Advocacy & Safety - An example of a driver who needs to have their license revoked

Yesterday on my way to the library after going to the Farm Store to get a soda, I'm stopped at a red light. I'm the first vehicle at the light so I am stopped left of the center of the lane so that right turning traffic can safely make their right turn.

An older gentleman pulls up along side me to my right. The light turns green I start to pull forward so does the older gentleman with about a foot or so of space between us. About a block or so north he makes a right hand turn and I figured that that was the last I was going to see him.

I head on up to the library, and proceed to lock my bike up. And here comes the same red pickup/SUV. While we are outside I try to tell him that what he had done was both dangerous and illegal. He acts like he can't hear me and goes into the library. After I finish locking my bike up and go inside he is at the counter. I again as I am walking by tell him that what he had done was dangerous and illegal.

He tells the librarians that he wants them to call 911 cause he "feels threatened." I just continue to where I go to sit with my laptop to connect to their WiFi network. As I am getting under the table to plug my laptop in the head librarian comes back to talk to me to find out what happened, because unfortunately I did raise my voice a little. She and the other librarians were understanding. And as I left last night I apologized to the two that were still there. And today I apologized to the third one.

She told me that he said that he didn't see me on the road.

I'd like to know how that can be when like I said I was just left of the center of the lane, and I was wearing an orange jersey with the head of the robot from the movie Metropolis on it.

IF he couldn't see me sitting just left of the center of the lane, and wearing that jersey, I think that it's time that he has his license revoked. As who knows what/who else he won't see?

D_C,

Agreed, that guy needs to be off the road.
I am just amazed when people for whatever reason simply refuse to admit when they have made a mistake.

Jeff, still fat

I honestly think, DC my friend, that if hadn't seen you, he'd have plowed you at the light... but you know that already.

Selective Alzheimer's.

Check with your state drivers license inspector about what to do. Chances are they have a proceedure already available. They do here in Oklahoma.

Bob

DC, you better be careful or you might have your library card revoked!

:D

D_C,

Agreed, that guy needs to be off the road.
I am just amazed when people for whatever reason simply refuse to admit when they have made a mistake.

Jeff, still fat

We all do it, isn't that why pencils have erasers?

I honestly think, DC my friend, that if hadn't seen you, he'd have plowed you at the light... but you know that already.

Selective Alzheimer's.

DM,

Given where I was stopped I would have to agree with you.

I'd say more like selective seeing.

Check with your state drivers license inspector about what to do. Chances are they have a proceedure already available. They do here in Oklahoma.

Bob

I'll do that, thank you for the information.

DC, you better be careful or you might have your library card revoked!

:D

Roody,

I don't think that that is a problem they know me well there and know that I wouldn't go off of the handle for no reason. And as I said I've since have apologized to the three librarians who were working that night.

In hindsight, you should have found a book about safe driving and handed it to him at the counter. If he's elderly, he may have indeed felt threatened, but also may have been playing the "elderly card". You know the one where "I didn't see him", or "I can't hear you" or "I feel threatened" are worked to their advantage.

Carry a Schraeder valve stem tool in your tool kit. You'll be surprised how handy it can be sometimes.

Tough to get back on the road with two or three flat tires, too.

I think it's pretty obvious he saw you. Some people don't like to admit their mistakes, and, more than that, some people really don't like to be confronted about them ( or anything else ). Seattle is a very passive aggressive city, where making eye contact with a stranger is a form of assault, and from the sounds of it, your friend in the truck may have moved from here.

Telling the guy twice at the library that his driving maneuvers were illegal gave him an "out" to complain that you were harassing him, and that he felt threatened. It sounds like he played his cards. I don't know what the answer is, but, I'm guessing he did hear you the first time, even if he didn't want to let on. You can't usually "fix" bad drivers, though.

In hindsight, you should have found a book about safe driving and handed it to him at the counter. If he's elderly, he may have indeed felt threatened, but also may have been playing the "elderly card". You know the one where "I didn't see him", or "I can't hear you" or "I feel threatened" are worked to their advantage.

I'll have to check and see if they have any here at this branch, and if they do remember where they are shelved for the future.

Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if that is what he was doing. As has been noted one would think that if he truly hadn't seen me that he would have hit me at the intersection.

