Advocacy & Safety - A cyclist's life is cheap

The price to pay is 10 days in juvenile hall, to be exact...

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/04/14/1152765/teen-who-caused-crash-which-killed.html

He'll fail. Starting life at 17 with all of that pending time hanging over his head is a disaster waiting to wreck his life. Believe it.

Yes, this is disgusting. If one wants to get away with murder, a motor vehicle is the best weapon of choice.

males in their high teens and through their 20s in jeeps; mustangs and p/u trucks are the most dangerous to cyclists

Do not forget moms with cell phones and an suv/van packed with children.

Until a drunk driver plows into a high school graduation ceremony, killing dozens of sons and daughters of local lawyers, judges, politicians, policemen, and local hacks of all stripes, there will be NO REFORM in this area.

roughstuff

I've thought exactly the same thing about these wars our country starts and continues to support. Send the children of the politicians that support the wars to fight and I am sure the wars would come to an end fairly quickly, not because of a win, but rather because of the most obvious dreadful outcome.

Until a drunk driver plows into a high school graduation ceremony, killing dozens of sons and daughters of local lawyers, judges, politicians, policemen, and local hacks of all stripes, there will be NO REFORM in this area.

roughstuff

How does "drunk" get factored into this? I saw no mention of alcohol in the report. Please correct me if I am wrong.

How does "drunk" get factored into this? I saw no mention of alcohol in the report. Please correct me if I am wrong.

No you are not wrong. I threw on the alcohol reference myself, since if anything it gives a driver even MORE EXCUSE for plowing into pedestrians and cyclists.

roughstuff

No you are not wrong. I threw on the alcohol reference myself, since if anything it gives a driver even MORE EXCUSE for plowing into pedestrians and cyclists.

roughstuff

Not really. Drunk driving is the one kind of accident that at least gets SOME attention. If you're just reckless or distracted, you almost always get off with a warning, even if you kill people. Drunk drivers usually get some attention, though still not nearly enough.

10 days in juvy? Really, WTF people.

He failed to yield and killed a cyclist who was following the rules of the road. Vehicular manslaughter is what he needed to be charged with as an adult to spend at least some time behind bars in a real jail. He would have had a higher penalty if he got caught defacing road signs with spray paint.

This really just makes me sick.

I laughed when i read this 'providing information about the boy’s sentence “will remind teen drivers and their parents of a driver’s responsibility" '
What, remind them they'll only get a slap on the wrist?
though admitedly, i'd rather see him out of jail and working so his paychecks can go to the family of the victim. who knows what the settlement is.

The real irony is that the base fine for littering is higher than the
current base fine for "causing great bodily injury."

Unsafe Operation of Motor Vehicle

42001.19. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person
convicted of a violation of Section 21070 is punishable, as follows:

(a) For a violation involving bodily injury, by a fine of seventy
dollars ($70).

(b) For a violation involving great bodily injury, as defined in
Section 12022.7 of the Penal Code, by a fine of ninety-five dollars
($95).

Littering

42001.7. (a) Every person convicted of a violation of Section 23111
or 23112, or subdivision (a) of Section 23113, shall be punished by a
mandatory fine of not less than one hundred dollars ($100) nor more
than one thousand dollars ($1,000)...

Not really. Drunk driving is the one kind of accident that at least gets SOME attention. If you're just reckless or distracted, you almost always get off with a warning, even if you kill people. Drunk drivers usually get some attention, though still not nearly enough.


Yes really. Here they get elected to the US senate for 36 years.

roughstuff

The price to pay is 10 days in juvenile hall, to be exact...

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/04/14/1152765/teen-who-caused-crash-which-killed.html

Counting the community service that comes out to 22.5 days.

Yes really. Here they get elected to the US senate for 36 years.

roughstuff

In discussions I've had 'round the watercooler, at church, or whatever, as soon as people hear "the driver was drunk" they pretty much universally turn against him. And in general people with DUIs do lose license for a while. It's still not enough, and penalties do not escalate fast enough. IMO, first offense, 3 month driving ban, 2nd offense, 3 year driving ban, 3rd offense, lifetime. Plus jail time after the first. PLUS whatever the penalties are for whatever laws they broke.

The penalties we already have against being caught DUI is why it's so common for drunks to flee the scene. That's why fleeing the scene should be VERY serious - worse than any penalty you could get if you stayed. Maybe it doubles all fines/ban times/jail times, and carries its own 6 months in jail.

The problem, of course, is enforcement. It always is.

