Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - "properly" shimming 25.4 bars in a 26 stem

just before it got nasty and was closed, an op on an earlier thread mentioned that a shim on any bars but flats can fail unless it's done properly. what's the proper (and improper) way to do it? i've been using a piece i cut from a red bull can to fit just shy of all the way around, and as wide as the ribbed bit on the bar. sound ok?

just before it got nasty and was closed, an op on an earlier thread mentioned that a shim on any bars but flats can fail unless it's done properly. what's the proper (and improper) way to do it? i've been using a piece i cut from a red bull can to fit just shy of all the way around, and as wide as the ribbed bit on the bar. sound ok?

Try to make it fail, it you fail before it you've done it properly

any Time I'm shimming somthing I don't like to have to wrap the shim, one layer, if it survives a fail test then its good.

Walk down to your LBS and ask for a proper shim like smart person would do. Now that the jack ass thread is dead and gone we have to take any opportunity we get to ridicule others.

Walk down to your LBS and ask for a proper shim like smart person would do. Now that the jack ass thread is dead and gone we have to take any opportunity we get to ridicule others.

nice. 'cept when i went to the lbs they told me i'd be wasting my money and that i should just use a can. dude.

How much are shims?

On second thought you're right you might go bankrupt buying a shim.:rolleyes:

Or better yet just get 26.0 bars, there's a thought.
woww...... things that are SUPPOSED to work together.

Edit: I apologize for the hostility, I thought this was cnnrmccloskey's thread. But shims work best when they're the proper thickness, but nothing beats a correct fit.

coke can, or better yet get the goya cans for mango nectar or the cans for coconut water, they are a little thicker.

How much are shims?

On second thought you're right you might go bankrupt buying a shim.:rolleyes:

Or better yet just get 26.0 bars, there's a thought.
woww...... things that are SUPPOSED to work together.

for some people the difference between a couple bucks and the left over from a can can actualy make a difference, and why did you quote me?
I said that mostly as a joke cause you just needed to chill, I didn't even make fun of anyone, you on the other hand seem to be itching to jump all over people for being 'hipsters'... or maybe I'm thinking of a different Fixiekid

This may be a topic better suited for the mechanics forum

How much are shims?

On second thought you're right you might go bankrupt buying a shim.:rolleyes:

Or better yet just get 26.0 bars, there's a thought.
woww...... things that are SUPPOSED to work together.

jeez, i really pissed you off didn't i?

i don't know how much they cost because the mechanics at the shop all agreed it was stupid to buy one. and i don't want to have to buy new bars because i like the ones i've got. and because if i can shim them, what's the point? now if shimming is just a bad idea, say so. otherwise, maybe instead of picking a stupid fight you could answer my question or move along?

See edit.

you're talking about a 0.6mm delta in the diameter, which for the math challenged is 0.3mm shim thickness. you know what a 'proper' shim is going to be? a paper thin sheet of aluminum, or brass if you're shopping at nordstroms.

a well shaped strip from the beverage can of your choice will be just fine. if you want something more techie than the next guy, go to a local hobby shop and get a sheet of brass. they should have many sizes and thicknesses, so you can dial it right in to 0.3mm.

i've been using a $2 piece of hobby shop brass to shim a high-zoot 26.8mm ti seatpost into my newer-than-the-post high-zoot ti mtb frame which takes 27.0mm. no worries after several years of serious off-road abuse.

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance answers all shim questions and much much more. Seriously, read it.

Edit: I apologize for the hostility, I thought this was cnnrmccloskey's thread. But shims work best when they're the proper thickness, but nothing beats a correct fit.

ahhhh... ok, that explains it. i mean, i've def asked some dumb questions since i joined, but this one? seemed pretty harmless to me.

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance answers all shim questions and much much more. Seriously, read it.

probably my favorite book ever.

to summarize: if/when that $2 shim fails, your bike will be worth exactly that.

Edit: I apologize for the hostility, I thought this was cnnrmccloskey's thread. But shims work best when they're the proper thickness, but nothing beats a correct fit.

