Living Car Free - Need some advice

Here's the situation: my husband and I are both unemployed and job prospects don't look like they'll turn around for us any time soon. Part of that is that we're both old enough to know what we're good at and what we like to do and the environments that suit us and aren't willing to put up with uncongenial conditions. Soooo.....I've been wanting to move for a long time, to downsize, and to go car free. I don't need good public transportation, just roads that I can safely bike on throughout the year so even in a cold climate I could do this if I can find a flat-ish place to live (it's the enormous hills that kill me here as I just can't take flying down a 700' foot drop with a subzero wind chill). I'd also like to get out of New England as I've lived here 25 years and am kind of tired of the affluent competitive climate. Where should we go? Where can you live car free, low budget, in a fairly liberal environment and with laid back friendly people? If we sell our house, we'll probably be able to bank about $200,000. I'd plan on renting for a year or two at least until we either 1) move to another area b/c one of us finds a job that is a great fit or 2) figure out how to permanently get by on part-time incomes. I'd like to figure out a plan soon as our unemployment checks will cease in about 7 months so if we're going to move, it's best to make that decision soon, imo. But I don't think staying is much of an option either as the job prospects for my field (higher ed) aren't great in this area and I just couldn't go back to driving an hour each way to work. thanks!

Everything you write screams "college town" to me.

I would invite you here to East Lansing, but the employment situation probably isn't any better here. But it is a nice flat town, and right next to a bigger city.

Yes... sounds like maybe Davis, CA or Eugene OR.

Funny you never mention family or friends... isn't that a consideration too? What about weather? Lot of spots in the upper MidWest (Madison WI comes to mind...) that would fit the bill you describe. But flat terrain seems a moot point in January, I bet.

Funny you never mention family or friends... isn't that a consideration too? What about weather? Lot of spots in the upper MidWest (Madison WI comes to mind...) that would fit the bill you describe.

Well, we've lived near my husband's sister (and our 4 nieces and nephews) for the past 20 yrs and now that my youngest nephew is almost out of the house, my sister-in-law is thinking about moving from the area also. Our parents are in FL, my sister is in Seattle, we are both from the Pittsburgh, PA area and have family back there as well so you can see we aren't tied to the area we're in and we could end up in lots of places and still be near family of some sort. Yeah, I like Madison, Lansing, Eugene, and Davis for sure....I guess I'm just wondering if it's a good idea to pack up and move even w/o jobs. My main goal is to slash our living expenses to the bone so that (when we find jobs) we can bank as much as possible for the next 5 yrs or so and then be in a position to move closer to an ideal situation which for me is p/t work for income, lots of volunteer work for bike advocacy projects and other such causes. I'd love to live in Portland, OR but housing prices are way too high there so we'd be renters and it would be fun to do that for a year or two out there.

As Roody said, College towns seem to be what you are describing.

Lawrence, Kansas
Liberal college town "KU"
Minus a few big hills, Lawrence is mostly rolling or flat
30 minutes outside of Kansas City
Friendly and cost of living is reasonable

Try New Orleans. It has many colleges throughout the area. It is flat and warm. There are plenty of roads with shoulders. There is ample public transportation almost everywhere. I don't know about the housing situation these days since I moved away after Hurricane Katrina. Initially prices went way up after the storm due to so many homes being destroyed or damaged. Things have probably settled down to normal by now.

It does have a crime problem, though most of it is related to drug dealers killing each other.

Just call a realtor and enquire about buying a small apartment building somewhere in town that you intend to occupy. I bet they could tell you plenty.

If you have a chance to move this would seem the time to do it. If you are in education a consideration should be towards faster growing areas. Except for the liberal area Texas would fill many of your needs. But for car free it would seem that warmer areas would make it easier even if people can and do cycle year round in colder climates. http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/texas-leads-us-in-high-growth-cities

I might recommend the Dayton OH area. We have over 200 miles of MUP. The city is attempting to achieve the "Bronze" level cycling town status. We are reasonably flat and our winters while cold are certainly not as harsh as you've dealt with in New Hampshire or even Pittsburgh. Housing in the area is very reasonable and renting should not be outlandish. We are home to the Wright Bros. and still have a bike shop museum. We have several bike shops in the area selling everything from the standards to shops that specialize in tri bikes, and italian racing bikes. I haven't been able to get anyone too excited about converting my Raleigh Mixte to a 650B yet but I'm working on it. We have several areas nearby if you enjoy mountain biking. Dayton is relatively easy to get out of (because of the MUP) and get into the country. Ohio has a lot of back country roads which are lightly traveled. Dayton has an active bike club which offers lots of club rides, a Mountain bike club, and a Tri club. If want links to any of this info I am sure I can get it for you. Here are a couple.

http://www.downtowndayton.org/pdfs/recommendations_rivers_appendix1.pdf

www.daytoncyclingclub.org

Good luck in your search.

