Road Bike Racing - Landis to Phonak

I just read at PezCycling.com that Floyd has left USPS/Discovery and
has signed with Phonak.
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=2527
Also read (buried in cyclingnews) that Levi Leipheimer is leaving (alliteration)
Rabobank, no signing yet but strong offers from USPS/Discovery and T-Mobile.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/aug04/aug25news2

Gonna be interesting next year.

Marty

Yeah, I saw Landis at Starbucks last Saturday, and he was talking about his new team. I guess he's leaving for Holland at the end of the year to begin training, from what he told us. I thought this was announced already?

Remember the Tour de France, when they were saying during the Tour that Levi was negotiating a contract with the new Discovery team? It would be nice to see his bald head on the team, and with him living in California, it may be easier for him to stay closer to home, I would think.

Any news on Axel yet?

Koffee

So I dont get it. Why would Landis sign with Phonak when Tyler is the Captain? I'm going to assume money at this point but couldnt USPS/Discovery counter the offer?

No word on Axel.
Wonder if he is going to be riding classics since he's going to Holland?
I think he would be a good classic rider, and just goes to show that
USPS/Discovery isn't serious about 1 days.

Marty (77er)

So I dont get it. Why would Landis sign with Phonak when Tyler is the Captain? I'm going to assume money at this point but couldnt USPS/Discovery counter the offer?


Yeah that does seem kinda weird, I mean if he's leaving for $$$ then ok. If it is to get control of a team it would seem he's in the same situation as USPS/Discovery.

Earlier, we'd all been discussing his option of either going with CSC or Phonak. I guess CSC just didn't have the money, so he signed with Phonak. Maybe he'd like to focus more on the classics and realizes that the Discovery team just doesn't do that? Maybe if he does, it will make him feel like he's a more well rounded cyclist, then in 2006, he can find a team where he can actually be the team leader.

Speculation, speculation, speculation... why didn't I ask when I saw him this weekend!!! Guess I was just trying to be polite...

Koffee

Earlier, we'd all been discussing his option of either going with CSC or Phonak. I guess CSC just didn't have the money, so he signed with Phonak. Maybe he'd like to focus more on the classics and realizes that the Discovery team just doesn't do that? Maybe if he does, it will make him feel like he's a more well rounded cyclist, then in 2006, he can find a team where he can actually be the team leader.

Speculation, speculation, speculation... why didn't I ask when I saw him this weekend!!! Guess I was just trying to be polite...

Koffee

Well next season will be with ProTour so all the teams will ride what Classics are left on the schedule. Unless there is something going on with Tyler at Phonak or the relationship with LA had deteriorated at USPS/Discovery I'm confused. Honestly from the outside in FL would have been better off with CSC even for less dough. The other question is has CSC got the new sponsor they were seeking? That could have been why FL went to Phonak instead. If Riis couldn't guarantee that the money would be there it may have sent him Phonak.

Tyler is the head of Phonak, for now.
Everyone seems to forget, he's about the same age as Lance, and will most likely be looking to quit before too long.

. Honestly from the outside in FL would have been better off with CSC even for less dough. The other question is has CSC got the new sponsor they were seeking? That could have been why FL went to Phonak instead. If Riis couldn't guarantee that the money would be there it may have sent him Phonak.

That's exactly what I was saying...

Koffee

I'll get ripped to pieces by the Posties here, but as talented as Floyd is, he's no team leader. He was never a serious GC contender and the fact that he's almost 30 doesn't make him any more of a threat. He's a great support rider and should fit in well at Phonak.

I'll get ripped to pieces by the Posties here, but as talented as Floyd is, he's no team leader. He was never a serious GC contender and the fact that he's almost 30 doesn't make him any more of a threat. He's a great support rider and should fit in well at Phonak.


You could be right, but to be honest I thought the same thing of Tyler when he left USPS. I really expected Bobby J to be the real threat.

Koffee I was just agreeing with you and adding the bit about CSC's sponsorship search.

