Advocacy & Safety - safe drivers anywhere

i hear alot on this board about run ins and close calls with drivers. for anyone that has lived in various parts of the country do you find some parts of the country where drivers are more courteous to bicycle people?

Wherever you gain courteous drivers, you lose out due to the increase of arrogant cyclists.

-Kurt

Also, there is such a thing as too much courtesy, although I appreciate the sentiment, I guess.

I have a lot of excessively courteous drivers here... they are constantly trying to yield their right of way to me. I'll be stopped at a stop sign, and someone in a through-lane will stop and motion for me to go... across three other lanes of traffic that isn't stopping. No thanks. By the time we sort it all out, I've usually lost my balance and unclipped, and an opportunity for me to cross like any other vehicle has usually been missed. Try that a few times a day, and it gets old pretty fast.

Yeah I love when well meaning motorists surprise me with courtesy that doesn't help me. I love when I want to change lanes cars unexpectedly slow down and let me, usually I'm not expecting this at all and as a result have trouble taking this opportunity or only do so awkwardly. Because I'm expecting discourteous drivers when they do give me right of way I don't know what to do with it.

Wherever you gain courteous drivers, you lose out due to the increase of arrogant cyclists.

-Kurt
Stopped at a traffic light today I saw a jackhole on a fixie on the other side dive right across the intersection dodging the cars. Gives all riders a bad rep.

Stopped at a traffic light today I saw a jackhole on a fixie on the other side dive right across the intersection dodging the cars. Gives all riders a bad rep.

Sounds like a job for National Cycling Week:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25-YgQ5pwSw

-Kurt

i hear alot on this board about run ins and close calls with drivers. for anyone that has lived in various parts of the country do you find some parts of the country where drivers are more courteous to bicycle people?I guess I get to be the first to give an answer to your actual question.

There are significant differences between areas/cities as to how cyclist are treated. The rudest motorist that I have routinely encountered during commuting were in the greater Washington DC area.

But the answer will change over time, as Oahu was extremely friendly to cycle in. But that started changing in 1995 with increases of traffic congestion. From 1995 to 1998, CDL truck drivers became extremely rude and dangerous towards cyclist. In 1998, their insurance companies threatened the union with pulling out of the Hawaii market. Within one weeks time, the CDL truck drivers became extremely polite to cyclist. Sadly, most tourist bus drivers and some private motorist currently are less than friendly towards cyclist.

One of the other BF members says Lincoln, NE has very friendly motorist. He claims most of the bad motorist are from Omaha.

i hear alot on this board about run ins and close calls with drivers. for anyone that has lived in various parts of the country do you find some parts of the country where drivers are more courteous to bicycle people?

Courtesy towards cyclists, is non-existent in the D.C.-Metro region. But in Windham County(Vermont) where I lived during most of my K-12 years, I bet hostility towards cyclists non-existent.

Courtesy towards cyclists, is non-existent in the D.C.-Metro region. But in Windham County(Vermont) where I lived during most of my K-12 years, I bet hostility towards cyclists non-existent.

Dude, it ain't just cyclists. D.C. residents are rude to everyone.

i hear alot on this board about run ins and close calls with drivers. for anyone that has lived in various parts of the country do you find some parts of the country where drivers are more courteous to bicycle people?

Places where the speed limits are quite slow and the roads are not designed for the primary use of motorists... I found Davis, CA to be pretty nice, as there are so many cyclists there that motorists have learned to watch for them... of course this doesn't mean that a motorist new to the area won't behave well.

I had an incident this morning in my neighborhood. Some jackhole's passenger (probably husband...) looks my direction as I'm pedaling up the street, then this vehicle just proceeds to pull out of the driveway. I'm sure the dumb hillbilly probably told his wife, "Don't worry, he'll stop if he doesn't wanna get hit." Ironically, this is the same jackhole with the 3 dogs that strut out of the garage at full bark anytime I ride by. No, the dogs are not on leashes.

Due to their ignorance all around, I think I'll just take it upon myself to contact the HOA regarding their dogs in retaliation. :twitchy:

Locally, most motorists are fairly decent, but there's always that small percentage of yahoos that are either clueless, just don't care, or outright belligerent towards cyclists. The same goes for my encounters with other cyclists, just yesterday, my closest encounter was a woman cyclist who came within a foot of side impacting me while I was 3/4 or more of the way through an intersection.

I've found drivers and, for that matter, cyclists generally courteous and competent wherever I ride.

I've found drivers and, for that matter, cyclists generally courteous and competent wherever I ride.

Please ride down here sometime.

