General Cycling Discussion - why I pay cash at the LBS

1. the owner really appreciates not losing 1-3% of each sale to the credit-card companies
2. forces me to give myself a budget, so I'm less likely to blow extra $ on stuff I don't need
3. wife can't track my bike spending

1) I don't give much thought to what the LBS does, I go for the price that best suits me. It's nice not having to depend on the shops for overpriced parts and service!:D

2) I don't spend money on stuff I don't need. A nice smooth running bike is enough.

3) Wife rides too and encourages me to buy bike stuff :thumb:

1. the owner really appreciates not losing 1-3% of each sale to the credit-card companies
Usually try to pay cash with any local store or service - a small effort to keep more $ in our local economy


2. forces me to give myself a budget, so I'm less likely to blow extra $ on stuff I don't need
Have been good at resisting impulses

3. wife can't track my bike spending
My partner and I are pretty open about our respective expenses & we each have our fiscal weaknesses.

1. the owner really appreciates not losing 1-3% of each sale to the credit-card companies

I buy wherever I find the best deals ... if my spending supports the local economy, fine. If it doesn't, then it is supporting the global economy. It's all good.


2. forces me to give myself a budget, so I'm less likely to blow extra $ on stuff I don't need

I know what I want, and buy it.


3. wife can't track my bike spending

My husband and I both cycle. If I go to a bicycle shop, he's there too. If you have to hide purchases from your wife, you might want to have a deeper look at your relationship. It doesn't sound too good.

As a former small business owner we appreciated cash and debit cards, that 3%(and in some cases more) can add up, and in cases like American Express it takes 15 days for the money to hit your account. I always check with one of my LBS's first for things. In some cases I know it isn't available I will order it from somewhere else. I saw a study somewhere that of the money spent at local owned businesses 78% goes right back into the local community, money spent at big box stores ~48%, money spent over the internet little to nothing.

I have a bicycle budget that is part of the general budget we do every year, as long as I stay within my budget, or sell some of my things no problem spending on bike stuff. Right now I am saving for a Brompton, when the time comes I will go buy it.

Aaron :)

1. the owner really appreciates not losing 1-3% of each sale to the credit-card companies
When the merchant is willing to give a discount for cash/debit card purchases I will appreciate him.

I really appreciate the 1.25% rebate I get on every purchase I make with my credit card (2% on supermarket purchases, 5% on gasoline purchases are additional rebates).

3. wife can't track my bike spending


I feel your pain....

1. the owner really appreciates not losing 1-3% of each sale to the credit-card companies

I also appreciate not giving fees to banks for doing nothing. They're leeches on productive society. So F-- them.


2. forces me to give myself a budget, so I'm less likely to blow extra $ on stuff I don't needThe credit card providers know that people spend more with plastic. They refer to this overspending as simply "spend." They expend a fair amount of effort to measure and maximize "spend."


3. wife can't track my bike spendingMy wife and I have separate bank accounts. My wife knows I am not spending more than I can afford on bike stuff. I don't want anyone else to be able to track what I spend my money on.

As a former small business owner we appreciated cash and debit cards, that 3%(and in some cases more) can add up, and in cases like American Express it takes 15 days for the money to hit your account.


So does the extra 28% we pay at the LBS!;)

Conti GP 4000 online for $45 (free shiiping) , at the shop, $62....atleast!:eek: (prices from a year ago last time I compared)

As a former small business owner we appreciated cash and debit cards, that 3%(and in some cases more) can add up, and in cases like American Express it takes 15 days for the money to hit your account. ....Aaron :)

Like others here, I buy where I can get the best deal. However, cash is always my preferred method of payment for precisely the reason that Aaron stated. Small business owners love cash and the customer with lots of it always gets the best service.

When the merchant is willing to give a discount for cash/debit card purchases I will appreciate him.

I really appreciate the 1.25% rebate I get on every purchase I make with my credit card (2% on supermarket purchases, 5% on gasoline purchases are additional rebates).

Service agreements with the card providers try to make it difficult for the merchant to offer the cash discount (just as they've done away with the minimum purchase requirement). And of course, rebates and other promotions are there to give you incentive to spend more, racking up more fees for the servicers. Those programs wouldn't exist if they didn't add to the banks' bottom line. And of course, if you carry a balance, the interest will erode your savings quickly.

3. wife can't track my bike spending

What? You hide what you spend in the LBS from your wife? Who's in charge???




