nixgeek
08-27-04, 09:25 PM
For those of you who like to hit the gym and do upper and/or lower body strength training -- what types of exercises do you like to do to enhance your riding performance?
Road Cycling - weight training & cycling
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ScattMan
08-29-04, 03:38 PM
I do both. However, my perspective is somewhat different. I ride to improve my weight training. I'm a meso-endo that has a very easy time putting on body fat. So biking is the long moderate intensity cardio that I need. I like it because I can increase the intensity or time to effect my body in different ways. The big plus, it is much more fun that an eliptical or treadmill.
late
08-29-04, 04:45 PM
Hi,
You need to find a good gym. And because each part of your body is connected to the next...working just one spot can cause a problem.. Once you start working the quads, you threaten to overwhelm the hamstrings (very bad news). What you are really asking is .. 'How can I get in shape so my body can handle what I throw at it' Glad you asked. Start *very* slowly. First time in the gym after a while I hit the weight stations but leave the pin on the floor. I am just trying to get used to the new movement with minimal resistance. I don't do a lot of reps either. Make haste slowly.
When your body adjusts to the new routine you can add weight quickly for a while; but that will slow down. I do one upper body workout and one lower body workout a week. It's enough.Don't ride the day after you do legs unless it's a very easy cruise. Do abs with arms and the back with legs. It can be hard learning to do the exercise perfectly. You can get hurt doing them wrong.Having gone thorugh this before, all I can do is to ask you to try it. You will like the results.
Anyway, there are a lot of good exercises.
For the core my 3 fave exercises are
1) Roman Chair ( I love this one, but I do seated rows to build up my back for a month or more to get ready)
2)Incline situps (don't forget the twist, and don't start on an incline unless you love pain. After a month on the gym, and after a few easy crunches, do a couple at a slight incline. You will cramp doing this exercise eventually, just walk it off.
3)seated rows.....great exercise, but it works best if you're feet are at the same level as your butt (or close to it). You get that by sitting on the floor with your butt on a cushion. If you don't get them on the same level the hips don't get involved. You want to row from the hips. Most rowing stations put your feet too low.
Legs....
1)Leg extensions (do the last set working only the upper third of the extension to nail the Vastus Medialus. That is the muscle that protects your knees.)
2)Leg curls. I try to keep the weight on extensions and curls close to each other.
If the difference goes over 40-50% I'd lay off the leg extensions for a week, and do leg curls twice in that week.
3)Mini-squats....you only want the knee to bend as much as you do when pedaling.If your knees are good you can go deeper; but personally I'm not a fan of deep squats. Good form is vital. Keep your butt underneath your shoulders. You may need someone to train you for that.
4)Calf raises...a surprisingly effective cycling exercise. Occasionally do a set lunging against the calf machine. You need a standing calf machine to do that. First week just do calf raises leaning on something so you aren't using all your weight as resistance. 2nd week you should be able to do a calf raise. After that you can use a calf machine.
Arms....
1)AN exercise that uses most of your range of motion in pushing. Pushups are limited in effectiveness. Dumbell press, most machines, are fine. You arms act as shock absorbers on a bike, so imitating that partial up and down movment would be good.
2)I invented this one. Lean forward while holding a dumbell and place a hand on a bench or rack so you are at least at a 45 degree angle. Make a motion like you were drinking from a cup, but... keep the palm facing down, and the motion straight up and down just in front of, and to the side, of your face. Don't go higher than your chin. This gets front and rear delts; think of it as a core exercise.
3)Dumbell rows (lean over a bench or use a machine). Use full range and it will use your back a little.
4) Lat pulldown/close grip pull down. Do lats in one arm workout and then the close grip pulldown on the next workout.
You need to find a good gym. And because each part of your body is connected to the next...working just one spot can cause a problem.. Once you start working the quads, you threaten to overwhelm the hamstrings (very bad news). What you are really asking is .. 'How can I get in shape so my body can handle what I throw at it' Glad you asked. Start *very* slowly. First time in the gym after a while I hit the weight stations but leave the pin on the floor. I am just trying to get used to the new movement with minimal resistance. I don't do a lot of reps either. Make haste slowly.
