General Cycling Discussion - frustrated by $ budgets $

I see hundreds of posts asking for bike recommendations by people that are new to cycling that want a lot of bike for not a lot of $ dollars $. I agree that you have to be wary of the $'s but many let the $ limit drive their bicycle purchase decision.

It's not reasonable to request a bike that you want to use for commuting, road racing, touring, and cyclocross 'cuz you're really going to "get into cycling" and you're going to ride this bike everywhere and put thousands of miles on it, it needs to be reliable, weigh less than 20 lbs, etc., etc., etc.... Oh... and the budget is $700!

I may be different than others, but if I say I'm going to "get into a sport or hobby" I define what it is that I want to do with the sport and let my purchasing decision be driven by my goals or objectives rather than a $ dollar $ limit. I'm happy with my purchases. Yes, they were way more expensive than what I wanted to spend and it was even a little uncomfortable handing over the cash but, I am absolutely elated with the bicycles that I have purchased. And, I am "into" cycling at my original goals and objectives.

I have an accounting/finance background. The way I see a bicycle purchase (or vehicle) is that this piece of equipment is something you plan to use for 15-30 years (i.e. if you are really "into it") and I amortize the cost of the equipment over that time period. So, a good quality bike amortized over 15 years is as follows:

$1000 = $5.55 per month
$2000 = $11.11 per month
$5000 = $27.75 per month
$10,000 = $55.50 per month (is this a typical health club monthly payment?)

My objectives were never to race, I think it's easy to get to the $10,000 level with that objective. My main objectives are commuting/club rides/fitness rides/one or two-day distance events. I had to buy two bikes. That took me to the $5000 level or... about 28 bucks a month - something I feel I can afford for an activity that I am "really into."

How do you think the decision should be made on how much you should spend on a bicycle???

What sets a budget is a complicated & arcane subject. Had a guy who is obviously very wealthy (beachfront home, Ferrari, airplane & trophy wife) tell me that $600.00 for a bike is way too much. For me, that's the starting point for a decent mountain bike assuming buying last years model on close-out. One of my favorite bikes to ride was $25.00 off Craigslist. It's overweight & out of date, but for riding down to the beach, having a beer AND picking up groceries on the way home it's hard to beat.

Bought a Univega Super Strada in 1985. The $650.00 was a lot of money for me. In today's dollars, that's about $1,300.00. I was a poor delivery truck driver. Still ride it. It was worth it, then & now.

I think people who are "getting into cycling" should ride a $1300 and a $300 bike to see the difference. Not to say that serviceable bike can't be had for <X$ amount but, when I got on my friends Specialized after riding Wallyworld bikes it became obvious why his bike cost so much more than the one I was riding. Shortly there after I saved money and bought a nice bike.

Starting cheap (but not too cheap) can be a good thing.

I walked into a bike shop two years ago and bought two $225 bikes. One for me, and one for my daughter. I wasn't a cyclist, I was 70lbs heavier than I am now, and I wanted to lose weight.

What started as a fairly cheap trial turned into a passion. My $225 bike is now decomissioned (it wasn't meant to handle 3500 miles). I've bought two better bikes, and learned the basics on the cheap one.

Really, ride whatever bike you can. You can tour on a $20 used bike (http://www.dirtragmag.com/print/article-print.php?ID=859).

Most people getting into cycling have no clue what they want, let alone what they need. They do generally have an idea of what their budget is though, hence using that as a starting point. Luckily, unlike some hobbies, pretty much any budget will work for getting into cycling. I've set friends up with quality bikes for as little as $75 (used) and built a few of my own for, well, a lot more than that. When the budget allows it, a more durable, lighter weight, and better fitting bike can be had but not everyone who's jumping into a hobby wants to outlay so much cash before they figure out if it's really for them. With the right purchases, you can have a net gain of cash buying and selling a bike rather than losing hundreds or thousands buying brand new from the LBS then changing your mind.

My point is... I think you get what you pay for. If you want to spend $500 on a bike... you will get a bike that you can ride. But don't be fooled, you aren't "into" cycling and you are not going to hang in there with the local club cyclists on a 35 mile ride where they are averaging a leisurly 18-20 mph on their $1500+ bikes.

I had an entry level $225 hybrid bike from the LBS. Yeah, I putzed around on it. Got onto it a handful of times over a period of about 5 years. However, when I decided that I wanted to start commuting and doing some longer rides, I tried it on the cheap hybrid... it wasn't all that great. I rode an entry level steel road bike... Wow! what a difference! That was fun! That was when I started doing my research trying to find the bike for me. At that point, I didn't have a budget in mind. Once I found that the bikes that I wanted were over $1000 then I knew I had to commit or get back on the hybrid.

I sold the hybrid. I was very up front with the customer. He said he wanted a bike to putz around the neighborhood on. He was in his late 60's and hadn't been on a bike for over 30 years. I told him if he wanted to "putz" then the hybrid was a "putz around" bike. He knew his goals and objectives. He got it for $100 (It was a Trek Navigator.) I figured that I was never going to ride it again.

Like I said... you get what you pay for (Yes, I know, there is the occassional 'craigslist' deal which is good... if you can be sure it's not stolen.)

My point is... I think you get what you pay for. If you want to spend $500 on a bike... you will get a bike that you can ride. But don't be fooled, you aren't "into" cycling and you are not going to hang in there with the local club cyclists on a 35 mile ride where they are averaging a leisurly 18-20 mph on their $1500+ bikes.)

