Living Car Free - lightning

What do you guys do about lightning? Just ride in it? Tomorrow may be the first day I've had to deal with this, as I've always had my truck as backup.

It's pretty rare for thunderstorms to last for hours and hours. Most thunderstorms will be over in about an hour or so in the Harrisburg area... when I lived in Erie, they were often much shorter since the terrain is so much flatter. Around Madison, they might only last a half hour.

Most of the lightning is on the edges of the storm.

They also tend to happen at pretty predictable times. It's fairly odd to have strong storms early in the day. Think about 3pm til maybe 6pm as the high storm odds window. So you don't do much besides keep half an eye on the radar (there should be observation instruments somewhere in Erie, since it's still a major port, but I can't remember where they are). If the radar is looking nasty, head home a touch early, or plan on being home late.

If you have a long commute, it will take more planning. But even there... you'll know which way you're tilting things if a storm comes.

Depends on the part of the country you are in. I live in the Sandhills/Coastal Plains of NC. We occasional get clear sky strikes around here. If you get hit by one of those, it was your time to go!:eek:

As a general rule I don't like riding in a heavy thunderstorm. The ones we get around here run in cells, once a cell has moved through, even if it is still raining I will ride. I don't think I would want to ride in a storm in the plains where I was the tallest thing around.

Aaron:)

Edit: apparently was wrong.

With the rubber of your tyres providing a bit of insulation I'll ride in them!


Please don't spread that untruth. Your tires provide you ZERO insulation against lightning.

What protects car drivers is not their tires, but rather that they are in a steel cage that gives lightning a way to go around them. A million volts can easily find a way to traverse a wet bicycle tire. The trees on the side of the road as you ride give you more protection than your tires, if only because they are taller than you are and provide a more tempting target than you do.

Just an FYI -- the amount of rubber in your tires doesn't really provide any insulation against lightning (whether on a bike or in a car).

EDIT: oops, Artkansas beat me to it...

it's best to avoid it. I've ridden through some and later thought better of that decision.

one day in particular I saw the storm clouds coming as I rode a road through cornfields and farmland and the storm was so low and then this one rolling crackling thunder came in low over my head and crossing my path perpendicular to my travel. I could hear it approaching from my left and continuing to crackle and spark and thunder in a rolling fashion over head and then move to my right. the whole time I thought I was going to die. I thought this was the moment that would end my life and it would be spectacular! I was so scared and I really DIDN'T want to die.

I never want to go through that again.

http://www.weather.gov/om/lightning/outdoors.htm
Motorcyclist/Bicyclist


People have been hit by lightning while riding motorcycles and bikes. Here are just a few examples:



Virginia Beach, VA: Motorcyclist killed while traveling on Route 58.
Colorado: a 16 year old boy killed while riding a bicycle.
Tennessee: a 47 year old man killed while leaning against his motorcycle.
Virginia: a man killed riding his motorcycle.

Protect yourself when on a bicycle, motorcycle or dirt bike. Carry a portable NOAA Weather Radio or listen to commercial radio. If you see threatening skies in the distance and you are near a safe building, pull over and wait 30 minutes after the last rumble of thunder before resuming your ride.


Cyclist Struck By Lightning In Boulder

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/20276820/detail.html

Bicycle Struck by Lightning.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9803EFDA1E31E033A25753C1A9639C946197D6CF


Bicyclist Hit By Lightning In Critical Condition

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/20828905/detail.html

Does it make any difference that it's an in-town commute where I'm surrounded by taller objects (buildings, trees, etc)?

um yeah cuz those buildings probably have lighting rods on their roofs to attract and guide any bolts

um yeah cuz those buildings probably have lighting rods on their roofs to attract and guide any bolts

Is this sarcasm? I can't tell.

no, I was serious. why? doesn't it make sense?

um yeah cuz those buildings probably have lighting rods on their roofs to attract and guide any bolts

Maybe...

