be overcome if one has the will to do so. It's all about personal choices and strategies. Each person and their circumstances are different so it's impossible to give one universal advice and find one universal solution. Some people are more resourceful than others, more or less demanding, in different physical and mental shape, etc.

I know for sure that I'd rather be cold, wet (or hot and sweaty) and miserable but relaxed on a bike than stuck on crowded, stinky subway car somewhere 50 feet under the ground or waiting 40 minutes on a bus stop (for a crowded and stinky bus) or advance at 3mph in bumper-to-bumper traffic for an hour. Perhaps, if I lived in a rural area, 50 miles from work my mindset would have changed as my circumstances would be different.

True. However, 25 years ago most people (I believe... what I am about to say is based strictly on my own observations/experience. I have done no scientific studies or anything to support this, so there is a possibility that I am not entirely correct) had not heard about global warming. The idea that our lifestyle was hazardous to the environment was quite foreign. If they did know about it, they didn't really care, it was a far off problem. But there were scientists and activists who kept pressing the issue and gradually brought it into the public consciousness. All of a sudden, within the past 5-10 years there has been a shift in marketing and the like to promote "Green" or "Environmentally Friendly" (even if a lot of it is dubious in terms of environmental friendliness), which indicates a shift in the thinking of the public about the issue (because marketers want to appeal to the public). Now, there is still a lot of work to be done, but gradually the view/knowledge held by the minority is being disseminated into the consciousness of the majority. This generation shares a new mindset with the next generation, and some of them will catch that mindset, and pass it on to even more of the next generation (hopefully). And as a change in attitude/mindsets comes, change will happen more and more. It can be the same with cycling. Yes, the predominant mindset is one that scoffs at the idea of riding as an alternative mode of transport. But if enough of us live a cycling lifestyle, and show our friends and neighbours that it is not as hard or crazy as it initially seems, mindsets will gradually change. I get the impression that those mindsets are already starting to change, as is evidenced by some cities starting to invest more in cycling infrastructure.

As Mr. G. said: "Be the change..."




I understand the passion when the 1 or 2 percent see a slight improvement in the dialog the media or their fellow cyclists express. I have been to several green meetings where that passion is expressed. But for a realistic point of view, when 98 percent of the population is going in a different direction it is hard to see improvement. I am sure some were encouraged after the last election when it seemed as if the administration was going to be more eco friendly. However last week the administration has returned to the old “drill baby drill” programs we have had before. Last night on mainstream TV they announced that GM, Ford and Toyota had a 30+ percent increase in vehicle sales from last year. When the 90+ percent gets a 30+ percent increase it makes a far larger statement than when a few cyclist hear things are getting better. I just believe we wave the flag of victory far too often when in reality nothing much is changing.

I understand the passion when the 1 or 2 percent see a slight improvement in the dialog the media or their fellow cyclists express. I have been to several green meetings where that passion is expressed. But for a realistic point of view, when 98 percent of the population is going in a different direction it is hard to see improvement. I am sure some were encouraged after the last election when it seemed as if the administration was going to be more eco friendly. However last week the administration has returned to the old “drill baby drill” programs we have had before. Last night on mainstream TV they announced that GM, Ford and Toyota had a 30+ percent increase in vehicle sales from last year. When the 90+ percent gets a 30+ percent increase it makes a far larger statement than when a few cyclist hear things are getting better. I just believe we wave the flag of victory far too often when in reality nothing much is changing.
It certainly is way too early to wave any flags, but the desire to start changing so many facets of our lives from car-centric to people-centric is an achievable goal (depending on what the actual goals are...). A couple of things we might wish to see:
* a major increase in the infrastructure for bicycling and walking
* a decrease in the number of highways being built (as a solution to traffic congestion...)
* a recognition that people can live their lives without the 4-wheeled monster.

Those are probably "for starters". But are these even achievable?

If you ever get a chance to see a bunch of movies from the 70s and 80s, you'll notice that most workplaces permitted people to smoke and many smoked all through the day. Nowadays our mindset has changed and we view this in complete horror. Doesn't mean that smoking is outlawed completely, but it does means that you don't have to put up with your colleagues blowing smoke in your face all day.

