Foo - It's Over

The 2009/2010 Heating Season I mean. We used about 850 gallons. That's down from 1100 last winter (colder winter), 1500+ in previous winters, thanks to our Green Mt. Doom program with the new Energy Kinetics way efficient boiler and the Armstrong heat pump. We didn't have that heat pump last winter, I think it knocked down the heating oil another 20% or so.

That's not a lot of heating oil for a 4200 sf house. So I think we're getting our money's worth from this new gear. The last thing we could do (short of going geothermal) is spray foam insulation in the attic, but that would cost $4K and would only save another 150-200 gallons tops. Not worth that cost for the incremental savings. But that would bring us down into the 600-700 gallon range.

A full (upstairs two zones, basement still on baseboard from the old boiler) geothermal system would have dropped us down to 300-400 gallons (we'd still have used the boiler for hot water and to heat the basement zone where my office is located). So I think we're essentially there. 400+ gallons more than we'd use with a full geothermal conversion, @ half the capital outlay ($20K vs. $40K). Even @ $4 per gallon, that's only a difference each year of about $1500 in heating costs between this set up and geothermal

For new construction or a major renovation, geothermal is a total no-brainer. Fascinating technology, and it works. Harnesses the 50º air temps underground to run heat pumps that are indoors to heat and cool your house very efficiently. Once you're using 50º air, the SEER ratings of heat pumps start going up over 20 (our current air to air heat pump has a SEER rating of 15 or 16) and they don't use so much power.

sir, i believe that you're lost.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/botto/foo.jpg

Oops, this was supposed to be in foo, mods please move it.

sir, i believe that you're lost.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/botto/foo.jpg

Sorry, you are correct.

It is keeping my bicycles warmer. There. Road cycling content.

I still put the heat on in the morning

We had by far the longest, coldest, and wettest winter of the 14 I've lived through South Carolina.

I don't think it's over.

Are there even mods on this board anymore?

we're doing a remodel now on a new house we bought (new only to us). Thought about geo-thermal, but as the new house is at 4800 feet elevation on the top of a mountain, there was no way to lay out a geo system, so vertical was the only option. any idea how expensive it is to go geothermal with the lines laid out vertically? Prohibitively.

we went with a hybrid gas-heat pump. should work well up there. all new insulated windows, blown in insulation, etc. Possibly a home wind turbine later as the winds up there can be tremendous, but are usually very consistent. solar is also an option, but for now with a complete gut job, I just want to get it done and move in. Add ons will have to wait.

im glad that all this makes sense to you

The 2009/2010 Heating Season I mean. We used about 850 gallons. That's down from 1100 last winter (colder winter), 1500+ in previous winters, thanks to our Green Mt. Doom program with the new Energy Kinetics way efficient boiler and the Armstrong heat pump. We didn't have that heat pump last winter, I think it knocked down the heating oil another 20% or so.

That's not a lot of heating oil for a 4200 sf house. So I think we're getting our money's worth from this new gear. The last thing we could do (short of going geothermal) is spray foam insulation in the attic, but that would cost $4K and would only save another 150-200 gallons tops. Not worth that cost for the incremental savings. But that would bring us down into the 600-700 gallon range.

A full (upstairs two zones, basement still on baseboard from the old boiler) geothermal system would have dropped us down to 300-400 gallons (we'd still have used the boiler for hot water and to heat the basement zone where my office is located). So I think we're essentially there. 400+ gallons more than we'd use with a full geothermal conversion, @ half the capital outlay ($20K vs. $40K). Even @ $4 per gallon, that's only a difference each year of about $1500 in heating costs between this set up and geothermal

For new construction or a major renovation, geothermal is a total no-brainer. Fascinating technology, and it works. Harnesses the 50º air temps underground to run heat pumps that are indoors to heat and cool your house very efficiently. Once you're using 50º air, the SEER ratings of heat pumps start going up over 20 (our current air to air heat pump has a SEER rating of 15 or 16) and they don't use so much power.


we're doing a remodel now on a new house we bought (new only to us). Thought about geo-thermal, but as the new house is at 4800 feet elevation on the top of a mountain, there was no way to lay out a geo system, so vertical was the only option. any idea how expensive it is to go geothermal with the lines laid out vertically? Prohibitively.

we went with a hybrid gas-heat pump. should work well up there. all new insulated windows, blown in insulation, etc. Possibly a home wind turbine later as the winds up there can be tremendous, but are usually very consistent. solar is also an option, but for now with a complete gut job, I just want to get it done and move in. Add ons will have to wait.

The geothermal system we priced was vertical drilled holes (like wells), and the cost was too high for our application, but I would do it on new construction. I didn't get the impression the horizontal method would have been all that much cheaper, maybe 10-15%.

fortunately for me this year the price of natural gas dropped significantly. despite consuming more ft3 of gas, i paid less for it. and that cost me $0 in upgrades.

it is kinda weird right now to look outside and still see snow in the woods in places, yet it's supposed to be in the 70's today...

