Advocacy & Safety - Helpless people and a flat tire.

http://www.slowbikemiami.com/my-first-flat-tire/

How helpless can one get?

-Kurt

Did you take some meds for the pain?

why did you need to share this pain?

and why on earth did they put a tire like that on the back.

lol, that was indeed painful, i want my 90 seconds back

How many motorists today can change their tire? I wouldn't expect a lot of bicyclists to be able do the same.

How many motorists today can change their tire? I wouldn't expect a lot of bicyclists to be able do the same.

Now that you mention it, it amazes me how many grown adults I know that still need to call their daddy/husband/AAA because turning 4-5 lug nuts is too complex for them. That should be part of the DMV test to get a license.

How many motorists today can change their tire?

That's equally as frightening, if not more surprising (considering the abundance of motor vehicle owners). Hell, they don't even have to worry about tubes anymore.

-Kurt

How many motorists today can change their tire? I wouldn't expect a lot of bicyclists to be able do the same.
Auto tires do not go flat nearly as often as they did in years past. I haven't had a flat tire in probably 25 years or more.

Humans are not born either knowing how to change bike tires nor with the required equipment.

Applying derisive labels like "helpless" is no way to enhance advocacy or safety. If you care about the issue, help and teach.

If you care about the issue, help and teach.

Where can you teach the most?
At a bike shop, where the helpless take their flats.
Will the bike shop teach?
No, they only want to bill the helpless folk $5 for the tube, and $5 for installation labor.
People remain ignorant.

-Kurt

Auto tires do not go flat nearly as often as they did in years past. I haven't had a flat tire in probably 25 years or more.

They happen a lot more in places where there is a lot of residential construction. I've pulled eight nails out of the tires of our two cars in the last eleven years. When my wife and I moved into our new house, her car flatted at the bottom of the driveway. She insisted on calling AAA, but I was mortified. I raced to fix the tire (in full view of the new neighbors) before the truck could get there. I won, and shared some beer with the bystanders.

I've helped lots of newbies fix flats during large organized group bike rides. If we have time, I make them do it, but I coach them. Many seem intimidated by the rear drivetrain, but the part that is actually hardest for many people is getting the tire back on the rim if it's tight.

Think a mobile bike repair biz would take off?

How about a phone/handheld-friendly web site with videos explaining on-road bike repair step-by-step?

Auto tires do not go flat nearly as often as they did in years past. I haven't had a flat tire in probably 25 years or more.

That's great! I wish I could say the same, plus I cannot recall how many flats I've changed for myself as well as for others in the past 25 years. I changed a tire just 4 months ago on the mother in law's car due to sidewall damage, and repaired another on a family member's vehicle due to road debris about a quarter the size of a dime.

Humans are not born either knowing how to change bike tires nor with the required equipment.

Applying derisive labels like "helpless" is no way to enhance advocacy or safety. If you care about the issue, help and teach.

And even on this very forum you can find threads of people saying, I tried to put so-and-so tire on the rim and it was difficult--I broke the tire lever, etc. It's not necessarily a trivial operation. However, it is likely that many cyclists don't think about mechanics or maintenance until it is too late.

I've changed a flat on my car, and I have to say, I'd just as soon have someone else do it if I can.

Well, changing a car tire is pretty hard and requires special tools. I've done it with crowbars and it's actually incredibly dangerous; the crowbars can fly back into your face.

Luckily car drivers usually only have to put on the spare wheel+tire.

I also haven't changed a tire on a car for many years. I did have a blowout about 6 years ago, before that it was probably another 5 or 6 years. I have friends who have blowouts fairly often, but I've ridden with them and I know why; they tend to hit curbs and potholes, they're really hard on their tires and cars.

As far as changing a bike tire, anyone who can't do it after just watching someone do it once is truly hopeless; it's not like it's difficult or anything. Heck, go to youtube and look it up, watch for 5 minutes, you should be good.

Now that you mention it, it amazes me how many grown adults I know that still need to call their daddy/husband/AAA because turning 4-5 lug nuts is too complex for them. That should be part of the DMV test to get a license.

I agree. Myself and most of my friends wouldn't let their kids drive without demonstrating that they knew how to change a tire without help.

I agree. Myself and most of my friends wouldn't let their kids drive without demonstrating that they knew how to change a tire without help.

Inability to change a tire still happens, since there are parents who themselves do not know how to change a tire. The worst part is that many vehicles now require the lug nuts to be torqued to ft/lbs ratings of a 100 lbs or more, beyond the physical strength of some motorists to loosen, requiring help from others.