How was this achieved? If I recall correctly, most people thought that banning smoking from the workplace and also restaurants and bars was infeasible. It would ruin business. People (smokers anyway...) wouldn't put up with it.

However, it was achieved. And we are all better for it. And if it wasn't for that visionary 2% who first wanted to get smoking out of their faces....

It certainly is way too early to wave any flags, but the desire to start changing so many facets of our lives from car-centric to people-centric is an achievable goal (depending on what the actual goals are...). A couple of things we might wish to see:
* a major increase in the infrastructure for bicycling and walking
* a decrease in the number of highways being built (as a solution to traffic congestion...)
* a recognition that people can live their lives without the 4-wheeled monster.

Those are probably "for starters". But are these even achievable?

If you ever get a chance to see a bunch of movies from the 70s and 80s, you'll notice that most workplaces permitted people to smoke and many smoked all through the day. Nowadays our mindset has changed and we view this in complete horror. Doesn't mean that smoking is outlawed completely, but it does means that you don't have to put up with your colleagues blowing smoke in your face all day.

How was this achieved? If I recall correctly, most people thought that banning smoking from the workplace and also restaurants and bars was infeasible. It would ruin business. People (smokers anyway...) wouldn't put up with it.

However, it was achieved. And we are all better for it. And if it wasn't for that visionary 2% who first wanted to get smoking out of their faces....

If you would like to equate smoking to car free I don’t think the Government gave the tobacco industry 38 billion in bailout funds. They didn’t have a pack of money for a pack of Cigarettes. And the president didn’t approve funding for off shore tobacco planting and exploration. They passed laws to restrict drug use in the US much earlier than the anti tobacco lobby and I don’t see drug use falling off to any great degree.
What is really happening as opposed to what we hope for? Mass transit is being cut in many major cities in the US. After two years of minus sales the Auto industry seems to be rebounding with 30+ percent increased sales while the bicycle industry still hasn’t posted greater sales than the peak adult bicycle sales of 1974.
Banning cigarettes didn’t require and alternative. There was simply smoking in a public place or not smoking in a public place. No one had to convince some to become a vegan rather than smoke. Trying to convince people that should give up driving in a warm vehicle to experience the joy of riding a bike in the snow and Ice is a lot different. I don’t think it will be done. And notice I didn’t say it couldn’t be done.

Trying to convince people that should give up driving in a warm vehicle to experience the joy of riding a bike in the snow and Ice is a lot different. [/FONT]

I was sold the first time I tried it. And to anyone who scoffed at that I'd say, "Don't knock it till you try it."

I realize the analogy between tobacco and car use is a little stretched. But there are some differences that might make you think demolishing the car infrastructure would be easier:
* tobacco is highly addictive; car-driving is merely a habit
* smoking tobacco is a fairly old human habit/tradition, having started I think in Elizabethan times in Europe (?); car driving has only been a habit for about 100 years.
* tobacco growing is an ancient industry with a strong political lobby; the automobile lobby seems like it is on its last legs; voters almost told them to take a hike when they wanted a bailout (imagine what that would have done for the automobile infrastructure!)

Maybe this is a stretch. But just try watching one of those movies from the 1970s where everyone is smoking like a tilt. Seems like we have come a long ways in 25 years.

I don't see why we couldn't change a few mindsets in the the coming 25.

I was sold the first time I tried it. And to anyone who scoffed at that I'd say, "Don't knock it till you try it."

I realize the analogy between tobacco and car use is a little stretched. But there are some differences that might make you think demolishing the car infrastructure would be easier:
* tobacco is highly addictive; car-driving is merely a habit
* smoking tobacco is a fairly old human habit/tradition, having started I think in Elizabethan times in Europe (?); car driving has only been a habit for about 100 years.
* tobacco growing is an ancient industry with a strong political lobby; the automobile lobby seems like is it only its last legs; voters almost told them to take a hike when they wanted a bailout (imagine what that would have done for the automobile infrastructure!)

Maybe this is a stretch. But just try watching one of those movies from the 1970s where everyone is smoking like a tilt. Seems like we have come a long ways in 25 years.