*EDIT* wrong venue to talk ****.

you're talking about a 0.6mm delta in the diameter, which for the math challenged is 0.3mm shim thickness. you know what a 'proper' shim is going to be? a paper thin sheet of aluminum, or brass if you're shopping at nordstroms.

a well shaped strip from the beverage can of your choice will be just fine. if you want something more techie than the next guy, go to a local hobby shop and get a sheet of brass. they should have many sizes and thicknesses, so you can dial it right in to 0.3mm.

i've been using a $2 piece of hobby shop brass to shim a high-zoot 26.8mm ti seatpost into my newer-than-the-post high-zoot ti mtb frame which takes 27.0mm. no worries after several years of serious off-road abuse.

Wait, you need math to work on bikes now?

http://www.rivbike.com/images/products/full/0000/1060/16-095_Shiminpkg_site_.jpg

you're talking about a 0.6mm delta in the diameter, which for the math challenged is 0.3mm shim thickness. you know what a 'proper' shim is going to be? a paper thin sheet of aluminum, or brass if you're shopping at nordstroms.

a well shaped strip from the beverage can of your choice will be just fine.

0.3mm is about four times thicker than most aluminum beverage cans these days.

http://www.rivbike.com/images/products/full/0000/1060/16-095_Shiminpkg_site_.jpg


What Nitto really needs to do, is to start packaging beer in their shim material, best of both worlds

What Nitto really needs to do, is to start packaging beer in their shim material, best of both worlds

Hahahaha!

I guess there will always be DIY for the mechanically inclined and the "proper" way for double left handed ,anal retentive shop-a-holics:D

0.3mm is about four times thicker than most aluminum beverage cans these days.

0.08mm seems awfully hard to believe? data please?

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance answers all shim questions and much much more. Seriously, read it.

that book sucks.

If your 25.4mm bars are painted or powder coated, you may not need to bother shimming as they're most likely closer to 26mm (or more) anyway.

My powder coated risers (that are supposedly 25.4) measure in at 25.9 on my digital caliper.

I've been riding my bars all this time on a 26 mm stem, under the impression that they were actually 26 mm bars.

I felt compelled to double check online right now and realized they're officially 25.4 mm. Interesting. Never had any issues so I failed to notice. Disaster waiting to happen?

nice. 'cept when i went to the lbs they told me i'd be wasting my money and that i should just use a can. dude.

Hm, I wouldnt listen to them, theres a reason these shims are manufactured, soda can shims DO slip semi easily, even when sanded or whatever. Better to spend $10 or however much it is and have peace of mind. And its a small price to pay versus getting in a colossal and startling crash in the middle of the road.

Nevertheless Im running 25.4 mm bars (nitto b123s) with a 26 mm stem, sans shim. I dont think its really a problem as long as you see some sort of gap between the tightening section of you stem (i.e. you can see a bit of the handlebars between the clamp area of the stem). Then you know that the bolts are exerting the proper pressure on the bars. The problem arises when the bars seem firm but the clamp area of the stem appear to be touching, then it probably hasn't achieved the 'proper pressure' and something bad could happen. Also it depends on what bars you are using. Im not too paranoid, not only because of the little gap, but because im using drops, which make it hard for me to exert too much vertical force. If I was running my bullhorns I might be a bit scared of some type of slippage.

Hm, I wouldnt listen to them, theres a reason these shims are manufactured, soda can shims DO slip semi easily, even when sanded or whatever. Better to spend $10 or however much it is and have peace of mind. And its a small price to pay versus getting in a colossal and startling crash in the middle of the road.

Nevertheless Im running 25.4 mm bars (nitto b123s) with a 26 mm stem, sans shim. I dont think its really a problem as long as you see some sort of gap between the tightening section of you stem (i.e. you can see a bit of the handlebars between the clamp area of the stem). Then you know that the bolts are exerting the proper pressure on the bars. The problem arises when the bars seem firm but the clamp area of the stem appear to be touching, then it probably hasn't achieved the 'proper pressure' and something bad could happen. Also it depends on what bars you are using. Im not too paranoid, not only because of the little gap, but because im using drops, which make it hard for me to exert too much vertical force. If I was running my bullhorns I might be a bit scared of some type of slippage.