When your body adjusts to the new routine you can add weight quickly for a while; but that will slow down. I do one upper body workout and one lower body workout a week. It's enough.Don't ride the day after you do legs unless it's a very easy cruise. Do abs with arms and the back with legs. It can be hard learning to do the exercise perfectly. You can get hurt doing them wrong.Having gone thorugh this before, all I can do is to ask you to try it. You will like the results.
Anyway, there are a lot of good exercises.
For the core my 3 fave exercises are
1) Roman Chair ( I love this one, but I do seated rows to build up my back for a month or more to get ready)
2)Incline situps (don't forget the twist, and don't start on an incline unless you love pain. After a month on the gym, and after a few easy crunches, do a couple at a slight incline. You will cramp doing this exercise eventually, just walk it off.
3)seated rows.....great exercise, but it works best if you're feet are at the same level as your butt (or close to it). You get that by sitting on the floor with your butt on a cushion. If you don't get them on the same level the hips don't get involved. You want to row from the hips. Most rowing stations put your feet too low.
Legs....
1)Leg extensions (do the last set working only the upper third of the extension to nail the Vastus Medialus. That is the muscle that protects your knees.)
2)Leg curls. I try to keep the weight on extensions and curls close to each other.
If the difference goes over 40-50% I'd lay off the leg extensions for a week, and do leg curls twice in that week.
3)Mini-squats....you only want the knee to bend as much as you do when pedaling.If your knees are good you can go deeper; but personally I'm not a fan of deep squats. Good form is vital. Keep your butt underneath your shoulders. You may need someone to train you for that.
4)Calf raises...a surprisingly effective cycling exercise. Occasionally do a set lunging against the calf machine. You need a standing calf machine to do that. First week just do calf raises leaning on something so you aren't using all your weight as resistance. 2nd week you should be able to do a calf raise. After that you can use a calf machine.
Arms....
1)AN exercise that uses most of your range of motion in pushing. Pushups are limited in effectiveness. Dumbell press, most machines, are fine. You arms act as shock absorbers on a bike, so imitating that partial up and down movment would be good.
2)I invented this one. Lean forward while holding a dumbell and place a hand on a bench or rack so you are at least at a 45 degree angle. Make a motion like you were drinking from a cup, but... keep the palm facing down, and the motion straight up and down just in front of, and to the side, of your face. Don't go higher than your chin. This gets front and rear delts; think of it as a core exercise.
3)Dumbell rows (lean over a bench or use a machine). Use full range and it will use your back a little.
4) Lat pulldown/close grip pull down. Do lats in one arm workout and then the close grip pulldown on the next workout.
ed073
08-29-04, 06:22 PM
Road (and track endurance training) - gym work is not required and may be detrimental to performance.
Hitchy
08-29-04, 07:36 PM
Road (and track endurance training) - gym work is not required and may be detrimental to performance.
G'day Ed,
You Ric stern's love child?. Whilst Ric will quote all sorts of facts & figures, (fair dinkum you need a degree in astrophysics to understand half of what he's on about!), I'm not convinced that its detrimental. I think any cross training is 'mentally healthy', at worst. From what I understand of Ric's arguments, it is qualified as 'trained individuals'....I guess this means for anyone less than a 'trained individual', that there could be some benefits. Certainly, on a personal level, weights work for me. Whether the same strength work can be achieved on the bike is the arguement. Certainly for me, if the same results can be achieved in the gym, thats what I prefer to do....menatlly at least, its a respite from 'yet another session on the bike'. Edmund Burke, in his book 'Serious cycling', which is probalby the bible that many modern training programs are based on (carmicheal etc) has weight sessions included.