I don't see why we couldn't change a few mindsets in the the coming 25.

Where we disagree is in the impact that change will have.
I am a big fan of film Noir and some foreign films today. So I realize the difference in films even between here and Europe both in regards to smoking and to some extent drinking. That being said cars are more of an improvement in transportation not a habit. We disagree as much from ideology as we may from experience. I travel a lot during the late spring and summer. In the early spring I don’t see a lot of Cyclists on the road in states like North and South Dakota or even northern Wyoming. By the way I have tried cycling in Seattle, Bellevue and Bellingham in the rain and sleet and to be honest it wasn’t at all pleasant. So I am not sure why Portland has done so well. I do take a bike or two with me everywhere I go except in other countries.
Looking at world events I predict China and India will move into first world auto production in the next 25 years. I see some kind of alternative power replacing petroleum in the US. Whatever we drive or use to get from point A to point B will be protected from the weather.
I don’t see people looking at someone riding a bicycle in freezing icy weather and slapping themselves on the forehead and saying, “Ah ha I should have thought of that.” This isn’t a mindset if people knew about the alternative and rejected it for reasons of comfort or ease. People know it is possible but they would rather not do it. Or to be more polite a majority of people would rather not do it. Bicycles were never in the process of replacing horses when the car was invented. They will not replace the car now if they have any other option. I believe more people could see themselves being transported like the Amish before they could see themselves as cyclists if they didn't have a car. Cycling was skipped over by our society once as a major form of transportation I question the idea that a change of mindset will make them more acceptable today or tomorrow.

I don�t see people looking at someone riding a bicycle in freezing icy weather and slapping themselves on the forehead and saying, �Ah ha I should have thought of that.�

True. Actually, the first time I saw people commuting in minus 30 weather (about 4 years ago), whilst I had some desire to be that hard core (Pretty much since the time I joined these forums I have had the desire to live a cycling lifestyle) it seemed too cold and unpleasant. I thought "they must be absolutely freezing!" But now I know that these folks would not have been cold, even though they were not wearing parkas.


In regards to the whole smoking thing, I think that banning smoking vs. banning cars may be two different kettles of fish. Our economy is not built upon smoking. Taxes from smokes may help the economy a bit(although in Canada, that may be negated by the drain on the health care system posed by smokers), but otherwise we wouldn't notice a huge different in our day to day lives if smokes were banned overnight (aside from grouchy people going through withdrawls, and maybe some rioting, but that is beside the point). Now, the way the economy/peoples lives are set up right now, it would have huge repercussions to remove the automobile all of a sudden, because so many facets of day to day life/daily business operations are built upon the automobile (yes, if people could get past their perceived need for the automobile to do much of what they do, we could carry on, but in all likelyhood, many would not get past this auto-dependent mindset). My point is, getting smoke out of the work place is easy because we do not depend upon it. Getting rid of cars is more difficult because we have chosen to depend on them.

On the other hand, maybe these two are not so dissimilar. Smoking, it has been demonstrated, is detrimental to everyones health (1st & 2nd hand smoke... and now some studies say even 3rd hand smoke). So, the government had solid backing to ban smoking in certain places, for the health of everyone (particularly non-smokers). Perhaps if we are to see a mandatory reduction in car use, it will be on the basis of health. After all, the North American lifestyle tends to be a rather sedentary one, and the automobile really lends itself to that. Not only that, but the emissions of current automotive technology tend to be less than healthy for ones respiratory system (although, if we transition to electric, and get more clean electricity, this will become a non-issue). Therefore, it is conceivable that if enough public awareness was raised and enough people came to understand the car as being inherently unhealthy because it takes what would historically be a time of physical exertion/exercise (ie, walking to work, or walking to the market - I doubt most people in ancient cities would have used horses to get around) and turned it into a time of physical non-exertion/non-exercise that progress could be made in mandating reduced car usage. If the health of our nations is truly an important issue to our governments, then perhaps someday this will be the basis upon which restrictions are placed upon automobiles. Perhaps it may even be a useful basis to approach the issue on when talking about it with other people. To be honest, if I did not ride my bicycle, I would probably have just kept gaining weight right now (but environmental impact/sustainability and financial savings are also pretty big motivators for me).