Also just as an FYI a lightning rod system is designed to bleed off the charge that builds up and attracts lightning. They also do provide a quick route to the ground for a strike if it occurs. I spent several years as a UL certified lightning rod installer on a couple of large government projects. Most people don't realize that lightning actually starts out from the ground with a leader strike, that draws the strike from the Sky.

Also someone posted about "rolling thunder" that is usually a sign of cloud to cloud strikes and is actually safer than the "crack" thunder which means a ground strike.

Aaron:)

that was me with the rolling thunder. cool info! I guess that's why I wasn't on that day leaving only a singed smoking pile of metal and bio waste

it's best to avoid it. I've ridden through some and later thought better of that decision.

You link to some news articles that point out that people really do die from lightning strikes. The thing is, although these events are noteworthy (in the sense of, they make the news and people find them interesting) they are partly noteworthy because they are so unusual.

I don't know the statistics, but I would be interested to see...

is the difference between your chances of being killed riding in a rainstorm without lightning versus riding in a rainstorm with lightning negligible / insignificant?
It's not that I think it is all that safe to ride in a lightning storm - it's that I think perhaps most of the risk comes from getting on the road and sharing it with cars (http://www.google.com/search?q=automobile+deaths+per+year) (cars kill 40,000 per year in the usa), rather than the lightning (http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/overview.htm) (kills ~58 per year in the usa).

At age twelve I was outside sitting in a small metal shed with two other friends doing bicycle repair during a thunderstorm. I was leaning against the metal wall. The shed was attached to a metal fence by several strings holding eggplant vines. There were several tall oak trees all around us and their branches were touching the fence.

A lightning bolt struck one of the trees very close by and my back got an electric shock. It wasn't bad. It did startle me. If I could describe the nearest thing to the feeling, it would be like touching your tongue to the top of a weak 9 volt battery except the feeling was all over my shoulders and upper back. The sound was scarier than the electric shock.

Well, it seems pretty tough to plan my commute to work based on a lightning storm. I guess I'll just have to see if I feel like I'm going to die when it happens. Does everyone else just ride, or do you all wait it out?

You link to some news articles that point out that people really do die from lightning strikes. The thing is, although these events are noteworthy (in the sense of, they make the news and people find them interesting) they are partly noteworthy because they are so unusual.

I don't know the statistics, but I would be interested to see...

is the difference between your chances of being killed riding in a rainstorm without lightning versus riding in a rainstorm with lightning negligible / insignificant?
It's not that I think it is all that safe to ride in a lightning storm - it's that I think perhaps most of the risk comes from getting on the road and sharing it with cars (http://www.google.com/search?q=automobile+deaths+per+year) (cars kill 40,000 per year in the usa), rather than the lightning (http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/overview.htm) (kills ~58 per year in the usa).

*DINGDINGDING* We have a winner.

While I agree with a previous poster that riding alone in a major storm along a treeless plain is probably a poor decision, the risk of being struck by lightning is so low that you shouldn't be worrying about it.

This isn't to say you shouldn't take precautions when riding in inclement weather—visibility is still poor, roads are still slick, winds can still gust and (most importantly) cars will still have a much harder time seeing you—but lightning itself is more or less a non-threat.

I'm much more concerned about cars than lightning. That said, if I can avoid biking in a thunderstorm, I will. Just last week I had to leave work early to avoid a big storm heading my way with high winds and driving rain.

it's that I think perhaps most of the risk comes from getting on the road and sharing it with cars (http://www.google.com/search?q=automobile+deaths+per+year) (cars kill 40,000 per year in the usa), rather than the lightning (http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/overview.htm) (kills ~58 per year in the usa).

This is the whole reason I don't worry about it.

That said, if it's just a passing t-storm, I'll wait it out if it won't make me late for work, but I will ride in it if necessary, and I've done so.

Now hail—I've been hailed on and don't care for that one bit at all. I will seek shelter from hail.