I commuted 15,000 miles over 4 years on a $350 Specialized Hardrock (added rigid fork, slicks, rack, and fenders). It wasn't a fast bike but I didn't really care. It was cheap enough that I didn't mind riding it in all sorts of crappy weather and leaving it outside in the elements all day while I worked. I replaced a few minor parts over the years (a bottom bracket, a few cassettes and chains) but nothing out of the ordinary for that many miles. For someone to say I'm not into cycling because I only spent some dollar amount they feel is low is pretty childish.

I now commute on a much nicer, lighter bike (still in lots of crappy weather) but at least I can store it indoors at my new job.

Most people getting into cycling have no clue what they want, let alone what they need. They do generally have an idea of what their budget is though, hence using that as a starting point. Luckily, unlike some hobbies, pretty much any budget will work for getting into cycling. I've set friends up with quality bikes for as little as $75 (used) and built a few of my own for, well, a lot more than that. When the budget allows it, a more durable, lighter weight, and better fitting bike can be had but not everyone who's jumping into a hobby wants to outlay so much cash before they figure out if it's really for them. With the right purchases, you can have a net gain of cash buying and selling a bike rather than losing hundreds or thousands buying brand new from the LBS then changing your mind.

A guy should feel fortunate to have a friend like you. I agree with your logic if a person goes into it not knowing what he wants. However, some of the posts in the forums have some pretty strict criteria... like the guy knows exactly what he wants. Then he puts a budget limit of about 1/3 or 1/2 of what something like that would cost new. I'm sure that you can set up a "quality bike" for $75... depending on what those qualities are. It's not going to be a new $75 quality bike.

People have ridden my bikes. They tell me how nice they feel and that they could really get into riding if they had something like I have. They ask me if they could get into a bike like my commuter/touring bike (steel rocky mountain sherpa 30 - a $2000 setup) or my road bike (cannondale synapse carbon SL2 - $3000) for a couple of hundred dollars. To be honest with them, about the only answer that I can give them is "NO" or... "YES" something "like it"... but the only similarities might be that they both have two wheels.

There is a difference between a "functional" bike and a "nice" bike. Just to be fair... all these friends of mine drive much nicer vehicles than I do (1991 toyota pickup) and I have no misconceptions that my vehicle is something like theirs... other than the number of wheels.

I commuted 15,000 miles over 4 years on a $350 Specialized Hardrock (added rigid fork, slicks, rack, and fenders). It wasn't a fast bike but I didn't really care. It was cheap enough that I didn't mind riding it in all sorts of crappy weather and leaving it outside in the elements all day while I worked. I replaced a few minor parts over the years (a bottom bracket, a few cassettes and chains) but nothing out of the ordinary for that many miles. For someone to say I'm not into cycling because I only spent some dollar amount they feel is low is pretty childish.

I now commute on a much nicer, lighter bike (still in lots of crappy weather) but at least I can store it indoors at my new job.

You jumped in and misread the whole thing, didn't you? My point is, that the bike purchase should be the one that meets your needs, expectations, goals, and objectives... not the one that costs "X" dollars. The Hardrock was used for exactly what it was supposed to be used for! You didn't buy that $350 Hardrock to go on club road rides and do road races on the weekends, did you?

You may have misunderstood my use of the term "cycling." I am using it to describe a sport. Like "cycling" televised on Versus... road racing... the Tour de' France. So... if you are "into" that kind of "cycling" on any level... you won't find to many other participants on a Specialized Hardrock. I think the "cycling" that you are speaking of is what I call "commuting."

Many people think a bike is just a bike (ie, they are all the same). Many people think they can get a "magic" bike for very little money.

Having a budget is reasonable. It just has to be a reasonable budget. The problem is.. [see first paragraph]



My point is, that the bike purchase should be the one that meets your needs, expectations, goals, and objectives... not the one that costs "X" dollars.
People have no idea about the first stuff. They do understand dollars (and they are cheap). GOTO: first paragraph.

After two years of biking, I'm enjoying it far more than I thought I would, and decided to buy a new bike this year. Yeah, probably could of saved some money if I bought the 'better bike' from the get-go, but part of my train of thought was : It's less of a sting to have a $500 bike collecting dust if I end up not using it vs a $1,500 bike collecting dust.

So... you spent $2000 on a $1500 bike??? Where I work, they call that mis-management. We don't get the "$500 try it and see if you like it." Most of us that cycle a lot have made the same mistake. I just think if you say you are going to do it... then do it! If you say you are going to give it a try... just recognize that it's probably going to cost you the $500 to "try it."

If you are a person that comes onto the forums and says, "I'm going to do it." Why not skip the $500 "try it" step? If you go into saying I'm going to "ride the bike around the neighborhood" and "I'm going to ride it 5-10 miles to work" then the $500 bike is fine. And if your needs change, then you buy a new bike to meet those needs. However, If you say I'm going to do fitness rides with the club, or go on cross country touring, or ride cyclocross, then there aren't a lot of $500 bikes that fit the bill. If you actually follow through and do those things, I will guarantee that you won't be doing them very long on the $500 bike.

I'm just hoping people will make a purchase based on their needs... not their budget, because in the long run... you will buy what you need (and if you know what that is now, why not buy it now?)

another way to break down the cost, how much time do you spend riding? A movie theater might be around $7 per hour. $1500 bike = 214 hours of riding to break even... and that will buy you a nice bike to last a lot longer than 214 hours.