Laggard,

nah the posties won't rip you up, they've got lance. . . :D
All I can say is it will be interesting to see what FL says in
the press.
I don't know, maybe he saw the writing on the wall with the new
signings at Discovery, didn't leave much chance of him being GC guy.

Marty

I could believe that, but Floyd already made the decision to leave Discovery just days after the Tour ended, before the other guys got signed. Maybe he just has some advance notice from Discovery what they'll be focussing on, and maybe it doesn't match his vision, especially if he thinks he can do more than what they typically do. So why not go with a team that will give him more opportunity?

Sad to see him go, though, even if he is looking forward to it!

Koffee

Go LEVI! I love doing this i think I'v edone it to every thread he's mentioned in, except for that stupid "helmet tan" one, grrrrrr!

Floyd's leaving was reported on velonews.com yesterday. There are direct quotes from Johan Bruyneel. Postal had an option on the contract and was ready to match Phonak's offer but they did not want Floyd to feel like they were forcing him to stay.

What does moving to Holland have to do with riding the classics. There are more classics in Belgium. If he wanted to focus on the classics wouldn't he move to Belgium. USPS has what they call a "classics" team. These guys stay in Belgium almost the entire spring. If Floyd wanted to do more classics, I am sure he could talk to Johan and do more of these races. George and Eki are also vital members of the Tour team but they do most of the classics.

Floyd's leaving was reported on velonews.com yesterday. There are direct quotes from Johan Bruyneel. Postal had an option on the contract and was ready to match Phonak's offer but they did not want Floyd to feel like they were forcing him to stay.

What does moving to Holland have to do with riding the classics. There are more classics in Belgium. If he wanted to focus on the classics wouldn't he move to Belgium. USPS has what they call a "classics" team. These guys stay in Belgium almost the entire spring. If Floyd wanted to do more classics, I am sure he could talk to Johan and do more of these races. George and Eki are also vital members of the Tour team but they do most of the classics.

Because he currently lives in Spain so he can train for GC races.

BTW...the Popovych signing made Floyd feel that maybe his opportunities might be brighter, elsewhere.

Laggard's right...I really looked at Floyd as more of a domestique for grand tours and a classics rider but not a day to day GC rider. Kind of a smaller version of Hincapie. I thought that maybe this spring he might really provide more impetus to the Discovery classics effort.

BTWII...Axel is not coming to Discovery, staying with what will be the morphed Lotto/Domo team for next season. I understand they are losing Domo and it will be Omega Pharma-Lotto, but I think that Omega is part of Davitamon and it may be that Quick Step/Davitamon will lose Davitamon to the Lotto group.
Sheesh....you need a program to keep up with the sponsor and team changes.

I'll get ripped to pieces by the Posties here, but as talented as Floyd is, he's no team leader. He was never a serious GC contender and the fact that he's almost 30 doesn't make him any more of a threat. He's a great support rider and should fit in well at Phonak.
agreed

Kind of dopey Q, but what is meant by "classics" and "gc" races?

agreed

Seconded!

I don't quite get what the big deal is about the guy, he was strong for what, 2-3 days in the TdF this year and all the sudden he's Grand Tour GC material? He's obviously a strong rider and would be an asset to just about any team, but I don't quite get all the "team leader" talk.

Andrew

Seconded!

I don't quite get what the big deal is about the guy, he was strong for what, 2-3 days in the TdF this year and all the sudden he's Grand Tour GC material? He's obviously a strong rider and would be an asset to just about any team, but I don't quite get all the "team leader" talk.

Andrew

I agree that he is a great support rider, I think that most of us assume that he's leaving to become a team leader. I mean if you are going support a rider why not stay and support LA? He must have other ambitions than to just leave USPS/Discovery and support Tyler. As for the Classics I read in CycleSport that Eki and George are co-team leaders for the Classics campaigns.