In regards to the whole smoking thing, I think that banning smoking vs. banning cars may be two different kettles of fish

AYE!!!!


Getting rid of cars is more difficult because we have chosen to depend on them.

You hit the proverbial nail on the head with this one, Sir. This is the fundamental issue which is at the heart of convincing people 'car-lite' is a viable alternative for the masses. The car is not an aspect of our society it is one of the core foundations on which people in this society base their lives on. A good example of this dependence is.....

A pal of mine had to renew his vehicle excises duty (car tax). The post office was approximately one mile away. The post office closed at midday and he messed about until about 11.30am at which time he jumped into the car to make the journey. he turned the key and found he had a flat battery. Now...here's the moment which defines this car dependence. Instead of just walking the mile to the post office and getting the job done he got his neighbour involved, borrowed their jump leads and, with their help, got the car started. By the time he made it to the post office it was closed.

As I said, the car is not an aspect of our society it is one of the core foundations on which people in this society base their lives on ergo take it away and the house of cards collapses. If the petrol ran dry tomorrow wholesale panic WOULD take hold. People would NOt know what to do. The car is worse than drug addiction. With drug addiction the user is always aware (though not always willing to admit) that what they are doing is wrong or detrimental. Sometimes the blinkers come off and they even see what impact they are having on their immediate family and even society (4 years working with recovering addicts with the Salvation Army) but with car users the blinkers NEVER come off. If we're all so aware of the environmental issues associated with car use the why do I still see thousand of cars each with a single occupant every day?

The majority of society just DONT CARE. They like to think they do and then they just go and turn the key. I'm convinced our society has gone down the wrong road but a) I'm in the minute minority, b) it's too late to select the reverse gear as none of our politicians have a spine for the challenge (and they know it's a vote loser) and the vast vast vast majority of people just don't care. You can't say that people don't know the facts....the fact is they just don't want to do anything about it because the shiny four wheeled planet killer in the driveway is really where their heart is.

Car use isn't just a mindset anymore.......it goes way deeper than that.


To be honest, if I did not ride my bicycle, I would probably have just kept gaining weight right now (but environmental impact/sustainability and financial savings are also pretty big motivators for me).

Bike riding = bring on MORE cake.

It sounds like we're on the same page Sir.

Going car light or car-free doesn't just have to be about biking. It’s also about walking and public transit. In my city there is massive new downtown development, fueled in large part by empty nesters moving back from the burbs, to be close to jobs and also healthcare and services, and by their own kids just starting out and wanting a hip downtown lifestyle. Lots of these people are reducing their car ownership from one per person, to one per household and some are going car free. I’ve been bike commuting for almost 20 years and there are far more bikes than there used to be, and far more public transit users too. And lots of people on foot. Of course, the young singles might then marry, have kids and move back to the burbs, but it remains to be seen if the trend will be as large as for the previous generation, depending in part on gasoline costs, and in part on how child-friendly the downtown condos turn out to be. Even in the outlying areas, the most publicized trend for new building is “new urbanism” where houses are closer together and clustered around nodes of shops and services and commuter train stations, echoing the traditional small town main street.

And of course, this is not new. People thrived for millenia without either cars or bikes. City dwellers lived in dense clusters near factories and shops and offices and could walk everywhere they needed to, and in the 19th century at least, could commute on horse drawn trams. People didn't leave town as much as we do now, but inter-city and international travel was possible by train, stagecoach and steamship. Rural folk lived where they worked too, but also had the same options to travel. You might go into a city once a week, or once a month or once a year depending on how far out you lived, but there was probably a small town within easy walking distance and each one had all the amenities the locals needed - a pub, a general store, a blacksmith, etc.

