Foo - Do kids do always first?

Do Kids *go* always first?

Lets consider this example...


You are on a plane with your kids. Plane is broken and people need oxygen or they will die.

Mom #1 - Starts putting a mask on her 1st baby, then the 2nd baby, but passes out and dies. Nobody put a mask on 3rd baby so he dies as well.

Mom #2 - Put herself a mask FIRST. Then put masks on all her 3 kids. Everybody survived.

Moral of the story. If you don't take care or yourself, you will never take care of your kids. Ghettos are full of mothers that placed their kids 1st. Kids before education, kids before work, kids b4 anything. Local jails are then filled with those kids, already grown up. Good luck with that plan! :thumb:

You should read 'Freakonomics' by Levitt and Dubner. Very interesting stuff that addresses these issues uniquely among other things. But in the end, I agree.

Not always, but the majority of the time - kids come first.

The airline example #2 is how you're shown to do it in the pre-flight safety briefing... at least, it was the last time I flew. ('96)

In general, the only reason an adult should precede a child is so the adult can CATCH or assist the child in an otherwise-impossible situation.

I think that I would put the well being and future of my children in first place when making a decision of major import, like career, education, living area, etc. If I had to sacrifice something that I wanted to do in order to better my kids I would. And I understand sacrifice. It was one year ago on Good Friday that my wife presented me with a letter that I thought was the end of our marriage. I had to sit down and do some SERIOUS soul searching and then seek therapy. One year later and we are still married, and I am doing so much better mentally, emotionally, spiritually. There is not an aspect of my life that has not changed, but only because I wanted to make the changes and the only person I can change is me.

Kids need structure and discipline and certainty in there lives.

The airline example #2 is how you're shown to do it in the pre-flight safety briefing... at least, it was the last time I flew. ('96)

In general, the only reason an adult should precede a child is so the adult can CATCH or assist the child in an otherwise-impossible situation.

Exactly.

I admire jsharr for his efforts, I tried to do similar , but failed.

Anyway... I, like most people, like for my kids the same things jsharr mentioned. But to get there, some people have to place the kids in 2nd place for a while.

Consider a single mother with 2 pre-school babies and no father in sight. No education, no job, living on welfare and section 8. There are plans where the gov will pay the daycare so this woman could go to school. But that require placing studies BEFORE kids for a while. All I'm saying is that sometimes, depending on your circumstances, in order to have your kids 1st, you have to make them 2nd for some time... otherwise you gonna run out of gas before you finish raising them properly.

Depends, if you're George Costanza kids definitely go last.

I admire jsharr for his efforts, I tried to do similar , but failed.

Anyway... I, like most people, like for my kids the same things jsharr mentioned. But to get there, some people have to place the kids in 2nd place for a while.

Consider a single mother with 2 pre-school babies and no father in sight. No education, no job, living on welfare and section 8. There are plans where the gov will pay the daycare so this woman could go to school. But that require placing studies BEFORE kids for a while. All I'm saying is that sometimes, depending on your circumstances, in order to have your kids 1st, you have to make them 2nd for some time... otherwise you gonna run out of gas before you finish raising them properly.

Maybe I don't get this. How is this placing kids 2nd if what you are doing is for them?

I admire jsharr for his efforts, I tried to do similar , but failed.

Anyway... I, like most people, like for my kids the same things jsharr mentioned. But to get there, some people have to place the kids in 2nd place for a while.

Consider a single mother with 2 pre-school babies and no father in sight. No education, no job, living on welfare and section 8. There are plans where the gov will pay the daycare so this woman could go to school. But that require placing studies BEFORE kids for a while. All I'm saying is that sometimes, depending on your circumstances, in order to have your kids 1st, you have to make them 2nd for some time... otherwise you gonna run out of gas before you finish raising them properly.

Maybe I don't get this. How is this placing kids 2nd if what you are doing is for them?

Do Kids *go* always first?

Lets consider this example...


You are on a plane with your kids. Plane is broken and people need oxygen or they will die.

Mom #1 - Starts putting a mask on her 1st baby, then the 2nd baby, but passes out and dies. Nobody put a mask on 3rd baby so he dies as well.

Mom #2 - Put herself a mask FIRST. Then put masks on all her 3 kids. Everybody survived.

Moral of the story. If you don't take care or yourself, you will never take care of your kids. Ghettos are full of mothers that placed their kids 1st. Kids before education, kids before work, kids b4 anything. Local jails are then filled with those kids, already grown up. Good luck with that plan! :thumb:

It's a decent analogy but analogies are never perfect, and taken to extremes can break down entirely. Somebody might take that as meaning they should put their every wish in front of their kids' basic needs.