Inability to change a tire still happens, since there are parents who themselves do not know how to change a tire. The worst part is that many vehicles now require the lug nuts to be torqued to ft/lbs ratings of a 100 lbs or more, beyond the physical strength of some motorists to loosen, requiring help from others.

Just buy a cross wrench. My 12 year old can get off lug bolts tightened to 120 foot pounds if he uses a cross wrench. I put one in every car I own; I've had too many stock tire tools just fall apart in use, and with a cross wrench I can help people with different sized lug bolts than I have. It's a very good $15 investment.

Just buy a cross wrench.

I can just see my 78 year old mother in law wrestling a cross wrench.

I can just see my 78 year old mother in law wrestling a cross wrench.

My mom is in her mid 80s, and is pretty small, about 100 pounds. She could probably do it if she really had to, though I'd encourage her to just call someone, certainly.

It's actually harder for people with limited physical ability to get the car jack placed properly and the car jacked up safely than to do the actual tire changing.

How about a phone/handheld-friendly web site with videos explaining on-road bike repair step-by-step?

But I want to get out of the house!!

But I want to get out of the house!!

Good point. I'm the same way, but I have a lot of non-cycling geek friends who seem to live for posting how-to videos on the Internet.

But it looks well covered on YouTube already!
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fix+a+flat+bike+tire&aq=4

Maybe you should look inward and examine why this irritates you so much, grasshopper?

;)

It's actually harder for people with limited physical ability to get the car jack placed properly and the car jacked up safely than to do the actual tire changing.

Not just limited physical ability. I know at least 2 people who have put their jack through the gas tank.

Many bike shops will give free classes on tire changes. It's almost necessary to learn if you do any amount of riding.

Where can you teach the most?
At a bike shop, where the helpless take their flats.
Will the bike shop teach?
No, they only want to bill the helpless folk $5 for the tube, and $5 for installation labor.
People remain ignorant.

-Kurt

Kurt,

I work at a bike shop that teaches 3 to 4 programs a week in the store. That includes Fix - A - Flat, and Basic Bike Maintenance programs, Park Tools School and other bicycle related programs. Please remember that some people are in this business becuase they love riding bicycles...

Thanks!

-Elliot

I work at a bike shop that teaches 3 to 4 programs a week in the store. That includes Fix - A - Flat, and Basic Bike Maintenance programs, Park Tools School and other bicycle related programs.

I salute you and your shop.

-Kurt

How to change a bike tire.
1. Open rear pannier. Take out bike jack.
2. Jack up bike after making sure the emergency brake is set, unless it's a fixie. To be safe, put a rock under the wheel not being repaired. Also helps to have a good kickstand.
3. Take out spare wheel from rear pannier. Undo quick release skewer on affected wheel. Rear wheels are trickier because of the bike chain. Make sure you have both a front and rear spare wheel in case either gets flatted.
4. Take off flatted wheel, exchange it with proper spare, tighten skewer, lower bike jack, toss away the rock, and put everything back in the rear pannier.
5. Take flat to bike shop so they can change out the tube and/or tire.

No so difficult, really. :)

Not just limited physical ability. I know at least 2 people who have put their jack through the gas tank.

Many bike shops will give free classes on tire changes. It's almost necessary to learn if you do any amount of riding.

When it comes to using the jack things have gotten harder. Old style bumper jacks were easy to use, but you needed an old style bumper. Come to think of it older cars had better standard tools. Not perfect, but servicable. Some more recent tools are all but useless when the nuts ate tight. I once actually got the rear wheel all but off the ground, but the length of the wrench supplied with the car still did not have enough torque to gets the nut loose.

There are some 'tricks' to changing even a car tire. The one that comes to mind is get the nut started before jacking up the tire.

No so difficult, really. :)
Remember, unless its a true full sized spare, you can't ride it more than 50mph or 50 miles. :P

How many motorists today can change their tire? I wouldn't expect a lot of bicyclists to be able do the same.

Around here, too many people clog up the 911 operators calling about a flat tire. I carry a piece of fencing post (pipe) about 3' long. It's my "cheater bar". I can lossen tight lug nuts.