You might try Fayetteville, AR.

As others have said, it looks like college towns are the ticket for you. Lots to choose from.

What climate do you want? What terrain?

Leon/Jefferson/Gadsden/Wakulla/Liberty/Franklin counties, FL. Within all these are at least four major universities and the state's capital city. The awesome thing about North Florida is that you don't have to go far from the cities to find great rural communities and destinations. Having slightly cooler temps than SF + many springs and sinkholes to swim helps too. Just stay away from Leon County if you don't like hills.

Austin, tx has a pretty good sized carfree population.
I bet you would fit right in.

Enjoy

Well, we've lived near my husband's sister (and our 4 nieces and nephews) for the past 20 yrs and now that my youngest nephew is almost out of the house, my sister-in-law is thinking about moving from the area also. Our parents are in FL, my sister is in Seattle, we are both from the Pittsburgh, PA area and have family back there as well so you can see we aren't tied to the area we're in and we could end up in lots of places and still be near family of some sort. Yeah, I like Madison, Lansing, Eugene, and Davis for sure....I guess I'm just wondering if it's a good idea to pack up and move even w/o jobs. My main goal is to slash our living expenses to the bone so that (when we find jobs) we can bank as much as possible for the next 5 yrs or so and then be in a position to move closer to an ideal situation which for me is p/t work for income, lots of volunteer work for bike advocacy projects and other such causes. I'd love to live in Portland, OR but housing prices are way too high there so we'd be renters and it would be fun to do that for a year or two out there.
I think if your unemployment is transferable it might be a good time to move. A lot of people uproot in economic hard times. Try to analyze employment prospects out over the next few years. Some hard hit areas will bounce back, others will not.

In general, I think the midwest and the plains states have lower living costs right now. Here in Lansing, for example, you can now buy a nice house from 50K to 130K. Rent for a very nice 2BR apartment will be around $600/mo.

I would second Madison WI (where I live currently), though housing is a bit more than you may find elsewhere. That said, if you move toward the edges of town, you can find apartments a bit cheaper, and to ride to the other side of town is still less than 12 miles. Plus, if you are unemployed, you can choose where you live in a city more based on cost of living and a grocery store than where your work is.

I find Madison very easy to move around on bike, even during the winter. When the roads were truly bad this winter, I took MUP all but 1/2 a mile to work. That way, when I fell, there wasn't a car to run me over.

Raleigh-Durham NC might be a good fit.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys!! I love OH (always have) and north FL would be terrific as well. So would Madison. but do we just pick a spot and go? We get unemployment benefits for another 7 months or so (don't know if we can just move and have them transfer, will have to find out). I just applied for a job today near Philadelphia which would be really nice in a lot of ways. My husband is talking about Costa Rica and Panama now......but I would be happy w/ 200 mi of MUP in just about any climate anywhere.

Everything you write screams "college town" to me.

I would invite you here to East Lansing, but the employment situation probably isn't any better here. But it is a nice flat town, and right next to a bigger city.How's Ann Arbor doing these days?

b
My husband is talking about Costa Rica and Panama now......but I would be happy w/ 200 mi of MUP in just about any climate anywhere.

You could ask BF member CRtreedude about Costa Rica - he is an American businessman who owns a tree plantation there.

I sold my car and started working only 4 days a week instead of 5. I have no need to slave away 40 hours a week because I live simple. After selling my car I hardly have any expenses at all actually.

Also I think Davis, CA is the most bike friendly city in the United States. Not what some survey says....but actually truely is. I'm in Santa Clara, CA and things are ok here bike wise. I see myself moving to Davis someday though.

I'd add my vote to Davis (Stanford is nice, too). Really cool little place...

Philadelphia might be a good fit--tons of colleges within a 15 mile drive (UPenn, Drexel, USP, Bryn Mawr, Haveford, Swarthmore, Philadelphia University, the list goes on). It's easy to get around by bike, there are farmers markets, community gardens, etc and quite a few liberal-minded neighborhoods. University City/West Philly, Mt. Airy, Germantown, and Southwest Center City are all wonderful communities in and of themselves. As cities go, Philly is cheap. You can get a rowhome or twin in a decent area for $175-250k.