-Kurt

yesterday some teens yelled something out their car window as they passed me and scared the crap out of me. I caught up them at a light and stuck my head 1/2 way into their window and shouted - got anything to say now little man? - the kid almost had a hear attack - it was great

yesterday some teens yelled something out their car window as they passed me and scared the crap out of me. I caught up them at a light and stuck my head 1/2 way into their window and shouted - got anything to say now little man? - the kid almost had a hear attack - it was great

I'm jealous -- I never catch 'em! 'Course, they run reds around here like it's the national pastime.

yesterday some teens yelled something out their car window as they passed me and scared the crap out of me. I caught up them at a light and stuck my head 1/2 way into their window and shouted - got anything to say now little man? - the kid almost had a hear attack - it was great

Truly epic! I wish I were there to witness that!

Sounds like a job for National Cycling Week:

-Kurt
Freaking Hilarious!
Thanks for the link.

I've found drivers and, for that matter, cyclists generally courteous and competent wherever I ride.
+1
I encounter very few bad drivers, in fact some are overly courteous, yielding me the right-of-way when it would make more sense for them to just proceed.

scaring that kid was so perfect and funny to me I couldn't help but smile, and I wasn't really angry. the kid caught his breath and I told them to "be careful out there" he smiled and asked: "can I shake your hand" and I said "NO!" and rode off. even though it wasn't an angry encounter my andreneline was still pumped and it was fun to enjoy the added burst of energy. It took them a really long time to catch up to me again. when they passed again he shouted something else but I couldn't make it out, and it was half hearted anyway. whatever, they won't easily forget the scare, and hopefully they will realize they are not in a bubble and not imperveous to retribution

scaring that kid was so perfect and funny to me I couldn't help but smile, and I wasn't really angry. the kid caught his breath and I told them to "be careful out there" he smiled and asked: "can I shake your hand" and I said "NO!" and rode off. even though it wasn't an angry encounter my andreneline was still pumped and it was fun to enjoy the added burst of energy. It took them a really long time to catch up to me again. when they passed again he shouted something else but I couldn't make it out, and it was half hearted anyway. whatever, they won't easily forget the scare, and hopefully they will realize they are not in a bubble and not imperveous to retribution

Wow, what a punk. He talks smack, then after you pull his punk card, he wants to shake your hand, and then he talks smack again...at 50 mph. What a tough-guy! :thumb:

Safe drivers do exist.

Tokyo and surrounding country side.

I was riding up a two way road which was single lane each way up a 5% gradient. I can't climb for toffee so it was slow. I pulled over, although there was no real shoulder, to let the 4 cars behind me pass. The guy in the front car kept gesturing me to continue. So I did. This is now a 15 kmh solo plod with a personal cavalcade. Another mile on I reach down and take a chug from my bottle and then miss the cage as I try to put it back. It rolls off behind me. I'm not stopping... I couldn't take the embarrassment.

We plod on.

A couple of miles up the road I finally see a lay by and pull in. This time the 7-8 cars who were behind me go past mostly politely nodding as they do, some waving and smiling. No one stressing. Then a small truck pulls into the lay by and the driver gets out and walks towards me. I have no idea what's going to happen next. He walks up to me bows politely and hands me my water bottle which he had seen me drop and stopped to pick up.

I bow deeply say thank you and we all carry on our merry way.

That's how it should be!

Or maybe I should get better at climbing!

Safe drivers do exist.

Tokyo and surrounding country side.

I was riding up a two way road which was single lane each way up a 5% gradient. I can't climb for toffee so it was slow. I pulled over, although there was no real shoulder, to let the 4 cars behind me pass. The guy in the front car kept gesturing me to continue. So I did. This is now a 15 kmh solo plod with a personal cavalcade. Another mile on I reach down and take a chug from my bottle and then miss the cage as I try to put it back. It rolls off behind me. I'm not stopping... I couldn't take the embarrassment.

We plod on.

A couple of miles up the road I finally see a lay by and pull in. This time the 7-8 cars who were behind me go past mostly politely nodding as they do, some waving and smiling. No one stressing. Then a small truck pulls into the lay by and the driver gets out and walks towards me. I have no idea what's going to happen next. He walks up to me bows politely and hands me my water bottle which he had seen me drop and stopped to pick up.

I bow deeply say thank you and we all carry on our merry way.

That's how it should be!

Or maybe I should get better at climbing!

Yep, you're right, that's the way things oughta be. Good luck getting that kind of treatment here in America.

They're certainly not in the suburbs.