cheers,
Hitchy
G'day Ed,
You Ric stern's love child?. Whilst Ric will quote all sorts of facts & figures, (fair dinkum you need a degree in astrophysics to understand half of what he's on about!), I'm not convinced that its detrimental. I think any cross training is 'mentally healthy', at worst. From what I understand of Ric's arguments, it is qualified as 'trained individuals'....I guess this means for anyone less than a 'trained individual', that there could be some benefits. Certainly, on a personal level, weights work for me. Whether the same strength work can be achieved on the bike is the arguement. Certainly for me, if the same results can be achieved in the gym, thats what I prefer to do....menatlly at least, its a respite from 'yet another session on the bike'. Edmund Burke, in his book 'Serious cycling', which is probalby the bible that many modern training programs are based on (carmicheal etc) has weight sessions included.
cheers,
Hitchy
Laggard
08-29-04, 07:36 PM
Road (and track endurance training) - gym work is not required and may be detrimental to performance.
Agreed. Your time in the gym is better spent on the road or on the trainer.
Agreed. Your time in the gym is better spent on the road or on the trainer.
ed073
08-29-04, 07:43 PM
G'day Ed,
You Ric stern's love child?. Whilst Ric will quote all sorts of facts & figures, (fair dinkum you need a degree in astrophysics to understand half of what he's on about!), I'm not convinced that its detrimental. I think any cross training is 'mentally healthy', at worst. From what I understand of Ric's arguments, it is qualified as 'trained individuals'....I guess this means for anyone less than a 'trained individual', that there could be some benefits. Certainly, on a personal level, weights work for me. Whether the same strength work can be achieved on the bike is the arguement. Certainly for me, if the same results can be achieved in the gym, thats what I prefer to do....menatlly at least, its a respite from 'yet another session on the bike'. Edmund Burke, in his book 'Serious cycling', which is probalby the bible that many modern training programs are based on (carmicheal etc) has weight sessions included.
cheers,
Hitchy
G'day Hitch
Yes...let me qualify. Trained indivuduals is what I'm referring to. Ordinary MOPs will benefit from just about any physical activity, in fact, I would highly recommend some weight bearing exercise.
As for elite riders in the gym...meh...I reckon it's as much something to break up the pre-season drudgery as anything else. Not sure how many gym sessions Tyler Hamilton has scheduled between Liege-Bastogne-Liege and the Tour of Romandie....:D
You Ric stern's love child?. Whilst Ric will quote all sorts of facts & figures, (fair dinkum you need a degree in astrophysics to understand half of what he's on about!), I'm not convinced that its detrimental. I think any cross training is 'mentally healthy', at worst. From what I understand of Ric's arguments, it is qualified as 'trained individuals'....I guess this means for anyone less than a 'trained individual', that there could be some benefits. Certainly, on a personal level, weights work for me. Whether the same strength work can be achieved on the bike is the arguement. Certainly for me, if the same results can be achieved in the gym, thats what I prefer to do....menatlly at least, its a respite from 'yet another session on the bike'. Edmund Burke, in his book 'Serious cycling', which is probalby the bible that many modern training programs are based on (carmicheal etc) has weight sessions included.
cheers,
Hitchy
G'day Hitch
Yes...let me qualify. Trained indivuduals is what I'm referring to. Ordinary MOPs will benefit from just about any physical activity, in fact, I would highly recommend some weight bearing exercise.
As for elite riders in the gym...meh...I reckon it's as much something to break up the pre-season drudgery as anything else. Not sure how many gym sessions Tyler Hamilton has scheduled between Liege-Bastogne-Liege and the Tour of Romandie....:D
johnamus
08-29-04, 07:50 PM
I lift to strengthen my upper and lower body. To me, it seems that you should focus on what type of riding you are doing and go from there. Sprinters and endurance riders have two different sets of ideal body structures. Running and cycling are different sports, but take a look at the difference between elite marathon runners and top 100meter sprinters; the top sprinters have massive legs and upper body attained from lifting weights while the marathoners are skinny as can be.