How do you think the decision should be made on how much you should spend on a bicycle???

Perhaps because some people only have so much they can drop on a bike at any given moment. $10,000 might equate to $55.50 a month over fifteen years, but it also equates to half of my yearly earnings, or a full year's rent. And while it's not unreasonable to tell someone who wants to get into competitive road racing that a $700 budget won't win you any races (unless you're The Lance), it is unreasonable to tell someone who wishes to get into recreational mountain biking or commuting that $700 isn't sufficient.

If someone doesn't know thing one about bicycle purchasing, then being told that $500 racing bikes under 25 lbs don't exist is part of the learning process. With helpful advise they'll learn that they either need to alter either their expectations or their budget. I don't see how it's helpful to tell a cycling noob that:

If you want to spend $500 on a bike... you will get a bike that you can ride. But don't be fooled, you aren't "into" cycling...

Some people value their savings more than quality gear. Some people are on a tighter budget than you can (apparently) conceive. I work with a guy who commutes to work on a Roadmaster, from twice as far as me. I've let him ride my Kona, and he liked it. When I told him the price, he laughed and said, "Maybe when the kids move out."

A $300 bike affords the same gas savings as a $600 dollar bike. And they're still fun to ride. More fun than walking or riding the bus, anyway.

Many people will tell me that I spent way too much money on bicycles. To me, I made my bike purchases based on how I would use them. I know that I spent more on my fenders ($300 berthoud stainless steel, powder-coated, leather mud flaps, & brass hardware) for my touring/commuting bike than most people would spend on an entire bike.

Then again, I ride this bike InTheRain a lot. I like my feet to stay relatively dry, and like to keep most of the crud off of my drive train. Since I ride and live in the Puget Sound area, I perceived this as a priority. But... I don't spend a lot of money on sunscreen.

Many people will tell me that I spent way too much money on bicycles. To me, I made my bike purchases based on how I would use them. I know that I spent more on my fenders ($300 berthoud stainless steel, powder-coated, leather mud flaps, & brass hardware) for my touring/commuting bike than most people would spend on an entire bike.

Then again, I ride this bike InTheRain a lot. I like my feet to stay relatively dry, and like to keep most of the crud off of my drive train. Since I ride and live in the Puget Sound area, I perceived this as a priority. But... I don't spend a lot of money on sunscreen.

Holy cow, I didn't know there were $300 fenders! You know, we get a fair amount of rain, slush, and snow here in the Anchorage bowl, and my $45 Planet Bike fenders work pretty well for all of it. And while I'm sure that your's are prettier, I have my doubts that they're six times as effective.

So... you spent $2000 on a $1500 bike??? Where I work, they call that mis-management.
Then, you work at a weird place!

If you are 100% sure that a $1500 bike is what you need, then it would be a waste to spend $500 on a first bike.

If you are 20% sure that you are interested in just bicycling, then spending $1500 is foolish.

Put another way, spending $500 first is often much less of a risk than $1500 is.

Plus, spending $500 to learn what exactly you want is much more reasonable than spending $1500 on a guess.

And, you can sell the $500 bike for something (think of it as renting).


I know that I spent more on my fenders ($300 berthoud stainless steel, powder-coated, leather mud flaps, & brass hardware) for my touring/commuting bike than most people would spend on an entire bike.
Well, that was pretty stupid! You can get reasonable fenders for $50. How does this make you an authority on spending "mistakes" other people make? (Pretty fenders, by the way. Feel free to enjoy them, even if they make no rational sense!)

Then, you work at a weird place!

If you are 100% sure that a $1500 bike is what you need, then it would be a waste to spend $500 on a first bike.

If you are 20% sure that you are interested in just bicycling, then spending $1500 is foolish.

Put another way, spending $500 is much less of a risk than $1500 is.

Plus, spending $500 to learn what exactly you want is much more reasonable than spending $1500 on a guess.

And, you can sell the $500 bike for something (think of it as renting).

Uh... didn't I say, "if you know what you want, then just buy it?"

I also said, "you get what you pay for." A nickel is a smaller risk than $500... or $1500

If you are "committed" and you say you are going to do something... is that a "guess?"

You can sell a $1500 bike for more than you can sell a $500 bike.

You are perfectly OK with paying $2000 for a $1500 product??? You don't think that is not mis-managment??? If you're OK with it... I have a lot of bikes that I can sell you for $500 more than they are worth!

You can sell a $1500 bike for more than you can sell a $500 bike.
If you assume the same rate of depreciation, you would lose more money on the more expensive bike. If you assume a 100% loss (ie, you let the bike rot, unused in the garage), your loss is 3 times as much with the more expensive bike.


Uh... didn't I say, "if you know what you want, then just buy it?"
Isn't that obvious? Do you also point out that the blue sky is blue? If people "know" they want a $3000 bike but can't afford it, should they buy it anyway?


I also said, "you get what you pay for."
But this isn't exactly correct. There's a very-clear diminishing return on what one can spend on bicycles. Your $300 fenders prove that!


A nickel is a smaller risk than $500... or $1500
???? Please tell me where you can buy a $0.05 bicycle.


If you are "committed" and you say you are going to do something... is that a "guess?"
People often say the are "committed" and buy stuff that ends up unused.