Yeah, same here. ;)

I normally go to the place with the best price for parts. I can't stand to pay the high price for maintenance so I try to do all my own. I have had some owners say that they can't compete with internet prices and won't try, while others will try.

Budget? this isn't a hobby its an addiction, there's no stinking budget!

My wife is worn down on this already, I have 9 bikes and it doesn't make sense to hide things. She likes shoes and I like bikes, at least I'm at home, sober, don't kick the dog and mow the lawn.

Now anyone know how to hide a BMW M3 from the wife, I could start parking that a few blocks from the house.

I normally go to the place with the best price for parts. I can't stand to pay the high price for maintenance so I try to do all my own. I have had some owners say that they can't compete with internet prices and won't try, while others will try.

Budget? this isn't a hobby its an addiction, there's no stinking budget!

My wife is worn down on this already, I have 9 bikes and it doesn't make sense to hide things. She likes shoes and I like bikes, at least I'm at home, sober, don't kick the dog and mow the lawn.

I try to use my LBS as much as possible. It's the least I can do, because they've been very good to me. I acquired two bikes through tips from them, and one bike free from them, plus they let me use their tools and stuff for quick jobs. I trued the wheel on my commuter on their stand Friday 10 minutes before they closed. I know there are cheaper sources for some parts, but if I'm buying somehting new I buy it from them if I can. I do a lot of my own maintenance, but they help out there a lot. They've shown me the ins and outs of a lot of maintenance tasks. If they show me how to change out a freewheel, I have no problem buying a freewheel tool from them.

I have six bikes put together, three more in pieces, a project bike that is too small for me, and two parts bikes. My wife's getting worn down too. At this point it's partly the cost, but the other part that bothers her a bit about the cycling thing is that I have remodeling projects around the house that aren't getting done.

3. wife can't track my bike spending

How do you hide a brand new bicycle from her? Does she not live in the house?





Now anyone know how to hide a BMW M3 from the wife, I could start parking that a few blocks from the house.

M3s are fairly common and doesn't look all that different from any other bimmer, just remove the badges and disguise is as regular 3-series. ;)
Now if you have a Boxster... then it's tough to tell her its just a VW Beetle. heh!

I paid for my bike using cash because

1) I don't have a credit card
2) They said they would have to wait for a cheque to clear before giving me the bike
3) To pay by debit card I would have had to take several hundred pounds from the building society and pay it into the bank where my debit card is.

THERE IT IS! hahahaha

1) I don't give much thought to what the LBS does, I go for the price that best suits me. It's nice not having to depend on the shops for overpriced parts and service!:D

2) I don't spend money on stuff I don't need. A nice smooth running bike is enough.

3) Wife rides too and encourages me to buy bike stuff :thumb:

Where can I find one of these ?

Now anyone know how to hide a BMW M3 from the wife, I could start parking that a few blocks from the house.

"Joe, from work, wants me to keep an eye on it for him and drive it while he's out of town on business in Malaysia. He'll only be gone a week."

"Joe's car? Oh, the company extended him over there for a month."

"The car? Oh, George volunteered to fill a temp position while he's in Singapore. I don't know when he'll be back."
"Joe? Malaysia? ... uh, uh, yeah; I meant Joe! Uh, he transfered to Singapore ... uh, yeah! That's it!"

1. the owner really appreciates not losing 1-3% of each sale to the credit-card companies
It's not my job to finance the store owner's inventory. He should be including the cost of his financing in the price. If he is, and I pay cash, I'm overpaying him.

How credit cards work:
The store pays a fee in order to get cash (almost) on the barrel. The customer doesn't pay until the end of his billing cycle, getting up to a month of financing without any interest charge. For people who have good credit, the credit card company is collecting the "standard" rate for the financing from the retailer, though the buyer's creditworthiness warrants a lower rate. That's why the credit card company is willing to give rebates to customers with good credit (it's basically the difference between the short-term lending rate for a bad credit and a good credit). I have no problem with the fact that the benefit of my three decades of financial responsibility inures to me, and not to a retailer.

Before credit cards were widespread, many (or most) retailers extended credit on their own to buyers. Some still do, often in the form of a company credit card.