In discussions I've had 'round the watercooler, at church, or whatever, as soon as people hear "the driver was drunk" they pretty much universally turn against him. And in general people with DUIs do lose license for a while. It's still not enough, and penalties do not escalate fast enough. IMO, first offense, 3 month driving ban, 2nd offense, 3 year driving ban, 3rd offense, lifetime. Plus jail time after the first. PLUS whatever the penalties are for whatever laws they broke.

The penalties we already have against being caught DUI is why it's so common for drunks to flee the scene. That's why fleeing the scene should be VERY serious - worse than any penalty you could get if you stayed. Maybe it doubles all fines/ban times/jail times, and carries its own 6 months in jail.

The problem, of course, is enforcement. It always is.

Is the problem "enforcement" or is it the DAs taking the cases to trial? (I realize these are related, but I am trying to segregate LEOs from soft DAs and soft Judges)

Is the problem "enforcement" or is it the DAs taking the cases to trial? (I realize these are related, but I am trying to segregate LEOs from soft DAs and soft Judges)

Genec,

Let's not forget the weak/ambiguous wording some statutes that make enforcement and/or prosecution a low priority. As well as a lack of education. I mean what is the point of passing a new law if the general public isn't informed about it? What's the point of installing sharrows on certain roads if the public don't know what they mean?

I had a couple of appointments out at the local VA today. I was riding home/to the library and was riding on the only (so far) road with sharrows and got honked at a couple of times.

IMHO, drivers of all ages should lose their license after the first collision in which they are determined to be at fault. They'd be issued a month long temporary permit to allow them to continue working. However, they wouldn't be able to receive their full license again until they completed a drivers ed course. Subsequent incidents could have other punishments as needed. I know it would create a huge bureaucracy, but it might help safety if people understood that driving was a privilege, not a right. It would also give us a chance to tighten up our loose education standards.

IMHO, drivers of all ages should lose their license after the first collision in which they are determined to be at fault. They'd be issued a month long temporary permit to allow them to continue working. However, they wouldn't be able to receive their full license again until they completed a drivers ed course. Subsequent incidents could have other punishments as needed. I know it would create a huge bureaucracy, but it might help safety if people understood that driving was a privilege, not a right. It would also give us a chance to tighten up our loose education standards.

I do have to say that it was nice to see that the article referred to it as a crash and not an accident. When is the media and the law enforcement community going to stop referring to crashes as "accidents?" Most if not all of these so-called "accidents" could have been prevented IF the drivers were paying more attention to their driving instead of their cell phone, changing CD's, radio stations, etc.

How many of these so-called "accidents" are really and truly accidents and how many are the result of the driver driving while distracted by doing something other then driving? And how many could be prevented if certain controls were installed in the steering wheel? So that they didn't have to take their eyes off of the road?

I have one friend who I am constantly getting onto about paying attention... He always seems to drift left while he's skipping a song on his ipod, or grabbing a map. Drives me crazy, but he won't listen because he thinks he's a safe driver.

I do have to say that it was nice to see that the article referred to it as a crash and not an accident. When is the media and the law enforcement community going to stop referring to crashes as "accidents?" Most if not all of these so-called "accidents" could have been prevented IF the drivers were paying more attention to their driving instead of their cell phone, changing CD's, radio stations, etc.

How many of these so-called "accidents" are really and truly accidents and how many are the result of the driver driving while distracted by doing something other then driving? And how many could be prevented if certain controls were installed in the steering wheel? So that they didn't have to take their eyes off of the road?

Yeah, but then you could actually blame some one, next thing you know you would want to actually hold them accountable for thier actions. ( totally toungue in cheak)

In discussions I've had 'round the watercooler, at church, or whatever, as soon as people hear "the driver was drunk" they pretty much universally turn against him. And in general people with DUIs do lose license for a while. It's still not enough, and penalties do not escalate fast enough. IMO, first offense, 3 month driving ban, 2nd offense, 3 year driving ban, 3rd offense, lifetime. Plus jail time after the first. PLUS whatever the penalties are for whatever laws they broke.

The penalties we already have against being caught DUI is why it's so common for drunks to flee the scene. That's why fleeing the scene should be VERY serious - worse than any penalty you could get if you stayed. Maybe it doubles all fines/ban times/jail times, and carries its own 6 months in jail.

The problem, of course, is enforcement. It always is.

I would be one of those people, church or not.

DON'T DRINK AND/THEN DRIVE!!!

First offense, years, second, learn to live in prison, 3rd offense, learn to live in prison. When you lose someone to a drunk driver, your sensibilities change drastically. Wanna ask me?