You are perfectly OK with paying $2000 for a $1500 product??? You don't think that is not mis-managment???
But this is wrong: you are spending $2000 for two products!

Anyway, I be more OK with wasting $500 than wasting $1500!

Since belaboring the obvious is the mode for this thread: if you know you "need" a $1500 bike and can afford it, then you should buy it!

(Crazy thread!)

Holy cow, I didn't know there were $300 fenders! You know, we get a fair amount of rain, slush, and snow here in the Anchorage bowl, and my $45 Planet Bike fenders work pretty well for all of it. And while I'm sure that your's are prettier, I have my doubts that they're six times as effective.

Fenders $85
Powder coating $90
brass hardware for mud flaps $35
Leather mud flaps $40
Tax and shipping $50

They look good. They won't crack as easily as the planet bike fenders. The planet bike fenders don't come with quality hardware and mudflaps. I don't spend nearly the amount of time cleaning the drive train. And riders that ride behind me appreciate the fact that they don't get road spray in their faces on wet roads.

I only see the powder coating as a splurge. The guy at the LBS had planet bike fenders and SKS fenders to sell me. However, he said it too... "you get what you pay for." The berthouds will last longer than the planet bikes. The function is about the same. I could have added mud flaps to the plastic planet bikes but drilling a hole and adding the hardware would have significantly weakened the planet bike fenders.

So maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Go to the LBS and ask them which is a better fender - berthoud stainless steel or planet bike plastic. I also bought what I could afford.

If you assume the same rate of depreciation, you would lose more money on the more expensive bike.

That purely depends on the quality of the bike, not necessarily how much you paid for it. If you look at quality bicycles that are more than 30 years old, I think you will find that the bikes actually appreciated rather than depreciated.

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to argue... that a $500 bike is better than a $1500 bike? That's gonna be a tough sale. If the bicycles are intended for the same purpose, and I know what I need, and I need it to last me a long time without a lot of maintenance and parts replacement... I'm gonna buy the $1500 bike.

Biking is expensive, you should only buy what you can afford. If you can't afford the bike you need then hold off the purchase to save up more or buy something cheaper. Budgets are budgets and are relative to the priority and value someone places on the object, I wouldn't pay over $2k for a bike (my bike budget), but I would buy a car for $200k (my car budget). You get what you pay for? Eh not always. Most bikes you can get a great deal on if you buy them at year end as the new models are coming out, does that mean the person that purchased full price got a better bike than the person that purchased on discount for the same bike?

The fact is, the majority of people buy exercise equipment and rarely use them. So the majority of people should buy a cheaper started bike. There is nothing wrong with that. The other thing is that most people will not keep a bike for 15 years, especially if they are really into the sport, new and better materials come out every year. And if you keep the bike for 15 years and it sits in the garage collecting dust whil you ride your new bike all of the time, you shouldn't still amortize the cost because it's useful life to you has passed.

I think the decision should be made by the person buying the bike :)

Well, that was pretty stupid! You can get reasonable fenders for $50. How does this make you an authority on spending "mistakes" other people make? (Pretty fenders, by the way. Feel free to enjoy them, even if they make no rational sense!)

If you think "reasonable fenders" are $50 then I think you are the stupid one. I've made fenders from plastic milk jugs but you know, they just didn't look right on a $1500 touring bike. I can build you a house out of sticks, too and it wouldn't cost nearly what you are paying now. But most people would look at you and say you are the stupid one for living in it.. no matter how much you saved.

That purely depends on the quality of the bike, not necessarily how much you paid for it. If you look at quality bicycles that are more than 30 years old, I think you will find that the bikes actually appreciated rather than depreciated.
It depends on a whole lot of things!

Anyway, we aren't taking about the very odd case of ancient "vintage" bicycles. Keep the discussion reasonable by not bringing up weird exceptions.


I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to argue... that a $500 bike is better than a $1500 bike? That's gonna be a tough sale.
No one is making that argument. A bike "around" $500 isn't junk (maybe, you'd need to spend a bit more). It's hard to say that a $1500 bike would last 3 times as long. A $3000 bike isn't "two times" better than a $1500. The other problem with spending a lot is that replacement costs for things are also much higher. Personally, I'd rather lose, to theft or an accident, a $1500 bike than I would a $3000 one. Honestly, for most people, $3000 is pretty inefficient.


If the bicycles are intended for the same purpose, and I know what I need, and I need it to last me a long time without a lot of maintenance and parts replacement... I'm gonna buy the $1500 bike.
If you are 100% certain, this is reasonable. You are assuming that many people are 100% certain. This assumption is incorrect.

If you think "reasonable fenders" are $50 then I think you are the stupid one. I've made fenders from plastic milk jugs but you know, they just didn't look right on a $1500 touring bike.
Looks??? The $300 fenders don't perform 6 times as well! You are free to spend what ever you want on fenders but that doesn't mean the purchase is rational. (No doubt, the fenders you have look great!)

(I'd guess that "milk jug" fenders don't look too great. How well did they work?)


I can build you a house out of sticks, too and it wouldn't cost nearly what you are paying now. But most people would look at you and say you are the stupid one for living in it.. no matter how much you saved.
???? Step away from the bong!

The fact is, the majority of people buy exercise equipment and rarely use them. So the majority of people should buy a cheaper started bike. There is nothing wrong with that. The other thing is that most people will not keep a bike for 15 years, especially if they are really into the sport, new and better materials come out every year. And if you keep the bike for 15 years and it sits in the garage collecting dust whil you ride your new bike all of the time, you shouldn't still amortize the cost because it's useful life to you has passed.