2. forces me to give myself a budget, so I'm less likely to blow extra $ on stuff I don't need
I can use a piece of plastic to make green folding bits of paper spit out of an ATM and promptly hand to someone for a carbon-fiber doodad I don't need, or I can use a piece of plastic to get a carbon-fiber doodad I don't need without fooling with the bits of paper. I don't find that the choice of ritual has much of a differential effect.


3. wife can't track my bike spending
I suppose that's the same reason "escorts" accept cash only. Or so I have been told.

they aren't all cash only ... just sayin'

Where can I find one of these ?

California, Man!:D

California, Man!:D

Ok, that's it. I'm staying single. Cycling wives or no, its not worth a trip to California!

Also, this thread reminds me of this.
149342

I'll buy new tools at the LBS, and they do all my wheel truing. That's where it ends. The markup on tires alone is a reason.

It's not my job to finance the store owner's inventory. He should be including the cost of his financing in the price. If he is, and I pay cash, I'm overpaying him.

.......I have no problem with the fact that the benefit of my three decades of financial responsibility inures to me, and not to a retailer.

Not sure what your getting at here. VISA benefits from credit card transactions since they are getting a 3% kickback from the retailer. You're getting less than 30 days of credit in return. Someone with 3 decades of financial responsibility should be paying much less than 1% for that benefit so VISA is making big dollars from your transactions and the retailer is over paying. The cash customer gets a discount (possibly) or at the very least better service. Many would prefer that to a couple of weeks of credit which is why some prefer to pay cash. Of course if you had very bad credit or if your card has some sort of reward points, then that will shift your cost/benefit calculations.


I suppose that's the same reason "escorts" accept cash only. Or so I have been told.

Escorts accept major credit cards but prefer cash, just like most small businesses.

I also appreciate not giving fees to banks for doing nothing. They're leeches on productive society. So F-- them.

They set up a system that provides liquidity and convenience for customers. They have to maintain the network and front the money. Hardly nothing. They are entitled to some cut of the transaction, otherwise what is their incentive for maintaining the network?

... if your card has some sort of reward points, then that will shift your cost/benefit calculations.
Well, yeah: that reward was exactly the subject of that part of my earlier post!

I (like anyone who pays their monthly bill in full) don't pay anything for the short-term credit. I'm certainly not paying 1%. Indeed, I get value back from the credit card issuer. Depending on the card, it's in the form of actual money (a cash rebate) or some type of reward points (e.g. miles).

The retailer pays for getting money right after sale, rather than later, when I pay it. There's an extension of credit there that someone (the retailer) has to pay for. In the old days, it was common for retailers to allow customers to open accounts with similar terms: customer runs up charges, then pays a bill (with no finance charge) once a month. Nowadays, most retailers prefer to have banks extend credit and get paid earlier - and also to get out of the not-inconsiderable task of processing the bills and collections. There are some that don't finance with banks, but still use Visa (or Master Card) to process transactions for them, by issuing a store credit card with a Visa logo on it. There are a few that dispense with the credit card companies altogether, and both finance and process their own payments (I believe Target does this).

The retailer doesn't actually pay Visa: it pays its own bank, with whom it has a merchant agreement. Some of this money winds up in the hands of Visa, to compensate it for the processing function, and some winds up in the hands of my bank, or whoever issued me the card. Just to further complicate things, often the ultimate source of the financing isn't the bank itself, but someone who buys credit card receivables, which are often securitized.

A retailer of any size isn't paying 3%, but more like half that. On the other hand, a lot of LBSs are probably pretty small, so they may be paying the bigger fees. Back on the first hand, in the pre-credit-card world, if a tiny retailer extended store credit, the processing cost of hiring employees to handle billing and collection - as a percentage of those tiny sales - probably made 3% look like a bargain. Which is presumably among the reasons smaller retailers were less likely to offer store credit ... something they are still perfectly free to do, by simply not taking credit cards.

Visa and the other credit card companies charge for processing, at a rate that - due to obvious economies of scale - is economic for all involved, even after Visa pockets a profit, compared to the cost of decentralized processing in the back offices of tens of thousands of retailers, or even hundreds of banks.

The banks charge for the cost of credit, which is a factor of both the time value of money (pretty miniscule lately) and the credit risk. The banks charge the retailers for a sort of "standard" credit risk of the typical customer. In the case of a lower-risk customer, this represents a bit of an overpayment, because a bank would extend credit at a lower rate to these people. The bank is happy to lure these customers by offering rebates (or other valuable incentives). The bank makes a little less in fees, net of the rebates, but that's more than made up for in the reduced losses on defaults. As a result, at the end of the day, it's the customer who gets the benefit of his relatively better credit.