My wife definitely knows how to change a tire and has done it, but if the tires haven't been taken off by me since the last trip to the tire shop she wouldn't be able to loosen the lug nuts. I taught her how not long after getting married. My dad taught me at about 10 years old how to change a bike tire and I've never had one changed by someone else since. I agree with the above sentiment. To paraphrase a parable, "Change a man's tire and you help him for a day. Teach him how to fix it and you help for a lifetime."

Now that you mention it, it amazes me how many grown adults I know that still need to call their daddy/husband/AAA because turning 4-5 lug nuts is too complex for them. That should be part of the DMV test to get a license.

Why should it? How 'bout a requirement to know how to adjust brakes and perform tune ups? More opportunity for weeding out motorists who aren't as mechanically talented as you and the OP?

Why should it? How 'bout a requirement to know how to adjust brakes and perform tune ups? More opportunity for weeding out motorists who aren't as mechanically talented as you and the OP?

False equivalence; flats are simple-to-resolve and unplanned, tuneups are something you can plan ahead for, but need mechanical knowledge to do.

Yeah, I don't quite follow that. Putting a spare tire on a car is only slightly more complicated than changing a light bulb. It's something that anyone with 15 minutes of free time can learn how to do and every car is equipped with the basic tools to do it.

And of course, there's the obvious safety benefit of being stranded on either the busiest freeway or the most remote rural backroad for as short a time as possible.

because turning 4-5 lug nuts is too complex for them.Changing a car tire is a lot more complicated than "turning 4-5 lug nuts". Most of the drama comes from the jack, especially those scissor jacks that come with cars. (A rolling floor jack makes it a lot easier.) And there's a certain amount of danger, especially if the person doesn't stop the car in an appropriate place or doesn't jack it up properly.

That should be part of the DMV test to get a license.What useful purpose would that serve?

Flat tires on a car are pretty rare. If they want to call for help, let 'em.

Flat tires on a bike are a lot more common. They're also easier to fix -- well, less dangerous anyways. But you don't have to know how to do that either -- a phone can summon help there too.

Changing a car tire is a lot more complicated than "turning 4-5 lug nuts". Most of the drama comes from the jack, especially those scissor jacks that come with cars. (A rolling floor jack makes it a lot easier.) And there's a certain amount of danger, especially if the person doesn't stop the car in an appropriate place or doesn't jack it up properly.
What useful purpose would that serve?

Flat tires on a car are pretty rare. If they want to call for help, let 'em.

Flat tires on a bike are a lot more common. They're also easier to fix -- well, less dangerous anyways. But you don't have to know how to do that either -- a phone can summon help there too.

What, is this board populated by the tow truck lobby or something? It used to be argued that pumping gas was too dangerous for the average consumer too, which is equally ridiculous. Yes, part of learning how to change a flat is being told how to position the car and jack.

What is dangerous is being stranded on the side of a busy freeway while a bunch of drunks pass by, or in the middle of nowhere while absolutely nobody passes by, or just driving the tire off your rims because you don't know what else to do.


Anyway, the point is that we make people learn various bits of stuff before they're given a license, some parts being more necessary than others, and I would argue that having motorists who know how to change a flat is certainly more important than say testing their ability to parallel park (which is done in many states). You can always plan your destination around your ability to park, but flat tires just happen. And it's a low-hanging fruit. There would be no tangible cost to society if everyone had to take 15 minutes of their life to learn this skill. Besides, even if someone knew how to change a spare and still chose to call AAA, at least maybe they'd learn enough to give a fellow motorist a few extra feet when they're on the shoulder changing a tire.

What, is this board populated by the tow truck lobby or something?
Nope, just some people who are skeptical about dingy 'good ideas' on regulating and/restricting driving licenses espoused by smarmy bicycling advocates. Also some posters skeptical of BF trollers who take special delight in initiating threads to disparage other cyclists who don't meet an "approved" level of technical skill in riding or repairing or appreciating the correct brand of bicycling equipment.

And self-important reservoirs of prejudice against any and everything.

So shut off your hate machine and go ride/push your 12-speed Centurion to the co-op, so you can get your warp removed... if there's a spoke wrench BIG enough to do that.

As far as being unable to change tires with difficult nuts, or having to use extenders, I'm telling you guys, buy a cross wrench. The tire tools that come with cars are not only generally garbage, I've seen them fall apart in use, but having a lever in only one direction makes it far harder to remove tough bolts.
With a cross wrench, you can have a hand pushing and one pulling, with your body centered around the work. It's much more efficient and the same person can apply a lot more force, and it's safer too.