I think the decision should be made by the person buying the bike :)

My argument is that if you're not going to use it... don't buy it. Or, if you're only going to use it occassionally, borrow or rent a bike. I would rather throw my money down the disposal than buy a bike and store it in my garage (takes up less space.)

I don't really ride with a "racing crowd" so they aren't always upgrading their equipment. Many of them ride reasonably lightweight steel frames with 7, 8, and 9 speed drive trains. I would say that more than half of the people in the group ride frames that are 10+ years old. In the touring bike community, I think you will find many that ride the same bike they were touring on back in the 70's and 80's. I plan using my touring bike as a commuter for well beyond 15 years.

People that do upgrade their equipment for the newer technology still seem to keep the old bike around. When I go on a group ride in foul weather, I see a lot of the people bring out the old bike as their "rain bike." I can see myself doing the same thing in another 10 years or so. If you regularly ride a bike, it is not passed it's useful life. A good quality, older bike is a great bike to have around as a loaner for a friend, or someone visiting from out of town, or a back up for when your main ride has a mechanical problem.

Looks??? The $300 fenders don't perform 6 times as well! You are free to spend what ever you want on fenders but that doesn't mean the purchase is rational. (No doubt, the fenders you have look great!)

I don't recall claiming that they work 6 times as well? Did I? And how would you measure that? For me, the purchase was rational. I doubt that I'm the only one that has purchased berthoud fenders.


(I'd guess that "milk jug" fenders don't look too great. How well did they work?)

They worked better as milk jugs, not so great as fenders. They were akin to riding a Specialized Rockhopper in the Tour de' France.

I don't recall claiming that they work 6 times as well? Did I?
Because you think that people should buy $1500 bikes instead of $500 ones, you implied it. Your purchase of the $300 fenders torpedoes your argument.


And how would you measure that?
Yes, that might be hard but the fact that this is a question means that one can't assume it would be 6 times as much!


For me, the purchase was rational.
No, it isn't "rational" just because you say it is! You have to present an actual argument! They would be a "rational" purchase if they performed 6 times better that the $50 (and looks don't count!). It would seem that it would be very hard to do that! But you haven't even tried!

Note that people make irrational purchases all the time. Feel free to make irrational purchases!


I doubt that I'm the only one that has purchased berthoud fenders.
Lots of people buy Rolex watches that don't tell time any better than a $10 digital watch. The fact that people buy Rolexs doesn't prove that they are a rational purchase.


They worked better as milk jugs, not so great as fenders. They were akin to riding a Specialized Rockhopper in the Tour de' France.
Heh! It would seem that, in terms of time/effort, $50 fenders are much more efficient.

A bike "around" $500 isn't junk (maybe, you'd need to spend a bit more). It's hard to say that a $1500 bike would last 3 times as long. A $3000 bike isn't "two times" better than a $1500. The other problem with spending a lot is that replacement costs for things are also much higher. Personally, I'd rather lose, to theft or an accident, a $1500 bike than I would a $3000 one. Honestly, for most people, $3000 is pretty inefficient.

I'm not sure where you keep coming up with the comparison that quality has a direct relationship to cost. I never said that $300 fenders were 6 times better than $50 fenders. I never said $1500 bikes last 3 times as long $500 bikes. And I never said that a $3000 bike is two times better than a $1500 bike.

Just to be clear, I completely understand that Lance Armstrong's $15,000 bike is not five times faster than my $3000 road bike. I ride at about 17-18 mph... Lance doesn't ride his bike at 85-90 mph. In fact, Lance could ride my bike and it would only reduce his speed by 1-2 mph - so $$$'s don't have a direct relationship to performance.

I didn't buy my bicycles to be stolen or crashed - I bought them to ride them and enjoy riding them. It never was a consideration. If that was a primary concern of mine... I wouldn't have bought a bicycle... not even one for $20.

It doesn't matter what you spend on a bicycle if it serves your function, helps you attain your objectives and goals. But, you can't buy a bicycle that meets many different criteria for a few hundred dollars. That's why there are so many different types of bicycles. I just flat out enjoy riding my bicycles. I don't ever think that, "I could have saved $500 if this bike was just one pound heavier." I know it's true, but then I wouldn't be satisfied with my bike... I'd be wanting the more expensive one that met my needs better.

njkayaker... you are the one interpreting things in a way that they were never said or intended.

1. I never said that people should buy a $1500 bike
2. I never said that $300 fenders are 6 times better than $50 fenders
3. I never said that buying a rolex was rational (it is for those people that would like one and can afford it.)

I just think I touched a nerve or pushed your buttons.... did you make a stupid bicycle purchase, and now you are trying to justify it?

I don't really care. Buy whatever you want, wherever you want. However, if you ever want to buy a bike from me... and it says $1500, you aren't getting it for $500.

This discussion reminds me of a promise I made to myself pertaining to sailing. I enjoy sailing but I live in the north and I only enjoy it in the warmer spring, summer and fall months. I have always wanted to own a boat, but I am put off by the high cost of purchase, ownership and maintenance. As a result I have always rented or chartered boats. I promised myself that I will not buy a sailboat until I actually rent or charter a boat at least once a week for the 12 weeks between mid June and mid September. I figure if I put in the time and money to go sailing once a week for each week of the summer then I will be ready to buy a boat. And every summer I only find the time to go sailing a couple of times. Therefore, I am not ready to actually buy a boat.