Ruben, you are the father of two children. That does not ever change. Everything that you do affects your children in one way or another. To answer your question, yes, the children always come first. Sometimes that means putting your oxygen mask on first so you can be around for them after you all walk away from the wreckage. However, you have to walk away from the wreckage and deal with the trauma before you step onto another plane.

Maybe I don't get this. How is this placing kids 2nd if what you are doing is for them?

Sorry Siu for being confusing. Let me clarify. What I'm trying to get at is that having a Dad that grows old alone and never marries because he only dedicates to his kids, might not be the best idea on every case. Kids need a *happy* dad. And daddy needs some other things to be happy. It's a balancing act that every divorce parent with kids can relate. But *is not* placing the kids last. And much less "traumatize them for life" or "kick'em like dogs".

Actually, I'm father of 4. But just 2 are left alive.

Wait, I mis-understood the first post. I thought you meant these people were having children before doing these things. Which I suppose they are, but a complete different point and argument... That's still a good book though.

Sorry Siu for being confusing. Let me clarify. What I'm trying to get at is that having a Dad that grows old alone and never marries because he only dedicates to his kids, might not be the best idea on every case. Kids need a *happy* dad. And daddy needs some other things to be happy. It's a balancing act that every divorce parent with kids can relate. But *is not* placing the kids last. And much less "traumatize them for life" or "kick'em like dogs".


Oh... Um.... I get your point.

Errr.. I could be wrong, but

I don't think she meant it that way. I think she just meant for you to be careful in managing your time spent with her vs with the kids (now that time with them would be sacrificed) And as for the dog thing, I thinks she was saying that even though the kids may be needing you more during the parent split up, you may not really see it because no matter what they will always come running to daddy because they love him, even if you don't spend that much time with them. Because they will cherish what they have.

Nothing is absolute, everything depends on the circumstances. People should not judge until they know all variables. And if they do, they should be prepared to defend their points in debate.

somebody translate this one : "Todo es del color del cristal con que se mira".

Fact 1. If you need the mask to save your life, it won't.
Fact 2. If you got it on and you didn't pass out, you didn't need it.
Fact 3. If you didn't get the mask on, it will be the last thing you see when you pass out. It will however be the first thing you see when you awake.

Just a friendly public service announcement.:)

Back to your inflight movie.

Nothing is absolute, everything depends on the circumstances. People should not judge until they know all variables. And if they do, they should be prepared to defend their points in debate.

somebody translate this one : "Todo es del color del cristal con que se mira".

"lets do a shot of crystal skull vodka"?

Funny, but no.

Literary translates as "Everything looks like the color of the crystal you are looking it trough" ... not sure if there is a slang translation that might be different but mean the same.

Funny, but no.

Literary translates as "Everything looks like the color of the crystal you are looking it trough" ... not sure if there is a slang translation that might be different but mean the same.

"Looking at the world through rose colored glasses"

somebody translate this one : "Todo es del color del cristal con que se mira".

Everything is of the color of the crystal whereupon it is watched

Do Kids *go* always first?Your own kids or kids in general? What if there's a screaming baby in the seat next to mine? Can I put my mask on then cut the hose to its mask?

Nothing is absolute, everything depends on the circumstances. People should not judge until they know all variables. And if they do, they should be prepared to defend their points in debate.

somebody translate this one : "Todo es del color del cristal con que se mira".

then again,"the senoritas all get prettier at closing time":thumb:

I'm a rather evil person when it come to kids (I HATE the little things), so kids never come first in my book.

It's a good thing I'm going to get married or have kids.

I think I need to clarify my response. My faith should come first, but many times I put me first. My wife should come second, but again, many times I put me first. My kids should come third, then education, career, etc. Faith, Family, Work, in that order. I find that the more I get away from the ME and invest more time in faith and family that I am much happier. Not saying this works for everyone.

And Ruben I agree that you must be happy. You have to love yourself before you can love others. For me, that meant taking some serious time to consider how and why I was making choices and reprioritizing things. Learning to give selflessly, expecting nothing back. Still have a long way to go on this path, but I have learned that when place your selfworth or validation in others, or in how you think others perceive you, you are setting yourself up for failure. What is in the past is in the past and I have forgiven myself for that and will not allow my past to define me. Some define insanity as continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results.

Again, I will say that we all, kids especially, need a solid foundation on which to build. The house built on rock will be able to resist to storms and floods of life. The house built on sand will crumble when the rains come. Find a rock in your life on which to build a house that will always be there.

Do Kids *go* always first?

Lets consider this example...


You are on a plane with your kids. Plane is broken and people need oxygen or they will die.

Mom #1 - Starts putting a mask on her 1st baby, then the 2nd baby, but passes out and dies. Nobody put a mask on 3rd baby so he dies as well.