Cars opened up a lot of possibilities for people - to see the country, shop, and commute to work over much greater distances than they had before. They also seemed to clean up cities as they got rid of a lot of horse poop. Of course they are far dirtier in the end but they put their poop in the air where we don’t see it at first. Over time they have led us to re-engineer our cities and towns to support a car-dependent lifetyle. Now, it’s not that easy for many people to get by without them, and it won’t happen suddenly, but the experience here seems to show society is gradually shifting back to the older model. And there is positive feedback to help move it along. The more people who re-urbanize, the more services and amenities there are to support it, and the more feasible and attractive it becomes to those who are thinking about it.

You can see some of the downtown development I mentioned if you compare the Toronto waterfront today (left) with a 1996 postcard (right). Dozens of condo towers have sprung up in the vicinity of CN tower and domed stadium (was Skydome, now call the Rogers Centre) in recent years. Those residents don't actually need to drive to work or shop if they don't want to.

In fact in many cases, downtown residences are connected to a network of underground and overhead walkways and the subway system so you can go for miles without going outside.

You can see some of the downtown development I mentioned if you compare the Toronto waterfront today (left) with a 1996 postcard (right). Dozens of condo towers have sprung up in the vicinity of CN tower and domed stadium (was Skydome, now call the Rogers Centre) in recent years. Those residents don't actually need to drive to work or shop if they don't want to.

In fact in many cases, downtown residences are connected to a network of underground and overhead walkways and the subway system so you can go for miles without going outside.

Interesting. I'm originally from St. John's and, in the years I have been away, I have been amazed at how many people have given up the idea of a house in the suburb and have decided to move into a condominium. In fact, it seems like anyone who can afford it is moving downtown. Many old couple do it, but it is immensely popular with the young people too, who like the bar and cafe scene.

I don't see a whole lot of this is Des Moines. It seems like here the trend is to renovate older homes... Perhaps when all those are taken up, we'll see the same explosion of denser housing units.

Getting rid of cars is more difficult because we have chosen to depend on them.


Part of the problem with this discussion is defining the goal, as Cooker points out above. If we were doing actual planning, we would set some short term and then some long term goals. A short term goal for a city might to be increase the number of biking or walking trips by 10%.... perhaps through an education initiative. A long term goal might be to do the type of urban planning where a city touts the advantage of densely populated housing and encourages developers in this direction.

In my smoking analogy, this would be equivalent to banning workplace smoking in an effort to achieve a long term goal of reducing the societal burden of caring for lung cancer patients.

In both cases, we don't ban either smoking or cars... but the net effect would discourage both.

Part of the problem with this discussion is defining the goal, as Cooker points out above. If we were doing actual planning, we would set some short term and then some long term goals. A short term goal for a city might to be increase the number of biking or walking trips by 10%.... perhaps through an education initiative. A long term goal might be to do the type of urban planning where a city touts the advantage of densely populated housing and encourages developers in this direction.

In my smoking analogy, this would be equivalent to banning workplace smoking in an effort to achieve a long term goal of reducing the societal burden of caring for lung cancer patients.

In both cases, we don't ban either smoking or cars... but the net effect would discourage both.

I think simply identifying and eliminating hidden and overt taxpayer incentives to live in the suburbs would go a long way. Society is shaped in part by developers and constructions companies who lobby politicians to spend money on highways and sewers so they can sell houses at the end of the road or pipe. Then income and property taxes are structured so that the people who don't require miles of higway and plumbing maintenance end up helping pay for those who do. Fix those corrupting influences and people will prefer to live downtown - it will be much cheaper. Those who want to live in outlying areas and pay their full costs are welcome to do so.

AYE!!!!



You hit the proverbial nail on the head with this one, Sir. This is the fundamental issue which is at the heart of convincing people 'car-lite' is a viable alternative for the masses. The car is not an aspect of our society it is one of the core foundations on which people in this society base their lives on. A good example of this dependence is.....

A pal of mine had to renew his vehicle excises duty (car tax). The post office was approximately one mile away. The post office closed at midday and he messed about until about 11.30am at which time he jumped into the car to make the journey. he turned the key and found he had a flat battery. Now...here's the moment which defines this car dependence. Instead of just walking the mile to the post office and getting the job done he got his neighbour involved, borrowed their jump leads and, with their help, got the car started. By the time he made it to the post office it was closed.