I'll buy new tools at the LBS, and they do all my wheel truing. That's where it ends. The markup on tires alone is a reason.

I'm with you. I can do most of the stuff myself & I can order my parts through Jenson or Nashbar + shipping & claim the taxes and still come out ahead. It isnt even close. The only other exceptions are things like bar tape and quick fix parts. Anything > $25 is mail order.

They have to maintain the network and front the money. Hardly nothing.
A much more pithy way of stating what I was getting at much more laboriously.

In addition to the free short-term credit and rebates, other advantages of using a credit card: the convenience of not carrying cash (or losing it), helpful (or not so helpful, depending on spousal attitudes) records, and - sometimes a significant one - a lot of leverage if things go astray, thanks to chargebacks. Oh yeah: and I suppose there's something to be said for knowing that your local merchant is actually paying sales taxes, instead of collecting them from you and pocketing them. If someone seems highly motivated to take folding money in a medium-to-biggish transaction, I tend to suspect there's some sales, and possibly income, tax shenanigans going on.

. Oh yeah: and I suppose there's something to be said for knowing that your local merchant is actually paying sales taxes, instead of collecting them from you and pocketing them. If someone seems highly motivated to take folding money in a medium-to-biggish transaction, I tend to suspect there's some sales, and possibly income, tax shenanigans going on.

I like the way you think...

It would be great karma if some of us end up forced to run a bike shop to feed our families.

It would be great karma if some of y'all end up forced to run a bike shop.

Well, it may be a tough business to run but you can't deny that some bike shops mark up their prices by quite a lot... I put myself the consumer before anybody the business man... hobbies are just that, when they become too expensive to have then what? and as for any business not paying taxes, how can you sympathize with that? Can you get paid in cash for some of your income and hide that from taxation?

Also, this thread reminds me of this.
149342


holy crap! It's May already, isn't it!

1. I don't pay cash, the LBS factors in credit card transactions into their product prices.

2. My bicycling budget is fairly substantial, and I very seldom exceed it.

3. The wife cannot and doesn't care to track my cycling purchases, we have three
three accounts, her's, mine, and the household's. We each have an agreed
dollar amount going towards the household account each month, and our
remaining monthly income we can spend/save as we like.

4. With a credit card, I can track my purchases when, where, and whom if I chose to do so.

Well, yeah: that reward was exactly the subject of that part of my earlier post!

I (like anyone who pays their monthly bill in full) don't pay anything for the short-term credit. I'm certainly not paying 1%. Indeed, I get value back from the credit card issuer. Depending on the card, it's in the form of actual money (a cash rebate) or some type of reward points (e.g. miles)......

I still don't understand what you're getting at here. It's true that credit card customers do get short term credit and (possibly) some reward points. On the other hand, cash customers get discounts (often) and better service (sometimes). It's quite simple and it's up to the customer which one he prefers. In most cases I prefer the benefits from being a cash customer.

I'm with you. I can do most of the stuff myself & I can order my parts through Jenson or Nashbar + shipping & claim the taxes and still come out ahead. It isnt even close. The only other exceptions are things like bar tape and quick fix parts. Anything > $25 is mail order.

Exactly. I'll buy small stuff @ the LBS. Tools, bar tape, tubes, rim strips, pinch bolts/bearings etc.

However I won't pay $47 for an Armadillo tire when I can get Vittoria Randonneur Pros for $25 during an online sale.

I came by 4 bike shops on the way home looking for WTB Laser series saddle: none. I don't remember last time any bike shop actually had something I was looking for other than tubes or patch kits.

Obviously, there are different kinds of bike shop. I use the one that's short on inventory, but tops on price and service. They have to order almost everything I think I need. Often takes longer than internet and considering internet price + shipping to local price + tax, the lbs is almost always somewhat cheaper. I pay cash or check.

It's my understanding that even though commercial accounts are prohibited from charging extra for credit purchases, they are not prohibited from allowing cash discounts--as long as the discount rate is equal to the card fee, and the cash price is not openly advertised.

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That said, I've heard of very few places that offer cash discounts.
About the ONLY places that ALWAYS offer cash discounts are coin shops or jewelers that deal in precious metal bullion. The margins they buy and sell on are very competitive and nobody will accept a hidden 3% cut.
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