Incorrect. Bolts don't exert pressure, the stem itself does. But you can't have even clamping pressure when using a 25.4 bar in a 26.0 stem, so you've introduced the possibility of stress risers. Uneven clamping pressure may or may not be an issue. But you won't know until something fails.

You've got to be kidding me... right? There are people who honestly think that a shim that they buy at a bike shop will work better than a DIY shim made of the appropriate material and of the appropriate thickness? Go to building renovation and construction sites, dumpster dive and pick out aluminum and copper flashing and other sheet metals. You can accrue quite a bit of shim material for free and at the same time help keep some of it out of landfills.

You've got to be kidding me... right? There are people who honestly think that a shim that they buy at a bike shop will work better than a DIY shim made of the appropriate material and of the appropriate thickness? Go to building renovation and construction sites, dumpster dive and pick out aluminum and copper flashing and other sheet metals. You can accrue quite a bit of shim material for free and at the same time help keep some of it out of landfills.

You've got be kidding me...right? You expect people to know where an active construction site is, trespass to go dumpster diving with metal shears ($20+) and dial calipers ($20+) to find a sheet of metal of the right thickness, then take it home and measure and cut it properly in order to save $10 and a trip to a bike shop to buy a Nitto shim. Riiiiight. That's waaaay more reasonable.

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/12/10/128733893677354594.jpg

You've got be kidding me...right? You expect people to know where an active construction site is, trespass to go dumpster diving with metal shears ($20+) and dial calipers ($20+) to find a sheet of metal of the right thickness, then take it home and measure and cut it properly in order to save $10 and a trip to a bike shop to buy a Nitto shim. Riiiiight. That's waaaay more reasonable.

Not that I want to question any moderator's comments, but you totally overlooked the part about keeping some material out of landfills.

that book sucks.

Yeah..it's a philosophy book. Who needs that interfering with our point of view. After all, people know everything. Ask anyone anything! Except for shims of course. Which is why you should read ZAMM because it answers the shim question, if nothing else.

4 million copies in 27 different languages...yeah, it sux.

4 million copies in 27 different languages...yeah, it sux.

Hey - Nickelback may sell a lot of albums in a bunch of different countries too. As a result, are we going to try saying they don't suck?

Hey - Nickelback may sell a lot of albums in a bunch of different countries too. As a result, are we going to try saying they don't suck?

What about Counting Crows?

Let's not exclude "new" Metallica.

No one buys Metallica albums any more.

from Wikipedia:

"St. Anger debuted at the top of sales charts in 30 countries, including the United States Billboard 200 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_200). Upon the release of the album, St. Anger met mixed critical reviews. In 2004, the lead single from the album, "St. Anger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Anger_%28song%29)", won a Grammy Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award) for "Best Metal Performance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Metal_Performance)". The album has also sold over 2 million copies in the US alone and was certified 2x Platinum by the RIAA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA)"

"Death Magnetic debuted at number one on the Billboard 200, selling 490,000 copies in just three days of availability.[55] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Magnetic#cite_note-490.2C000_in_3_days-54) It is the band's fifth consecutive studio album to debut at number one, making Metallica the first band to have five consecutive studio album releases to debut at number one. The album also had the highest first week sales of any Metallica album since 1996's Load (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_%28album%29).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Magnetic#cite_note-billboard_5th_straight_1-2)[56] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Magnetic#cite_note-billboard_chart_history_albums-55)

In Australia, Death Magnetic was the fastest selling album of 2008, selling 55,877 copies in its first full week of release.[63] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Magnetic#cite_note-undausplat-62) Death Magnetic was Australia's highest-selling record in one week since Australian Idol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Idol) winner Damien Leith's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Leith) The Winner's Journey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Winner%27s_Journey_%28Damien_Leith_album%29), in December 2006"

:D

Hey - Nickelback may sell a lot of albums in a bunch of different countries too. As a result, are we going to try saying they don't suck?