You link to some news articles that point out that people really do die from lightning strikes. The thing is, although these events are noteworthy (in the sense of, they make the news and people find them interesting) they are partly noteworthy because they are so unusual.

I don't know the statistics, but I would be interested to see...

is the difference between your chances of being killed riding in a rainstorm without lightning versus riding in a rainstorm with lightning negligible / insignificant?
It's not that I think it is all that safe to ride in a lightning storm - it's that I think perhaps most of the risk comes from getting on the road and sharing it with cars (http://www.google.com/search?q=automobile+deaths+per+year) (cars kill 40,000 per year in the usa), rather than the lightning (http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/overview.htm) (kills ~58 per year in the usa).

I agree that cars are more of a problem. As pointed out earlier, the part of the country I ride in the storms typically come in cells, and I will normally wait them out.

Aaron :)

I like it. It's primal. But, like tsl, I will take shelter from hail.

I don't ride in it anymore after having been struck through the ground by a bolt.

All these people who quote 38 deaths a year from lightning are abusing the statistics. First, one doesn't need to die to have their life changed permanently by a lightning strike.. so what are the odds of simply being struck? a lot higher i'll bet. in fact the odds of being struck again go up if you are struck once.

Secondly, the rate of 38 deaths is often put forth in the scope of the general population... that is misleading because the general population isn't outside in a lightning storm. One could conclude swimming in a pool of great white sharks is safe since only 15 people die a year in shark attacks. Does that make swimming in a pool of great white sharks safe? no. Does cycling around in an open field during a lightning storm seem safe because only 38 people die a year from it? no. Use some common sense.

Thanks for all your feedback. I think I'll leave early or late if I can avoid the storm, but if I have no choice I will accept my risk for what it is. I think I am more likely to be hit and killed by a car than a lightning strike. That being said, if I find out I cry like a baby when the storm gets bad, I'll rethink my position.

Well, it seems pretty tough to plan my commute to work based on a lightning storm. I guess I'll just have to see if I feel like I'm going to die when it happens. Does everyone else just ride, or do you all wait it out?

It depends, usually if I've gotten started, I continue, but if I've been smart and checked the weather.gov site, I may wait, or I may realize that I'd better get booking before the real weather hits.

A few weeks ago, when I rode home, there was lightning on 3 sides of me, (no rain, strangely) and as I got near home, the tornado alarms began wailing. Maybe I should have waited, but it was relatively quiet when I left work.

Sites like weather.gov are such a blessing to bicyclists.

I don't ride in it anymore after having been struck through the ground by a bolt.

All these people who quote 38 deaths a year from lightning are abusing the statistics. First, one doesn't need to die to have their life changed permanently by a lightning strike.. so what are the odds of simply being struck? a lot higher i'll bet. in fact the odds of being struck again go up if you are struck once.

Secondly, the rate of 38 deaths is often put forth in the scope of the general population... that is misleading because the general population isn't outside in a lightning storm. One could conclude swimming in a pool of great white sharks is safe since only 15 people die a year in shark attacks. Does that make swimming in a pool of great white sharks safe? no. Does cycling around in an open field during a lightning storm seem safe because only 38 people die a year from it? no. Use some common sense.

according to this (http://www.unitedjustice.com/death-statistics.html), about 3 times as many people are injured by lightning than killed by it. if we're accepting 38 as the correct yearly figure, then we could expect somewhere in the vicinity of 120 strikes that do not kill every year. still hardly a statistic to worry about.

i think everyone has made the proper caveats. there are things you can do to reduce your risk, but honestly how many people out there commute through giant vacant fields every day? i'm sorry you've been hit by lightning, but just because your lifetime risk is 100% doesn't mean you should act as a scare-monger.

bottom-line: don't worry about being hit by lightning. don't ride if you can't handle the weather. don't get hit by a car.

according to this (http://www.unitedjustice.com/death-statistics.html), about 3 times as many people are injured by lightning than killed by it. if we're accepting 38 as the correct yearly figure, then we could expect somewhere in the vicinity of 120 strikes that do not kill every year. still hardly a statistic to worry about.

i think everyone has made the proper caveats. there are things you can do to reduce your risk, but honestly how many people out there commute through giant vacant fields every day? i'm sorry you've been hit by lightning, but just because your lifetime risk is 100% doesn't mean you should act as a scare-monger.

bottom-line: don't worry about being hit by lightning. don't ride if you can't handle the weather. don't get hit by a car.