Some of them do that so well, as well as making it seem like the person who was wronged is the one who committed the wrong in the first place.

I guess the better thing to have done was to wait and see what he was going to do. Of course the downside to that is that I still would have faced the possibility of having another vehicle or two passing me on the right.

Carry a Schraeder valve stem tool in your tool kit. You'll be surprised how handy it can be sometimes.

Tough to get back on the road with two or three flat tires, too.

As nice as that might be to do, I don't think that I could actually do it. As if he truly felt threatened what could he claim if I were to do something like that?

I think it's pretty obvious he saw you. Some people don't like to admit their mistakes, and, more than that, some people really don't like to be confronted about them ( or anything else ). Seattle is a very passive aggressive city, where making eye contact with a stranger is a form of assault, and from the sounds of it, your friend in the truck may have moved from here.

That's probably a lot closer to the truth then anything else. He made an "honest mistake," and when he got called on it he tried to use his age/infirmities (if any) as an "out."


Telling the guy twice at the library that his driving maneuvers were illegal gave him an "out" to complain that you were harassing him, and that he felt threatened. It sounds like he played his cards. I don't know what the answer is, but, I'm guessing he did hear you the first time, even if he didn't want to let on. You can't usually "fix" bad drivers, though.

Again you're probably right, but it's still better then had I kicked the side of his vehicle as he passed me. I think you that you're right, and as has been noted he probably (for whatever reason) didn't want to acknowledge having made a mistake, if said mistake could have cost someone else their life. I would think swallowing one's pride and admitting to having made a mistake is better then killing someone, or living with the guilt of having killed someone.

This is true, and as we all know sadly even taking their licenses from them is no guarantee that they are going to stay off of the roads.

Yea go to my cycling videos and you can see lots of motorists who shouldn't be driving on the road.

youtube.com/bodybait

Carry a Schraeder valve stem tool in your tool kit. You'll be surprised how handy it can be sometimes.

Tough to get back on the road with two or three flat tires, too.

I just want to make sure no one actually does this. First, it's vandalism, and committing a crime is rarely good for advocacy. Second, and more importantly, it's a safety hazard. Probably wouldn't be a problem with removing the valve core, but if the tire only partially deflates and isn't noticed, it has a real possibility of causing a collision.

You handled it the way I would have OP. I really like the clever idea to hand him a book about safety, also. Maybe I should carry a few copies of a pamphlet just for that purpose.

DC, I guess I'm a weird one.

I don't have a problem admitting mistakes, once they're pointed out. Sure, it's embarrassing, but to own up to them earns a level of respect I've kinda grown addicted to.

Your lane position failed to provide essential information to the driver.

If you are sharing a lane, share it. If taking a lane, take it.

While we are outside I try to tell him that what he had done was both dangerous and illegal. He acts like he can't hear me and goes into the library. After I finish locking my bike up and go inside he is at the counter. I again as I am walking by tell him that what he had done was dangerous and illegal.

If you feel you want to enforce laws, become a cop. Otherwise, learn to let it go. It's simply not your job to go up to people and try to correct their behavior.

DC, I guess I'm a weird one.

I don't have a problem admitting mistakes, once they're pointed out. Sure, it's embarrassing, but to own up to them earns a level of respect I've kinda grown addicted to.

DM,

I agree, and it should be looked at more as a learning experience, so that one doesn't make the same mistake a second time.

I just want to make sure no one actually does this. First, it's vandalism, and committing a crime is rarely good for advocacy. Second, and more importantly, it's a safety hazard. Probably wouldn't be a problem with removing the valve core, but if the tire only partially deflates and isn't noticed, it has a real possibility of causing a collision.

You handled it the way I would have OP. I really like the clever idea to hand him a book about safety, also. Maybe I should carry a few copies of a pamphlet just for that purpose.

As with the thread where caltrops were mentioned. I think that the suggestion was meant more tongue in check, as I think that most of us here wouldn't actually stoop to such a tactic. No matter how justified it might be to do something like that.

I've suggested to the Florida Bicycle Assoc. to put some of the safe riding pamphlets in the various libraries. That way hopefully we'd get the information into the hands of the people who not only need it, but would be likely to read it as well.

Your lane position failed to provide essential information to the driver.

If you are sharing a lane, share it. If taking a lane, take it.

