General Cycling Discussion - Did the store lie about where my bike was made?

I just brought home a new Devinci Stockholm, which is an entry level performance hybrid. I bought it because the bike store said it was Made in Canada (both the owner and another employee, on two separate occasions said this). Normally I don't let country of origin decide what I buy, but in this case I equally liked the Devinci and another bike from a different store, so I decided to support a company that manufactures in my own country and got the Devinci.

When I got home, I looked underneath the cranks to read the serial number and I found a sticker beside it that said "Made in Vietnam", which is disappointing.

What I am wondering about is whether the bike store actually lied to me or if they didn't know either. The bike store writes down the serial number on their invoices, so someone in the store had to have seen the "Made in Vietnam" sticker. And since they are a Devinci dealer, they must have seen it on other Devinci's, unless mine is the first "Made in Vietnam" unit to pass through. Both the owner and an employee told me that it was Made in Canada, on two different days.

So either the store lied, they didn't know, or that sticker is wrong. Unfortunately I can't find any "Made in Canada" markings on the bike.

Not sure what I should do about it. Go back to the store and ask them why they said what they said? I don't know what that will accomplish, I still like the bike, I just feel a bit deceived. Should I call Devinci and ask them when they started making bikes in Vietnam instead of Canada?

Note that I am not in any way implying anything about the quality of products made in other countries; I just based this particular purchasing decision on the country of origin because I couldn't decide any other way.

With the exception of mostly custom frames and high-end frames, most frames today seem to come from a few factories in Taiwan and China. I've also seen some from India, so Vietnam doesn't really surprise me. My understanding is that the facilities in Taiwan and China have been producing pretty high quality frames from aluminum and carbon fiber, respectively, for several years now. I don't know anything about the general quality coming out of India or, in your case, Vietnam.

I believe Rocky Mountain and Marioni may fabricate frames in your country, but it's hard to say if that would include hybrids (due to their generally lower price point). Regardless, if it's bugging you, ask the shop owner to explain himself. Maybe he's never seen the big "Made in Vietnam" stamp on the boxes, he's out of the loop, or he knew you were using country of origin as the deciding factor and just wanted to sell a bike.

My frame was made in Taiwan. But the bike was built in my garage.

It's possible the frame was fabricated in Vietnam (and most of the other parts were fabricated in China, Japan, Taiwan, etc.), but it was assembled in Canada.

From what I've read, some of the US companies started producing in the US, still make some high-end frames here, and have gradually shifted regular bikes to overseas production. I expect something like this has gone on at Devinci as well.

I don't see anything on their website that says where they are produced. I do find a statement in their history that "The reputation of Devinci bikes was spread by word of mouth, by cyclists who were satisfied and proud to own a Canadian-made bike.", which certainly leaves the impression that they build bikes there.


I would guess that the bike shop guys were just assuming where these were made and hadn't really paid attention. As to what to do about, I don't know.

There have also been issues in the past where a frame would be made in, say, Turkey, then the bike would be painted, assembled and all in, say, the Netherlands. If enough work was done in the assembly place, the bike would still be marked as made there, rather than Turkey. But the issue in that case wasn't what the bike shop guys said, it was an issue of how the bikes were labeled.

Devinci is actually a company that originated in Quebec and that is probably why the store thought that its products were Canadian. I'd second desertdork's post. :)

Actually they do make alot of their own frames in Quebec. The high end tricked out ones, MTB's are there forte. The one you have is assembled in Quebec. Frame could be made anywhere. Unfortunately with our laws all they have to do is meet certain federal requirements and they can say made in Canada. Check the food store shelves and you will see same misleading stuff everyday. I met their young rep. last year at a LBS i frequent. Very nice folks and definitely pro Canadian.
There web site used to show the workings of there shop,equipment and all. They are very well equipped.

Go back and find out exactly what is going on with the shop. Get the staff to explain themselves. There is a major misrepresentation here and someone is profiting from it...

They are just ignorant.

I would say just get over it,time will heal your frustration, riding your new bike can accomplish that too.My bike was made in China and i don't really mind bcz if it was truely made in the USA, i would have to pay a lot more, just ride the new bike and enjoy it.

Let's make some assumptions. The frame is made in Vietnam. Now lets imagine the brakes and shifters were made in Japan, the cables and handlebar in China, and other components somewhere else. Now everything is shipped to Canada and assembled there. Where was the bike made? That's what you run into today when you try to determine the country where something is made.

Let's make some assumptions. The frame is made in Vietnam. Now lets imagine the brakes and shifters were made in Japan, the cables and handlebar in China, and other components somewhere else. Now everything is shipped to Canada and assembled there. Where was the bike made? That's what you run into today when you try to determine the country where something is made.