Places where the speed limits are quite slow and the roads are not designed for the primary use of motorists... I found Davis, CA to be pretty nice, as there are so many cyclists there that motorists have learned to watch for them... of course this doesn't mean that a motorist new to the area won't behave well.

I had the same impression in Bend, OR. Bike lanes everywhere, cyclists everywhere (in the summer), and motorist always watched for bikes and never hassled me. For the one year that I lived there, I felt like I'd found Cyclist Heaven

Anchorage, not so much. I get harassed a lot less than when I first started bike commuting up here back in '98, and I attribute this to the apparent quadrupling of cyclists out there now, summer and winter. But motorists do not watch for bikes, and less harassment =/= no harassment. If you're on the sidewalk, they will not see you. If you're in the road, they might yell and honk at you. But I get harassed about once or twice a week these days. It used to be everyday, several times per ride, and I really appreciate the progress that my city has made towards accepting cycling as a legitimate mode of transportation.

yesterday some teens yelled something out their car window as they passed me and scared the crap out of me. I caught up them at a light and stuck my head 1/2 way into their window and shouted - got anything to say now little man? - the kid almost had a hear attack - it was greatYeah, payback is great. I had a similar occurrence many years ago. Four male teens pass by and the shotgun passenger leans out and screams as loud as he can. They hit a red light, I sneak up, Mr. Shotgun is looking away, I put my head right next to his ear and give my loudest scream. He jumps up and hits his head on the top of the car. Light turns green and I ride on. Car just sits there with the driver and 2 other passenger laughing hysterically at Mr. Shotgun. So sweet.

Yeah, this happened to me as I was walking home with my girlfriend. We were going to macdonalds first and on the way these kids leaning out of the window scream at us and scare the **** outta us, so I flip them off and yell at them a bit. And then they pull into the mcdonalds parking lot. I walk in to, and they get outta their car real pissed off all like "oi mate, whatchu just shout at us? Listen bra we're gonna kick your ass if you don't give us 200 dollars" Anyway theres no way I'm paying four teenagers 200 bucks to not kick my ass so I just laughed at them as much as possible and eventually they decided I wasn't afraid of them and backed down.
What's with young people in numbers? I never behaved that way as a kid. I'm also pretty happy I didn't just fight them because 3 cop cars rolled in for some dinner moments later.

the problem with kids these days is the lack of parenting

Obviously they didn't have effective parenting, they're eating at mcDonalds.

Actually parents don't have that much effect on their kids, a lot of it has todo with their peers, which means society/culture in general. And we all know how fond our automobile culture is of cyclists.

re: "Actually parents don't have that much effect on their kids"

hahahaha ... let the firestorm begin

Dude, it ain't just cyclists. D.C. residents are rude to everyone.

It's that East Coast hospitality. Stephen King described New York and the East Coast best: "When asking for the time in New York, the appropriate protocol is to ask, 'Excuse me, sir, do you have the time, or should I go f**k myself?'"

they're not like that up here in Mass. they'll give you the time of day but don't ask for directions! that's an excuse for abuse! oh they'll give you directions alright but not to where you are going! hahaha

I think the motorists here in Central PA are generally pretty nice. However, we have our share of road-ragers just like everywhere else.

I live in a rural area. I was worried when I started riding about the locals. I have been pleasantly surprised so far. The closest I have been to being "buzzed" was by a deputy sheriff. Go figure.

Even though we have a fairly high redneck population, we don't really have very many aggressive drivers here. The worst are the trucks, but not the mud covered trucks from the country. The worst are the chromed up, city-dwelling, mid-life-crisis trucks. Other than that, it's mostly just people who have no idea how to drive, but aren't ill-intentioned.

I've found drivers and, for that matter, cyclists generally courteous and competent wherever I ride.

I too have found this to be the case.

Also, there is such a thing as too much courtesy, although I appreciate the sentiment, I guess.



This is a not uncommon scenario that is experienced in both cycling and driving. It could be courtesy, but in many cases I've seen it as timidity. A timidity that can cause confusion and potential accidents, such as in a 4-way stop when the other two cross lanes become filled during the confusion *before* the "gifted" rider/driver accepts and takes the right-of-way from the timid "giver". All it takes is one aggressive driver in the other two lanes, sensing like a predator the delayed transaction going on in the first two lanes, to steal the right-of-way and barge directly into the intersection. At the worst, he enters the intersection at the same time as the gifted rider/driver, and at the least it completely disrupts the right-of-way sequence for all four lanes of the intersection.

Actually parents don't have that much effect on their kids . . . ..

This statement is incorrect.

This statement is incorrect.

I agree with you. Put a hand to a kid's ass hard enough; it'll make more than just an impression. Sure did in my case, anyway...