I was far enough to the left of center to allow right turning traffic to safely make a right turn as there isn't a right turn only lane at this intersection. If I take the lane, then I am encouraging drivers turning right to pass too close to me to make their turn.

A couple of years ago I had a soccer mom ask if I could move over to my left a little so that she could get past safely. That is/was the first and last time that that has happened.

If you feel you want to enforce laws, become a cop. Otherwise, learn to let it go. It's simply not your job to go up to people and try to correct their behavior.

I don't go around chasing or confronting errant drivers. It just happened that we were headed to the same place and that our paths crossed a second time.

I hear ya. It's just that unless you have authority to enforce, what is even talking to the guy going to accomplish?

Maybe some drivers don't understand the gesture made by people riding bikes, of staying to the left of the lane's center to allow motor vehicles to pull ahead and make right turns on reds. On the one hand, I might give the older guy in the pickup the benefit of the doubt, thinking he was confused and too embarrassed to admit it and drop his vehicle back.

On the other hand, he could have been simply irked by a bikes presence on the road, and just too stubborn to stay in a following position behind a bike, given that the bike's position in the lane allowed just enough room for his vehicle to travel. I'm just glad the he didn't decide to do something truly malicious, like pull to the center of the lane, pushing you off.

When riding, and the road has allowed, I've moved over to let right turn on red road users proceed. So far, never had a problem associated with doing that. Being on the road though, involves having to deal with personalities, attitudes, and mental states of mind.

I hear ya. It's just that unless you have authority to enforce, what is even talking to the guy going to accomplish?

Sadly, in most cases probably not much of anything other then raising my blood pressure. It probably would have been more satisfying to have had my right foot "accidentally" come unclip and kick his driver side door a little.

Maybe some drivers don't understand the gesture made by people riding bikes, of staying to the left of the lane's center to allow motor vehicles to pull ahead and make right turns on reds. On the one hand, I might give the older guy in the pickup the benefit of the doubt, thinking he was confused and too embarrassed to admit it and drop his vehicle back.

On the other hand, he could have been simply irked by a bikes presence on the road, and just too stubborn to stay in a following position behind a bike, given that the bike's position in the lane allowed just enough room for his vehicle to travel. I'm just glad the he didn't decide to do something truly malicious, like pull to the center of the lane, pushing you off.

When riding, and the road has allowed, I've moved over to let right turn on red road users proceed. So far, never had a problem associated with doing that. Being on the road though, involves having to deal with personalities, attitudes, and mental states of mind.

Yep, and sadly the last time I checked none of us are mind readers and as such none of know what the other guy is thinking, or even possibly packing. Which is why as I am sure I don't need to say. That giving in to our knee jerk reaction and flipping some motorists off (no matter how much they may deserve it) could lead to our death.

There were two school crossing guards just setting up for the day. They made some sort of comment, but I couldn't clearly make out what it was that they said. So am I as if he had tried anything of the sort I was literally between a rock and a hard place. And in that situation I don't think that my spandex kit would have offered much if any protection.

In case I hadn't mentioned it before one thing that I've noticed and like is that when I am going to the Farm Store before going to the library is that while I'm in the left hand lane for a little over a block with my left hand extended to signal a left hand turn that so far no one has honked at me. I guess (hopefully) that that means more people then we've given credit still know what the hand signals mean. And if northbound traffic is heavy enough that it looks as if it will take a little time to complete the turn I alternate between the slow/stop signal and the left turn signal to indicate that I am both slowing down and still preparing to make a left hand turn.

I was far enough to the left of center to allow right turning traffic to safely make a right turn as there isn't a right turn only lane at this intersection. If I take the lane, then I am encouraging drivers turning right to pass too close to me to make their turn . . . .

Yes, you moved far enough to the left to encourage lane sharing. I've much done the same thing except that I hug the center line.

The problem is that we lack a message board saying "Lane Shared for Right Turns Only." My solution, offered for your consideration, is to accept some less than adequate clearances when the light changes, watch the mirror for a gap, signal right, and return to whatever lane position is appropriate for the setting.

I had to kind of laugh. Today while I was securing my bike at the library, who do I see pull in? My "friend" from last Friday. I was tempted to go over to him and apologize for scaring him last week. But thought better of it, because I didn't want to "scare" him a second time.