Mom #2 - Put herself a mask FIRST. Then put masks on all her 3 kids. Everybody survived.

Moral of the story. If you don't take care or yourself, you will never take care of your kids. Ghettos are full of mothers that placed their kids 1st. Kids before education, kids before work, kids b4 anything. Local jails are then filled with those kids, already grown up. Good luck with that plan! :thumb:


as a father I did the exact same thing, my kids came/come before everyone and everything including my wife and myself, they ended up doing a hell of a lot better than we did (my wife and I) when we first started out in life. BTW, the only times my wife and I ended up in prison was when we were both CO's, every day we "did our eight and went out the gate." ;0)

I'm not a parent so my view may be skewed but when I was 11, my parents told us that we would be moving cross country again, the second time in two years, and my parents would both be going back to school. We were just getting used to being there and we had good friends again. Needless to say, none of us were happy with them! My oldest sister at the time was a senior in high school and had 2 months of school left after we got to the new state. Neither of my parents had ever been to college and they both got their bachelor's and both continued to get their masters. We had no money for anyhting. I would have given anything to play sports. I started selling things door to door when we moved and my parents had to borrow money for milk and other food on occassion. My mom went to school during the day when we were at school and during the summer we werte left to fend for ourselves. My dad had a full time job and went to school in the evenings so we didn't see him much. The hope for them was that they would be able to get good jobs with their degrees and provide better for us but that never really happened sadly. They still struggle. But we were definitely not first. It bothered me at the time sometimes but I can honestly say that I am glad for the way they raised me. I learned a lot of discipline, to fend for myself and to not be afraid to figure things out for myself. They also taught me to love learning. So while I wasn't first, I think they did the right thing.

I think too many kids are spoiled anyway and need to not be put first so they can see the world doesn't revolve around them! I can't stand spoiled brats!

Tiff :)

I'm not a parent so my view may be skewed but when I was 11, my parents told us that we would be moving cross country again, the second time in two years, and my parents would both be going back to school. We were just getting used to being there and we had good friends again. Needless to say, none of us were happy with them! My oldest sister at the time was a senior in high school and had 2 months of school left after we got to the new state. Neither of my parents had ever been to college and they both got their bachelor's and both continued to get their masters. We had no money for anyhting. I would have given anything to play sports. I started selling things door to door when we moved and my parents had to borrow money for milk and other food on occassion. My mom went to school during the day when we were at school and during the summer we werte left to fend for ourselves. My dad had a full time job and went to school in the evenings so we didn't see him much. The hope for them was that they would be able to get good jobs with their degrees and provide better for us but that never really happened sadly. They still struggle. But we were definitely not first. It bothered me at the time sometimes but I can honestly say that I am glad for the way they raised me. I learned a lot of discipline, to fend for myself and to not be afraid to figure things out for myself. They also taught me to love learning. So while I wasn't first, I think they did the right thing.

I think too many kids are spoiled anyway and need to not be put first so they can see the world doesn't revolve around them! I can't stand spoiled brats!Tiff :)


Take ghetto kids, most people expect them to grow up in a life of thuggery, and thats not the case, and not all of the "kids before everything" kids turn out the way you describe them either, my kids are the greatests kids ever! :) Do I say this because its what I think? no, I say this because thats what we have and are still told on almost a daily basis by people who they have met, people who know them, and people that love them, and that seems to be everyone that they ever met in their lives! :)

Ilikebikes, if all snarks are zombats and all zombats are grems, are all grems snarks? No. I wasn't saying all children who are put first are spoiled brats. But all spoiled brats would benfit from reality that they don't always come first. A spoiled brat is obviously different from a child who everyone is glad to know.

Ilikebikes, if all snarks are zombats and all zombats are grems, are all grems snarks? No. I wasn't saying all children who are put first are spoiled brats. But all spoiled brats would benfit from reality that they don't always come first. A spoiled brat is obviously different from a child who everyone is glad to know.

Hows about zomgremsnarks? :p

It seems to me that most of the time when it comes to kids come first topics people are confusing wants and needs. (The mask example in the OP being a notable exception).

Generally kids needs come first. Exception being true back to the wall situations like in the OP.

Where people mess up is puitting kids wants before others needs.

Generally speaking:

Kids needs
Parents needs

Parents and kids wants considered on an equal footing, with a realization that parents can deal better with delayed gratification.

Oh and the Ghetto single mother example is very much not actually putting the kids first, it is putting motherhood ahead of wage earner. If there is child care available putting motherhood ahead of basic wage earning seems to me to be more about personal gratification for the mother more than anything else. (Puting wage earner after basic needs are met above basic time with kids is likely the same thing, just a case of different people different gratification).