How's Ann Arbor doing these days?

Ann Arbor is fine, thanks. erbfarm might like it--flat, liberal, lots of bikes and trails. I don't like the traffic there--it's part of the SE Michigan Madhouse when it comes to cycling in congestion and sprawl.

I'm hearing that Detroit itself (not the suburbs) is shaping up to be a great bike city.

Nobody has mentioned Corvallis OR. Another college town, relatively low cost of living, flat, decent climate.

yep, Corvallis would be terrific

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada is probably the most bike-friendly city in western Canada, if not the whole country. If you're a liberal person, you'll find plenty of others who fit right in. The drawbacks are the high cost of living and the wet winter weather. Also, it's not within the United States, which will bring in a host of other factors if you're looking to relocate.

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada is probably the most bike-friendly city in western Canada, if not the whole country. If you're a liberal person, you'll find plenty of others who fit right in. The drawbacks are the high cost of living and the wet winter weather. Also, it's not within the United States, which will bring in a host of other factors if you're looking to relocate.

Is it hard for yanks to emigrate to Canada?

Any international move is going to be more involved than a move within the same country.

Here's some information about moving to Canada.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.asp

Eugene is about as bike friendly as it gets, pretty flat and a bike lane on almost every street. Very liberal in culture and government as well. I might recommend at least one of you finding a job before you move there, though.

Portland has a great biking culture as well, definitely offers more job opportunities. It's not as flat or mellow as Eugene, but the public transportation system there works very well (and you can put your bike on the bus).

Charleston, SC is also a great city to live in. Really warm climate means you can ride all year. Downtown is very easy to bike around, some of the arms and legs of the city can be a little tough though.

My $.02

Any international move is going to be more involved than a move within the same country.

Here's some information about moving to Canada.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.asp
Thanks! :)

I'll pass the link along to a friend who claims she's really going to move to Canada this time if the GOP takes the House and Senate.

Any international move is going to be more involved than a move within the same country.

As someone who has done the reverse route, I'd like to second that one. It's also a big cultural change... which is probably an even bigger hurdle than the red tape.

Roody, your friend is welcome here. Remember, as Gerv said, there are some significant cultural differences between our two countries.

I would second Madison WI (where I live currently), though housing is a bit more than you may find elsewhere. That said, if you move toward the edges of town, you can find apartments a bit cheaper, and to ride to the other side of town is still less than 12 miles. Plus, if you are unemployed, you can choose where you live in a city more based on cost of living and a grocery store than where your work is.

I find Madison very easy to move around on bike, even during the winter. When the roads were truly bad this winter, I took MUP all but 1/2 a mile to work. That way, when I fell, there wasn't a car to run me over.

I wouldn't describe it in quite such a rosy fashion :). We do a good job here, but I live pretty central, and it is a sold 8 miles to the East Side Target, and a solid 10 to the one on the West Side (do not, under any circumstances move near there). And there are plenty of situations where you might need to go a good ways further east than Target and still be in Madison. So it's about 20-22 miles east to west, and iirc it's about 10-15 miles north to south.

The far west side is pretty bike unfriendly. You can make it work, and since my sister-outlaw lives out there, I do. The area up around the airport is also pretty bad. There isn't really a viable way to bike to the airport that I've found. This is hysterically funny IMO, since unlike most airports, Madison's would be very easy to make bike friendly.

The main issue I can see with moving here is that right now, we don't have train service, and the intracity buses do not take regular bikes except in a box. A lesser issue is there are some serious food deserts, so you really want to get advice before you pick an apartment location. The winter of 2007 would have been a lot worse for us if we weren't so close to Copp's. And if we had ended up on the Southwest Path over by Cub... we'd be in pretty bad shape right now.

I would worry about being car-free in a place with snow. It is possible to get around by bicycle in snowy places ALMOST all the time, but once in a while conditions effectively immobilize a person. Those times seem to come when a kid has to go to the emergency room or the dog to the vet. I live in Minneapolis and am trying to reduce car use, but totally car-free...I don't know.

I would worry about being car-free in a place with snow. It is possible to get around by bicycle in snowy places ALMOST all the time, but once in a while conditions effectively immobilize a person. Those times seem to come when a kid has to go to the emergency room or the dog to the vet. I live in Minneapolis and am trying to reduce car use, but totally car-free...I don't know.
Don't they have taxis in Minneapolis?