Hello..... those odds might be accurate if you are sitting in your living room, but the odds of being hit go way up when you are sitting in the middle of a soccer field during a storm.

Use some common sense.

I think it is you that lacks common sense. Given the statistics we've been talking about, fewer than 200 people are struck by lightning every year. This includes everyone who is sitting alone in the middle of soccer fields during thunderstorms. How many people do you think go outside in the middle of thunderstorms in year? It's still less than 200 of those people that get struck every year.

As everyone has already explained, you can take steps to reduce the risk of lightning strike, but in every case there are factors that are far more dangerous and likely to kill you that demand your attention.

I think it is you that lacks common sense. Given the statistics we've been talking about, fewer than 200 people are struck by lightning every year. This includes everyone who is sitting alone in the middle of soccer fields during thunderstorms. How many people do you think go outside in the middle of thunderstorms in year? It's still less than 200 of those people that get struck every year.

As everyone has already explained, you can take steps to reduce the risk of lightning strike, but in every case there are factors that are far more dangerous and likely to kill you that demand your attention.

The trouble with your statistic of 200 strikes is that its so general as to be near useless.
Those levels of risk are not the same as the odds. This is simply because lightning poses almost no danger to the majority of americans inside cars and buildings or on sheltered streets.

Lets say the war in iraq kills 400 americans each year.

If you don't differentiate the samples then you are saying the risk of being killed by the war in iraq while sitting in a rush hour traffic jam is the same as driving in a hummer on some iraqi street.

The levels of risk are not the same. It is not like you'll be sitting on a LA freeway and suddenly die in an IED attack. The same is true for the lightning, it is not like you'll be inside cooking dinner and suddenly be struck down by lightning. You are far more likely to die in an Iraqi IED attack when you are in iraq - you are far more likely to be struck by lightning when you are cycling through an open field while one is going on.

What you are doing, telling people it is no big deal to ride through a lightning storm is irresponsible.

The trouble with your statistic of 200 strikes is that its so general as to be near useless.
Those levels of risk are not the same as the odds. This is simply because lightning poses almost no danger to the majority of americans inside cars and buildings or on sheltered streets.

Lets say the war in iraq kills 400 americans each year.

If you don't differentiate the samples then you are saying the risk of being killed by the war in iraq while sitting in a rush hour traffic jam is the same as driving in a hummer on some iraqi street.

The levels of risk are not the same. It is not like you'll be sitting on a LA freeway and suddenly die in an IED attack. The same is true for the lightning, it is not like you'll be inside cooking dinner and suddenly be struck down by lightning. You are far more likely to die in an Iraqi IED attack when you are in iraq - you are far more likely to be struck by lightning when you are cycling through an open field while one is going on.

What you are doing, telling people it is no big deal to ride through a lightning storm is irresponsible.

What you're saying is ten times more useless. How many times do you find yourself commuting to work on your bike, "sitting in the middle of a soccer field?"

I think you'll find I'm not the idiot you seem to think I am. I understand that you have to differentiate between sample groups. I think that's actually what you're failing to do. The vast, vast majority of people riding their bikes are going to be doing so in cities, where they're surrounded by buildings and trees much taller than them.

Even when you take the extremely small subsection of cyclists who make a habit of riding through empty fields in major thunderstorms... That is still a subsection much more likely to be injured or killed by things other than lightning.