<<In discussions I've had 'round the watercooler, at church, or whatever, as soon as people hear "the driver was drunk" they pretty much universally turn against him.>>

Well, apparently in discussions around the good-old-boy backslappin' in bred law school circuit and judges chambers, as soon as people hear a driver (drunk or not... I am sorry I slipped that in) hit a pedestrian or bicyclist they pretty much don't care a rats ass.


roughstuff

<<In discussions I've had 'round the watercooler, at church, or whatever, as soon as people hear "the driver was drunk" they pretty much universally turn against him.>>

Well, apparently in discussions around the good-old-boy backslappin' in bred law school circuit and judges chambers, as soon as people hear a driver (drunk or not... I am sorry I slipped that in) hit a pedestrian or bicyclist they pretty much don't care a rats ass.


roughstuff

You've been to Chattanooga, TN??

IMHO, drivers of all ages should lose their license after the first collision in which they are determined to be at fault. They'd be issued a month long temporary permit to allow them to continue working. However, they wouldn't be able to receive their full license again until they completed a drivers ed course. Subsequent incidents could have other punishments as needed. I know it would create a huge bureaucracy, but it might help safety if people understood that driving was a privilege, not a right. It would also give us a chance to tighten up our loose education standards.

Not a bad idea... with much worse restrictions if lose of life is involved. And why worry about who is at fault. Subject all parties involved to such retraining. That eliminates the issues of finding fault, and makes everyone work harder to avoid a collision

You've been to Chattanooga, TN??

On the Chattanooga chew-chew! :)

I have bicycled thru alot of Tennessee..I loved it. I never bought a single cup of coffee in the state...when I slipped into a diner for breakfast, as soon as folks saw I was cycling they gave me the coffee for free. It was funny to come to a rural intersection where roads 1525, 1746, 1358, 7691, and 9709 all met.

roughstuff

On the Chattanooga chew-chew! :)

I have bicycled thru alot of Tennessee..I loved it. I never bought a single cup of coffee in the state...when I slipped into a diner for breakfast, as soon as folks saw I was cycling they gave me the coffee for free. It was funny to come to a rural intersection where roads 1525, 1746, 1358, 7691, and 9709 all met.

roughstuff

Yeah, I was being sarcastic.

I would be one of those people, church or not.

DON'T DRINK AND/THEN DRIVE!!!

First offense, years, second, learn to live in prison, 3rd offense, learn to live in prison. When you lose someone to a drunk driver, your sensibilities change drastically. Wanna ask me?


I don't think drunk driving should be treated any differently as a reckless driver on the cellphone or a woman putting on makeup or just bad driving all together. In my past, I've ridden with drunk drivers who drive much more safer than a sober one injecting cd's into the radio.

Bad driving should be penalized, then there should be something like a 'hate crime' clause that worsens the penalties if you're say drunk, on the cell phone, half asleep.



I just cannot understand why alcohol is the scapegoat for all bad driving. If you kill someone while behind the wheel it is but an accident no matter what you've done. But if you've had a few beers it becomes murder. I'm not saying driving drunk is innocent, but cmon now, impaired is impaired. I bet if one had been taking their prescribed morphine cough suppressant then drove you'd be less likely to hate on them then you would a drunk.

Im just saying an eye for an eye. Lets say a just downright BAD driver kills blatlantly mows someone down, then a good drunk does the same deed. Should the BAD driver get away with them calling it an accident while the drunk goes downtown for MURDER one. They committed the same act and should recieve the same penalty IMHO.

Until a drunk driver plows into a high school graduation ceremony, killing dozens of sons and daughters of local lawyers, judges, politicians, policemen, and local hacks of all stripes, there will be NO REFORM in this area.

roughstuff



What roughstuff said, squared

Jeff. still fat

Out here in OR we generally don't do any traffic enforcement, therefore it is very difficult to get a citation for drunk driving unless you incapacitate your car in the wreck. When someone picks up a few of these, they sometimes get their license "suspended", which means they can only drive to and from work and shopping. Surprisingly, these folks seem to work and shop an awful lot. On about the fifth or sixth drunk driving conviction, they get a license suspension. Typically, they then go on to at least one more wreck while driving without a license. It is a near universal belief that no one can live without driving.

I think an effective step would be to have 24/7 traffic courts and make forfeiture of the car a part of the fine for all moving violations. Be careful who you loan that car to! When you get pulled over (or out of the wreckage), you are immediately taken to traffic court. If convicted, have a nice walk home.

Lesson watch out for teen drivers!