You jumped in and misread the whole thing, didn't you? My point is, that the bike purchase should be the one that meets your needs, expectations, goals, and objectives... not the one that costs "X" dollars. The Hardrock was used for exactly what it was supposed to be used for! You didn't buy that $350 Hardrock to go on club road rides and do road races on the weekends, did you?

You may have misunderstood my use of the term "cycling." I am using it to describe a sport. Like "cycling" televised on Versus... road racing... the Tour de' France. So... if you are "into" that kind of "cycling" on any level... you won't find to many other participants on a Specialized Hardrock. I think the "cycling" that you are speaking of is what I call "commuting."

I "misread"? Right...You posted this in General Cycling Discussion, not Road Cycling or Road Racing. In your original post you mention "commuting, road racing, touring, and cyclocross." I don't know, maybe I'm just slow but I certainly didn't pick up on the fact that we were solely discussing road bikes for the purpose of racing. Or is that group rides? You seem to be flip flopping back and forth in between the two .throughout this thread in between talking about how much money you've spent on cycling gear, which I'm beginning to believe is the main reason you started this thread.

I started out cycling again, after not doing much since childhood and some short commuting and path riding in college, on a $700 road bike. For me, it was an awesome bike when I bought and still an ok bike 5 years later when I sold it to my dad. I did various club rides on it, some organized rides, and a few solo centuries including a 143 mile, one day ride to a friend's house for a BBQ. I lost close to 40 lbs. riding that bike too. I only sold it because it became redundant after purchasing another road bike and then a very road bike-like commuter. The price of the bike certainly never held me back. I out rode plenty of people on more expensive bikes and people on less expensive bikes out rode me too.

If anyone is "flip flopping" it's njkayaker. As you can see, he goes back and edits every post after his arguments have been trashed.

Fenders $85
Powder coating $90
brass hardware for mud flaps $35
Leather mud flaps $40
Tax and shipping $50

They look good. They won't crack as easily as the planet bike fenders. The planet bike fenders don't come with quality hardware and mudflaps. I don't spend nearly the amount of time cleaning the drive train. And riders that ride behind me appreciate the fact that they don't get road spray in their faces on wet roads.

I only see the powder coating as a splurge. The guy at the LBS had planet bike fenders and SKS fenders to sell me. However, he said it too... "you get what you pay for." The berthouds will last longer than the planet bikes. The function is about the same. I could have added mud flaps to the plastic planet bikes but drilling a hole and adding the hardware would have significantly weakened the planet bike fenders.

So maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Go to the LBS and ask them which is a better fender - berthoud stainless steel or planet bike plastic. I also bought what I could afford.

Planet Bike Cascadias have very good long mudflaps already installed. Many cyclotourists use them. Actually there are LBS people that do tell folks to buy SKS or PLanet Bike,mine for example,and including Rivendell. Nothing wrong with your choice very nice fenders,noisy and harder to install but classy for sure. Considered them for my new tourer but thought the PB's though not as nice to look at, but more practical as they are going to take a beating.

Many people think a bike is just a bike (ie, they are all the same). Many people think they can get a "magic" bike for very little money.

Having a budget is reasonable. It just has to be a reasonable budget. The problem is.. [see first paragraph]



People have no idea about the first stuff. They do understand dollars (and they are cheap). GOTO: first paragraph.

This is the core problem; as I see/express it, people ignore the fact that, since 1975, nearly everything has gone up 500% or more -- gas was 40c/gallon, a Big Mac was 55c, a pack of cigarettes was 50c, a new Firebird was $5000, and a good bike could be had new for $100-150. Now, a basic car is $20K, gas is nearly $3/gallon, a Big Mac is like $2.75, cigarettes are $5/pack... and a good new bike can be had for <=$1000. But people don't get it; they think a good bike can still be had, NEW, for $100, and go nuts WHEN, not if, it doesn't work out that way.

$100 Wal-Mart Mongoose =/= a good bike. $75 Wal-Mart Roadmaster = boat anchor.

Two types I just LOOOVE:

1. "That bike has to have (insert impossible condition here) before I spend MY money on it! If I'm spending $100, it's gotta be PERFECT!"
2. The ones who think there's no difference between a Wally bike and an LBS bike except price.

It's a sad truth that a 90's bike from just about ANYONE is likely better than a new bike from a box store.

Planet Bike Cascadias have very good long mudflaps already installed. Many cyclotourists use them. Actually there are LBS people that do tell folks to buy SKS or PLanet Bike,mine for example,and including Rivendell. Nothing wrong with your choice very nice fenders,noisy and harder to install but classy for sure. Considered them for my new tourer but thought the PB's though not as nice to look at, but more practical as they are going to take a beating.

I'm sure that LBS people sell a lot of SKS and Planet Bike fenders. They are good products. The LBS bike shop wrench took a look at my bike, asked me what kind of riding I do, and said that the best fenders for my bike would be the berthouds. He has them on his bike and he said they have been great. He said, "they aren't bombproof, but they are about as close as you can get." He said that they could be powder coated any color I like and that the powder coating would also provide additional protection from the elements. If I couldn't afford them, I would have bought Planet Bikes. However, the mud flaps on the PB's were not nearly as long as the ones that I purchased.