I also think you'll notice that I never said "it is no big deal to ride through a lightning storm." In fact, I've taken great pains in every single post to outline the very real dangers of riding in a thunderstorm—poor visibility, slick roads, gusting winds, flying debris, obstructions hidden by water and most importantly drivers that are also dealing with all of that crap. I guarantee that if you did a study of all cycling injuries/deaths sustained during storms, you'll find that well over 99% of the time, it had nothing to do with anyone or anything being struck by lightning. You see? I'm not telling anyone to go out riding in a thunderstorm—I'm telling them that riding in a thunderstorm is very dangerous, just not because of the threat lightning poses.

Come on folks, we can disagree without the name calling.

Here's my 2 cents:

There is no requirement for lightning deaths to be reported to any kind of authority (like car accidents are) so I would guess that more people actually die from lightning strikes than are included in these statistics.

A major reason that few people are killed by lightning is probably that most people don't go outdoors in electric storms. This would account for why so many golfers are hit by lightning--they are practically the only people who get caught outdoors when lightning strikes.

I don't think you should count on buildings and trees drawing the lightning away from you. Lightning can strike anywhere it wants to. Also, sometimes the electric charge "jumps" from a tree to a nearby human.

I know of a woman who suffered an indirect hit by lightning. She was a bigwig university administrator's daughter and was quite bright and sociable. The lightning strike affected her memory and some motor skills and I don't know if she ever regained her faculties. Lightning scares the crap out of me.

I've had some close calls, including an embarrassing incident in which I was walking the dog, and a stroke hit a tree about twenty feet from me--I just ran down the block after emitting an involuntary high squeal and dropping the leash. The dog simply galloped with me, enjoying her freedom and giving me a big doggy-smile. Another time, while on a cross-country vacation, I remember seeing a bright flash while in the back seat. My dad got out of the car and found a solder puddle on the hood where the antenna used to be. That was the vacation I was almost wiped out by a waterspout that took out some motel roofs . . .

Well I rode home in a lightning storm 2 days ago, but not on purpose. There wasn't any lightning when I left. It scared me.. next time I may wait or call the wife with her van.

I had some hail come down on me last week. Hurt like a sonofa***** when it hit my arms. The lightning, thunder and wind scarred me a little too.

I had some hail come down on me last week. Hurt like a sonofa***** when it hit my arms. The lightning, thunder and wind scarred me a little too.

lol--scarred you or scared you?

lol--scarred you or scared you?

oops. Yeah, scared, thankfully not scarred.

Once, I was riding home from my local mall when a severe thunderstorm came. I was told that it is very hard for lightning to strike a moving target, so I simply petaled as fast as possible. Until a typical reckless Illinoisan stopped right in front of me, my brakes were slippery wet and useless, and I collided with the person's car, destroying my bike. Luckily, I eventually got myself a new bike.

Sounds like you were going to fast for conditions. At the rate lightning travels, it doesn't matter if you're standing still or going 20 mph; it looks like zero to a lightning bolt either way.

Tomorrow we may have a thunderstorm and I won't be venturing out if it does rain. I'm a chicken at heart. bok bok

I used to ride regularly in the Everglades in south Florida, and I remember on particular afternoon when a very nasty thunderstorm blew up around me. I had been on a 100 mile ride, and the day started out sunny and hot, the typical 90-odd degree with 100% humid kind of day that begins in June and runs through September.

The ride was miserable, and I had sweated so much that my black shorts had turned mostly wide from dried salt, and I had salt crystals on my face and legs. I was praying for clouds and a cool breeze as I turned around for my 50 mile return trip. Someone was listening because after awhile clouds began forming quickly. The shade they provided felt quite good, but then I could hear thunder starting to rumble.