I would worry about being car-free in a place with snow. It is possible to get around by bicycle in snowy places ALMOST all the time, but once in a while conditions effectively immobilize a person. Those times seem to come when a kid has to go to the emergency room or the dog to the vet. I live in Minneapolis and am trying to reduce car use, but totally car-free...I don't know.

Um... wha?

I know plenty of people disagree with me on this... but the key criterion for if car free is viable is how walkable your area is. Not bikeable. You're not gonna get to the hospital safely in a car or on a bike if there are 2-4 foot snowdrifts across the road in places. If you're walking, you have a chance. (realistically, no your kids and pets aren't reliably needing to go to the ER in that kind of storm... if they were, they'd be dead, or you'd have a lot of stories about hair raising ambulance rides.)

And even in the Twin Cities, that kind of snowstorm is only going to come up once a winter or so... Some winters you might have 3 of 'em, but that is a phenomenally bad winter.

And yes, I can walk to the hospital. And the doctor's office. And the vet.

Um... wha?

I know plenty of people disagree with me on this... but the key criterion for if car free is viable is how walkable your area is. Not bikeable. You're not gonna get to the hospital safely in a car or on a bike if there are 2-4 foot snowdrifts across the road in places. .

If it's a real medical emergency, you're probably not going to be walking. However, I agree with you that for many people, they could only be car-free in a downtown, or the centre of a small town, where you can walk to whatever you need.

Um... wha?

[SNIP]

And yes, I can walk to the hospital. And the doctor's office. And the vet.
You are of course assuming that people who need emergency care ( or need transport someone else who needs it) is capable of walking or riding a bike to the hospital, no matter what the weather. It must be nice to always be able bodied even when needing emergency health care. Or have the patience to wait for a taxi or bus when a loved one is in need of EMERGENCY care.

You are of course assuming that people who need emergency care ( or need transport someone else who needs it) is capable of walking or riding a bike to the hospital, no matter what the weather. It must be nice to always be able bodied even when needing emergency health care. Or have the patience to wait for a taxi or bus when a loved one is in need of EMERGENCY care.

Anybody with a brain in their head would call an ambulance in case of a real EMERGENCY.

(And obviously Torrilin has a pretty good brain in her head!)

Anybody with a brain in their head would call an ambulance in case of a real EMERGENCY.

(And obviously Torrilin has a pretty good brain in her head!)
I see, for Brainiacs there are either ambulance cases or they can walk/stroll to a medical facility for whatever ails them or their dependents; got it.

I see, for Brainiacs there are either ambulance cases or they can walk/stroll to a medical facility for whatever ails them or their dependents; got it.Yes, exactly, if they live close to a hospital, which is what Torrilin was talking about.

Yes, exactly, if they live close to a hospital, which is what Torrilin was talking about.
Yes good advice for the OP and spouse. Move to an affordable, good weather location within walking distance of a hospital, work, shops, entertainment, transport centers, schools, etc. Just like all the Brainy people here.

Yes good advice for the OP and spouse. Move to an affordable, good weather location within walking distance of a hospital, work, shops, entertainment, transport centers, schools, etc. Just like all the Brainy people here.

lol

You are of course assuming that people who need emergency care ( or need transport someone else who needs it) is capable of walking or riding a bike to the hospital, no matter what the weather. It must be nice to always be able bodied even when needing emergency health care. Or have the patience to wait for a taxi or bus when a loved one is in need of EMERGENCY care.

No. I'm assuming that most of the time, the situation is not one where you're dealing with the one hour clock of get this person to a doctor within an hour or less, or the survival odds are very small. This is a reasonable assumption, because the list of medical problems where you're really on the one hour clock is very short. Arterial bleeding. Large broken bones. Stroke. Some (tho not all) heart attacks. Heat stroke. Hypothermia. Large scale burns. Fevers over 103F. Stopped breathing. Y'know. The stuff that kills, and kills fast.

For those kinds of problems, the hospital will send an ambulance. Even into a snow storm that most cars can't handle. Even up into the middle of nowhere in the Appalachians, where the EMTs know they're likely to have to dig the ambulance out when it gets stuck on a 10% grade. If it's snowing that much, they can't send a medevac helicopter. And depending on how badly you got yourself lost, they may not be able to send the helicopter... it might be you're hoping a bunch of Wilderness EMTs can hike in, and hike you out on a backboard.