Personally I can't ride nearly as much as I would like to, so I rely on weights to maintain a body tuned for riding. I like squats and calf lifts for the legs and I focus on the back and triceps for better riding comfort. Since I'm lifting anyway I work out the rest of my body as well
Personally I can't ride nearly as much as I would like to, so I rely on weights to maintain a body tuned for riding. I like squats and calf lifts for the legs and I focus on the back and triceps for better riding comfort. Since I'm lifting anyway I work out the rest of my body as well
ManBearPig
08-29-04, 07:53 PM
Road (and track endurance training) - gym work is not required and may be detrimental to performance.
Preface: At age 30, I have worked out with weights for 15 years -- and I bench no more than I did in high school. Because I have only averaged maybe 2 weight workouts per week. Still, I am satisfied with the conditioning, and have muscle tone I would not otherwise.
But since riding my road bike, I have maybe worked out 3x in at most 2 weeks. But I never got much cardio before and now I do. I feel like my legs are more muscular, even if my girlfriend still says I have skinny legs. I feel better about my fitness now, even though I do less weights.
Preface: At age 30, I have worked out with weights for 15 years -- and I bench no more than I did in high school. Because I have only averaged maybe 2 weight workouts per week. Still, I am satisfied with the conditioning, and have muscle tone I would not otherwise.
But since riding my road bike, I have maybe worked out 3x in at most 2 weeks. But I never got much cardio before and now I do. I feel like my legs are more muscular, even if my girlfriend still says I have skinny legs. I feel better about my fitness now, even though I do less weights.
Hitchy
08-29-04, 07:56 PM
G'day Hitch
Yes...let me qualify. Trained indivuduals is what I'm referring to. Ordinary MOPs will benefit from just about any physical activity, in fact, I would highly recommend some weight bearing exercise.
As for elite riders in the gym...meh...I reckon it's as much something to break up the pre-season drudgery as anything else. Not sure how many gym sessions Tyler Hamilton has scheduled between Liege-Bastogne-Liege and the Tour of Romandie....:D
g'day Ed,
I guess we're not really disagreeing then. I'm convinced that weights have a place in my 'early season/pre season' program, (knowing full well that I could get the same strength benefit doing 'on bike' strength work). Of course, as with any program, doing weights the day before a race IS going to be detrimental!.....Tyler hamilton is the poster boy for 'world visions' famine appeal! someone give the man a big mac!
cheers,
Hitchy
Hitchy
Yes...let me qualify. Trained indivuduals is what I'm referring to. Ordinary MOPs will benefit from just about any physical activity, in fact, I would highly recommend some weight bearing exercise.
As for elite riders in the gym...meh...I reckon it's as much something to break up the pre-season drudgery as anything else. Not sure how many gym sessions Tyler Hamilton has scheduled between Liege-Bastogne-Liege and the Tour of Romandie....:D
g'day Ed,
I guess we're not really disagreeing then. I'm convinced that weights have a place in my 'early season/pre season' program, (knowing full well that I could get the same strength benefit doing 'on bike' strength work). Of course, as with any program, doing weights the day before a race IS going to be detrimental!.....Tyler hamilton is the poster boy for 'world visions' famine appeal! someone give the man a big mac!
cheers,
Hitchy
Hitchy
ed073
08-29-04, 08:03 PM
g'day Ed,
I guess we're not really disagreeing then. I'm convinced that weights have a place in my 'early season/pre season' program, (knowing full well that I could get the same strength benefit doing 'on bike' strength work). Of course, as with any program, doing weights the day before a race IS going to be detrimental!.....Tyler hamilton is the poster boy for 'world visions' famine appeal! someone give the man a big mac!
cheers,
Hitchy
Hitchy
not disagreeing at all....I used to [snicker...giggle...] "work-out" when I was racing....how do 30lb (busting a gut to get that 8th rep...) alternate arm curls and 90lb lat-pulldown sound?? Too scared to wear a singlet coz of :
a) skinny girl arms and "pirate's delight" chest
b) freak-show cycling tan
I'd be lucky to get to the gym once a week....it's hard to find the energy if you're on the road 25 hours a week and spend the reaminder slleeping/working/eating.