Besides, cross wrenches have 4 sizes so you can help with other people's tires, and also change the tires on a trailer if you're pulling one.

Where can you teach the most?
At a bike shop, where the helpless take their flats.
Will the bike shop teach?

Some shops teach.

I teach in my garage and on the side of the road/path.

This seems very simple. Does your problem with understanding reveal helplessness or is that appellation reserved for others of your fellow humans?

party on Garth!

As far as being unable to change tires with difficult nuts, or having to use extenders, I'm telling you guys, buy a cross wrench. The tire tools that come with cars are not only generally garbage, I've seen them fall apart in use, but having a lever in only one direction makes it far harder to remove tough bolts.
With a cross wrench, you can have a hand pushing and one pulling, with your body centered around the work. It's much more efficient and the same person can apply a lot more force, and it's safer too.

Besides, cross wrenches have 4 sizes so you can help with other people's tires, and also change the tires on a trailer if you're pulling one.
*sigh*

*sigh*

A&S'ers own car jacks and cross wrenches?

No wonder motorists use locking wheel nuts.

-Kurt

As a single female who drives a lot to out of the way places, I am glad my late husband taught me how to change a flat. I try to tell all my girlfriends to learn the skill, but they are waaaay tooo delicate and girly and will wait for AAA/tow truck four 2 hours. Me I can change it and be on my way, although I will stop at my local shop to make sure its on tight. Bike flats same thing.

I don't remember ever teaching a person to change a tire when I was a mechanic. I'm sure I would have if someone had asked. Good way to sell pumps, if nothing else.

The first time I ever had a car flat tire, my then-boyfriend, who was, among other things, a "car guy," sat down on the curb and said "Okay, I'm going to tell you how to do this, step by step, and watch, but you're going to do it." (Fortunately, my car was in the apartment complex parking lot -- we were on our way to go out somewhere, and discovered the flat when we got to my car.)

I'm a very small woman, but since then, I have changed 3 other flat car tires on my own, on that same car and a different one, without incident or too much difficulty (and, speaking of cross wrenches, on one occasion, the only way I could break the final lug nut loose was to stand on one of the wrench bars and bounce lightly, while holding onto the car roof. Probably not the recommended method, but it worked. :D Oh, and yeah, as someone else pointed out -- the initial loosening, and final tightening, of the lug nuts should always be done when the car is *off* the jack -- I wouldn't have been bouncing around on the wrench otherwise!!)

When I first started biking, the first thing I taught myself to do was to change my own tires. Flats happen *way* more often on bikes than on cars, and since I ride alone most of the time, it just seemed stupid to have to call someone (assuming I have cell coverage -- some of the places I ride, it's spotty) and then wait around for them to get there to perform an easy 10-minute task to get me rolling again.

http://www.slowbikemiami.com/my-first-flat-tire/

How helpless can one get?

-Kurt

One might ask the same of you

Some shops teach.Most shops in my area teach. People are likely to pick up a few items when they come in for a class (tools, snacks, tubes, patch kits, etc.). I used to work for a shop right next to a rail-to-trail and we would repair tubes for free (lots of punctures due to thorns and sharp rock on the side of the trail). The profit made on patching a tube or installing a new one was minimal when compared to the goodwill / return customers. If someone wanted to fix their own tire we'd let them use our stand, pump, & levers.

Where can you teach the most?

-Kurt

Move to Boston, then each spring you can be an instructor at the Appalachian Mountain Club's annual Bike Repair Workshop. We teach "basic bike", maintenance, brakes and derailleurs, and flat tire repair. This year we had a handful of Boston bicycle cops in attendance. It's fun!

See you next April.

Speedo

How to change a bike tire.
1. Open rear pannier. Take out bike jack.
2. Jack up bike after making sure the emergency brake is set, unless it's a fixie. To be safe, put a rock under the wheel not being repaired. Also helps to have a good kickstand.
3. Take out spare wheel from rear pannier. Undo quick release skewer on affected wheel. Rear wheels are trickier because of the bike chain. Make sure you have both a front and rear spare wheel in case either gets flatted.
4. Take off flatted wheel, exchange it with proper spare, tighten skewer, lower bike jack, toss away the rock, and put everything back in the rear pannier.
5. Take flat to bike shop so they can change out the tube and/or tire.

No so difficult, really. :)
There was a guy commuting in the winter with two wheels bungee corded to his back rack just for flats. I thought he was crazy until one night I nearly froze my hands fixing a flat.