As I said, the car is not an aspect of our society it is one of the core foundations on which people in this society base their lives on ergo take it away and the house of cards collapses. If the petrol ran dry tomorrow wholesale panic WOULD take hold. People would NOt know what to do. The car is worse than drug addiction. With drug addiction the user is always aware (though not always willing to admit) that what they are doing is wrong or detrimental. Sometimes the blinkers come off and they even see what impact they are having on their immediate family and even society (4 years working with recovering addicts with the Salvation Army) but with car users the blinkers NEVER come off. If we're all so aware of the environmental issues associated with car use the why do I still see thousand of cars each with a single occupant every day?

The majority of society just DONT CARE. They like to think they do and then they just go and turn the key. I'm convinced our society has gone down the wrong road but a) I'm in the minute minority, b) it's too late to select the reverse gear as none of our politicians have a spine for the challenge (and they know it's a vote loser) and the vast vast vast majority of people just don't care. You can't say that people don't know the facts....the fact is they just don't want to do anything about it because the shiny four wheeled planet killer in the driveway is really where their heart is.

Car use isn't just a mindset anymore.......it goes way deeper than that.



Bike riding = bring on MORE cake.

It sounds like we're on the same page Sir.

I agree it isn’t a mindset it is an attitude of preference where one option is rejected because people aren’t interested. As you said they don’t care. Two years of slumping cars sales hasn’t changed that if we see what was posted by the auto industry the first quarter. 30+ percent increase for GM, Ford, and Toyota. The Job market hasn’t improved and housing dropped a bit last month yet the consumers have started to return to the showrooms and the cars haven’t changed yet. Public transportation is being cut and drivers are being laid off. No a supposition but a reality. So yes car free is more than cycling but the options are getting more limited and places like Atlanta are still growing and downtown Detroit is still shrinking. While Suburbia may not be growing as it once did urban sprawl doesn’t seem to be slowing down. So Car sales are up, Mass transit is being cut and cycle sales are not as high as they were in 1974. China who was once almost bicycle centric bought more personal cars at the end of 2009 than the US and both China and India are now building and exporting cars. The government has decided to invest heavily in oil drilling in areas that were protected before and the tax payer owns part of GM. My guess is the status quo is perfectly safe for the next 50 years. And people still will not care. All that can be done is people that want to cycle can cycle but people aren’t making McDonalds’ popular because they are worried about being healthy.

My guess is the status quo is perfectly safe for the next 50 years. I can guarantee it won't last 50 years. People's preferences can't change reality. Oil is on it's way down. We (including you with your own reduced car use) are the vanguard of a societal change that most people have no clue is upon them. What we're seeing with the apparent rebound of the auto industry and the scavenging of small pots of drillable oil, is the dead cat bounce of the petroleum era.

I can guarantee it won't last 50 years. People's preferences can't change reality. Oil is on it's way down. We (including you with your own reduced car use) are the vanguard of a societal change that most people have no clue is upon them. What we're seeing with the apparent rebound of the auto industry and the scavenging of small pots of drillable oil, is the dead cat bounce of the petroleum era.

Oil has ben on its way down if you listen to some for more than 30 years and yet the car culture has grown during that period. Now prople are predicting the suburbs are dead and big cities are on their way back. But studies don't all point in that direction. In fact big cities arn't the fastest growing areas at least in the US. Maybe I should say some studies would indicate they aren't. http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/jan2010/bw20100127_033961.htm The article seems rather balanced talking about why people stay close to urban centers but it also points out what Buisness Week think will happen if the economy improves.

If we survive this economy I predict people will go back to what they were doing prior to the crash and that includes a car centric lifestyle. But we will be able to see how this trend goes in the next five years and have even more indicators.