They did a doco on Darryn Hill and Gary Neiwand on 60 Minutes...the weights they were moving I thought was incredible. Now I warm up on the weight Neiwand was spotting Hill for.
I guess we're not really disagreeing then. I'm convinced that weights have a place in my 'early season/pre season' program, (knowing full well that I could get the same strength benefit doing 'on bike' strength work). Of course, as with any program, doing weights the day before a race IS going to be detrimental!.....Tyler hamilton is the poster boy for 'world visions' famine appeal! someone give the man a big mac!
cheers,
Hitchy
Hitchy
not disagreeing at all....I used to [snicker...giggle...] "work-out" when I was racing....how do 30lb (busting a gut to get that 8th rep...) alternate arm curls and 90lb lat-pulldown sound?? Too scared to wear a singlet coz of :
a) skinny girl arms and "pirate's delight" chest
b) freak-show cycling tan
I'd be lucky to get to the gym once a week....it's hard to find the energy if you're on the road 25 hours a week and spend the reaminder slleeping/working/eating.
They did a doco on Darryn Hill and Gary Neiwand on 60 Minutes...the weights they were moving I thought was incredible. Now I warm up on the weight Neiwand was spotting Hill for.
Hitchy
08-29-04, 08:11 PM
not disagreeing at all....I used to [snicker...giggle...] "work-out" when I was racing....how do 30lb (busting a gut to get that 8th rep...) alternate arm curls and 90lb lat-pulldown sound?? Too scared to wear a singlet coz of :
a) skinny girl arms and "pirate's delight" chest
b) freak-show cycling tan
I'd be lucky to get to the gym once a week....it's hard to find the energy if you're on the road 25 hours a week and spend the reaminder slleeping/working/eating.
They did a doco on Darryn Hill and Gary Neiwand on 60 Minutes...the weights they were moving I thought was incredible. Now I warm up on the weight Neiwand was spotting Hill for.
g'day,
LOL......to many upper body weights scare me!......my coach insists that I do them, but its high reps low/weight endurance type. I'll do plenty of leg weights during certain training phases, but upper body, nuh....I mean where would we be without 'manboobs'!
cheers,
hitchy
a) skinny girl arms and "pirate's delight" chest
b) freak-show cycling tan
I'd be lucky to get to the gym once a week....it's hard to find the energy if you're on the road 25 hours a week and spend the reaminder slleeping/working/eating.
They did a doco on Darryn Hill and Gary Neiwand on 60 Minutes...the weights they were moving I thought was incredible. Now I warm up on the weight Neiwand was spotting Hill for.
g'day,
LOL......to many upper body weights scare me!......my coach insists that I do them, but its high reps low/weight endurance type. I'll do plenty of leg weights during certain training phases, but upper body, nuh....I mean where would we be without 'manboobs'!
cheers,
hitchy
ed073
08-29-04, 08:37 PM
g'day,
LOL......to many upper body weights scare me!......my coach insists that I do them, but its high reps low/weight endurance type. I'll do plenty of leg weights during certain training phases, but upper body, nuh....I mean where would we be without 'manboobs'!
cheers,
hitchy
Ah yes....the POW chest and ribcage look.
I was lucky enough to sneak into the changerooms at a post-Tour crit in 1996 and got to hang out with some stars and see their pre-race routine. Richard Virenque and Michael Boogerd looked like they were at death's door.
LOL......to many upper body weights scare me!......my coach insists that I do them, but its high reps low/weight endurance type. I'll do plenty of leg weights during certain training phases, but upper body, nuh....I mean where would we be without 'manboobs'!
cheers,
hitchy
Ah yes....the POW chest and ribcage look.
I was lucky enough to sneak into the changerooms at a post-Tour crit in 1996 and got to hang out with some stars and see their pre-race routine. Richard Virenque and Michael Boogerd looked like they were at death's door.