Within minutes lightning was crashing everywhere, and incredible amounts of rain began to fall. I was blinded by salt and sweat washing into my eyes from under my helmet, and the roadway was quickly covered with 3 inches of water. Riding through the Everglades amongst the sugar plantations I was the tallest thing around. There were no trees, nor were there any poles or other tall objects, only the occasional speed limit sign. To say I was a little worried was an understatement, but the cold and wet helped, and I picked up my pace, pushing myself until I got to the highway interchange, which allowed me to sit out the rest of the storm under a bridge.

Lighting has a major role in Power generation..

Lighting has a major role in Power generation..
How so?

Around here it plays a major part...it knocks the power out and burns up transformers!:eek:

Aaron:)

There has been a talk that, whether it is possible to store energy from lighting or not...
At present there are many no's and yes's, but at the future there may a possible way to do it!!

Most people don't realize that lightning actually starts out from the ground with a leader strike, that draws the strike from the Sky.


Aaron:)

My friend was just talking about this the other day. He said if you are outside in a thunderstorm and you taste something metal in your mouth/throat get the hell out of the way since lightning is headed your way.

We were joking about it since I don't think there is any way to avoid it once the cloud put a red dot on you. Probably only a split second difference.

My friend was just talking about this the other day. He said if you are outside in a thunderstorm and you taste something metal in your mouth/throat get the hell out of the way since lightning is headed your way.

We were joking about it since I don't think there is any way to avoid it once the cloud put a red dot on you. Probably only a split second difference.

You don't have to move far to avoid a direct hit, another giveaway is if your hair stands up and you feel a tingle, a quick dive could be a life saver. FWIW I have installed many a UL list Lightning Protection system as well as been too close to too many strikes over the years. I love a good thunderstorm and enjoy watching a good lightning show, just don't want to be close to a strike.

The metallic taste and the tingling are signs of the charge building up, you do still have time to move, not much, but some. Sad part is most people wouldn't know what it was and be able to act on it.

Aaron :)

You don't have to move far to avoid a direct hit, another giveaway is if your hair stands up and you feel a tingle, a quick dive could be a life saver. FWIW I have installed many a UL list Lightning Protection system as well as been too close to too many strikes over the years. I love a good thunderstorm and enjoy watching a good lightning show, just don't want to be close to a strike.

The metallic taste and the tingling are signs of the charge building up, you do still have time to move, not much, but some. Sad part is most people wouldn't know what it was and be able to act on it.

Aaron :)

Yup, when i was almost struck I dove for cover, I was still hit but, not directly. I immediately recognized the feeling of all the hair standing up on your body and managed to get away because there was something to dive under... There are a couple different types of lightning though, not all give you the warning. Cloud to ground is the most dangerous by far as it can strike a a few kilometers away. If you are caught out, crouch into a ball - don't lay flat - by being in a ball your organs are protected from being burnt since the majority of the current will flow over your surface not through you.

So is the pre charge like a gps coordinate? If you mange to dive out of the way it will strike where you *were*. Or does it still follow you and maybe diving near or around another object kinda confuse it enough to maybe attract to that?

With the adrenaline pumping, I could probably dive and roll 10 yards if I think lightning is coming for me. But good to know if its just best to dive flat out the way as far as possible, or dive for cover/ protection.

This is good stuff. Had my friend never said anything, or me seeing this thread would have no idea about this.

So is the pre charge like a gps coordinate? If you mange to dive out of the way it will strike where you *were*. Or does it still follow you and maybe diving near or around another object kinda confuse it enough to maybe attract to that?

With the adrenaline pumping, I could probably dive and roll 10 yards if I think lightning is coming for me. But good to know if its just best to dive flat out the way as far as possible, or dive for cover/ protection.

This is good stuff. Had my friend never said anything, or me seeing this thread would have no idea about this.

There is no sure answer, typically the bolt flows over the highest object in the immediate area - why people say not to take cover under a tree in the middle of a field... if there are multiple high objects, who knows. The warning it is coming well under a second, so you'll probably just do whatever because it won't be a conscious decision, you can for sure feel the build-up - in my experience.