GC is grand tour, i.e. Tour de France, Vuelta a Espana, or Giro d'Italia.
(and others, these are the big 3).
Classics are the one day classic rides, like Het Volk, 3 days of de Panne (and don't
ask me the flemish names), and my persona fav Paris Roubaix.

Different type of rider, GC types train for long tours (Lance for example)
Classics riders train for one day races (Rebellin, Bettini etc).

hope that helps,
Marty

Kind of dopey Q, but what is meant by "classics" and "gc" races?


The Classics are generally one day races like (pardon my spelling here) Liege-Bastone-Liege, Paris-Robouix, Tour of Flander etc. While the GC events include all of the "Grand Tours" like the Tour de France, Giro d' Italia and the Vaulta Espania. The difference is that in GC event you are racing for multiple days and your "score" is caclulated by the overall time it takes to complete the tour. A one day Classic is just that the first guy accross the finish line wins.

It should be noted that not all one day races are classics.

There are five monuments in cycling. They are Milan San Remo, Tour of Flanders, Paris Roubaix, Liege Bastogne Liege and the Tour of Lombardy.

A dollar to the first person who can tell us how many riders have won them all.

There are five monuments in cycling. They are Milan San Remo, Tour of Flanders, Paris Roubaix, Liege Bastogne Liege and the Tour of Lombardy.

A dollar to the first person who can tell us how many riders have won them all.
Three: Van Looy, Merckx and De Vlaeminck.

Can I get the dollar in Pool Points, instead? :)

So because he's been a domestique, he's not allowed to try and go for a GC leadership in the future? :rolleyes:

So what if he wants to try and go for it. It's his perogative, and if he ever does decide to go for the number 1, it's his perogative to try it, no matter what the naysayers think. God, I feel sorry for the people who think in the mindset that they'll always be the followers and never the leaders....

Koffee

The Giro, the Tour and the Vuelta are Grand Tours (GTs) which - as folks have explained - have a GC, or General Classificaton.

All but overlooked in the explanations above are the shorter Stage races. This is the area that I'd expect to see Landis do well. I really don't think he's captain material for a GT.

Speaking of shorter stage races... You crazy Postal fans must really be enjoying the Tour of Holland, huh?

Tour of Holland? You mean there are other races? ;)

That would be amazing if Eki could win it two years in a row. At his age? Damn.

I asked, "Why would Floyd move to Holland to train for the classics?" I know that he curently lives in Spain to train for GC races. If Floyd felt that he needed to move to train better for the classics, wouldn't the smart move be to Belgium rather than Holland? There are more classics and more classics riders Belgium than there are in Holland.
BTW-George Hincapie trains for the classics and he lives near Floyd in Spain. If he wants to do better in the classics, should he move to Holland as well? My brother in law rides for USPS and is on the classics team. During the season he lives down the street from Floyd and George in Girona, Spain. It's convenient to live near your teammates and the guys feel comfortable in Girona. Fred Rodriquez who is definitely not a GC rider lives in Girona as well.

I forgot to mention to lotek that the 3 days of de panne is not a one day classic ride.

I asked, "Why would Floyd move to Holland to train for the classics?" I know that he curently lives in Spain to train for GC races. If Floyd felt that he needed to move to train better for the classics, wouldn't the smart move be to Belgium rather than Holland? There are more classics and more classics riders Belgium than there are in Holland.
BTW-George Hincapie trains for the classics and he lives near Floyd in Spain. If he wants to do better in the classics, should he move to Holland as well? My brother in law rides for USPS and is on the classics team. During the season he lives down the street from Floyd and George in Girona, Spain. It's convenient to live near your teammates and the guys feel comfortable in Girona. Fred Rodriquez who is definitely not a GC rider lives in Girona as well.


hmmmm....according to this article, nothing's been decided yet.."Americans on the move" article (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/aug04/aug27news2)

I know all about Belgium. I used to live there. See the little flag next to my handle?