The music industry is a money grubbing, soul sucking juggernaut that shoves all kinds of ****e music down our throats. Philosophy books from the 70's couldn't call EMI. It had to have some merit to sell as many copies as it has. You don't have to like it but "that book sucks" is just trite and likely means he didn't or couldn't finish reading it .

It talks extensively about shimming handlebars. And it doesn't suck, not in the least, ever.

I'm still on the thread...

clubman - I was kinda just kidding. I liked that book a lot, even if it never was on Oparh's Book Club list.

Brian - you're just trying to suck up 'cause you just got your ass handed to you.

I'm ornery tonight...don't mess with my already hazy recollection of the 70's.

Brian - you're just trying to suck up 'cause you just got your ass handed to you.

Hey, he referred to the two of us. Apparently, we're a team.

http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2004_Starsky_and_Hutch/2004_starsky_and_hutch_003.jpg

Cut a shim from a Coke can. You only need a shim that is 0.6mm thick.

Just for the record, I don't think you will save Mother Earth by re-cycling 2 square inches of 0.6mm aluminum, but at least it won't cost $10.

Hey, he referred to the two of us. Apparently, we're a team.

http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2004_Starsky_and_Hutch/2004_starsky_and_hutch_003.jpg

I meant by me. :innocent:

I meant by me. :innocent:

Ok...

I didn't edit, just put some stuff about Australia in bold. ;)

At any rate, this thread is about "properly" shimming bars. Wouldn't the "proper" way to shim bars be to use a "proper" shim?

It's 10 bucks. Is that REALLY too much ro spend to do something correctly? Why people love to make easy **** difficult is beyond me.

I didn't edit, just put some stuff about Australia in bold. ;)



They've banned me from editing. Seriously.

Exactly.

You've got be kidding me...right? You expect people to know where an active construction site is, trespass to go dumpster diving with metal shears ($20+) and dial calipers ($20+) to find a sheet of metal of the right thickness, then take it home and measure and cut it properly in order to save $10 and a trip to a bike shop to buy a Nitto shim. Riiiiight. That's waaaay more reasonable.

LOL! So you did take the hint, followed the link and learned about sarcasm. It's good to see you're trying your hand at it.

I didn't edit, just put some stuff about Australia in bold. ;)

At any rate, this thread is about "properly" shimming bars. Wouldn't the "proper" way to shim bars be to use a "proper" shim?

It's 10 bucks. Is that REALLY too much ro spend to do something correctly? Why people love to make easy **** difficult is beyond me.

Ok well as the person who started this thread, I'll just jump in here and say that my initial question was whether the coke can thing worked or not, since the trusty mechanics at the lbs were all in agreement that an official shim was a waste of money, and that I'd be fine with can. But clearly I wouldn't be. So now I'm going to get a set of digital calipers, tin snips and bolt cutters (I'll need those when I break into the construction site). I'm sure that once I own about... hmmm... 5 bikes with mismatched bars and stems and seat tubes and posts then this investment will pay for itself. Thanks guys! ;)

I've used a can several times for a 25.4 -> 26 shim. Never had a problem.

I've used a can several times for a 25.4 -> 26 shim. Never had a problem.
You know why? Because you paid attention to what you were doing and took a common sense approach to it. That's the difference between success and failure.

I'd have to guess that the naysayers are either talking without actually having tried to make a shim or have done so and failed. In the case of having failed it's a lot easier for them to blame the material rather than the inability of the "user". Right?

We're talking about a shim, people. We're not discussing anything like casting cranksets or extruding frame tubing out of beer cans. I will tell most mechanically competent people who come in to the shop for a shim how to make one for themselves. However there are some individuals who I will sell a $12 shim to with no questions asked... like the guy who comes into the shop who, before buying a pair of sunglasses asks if they are CYCLING sunglasses, like what Lance wore at the blahdeblah race in whogivesasquat. If it would make you feel any better I would even do you the favor of charging you double so that you really feel that you're getting your money's worth.