Are you trying to say cold isn’t a consideration? Would you prefer to work in the cold? Would you prefer to live in the tent or would you prefer to live in a warm building? A preference is a consideration. Simply because some people can do it doesn’t mean it is desirable. And it doesn’t mean that all people have to do is try it and they will like it. Dude, you seriously need to quit reading between the lines....
It is one thing to do what you have to do and it is another thing to do it if you don’t have to. I contend the excuse of it is too cold is a valid one if you have a choice even if someone else decides to choose differently. I may be over simplifying it but I will contend if the majority prefers warm to cold then deciding not to ride ones bike in the cold is a valid argument. There is no inherent sin to doing things the easy way if you can or any virtue in doing things the hard way just because you can.What is being said is that one's mental attitude has a lot to do with how much they can endure before saying, "Forget this!" Some people actually enjoy testing their limits in all sorts of different ways -- I have a bud who dumps icewater over his body, outside, in the winter, to ramp up his metabolism.
So while I agreed you had a valid grasp of the reasons people give for not riding in the cold I doubt if in a survey more people would decide my objections to riding or working in freezing conditions is less desirable than working in a warm building or sleeping in a warm home. I also would bet more of your fellow citizens would agree with me it is more comfortable to ride in a warm vehicle than to ride in the freezing weather on a bike. And as I said in my post, it is a matter of ease and comfort as well. If comfort is your overriding consideration, what are you doing on a bike?
It is more than what you can and can’t do, it is what is worth doing. While the mind my limit what you will try it can also tell you if trying it is worth it. Try it before you reject it is the same statement the heads would use in the 60s. Some things people simply know they will not like. I know for a fact what I do not like. I don’t need to experience some things to be sure.The 'heads' in the 60's weren't the only ones to have that mindset -- Teddy Roosevelt did, too; something to the effect of "those who dare to fail, and fail greatly, taste more life than those who never try."

Added my answers within the quote; suffice it to say that 'the easy way out' doesn't work for a lot of us, Robert.

Oil has ben on its way down if you listen to some for more than 30 years and yet the car culture has grown during that period. Now prople are predicting the suburbs are dead and big cities are on their way back. But studies don't all point in that direction. In fact big cities arn't the fastest growing areas at least in the US. Maybe I should say some studies would indicate they aren't. http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/jan2010/bw20100127_033961.htm The article seems rather balanced talking about why people stay close to urban centers but it also points out what Buisness Week think will happen if the economy improves.

If we survive this economy I predict people will go back to what they were doing prior to the crash and that includes a car centric lifestyle. But we will be able to see how this trend goes in the next five years and have even more indicators.

I think you're probably right about this. Most people don't seem to be inclined to give up cars anytime soon, and dire predictions of peak oil are probably exaggerated. But people might be forced to give up the "car centric lifestyle" within the next 10 to 30 years. People will probably need to find shorter commutes, turn to much smaller and more efficient cars, and replace many or most car trips with other modes.

Global warming is the main factor, IMO. The economic and lifestyle impact of severe weather, drought and rising sea levels will be much greater than the impact of even a sudden loss of petroleum supplies.

To answer the original question, when people see me on the bike they ask how I cope with rough weather and they ask about safety.

When I mention that I've got good rain gear, that I can get studded tires for winter and that I've ridden in -30 and colder when I lived in Winnipeg and in Saskatchewan, all the weather arguments seem to vanish.

That leaves safety. I'm in a place with an exceptionally low crime rate, but the concern is about what happens if I fall or if I'm hit. I average around 6,000 kilometres of cycling a year, from rides around town to multi-day tours. I might have one or two moments in a year when I'm a little concerned about safety, and those are when I'm on exceptionally busy highways or in big-city rush hour traffic. Otherwise, it's not a problem. Riding in urban areas after dark is not a problem either, provided I have a front and rear light on the bike and provided I pay attention to the conditions around me.

Once those two topics are covered, there's a sigh and the person makes a comment about not being in shape for cycling. But cycling isn't about brute strength or marathon-level endurance. More importantly, it's a lot more fun to walk or to cycle than it is to drive.

I know I can't convince people to take up cycling or to go car-free or car-light, but maybe some of them will notice me on the bike, ask a few questions and start to think about what I'm doing.

I know I can't convince people to take up cycling or to go car-free or car-light, but maybe some of them will notice me on the bike, ask a few questions and start to think about what I'm doing.

That's the answer to the original question. You're a living, riding advertisement for the changing mindset. If even only two or three people are influenced by your example, you've made an enormous contribution to the evolution of the human species.