Maybe you could ask your brother-in-law what's up with Floyd and tell the rest of us. He'd probably also tell you that they classics were pretty much used as training races for July. But now with the changes in how UCI regulates the Division I trade teams, they will be taking this a lot more seriously. Thus the additional riders that they are acquiring.

I know all about Belgium. I used to live there. See the little flag next to my handle?

Maybe you could ask your brother-in-law what's up with Floyd and tell the rest of us. He'd probably also tell you that they classics were pretty much used as training races for July. But now with the changes in how UCI regulates the Division I trade teams, they will be taking this a lot more seriously. Thus the additional riders that they are acquiring.

Hmmmmm, I don't know ALL about Belgium, and I've never lived there, but I know that USPS has had some very fine results in the spring classics now for the past five years that would be hard to interpret as training riding.

Ekimov: 3rd Paris Roubaix, 8th and 15th Rhonde

Hincapie: 4th/1st/3rd/4th Gent, 4th/6th/4th/6th/8th Paris Roubaix, 13th/4th/10th Rhonde, 9th/9th/13th Milan San Remo

Van Heeswijk: 2nd Het Volk, 3rd Classic Haribo, 9th Gent, 5th Milan San Remo

Pretty hard training. ;)

Road Warrior-I recognize your flag. I didn't know that you know all about Belgium though. The reason I even mentioned Belgium is because you quoted my question and thought you had an answer for why Floyd would be moving to Holland to train for the classics. You stated that he now lives in Spain to train for stage races. Your answer didn't seem to make any sense to me. Like I said, Fred Rodriguez lives in Girona, Spain as well and even Fred will tell you he is not a GC rider. You stated that the spring races are just training for July, however, some of the guys that USPS sends to the world cups and other classics don't ride the tour. I would agree with Don D. that some of the rider's results are excellent results for "training" races. When the team tells my brother in law that he will be doing all of the spring races he doesn't consider them training, he arrives ready to race. Most of the guys have an eye on July but they know they have jobs to do and having a Belgian presenting sponsor makes the spring races, especially the ones in Belgium, very important. The Pro Tour does make the Spring races very important but USPS/Discovery's biggest signing has been a GC rider. They haven't picked up any one day riders.
BTW-I wouldn't bug my brother in law about this gossip right now. He is in Europe racing and preparing for the Vuelta. When he does talk to me about what is going on with the team, I wouldn't put it on here before the team or the rider wanted the information released. The only reason I commented in this thread is because I wanted to know how someone who has never even done any of the races in question would know that living in Holland would be better preperation for one day races thean living in Spain. Remember that Fred Rodriguez and George Hincapie got 2nd and 3rd at Gent-Wevelgem in 2002. That race is in Belgium, of course you know that. They were living and training in Spain.

Hmmmmm, I don't know ALL about Belgium, and I've never lived there, but I know that USPS has had some very fine results in the spring classics now for the past five years that would be hard to interpret as training riding.

Ekimov: 3rd Paris Roubaix, 8th and 15th Rhonde

Hincapie: 4th/1st/3rd/4th Gent, 4th/6th/4th/6th/8th Paris Roubaix, 13th/4th/10th Rhonde, 9th/9th/13th Milan San Remo

Van Heeswijk: 2nd Het Volk, 3rd Classic Haribo, 9th Gent, 5th Milan San Remo

Pretty hard training. ;)

Yep...

Six straight Tours...

and don't forget a Vuelta, too... :eek: :D

Not bad for a team that most seem to think "only rides the Tour" (I was making a point here, and you helped me)...

It occurred to me the other day while talking cycle racing with a customer in the bike shop...Bruyneel is undefeated as DS in the Tour.
Between that and the results you show above, I guess he knows what he is doing. :D

I forgot to mention to lotek that the 3 days of de panne is not a one day classic ride.
well, ok I'll give you that. But its sure not a Grand Tour, eh?
it is a classic.

Marty

it is a classic. Marty

Uh, not, but nice try. :)