I agree with you. Put a hand to a kid's ass hard enough; it'll make more than just an impression. Sure did in my case, anyway...

That may work in the short term when the child is young, but good luck with that tactic when they're older, can you say the word " teenager"?

In the spirit of the Tokyo uphill experience:

A couple of years ago I was touring in Eastern Finland, with lots of gear and towing a kayak on a trailer. I was riding on a rural road with one lane in each direction, posted speed limit 100km/h. It's about as high as they go around here. I was going on a long uphill, grade was nothing spectacular, but with all the gear and trailer I was spinning along maybe 10-15km/h. Close to top of the hill I spotted an express bus approaching fast in my handlebar mirror. There wasn't any shoulder to speak of, so the trailer extended well into the lane even though the right trailer tyre was hugging the white line. Hill top was too close, so the bus driver couldn't see far enough ahead to make a safe pass.

I fully expected him to squeeze by me at high speed, minimizing the amount of oncoming lane he takes, and the time he spends there. Being buzzed by a big vehicle feels particularly nasty with the trailer on tow. I was scanning the gutter for an emergency exit if things turned really bad. Instead, he did the professional thing and slowed down well in advance. He crawled up the remainder of the hill behind me, leaving a polite gap even, until he could see the road was clear to pass. He used the gap to accelerate and finally moved entirely over to the oncoming lane, and gave a friendly wave as he passed. I suspect he also gave an announcement over the bus PA as to why he's slowing down, because all the right side windows were plastered with passengers' faces when he passed. I was impressed.

That may work in the short term when the child is young, but good luck with that tactic when they're older, can you say the word " teenager"?

Try hiding the Playstation. They'll listen.

re: "Actually parents don't have that much effect on their kids"

hahahaha ... let the firestorm begin

Hey, nobody started a firestorm when posters were saying parents are a kids only role model...

Hey, nobody started a firestorm when posters were saying parents are a kids only role model...

Agreed.

This is a not uncommon scenario that is experienced in both cycling and driving. It could be courtesy, but in many cases I've seen it as timidity. A timidity that can cause confusion and potential accidents, such as in a 4-way stop when the other two cross lanes become filled during the confusion *before* the "gifted" rider/driver accepts and takes the right-of-way from the timid "giver". All it takes is one aggressive driver in the other two lanes, sensing like a predator the delayed transaction going on in the first two lanes, to steal the right-of-way and barge directly into the intersection. At the worst, he enters the intersection at the same time as the gifted rider/driver, and at the least it completely disrupts the right-of-way sequence for all four lanes of the intersection.

I cannot agree more. I know people are trying to be nice but it really does make everything more difficult and potentially more dangerous. It is so much easier to just follow the rules of the road.

I agree with you. Put a hand to a kid's ass hard enough; it'll make more than just an impression. Sure did in my case, anyway...

In your case, it probably gave you a concussion.

re: "Hey, nobody started a firestorm when posters were saying parents are a kids only role model..."

good point. my kids are lucky to have quite a few. helps take the pressure off me, and helps me realize my sh*t needs to be right or they won't buy it - jeez where the heck am I from?

Boy has this thread taken a real curve...

Also, there is such a thing as too much courtesy, although I appreciate the sentiment, I guess.

I have a lot of excessively courteous drivers here... they are constantly trying to yield their right of way to me. I'll be stopped at a stop sign, and someone in a through-lane will stop and motion for me to go... across three other lanes of traffic that isn't stopping. No thanks. By the time we sort it all out, I've usually lost my balance and unclipped, and an opportunity for me to cross like any other vehicle has usually been missed. Try that a few times a day, and it gets old pretty fast.

This happened to me on Friday at a controlled intersection. I was in a turn lane waiting to go left. As the light turns green (there are no protected turn arrows) the traffic on the opposing side was just sitting there waiting for me. I was already track-standing in anticipation that the five cars going the opposite way would soon be past the intersection. This did not happen - I waved the first driver through so many times, I finally unclipped and fell over. After I picked up my bike, dusted myself and my pride off, I watched in disbelief as not one, but four drivers in a row tried to offer me their right of way at a busy intersection with no protected left turn arrows. In my three years commuting I had never seen anything like it. Like brain-dead sheeple, each one in turn behaved exactly like the driver in front of them. As soon as it became apparent to them that I refused to make my left turn until the opposing traffic lane was clear (otherwise known as following the rules of the road), they all rushed through with these looks of disbelief on their faces that a bike was behaving like a car in the middle of an intersection. I won't be track-standing while yielding for a left-turn anymore - lesson learned.