Biking is expensive, you should only buy what you can afford. If you can't afford the bike you need then hold off the purchase to save up more or buy something cheaper.
...
I think the decision should be made by the person buying the bike :)

Cycling is as expensive as the person buying the bicycle wants to make it. The best part is that it's pretty much free after you make your initial investment, try saying something like that about golf or car ownership.

This thread is funny...

My argument is that if you're not going to use it... don't buy it. Or, if you're only going to use it occassionally, borrow or rent a bike. I would rather throw my money down the disposal than buy a bike and store it in my garage (takes up less space.)

I don't really ride with a "racing crowd" so they aren't always upgrading their equipment. Many of them ride reasonably lightweight steel frames with 7, 8, and 9 speed drive trains. I would say that more than half of the people in the group ride frames that are 10+ years old. In the touring bike community, I think you will find many that ride the same bike they were touring on back in the 70's and 80's. I plan using my touring bike as a commuter for well beyond 15 years.

People that do upgrade their equipment for the newer technology still seem to keep the old bike around. When I go on a group ride in foul weather, I see a lot of the people bring out the old bike as their "rain bike." I can see myself doing the same thing in another 10 years or so. If you regularly ride a bike, it is not passed it's useful life. A good quality, older bike is a great bike to have around as a loaner for a friend, or someone visiting from out of town, or a back up for when your main ride has a mechanical problem.

+1...I do keep my old running shoes around for rain days, might as well have a rain bike. And the LBS charges $30 a day for a rental, maybe i could charge $15 and start recouping money! + another 1 for business opportunity!

Just to be clear, I completely understand that Lance Armstrong's $15,000 bike is not five times faster than my $3000 road bike. I ride at about 17-18 mph... Lance doesn't ride his bike at 85-90 mph. In fact, Lance could ride my bike and it would only reduce his speed by 1-2 mph - so $$$'s don't have a direct relationship to performance.

Another reason why I wouldn't spend a lot on a bike is because there are too many fools on the trails/roads, bikers, cars, runners, i wouldn't want my expensive bike around any of them! When i learned a partner at my work was riding lance's bike i didn't want to be within 30 feet of the guy! Crash into a $15k bike and then get fired...no thanks!

This thread reminds me of that "arguing on the internet (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8620/arguingwt8.jpg)" image. ** Disclaimer: I think the special olympics do a great thing and I'm not trying to disrespect anyone. The image is just funny and bad.

InTheRain, I'd really love to see your bike. Sounds awesome. Do you have any pics please? :)

I'll show you mine if you show me yours. ;)

I have been in a lot of forums over the years and this type of discussion almost always pops up sooner or later. When I first got into Astronomy I dropped into the Astronomy forums and asked the same questions as we do in the Cycling forums. People buy or try things for different reasons and dropping the dime on an item before you “know’ for sure how long your commitment last or the direction that commitment take is just as suspect as starting out with a bit of timidity. I was told in the Astronomy forums that there was no reason not to just save up for an expensive scope because I wouldn’t be happy with an entry level one. I bought a used light bucket from the head of our astronomy club and for a year or two was very happy looking at DSOs with a high powered scope. But today I prefer Astronomical Binoculars because of the wider FOV.
Cycling is a lot like any other activity when you first get into it. You think you know what you want but until you get into it you don’t “know” what you will need. That is why most cyclists understand the N+1 formula. Trying to put a spread sheet to human activity or desire is a waste of time and effort. It might be interesting in theory but in reality it all flies out the window once a customer walks into a store.

InTheRain, I'd really love to see your bike. Sounds awesome. Do you have any pics please? :)

I'll show you mine if you show me yours. ;)

You're interested in seeing a couple of dirty bikes that have been ridden InTheRain? I don't consider them to be really great looking bikes. I guess they could be, if I cleaned them after every ride. Parts and accessories on the bikes were purchased mostly for functionality, performance, and durability. But yeah, one day I could put some pics up... only to hear the criticism.

I have OCD so I'm gonna lecture on keeping dirty bikes. :eek: Shame on you!! :p

But seriously, I'm always interested in seeing someone's bikes. This is a bike forum after all!

In regards to your question, many have already said most of the answers but for me personally, I try to get the best that I can feasibly justify for. I just purchased a hybrid bike for running errands and such on sale for $470. For what it has, a comparable bike of another brand runs about $200 more.

My mtn bike, the full suspension, was also on sale but that bike ran a pretty penny. I love that bike and I feel no need to get anything more because of my needs in terms of my riding advancement.

My road bike is another story. I got a bike that is way above what I would consider even spending for a roadie since.......well, I couldn't ride road because of the position and my bulging disk. But because I had to have it special made, I ended up having to spend quite a bit. The bike fits me perfect, I don't have pain (like I did when I test rode roadies) and can ride for hours on it.

Edit: The offer is still on for the pics. I'll post all three of the above if you post your *ahem* dirty bikes.

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So... you spent $2000 on a $1500 bike??? Where I work, they call that mis-management. We don't get the "$500 try it and see if you like it." Most of us that cycle a lot have made the same mistake. I just think if you say you are going to do it... then do it! If you say you are going to give it a try... just recognize that it's probably going to cost you the $500 to "try it."