Exactly, and you can't get around it anymore.

I think everyone has made good points. I'm not upset that the frame isn't Made in Canada, though. I'm just disappointed because that's what I expected and made my final decision upon and I don't know if I've been duped. For what it's worth, I had a Norco from 3 years ago that was cheaper and said "Made in Canada", but from what you guys are telling me about how that could simply mean assembly instead of fabrication, maybe it didn't mean anything either. For the Norco I didn't choose it based on where it was made, I was looking for a low cost bike to replace my aging Walmart special.

I guess the real question is whether I should give the store the benefit of the doubt. When I went there the staff were helpful and patient with all my questions and they have a good selection of stuff that I would like to buy. But they made it a selling point that the bike was manufactured here and I didn't doubt them. So if they were in any way being intentionally dishonest, then I have to go to another store.

There is another LBS I normally go to but I didn't like any of the bikes there (which is why I expanded my search to all the others in the area). The staff aren't as patient with questions and their selection isn't as good but they haven't said anything that wasn't true either. Still, I usually always go back to the same store where I bought the bike for everything related to that bike, so I don't know if I should break that habit this time.

Steve0257 has the best point(s). Manufactures in USA and Canada import their components. Read up on Country of Origin rules. For USA, it is value that determines that and usually the frame dictates that. Someone mention profiting by this, everyone is. Manufactures produce cheaper, you get bikes cheaper and the LBS gets business. Look in the end you supported a Canadian company which be similar to me if I purchased a Trek or Specialized bike. I think Trek and Cannondale are the only manufactures still making frames in the USA for their very high end frames. My Specialized bikes are all imported.

Well, the rules can be written to allow manufacture to be claimed in different ways, but the bike shop guys should be telling you the same thing the sticker does. They certainly don't know more about import laws than the manufacturer does. They were either ignorant, or intentionally misled you. I would guess the former.

I'm not upset that the frame isn't Made in Canada, though. I'm just disappointed because that's what I expected and made my final decision upon and I don't know if I've been duped.


What exactly do you want them to do about the misrepresentation?

- Mark

I would assume by the owners/sales person that the bike is assembled in Canada. Did they mislead you? Maybe depending on where you draw the ethical lines. Almost everything is made in Asia these days, and unless a customer can afford a frame in the $2,000+ range we all benefit from it. I would have loved to have bought a Canadian frame, and still may one day. I would believe a sales rep might not know where their frames are built if it was their first week on the job but I doubt there is a shop owner anywhere that doesn’t know that the vast majority of frames are made in Asia, and have been for most of their adult lives.

These are some builders I found who still weld or lay-up their frames in Canada:

Guru
Naked Bicycle Designs
True North
Dekerf
Cove Bikes
Broadie (only one or two of the top line steel frames)

Rocky Mountain never answered my question so I don't know. If they do, it's only their top end frames as well. For what it's worth they were bought by an Asian company some years back.

Marinoni use an exclusive frame builder in Asia (Taiwan I believe) for their carbon. I'm not sure about their other materials.

This is probably not an exhaustive list of Canadian builders, but aside from the few Guru dealers you won't find many of these frames in your LBS. So if you're in a LBS and you are wondering if the frame is imported and they are not obviously welding in the back room, you can safely assume it's imported from somewhere and if the frame isn't dripping euro parts and the bike costs less than $6,000 that somewhere is asia.

What exactly do you want them to do about the misrepresentation?


Nothing. It's just that if they were lying to me, then I'd feel stupid for falling for it. Anyway, if I have issues with my bike I need to take it back to that store, so I don't want to sour the relationship just yet.

I would have preferred the store to be upfront that "Made in Canada" means assembled here. I still would have gotten the bike and I would have bought more things from them. Now, I am less likely to buy from them again and more likely to tell others not to go there.


I would assume by the owners/sales person that the bike is assembled in Canada. Did they mislead you? Maybe depending on where you draw the ethical lines. Almost everything is made in Asia these days, and unless a customer can afford a frame in the $2,000+ range we all benefit from it. I would have loved to have bought a Canadian frame, and still may one day. I would believe a sales rep might not know where their frames are built if it was their first week on the job but I doubt there is a shop owner anywhere that doesn’t know that the vast majority of frames are made in Asia, and have been for most of their adult lives.