For smaller stuff (which is mercifully almost everything), being within a realistic walking distance really does mean you have a chance of rescuing yourself. It's not a good one. But if the snow is that bad, being 5 blocks away ups your odds. Hell, 5 blocks, the EMTs can walk to you. This is good, because if the snow is bad... you're not getting a taxi, and the buses aren't running, and the hospital is coordinating rescues of the entire staff.

Realistically, you can't build your life around the odds of severe weather. Most areas in the world, there is some fun and exciting weather disaster that can really ruin your week (or life). If it's not weather, maybe it's earthquakes. Or volcanoes. No place on earth is disaster immune. If you think you've found a disaster immune spot... check the fire extinguishers and make sure you've got radon detectors and carbon monoxide detectors :).

Or, to put the whole thing a LOT shorter... no, owning a car will not magically prevent blizzards. And not owning a car won't even prevent car accidents...

You sometimes hear this type of argument to cover an event that might occur:
I need a truck because I sometimes carry lawn building supplies.
I have a car in case I might need to get to the Emergency room quickly.
I have a gun in case someone breaks into the house.
I have an underground shelter in case the Russians send a nuke in... it might keep me alive an extra six weeks.
I have an extensive nuclear arsenal in case some country might someday get around to building an arsenal up to 10% of mine.

that sort of logic...

While we're on the topic, I'll tell again of an experience I had a few years ago. My adult son, who was living with me at the time, had an exacerbation of a chronic health problem in the middle of the night. It was a situation that didn't quite call for an ambulance, but we didn't want to ride our bikes to the hospital either.

I called for a cab, telling the dispatcher that we needed to get to the hospital as soon as posible. The cab arrived within 10 or 15 minutes. While we were en route to the hospital, the driver got on his cell phone and arranged for them to bring a wheelchair to the ER entrance. He was very calm and professional but he really blew my mind with his kindness. He gave me his cell phone number and said I could just call when I wanted to go home. He said, "I know that a lot of times in the middle of the night, people don't have much cash on hand for an emergency. If you're short of cash, I'll be happy to take you home at no charge."

I'm not suggesting that you'll always encounter such kindness and professionalism when you call a cab. It might take an hour to get there or something--who knows? Obviously, if time is of the essence you should call an ambulance--even if you have a car available. But a taxi is a workable alternative in less urgent situations.

You sometimes hear this type of argument to cover an event that might occur:
I need a truck because I sometimes carry lawn building supplies.
I have a car in case I might need to get to the Emergency room quickly.
I have a gun in case someone breaks into the house.
I have an underground shelter in case the Russians send a nuke in... it might keep me alive an extra six weeks.
I have an extensive nuclear arsenal in case some country might someday get around to building an arsenal up to 10% of mine.

that sort of logic...

I have an ignore button on bikeforums in case somebody bugs me too much. :D

I would worry about being car-free in a place with snow. It is possible to get around by bicycle in snowy places ALMOST all the time, but once in a while conditions effectively immobilize a person. Those times seem to come when a kid has to go to the emergency room or the dog to the vet. I live in Minneapolis and am trying to reduce car use, but totally car-free...I don't know.
I've been car-free when I lived in Winnipeg and when I lived in Toronto. In both cases, I was in cities with good transit systems and plentiful taxi services and I lived reasonably close to most amenities. That was what made a car-free life possible there. In a small town, with many basic services unavailable locally and without a workable transit system, car-free living will be out of reach, no matter how pleasant the climate.

If you can take heat and humidity I'd recommend Austin, Texas or New Orleans. I lived in N.O. for 65 years. Living exp. is comparatively cheap. Higher Ed., Tulane Univ. , Loyola Univ. located in uptown N.O. Wouldn't raise young children there. Flat as a pancake! I cycled to work for many years from the lake front to downtown. Forget the suburbs live in the city. Austin is fantastic in every way except heat. Austin is the only place in all of Texas you'll find a liberal mind. Best of luck.

If you move to Canada, I can give a big thumbs up for Vancouver. I have friends in Athens, GA and they just bought a house with three bedrooms for I think 80,000.

Me, I like the idea of Panama, the money can last, but how do you get more?

I agree with you about the costs and weather of New England. Good luck!

Other Canadian cities to consider are Victoria, B.C., Calgary and Toronto. All three have good cycling infrastructures in place and all three have good numbers of cyclists. The drawback is that they are all quite expensive, especially for housing.

Yes good advice for the OP and spouse. Move to an affordable, good weather location within walking distance of a hospital, work, shops, entertainment, transport centers, schools, etc. .Why yes, that is exactly what she asked for - thank you for sticking to topic.