If you are a person that comes onto the forums and says, "I'm going to do it." Why not skip the $500 "try it" step? If you go into saying I'm going to "ride the bike around the neighborhood" and "I'm going to ride it 5-10 miles to work" then the $500 bike is fine. And if your needs change, then you buy a new bike to meet those needs. However, If you say I'm going to do fitness rides with the club, or go on cross country touring, or ride cyclocross, then there aren't a lot of $500 bikes that fit the bill. If you actually follow through and do those things, I will guarantee that you won't be doing them very long on the $500 bike.

I'm just hoping people will make a purchase based on their needs... not their budget, because in the long run... you will buy what you need (and if you know what that is now, why not buy it now?)

For me, I didn't know exactly what I wanted / needed when I got my first bike. My primary concern was "The local transit is going on strike, I want a way to get into work".

The idea of biking 100km in a day seemed silly to me at the time, and I just wanted/needed a beat around bike. Was my first time buying a bike since high-school.

So, yeah - a $500 bike at the time seemed perfectly reasonable. At the time, I wasn't looking into doing long-distance rides, multi-day touring, etc.

Then, I got peddling, and more so in the 2nd year of having my bike - I started to do longer distances, riding more often, and my needs / desires out of a bike changed. This resulted in me gifting my old bike to my friend, and buying a new bike that better fits my new needs.

I think that there are a lot of people that 'first get into it' in a similar way. They don't really know what they need / want, they mostly want a 'commuter bike', and after they get riding a bit - either their needs change, or they realize what their actual needs are.

I guess one point I'll agree on with you : If someone is specifically looking into getting into racing / cyclo cross / touring / triathlons / etc, and know "yes, I am getting this bike so I can race" -- then I do think that budget should factor a bit less into the picture.

But for someone that's just buying a bike for the first time in a few years, doesn't really know their full 'needs' yet or how they plan on biking, I don't think having a budget in mind is a bad thing

$100 Wal-Mart Mongoose =/= a good bike. $75 Wal-Mart Roadmaster = boat anchor.




That's funny. I decided to fix up the daughter's SO's Wally Mongoose, and road it to their house yesterday, you could have fooled me that it didn't belong on the end of a chain, several fathoms under water.

I recently picked up a mid 80s Univega Gran Rally off an old friend's front lawn. He had bought it new just to have a bike to cruise around the neighborhood on. This was a high end bike, Shimano 600 components & sew-up tires. He's about 5'6". The frame is way to big for him (57 cm) but perfect for me. It was ridden 3-4 times & then left to rot in the backyard. Not an enjoyable bike for him to ride at all. Could have saved several hundred bucks & bought a low-end mountain bike or a beach cruiser. Might have ended up with a love of riding. I've just finished refurbishing it. What piece of jewelry this bike is. It's going on Craigslist but priced high so's I can ride it a long time.

Some of the regular riders around here are riding bikes that are mediocre at best, but fit their style better than a "serious" road bike. Got the local eccentric with a custom made wooden crate on back of his hybrid. You'll see this guy everywhere- slow but steady.

For me, I didn't know exactly what I wanted / needed when I got my first bike. My primary concern was "The local transit is going on strike, I want a way to get into work".

The idea of biking 100km in a day seemed silly to me at the time, and I just wanted/needed a beat around bike. Was my first time buying a bike since high-school.

So, yeah - a $500 bike at the time seemed perfectly reasonable. At the time, I wasn't looking into doing long-distance rides, multi-day touring, etc.

Then, I got peddling, and more so in the 2nd year of having my bike - I started to do longer distances, riding more often, and my needs / desires out of a bike changed. This resulted in me gifting my old bike to my friend, and buying a new bike that better fits my new needs.

I think that there are a lot of people that 'first get into it' in a similar way. They don't really know what they need / want, they mostly want a 'commuter bike', and after they get riding a bit - either their needs change, or they realize what their actual needs are.

I guess one point I'll agree on with you : If someone is specifically looking into getting into racing / cyclo cross / touring / triathlons / etc, and know "yes, I am getting this bike so I can race" -- then I do think that budget should factor a bit less into the picture.

But for someone that's just buying a bike for the first time in a few years, doesn't really know their full 'needs' yet or how they plan on biking, I don't think having a budget in mind is a bad thing

I agree with everything you said. My point has been throughout the entire thread that budget should not be such a big factor in the decision for someone that knows what they want (and they list it in the criteria for a bike recommendation.)

If you don't know what you want, I'm perfectly fine with getting anything with two wheels just to start riding.

I agree with everything you said. My point has been throughout the entire thread that budget should not be such a big factor in the decision for someone that knows what they want (and they list it in the criteria for a bike recommendation.)

Isn't that blindingly obvious?

And isnt it also a bit disingenuous to talk about beginners buying their first bike (which is where most of those "what $500 bike to get" posts come from) and somehow bring in what people who know what they want (ie, not beginners) should do?

Or is there some nuance to it that I am missing?

V.

Isn't that blindingly obvious?
Yes.


Or is there some nuance to it that I am missing?
Yes, people want great stuff to be cheap. (Never mind, that's obvious too!)


Many people think a bike is just a bike (ie, they are all the same). Many people think they can get a "magic" bike for very little money.

Having a budget is reasonable. It just has to be a reasonable budget. The problem is.. [see first paragraph]


My point is, that the bike purchase should be the one that meets your needs, expectations, goals, and objectives... not the one that costs "X" dollars.

People have no idea about the first stuff. They do understand dollars (and they are cheap). GOTO: first paragraph.