Oh, and drilling on the mountain tops here involves mostly going through rock, that's why the expense, but yeah, it was just not in the budget for this remodel.


by the way, there are home DIY "kits" for blown in insulation, both the foam and the stuff you can buy in bulk at Lowe's or Home depot. Big savings if you DIY. with your square footage though, it would still be expensive.

It's early, not all of the mods have had their morning coffee yet. :p

// welcome to Foo!

It's early, not all of the mods have had their morning coffee yet. :p

// welcome to Foo!

I've seen them on several DIY, etc. shows and they certainly are interesting. I could not use them, my house sits on roughly 3 feet of fill then solid bedrock but I have radiant heat throughout and a very efficient gas fired boiler. My highest heating bill this winter was just over $150.00 and that includes hot water and cooking...I keep the main thermostat at 68f, bedroom at 65f and downstairs family room, guest room and son's room at 66f. Our house is also smaller than P's at a modest 2800 sq feet. I love radiant heat.

I had to turn the AC on Wednesday night. It's that funny time of year in Texas where you might run the heat and AC in the same week.

I had to turn the AC on Wednesday night. It's that funny time of year in Texas where you might run the heat and AC in the same day.

fify. What was it, 2 weeks ago we went from 70 one afternoon to the low 30's the next morning?

Had to kick up the furnace this am as the morning temps are still hovering around freezing but by this afternoon I will be throwing open the windows (again).

My winter gas bill averaged about $150.00 a month but I split that with the downstairs tenant... this includes heat, hot water, and cooking as it is all gas.

If I was to build or buy another home it would be geothermal and sub t with a little solar as I have a goal of getting off the grid at some point.

Am glad that we don't pay for heating in my apartment. We had that heater cranked so many times this winter...

Been sleeping with windows open the last few nights.

PCad, when did Apple start marketing the iWarm?

FYI, for anyone thinking of going air sourced heat pumps,there is a heat pump system out there that is efficent down to -30 in either F or C http://www.gotohallowell.com/

FYI, for anyone thinking of going air sourced heat pumps,there is a heat pump system out there that is efficent down to -30 in either F or C http://www.gotohallowell.com/

Looked into them. Double the cost of the heat pump we installed.

I had to turn the AC on Wednesday night. It's that funny time of year in Texas where you might run the heat and AC in the same week.

You might benefit from some additional thermal mass to moderate temperature swings like that.

are you serious? we are having an in-depth discussion about heating oil?

out of my way. i need to get a good seat.

are you serious? we are having an in-depth discussion about heating oil?

out of my way. i need to get a good seat.

It is Pcad, lowering his carbon footprint. Next: Toyota Prius

Damn hippies!

It is Pcad, lowering his carbon footprint. Next: Toyota Prius

says a multiple carbon bike buyer. don't you care about the future?

Do carbon fiber soled cycling shoes increase or decrease said footprint?

I thought pcad was permabanned. I really did not need a discussion of heating oil. Dang April Fools.

I thought pcad was permabanned. I really did not need a discussion of heating oil. Dang April Fools.

Then why are you on this thread? Put me on 'Ignore' with the 33 morons who are similarly incapable of exercising the basic discretion that would allow you to use a television remote control.

^^^
(somebody is in a bad mood)

I guess I agree with you- in fact I was just thinking about whether to crank up the AC for the first time this year.

^^^
(somebody is in a bad mood)

You'd be in a bad mood if your mouth had been hurting for 9 days too. Now stop pissing me off or I'll... I'll... I'll.. keep posting here.

I guess I agree with you- in fact I was just thinking about whether to crank up the AC for the first time this year.

The heating season isn't over, but it's warm enough so that the boiler won't be heating the house going forward, if we need heat the heat pump can handle it if it's over 40º.

I live in the Bay Area. My computer keeps my room warm :)

$4000 for insulation versus your estimated 150 gallons savings per winter at $2.50 per gallon (this year's price). Looks like it would pay back in 10-15 years depending how you account for your financing costs, and assuming no tax credit eligibility.

And is that replacing existing insulation, or no insulation in that portion of the house? If the latter, fiberglass batting runs around $1.50/square foot. It might give you more bang for your buck (if you do the work yourself).

Just a casual thought.

One nice thing about having just moved into an apartment: I just got my first electrical bill. It came to about $1/day including electric heat. More temperate climate, of course, but not bad.

You might benefit from some additional thermal mass to moderate temperature swings like that.

A approve the additional thermal mass method.

Are there even mods on this board anymore?

Dear God, I'm surprised you're not one by now.

Oh goodness no.

Dear God, I'm surprised you're not one by now.

Why would anyone want to be a mod on this idiot site?

Says the guy with 38k posts. It's actually more because Foo posts don't count.

I get to play with the other kids. I don't have to yell at them like a friggin Den Mother.

Are there even mods on this board anymore?

Seeing that you were apparently banned as April Fools' prank, maybe they are just studying things ;)

The heating season isn't over, but it's warm enough so that the boiler won't be heating the house going forward, if we need heat the heat pump can handle it if it's over 40º.

In Texas, the cooling season has begun.