Well, the sales rep said that the bike is made by a Canadian company and was actually Made in Canada. When I talked to the owner the next day, he said the same thing. They didn't distinguish between assembly and fabrication. I've never had another bike store list "Canadian-made" as a feature before, even for Canadian brands like Brodie and Norco. Like I said before, my 3 year old Norco actually was stamped "Made in Canada", while the Brodies I looked at recently and this Devinci don't.

So what you're saying is that unless the frame is worth more than $2000 that they aren't fabricated in Canada? That's good to know in case any one else tries to pass something off as being fabricated here.

I suppose if the bike is assembled here then at least part of the manufacturing process is supporting the Canadian economy. I'm not against globalization but I do think that it would be nice to buy stuff made in your own country.

It would be nice but I don't think you should feel taken or anything like that. When I bought my Ridley frame, I knew it wasn't fabricated in Belgium. It's just they way things are done these days. I would say there is a little bit of deception in order to be competitive in the bicycle market. Not too many bicycle companies are eager to slap "Made in India" stickers on their frames if their competitor isn't doing it. If you really want something Made in Canada than you'd probably have to go custom or really top of the line. It's gonna cost you though.

I believe Rocky Mountain and Marioni may fabricate frames in your country, but it's hard to say if that would include hybrids (due to their generally lower price point).

Rocky Mountain no longer fabricates frames in Canada (according to local LBS). I've got an '08 Sherpa, and it's the last year it was made here. There are some smaller companies that still make frames here - Steelwool (http://steelwoolbicycles.ca/) makes some nice ones (they have a touring frame and fork for about $700). It is really cool to have a domestic frame, but I don't fool myself - the components are not similarly made here.

I have an Opus, it's advertised as a Canadian brand, but the LBS didn't hide the fact that "Made in Canada" really means "Assembled in Canada from all over." For $600, I was not surprised.

There are some smaller companies that still make frames here - Steelwool (http://steelwoolbicycles.ca/) makes some nice ones (they have a touring frame and fork for about $700).
Regrettably, the $700 frame is made in Taiwan according to their FAQ. Only the custom frames are made here, wonder how much they are?

Regrettably, the $700 frame is made in Taiwan according to their FAQ. Only the custom frames are made here, wonder how much they are?

Augh, didn't do my homework and got burned. I was wondering why $700 seemed too good to be true for a Canadian frame.

I imagine you know whether you can afford it or not just by the fact that the price isn't listed. Like the super-upscale hotels.

Now, I am less likely to buy from them again and more likely to tell others not to go there.



You will stop going to a LBS that has better service, friendly people and treat you with respect and go to a shop that the staff isn't patient and don't have a good selection?

Service is my highest priority. I have a LBS that is closer to my house and I personally know the owner for over 20 years but the mechanic won't talk to me even if I ask him a direct question. I will not have any service done at that shop, and I don't visit that shop very often since there are other shops that want my business.

I think that they probably assumed Canadian company so Canadian product.

Its like here, I have some friends that always got on my case because I didn't own american cars. Where are these cars made? All over the world but who gets the big profit the dealer and the car company. Most of the money stays here and all of the service money stays here.

Same with your bike, who make the big profit the dealer and the Canadian company. Where will all the service be done? at home or Canada, probably.

If you are trying to keep canadians employed, I doubt that any of the components are made there either. But they may be assembling them there.

Now, I am less likely to buy from them again and more likely to tell others not to go there.



You will stop going to a LBS that has better service, friendly people and treat you with respect and go to a shop that the staff isn't patient and don't have a good selection?

Service is my highest priority. I have a LBS that is closer to my house and I personally know the owner for over 20 years but the mechanic won't talk to me even if I ask him a direct question. I will not have any service done at that shop, and I don't visit that shop very often since there are other shops that want my business.

I think that they probably assumed Canadian company so Canadian product.

Here I have some friends that always got on my case because I didn't own american cars. Where are these cars made? All over the world but who gets the big profit the dealer and the car company. Most of the money stays here and all of the service money stays here.

Same with your bike, who make the big profit the dealer and the Canadian company. Where will all the service be done? at home or Canada, probably.

If you are trying to keep canadians employed, I doubt that any of the components are made there either. But they may be assembling them there.

Wal Mart has some Oryx bikes that is MADE in USA. You want those? It weighs a ton and still uses quill stems.

Do you have a prejudice against Asian manufacturers? Vote with your wallet. Fact of the matter is, unless you can shell out $5000 for a Trek Madone, you are gonna get a frame made from asia. Like others have said, Taiwan and China has been fabricating frames for so long that their techniques are very advanced.

Do you drive a Chevy?

You will stop going to a LBS that has better service, friendly people and treat you with respect and go to a shop that the staff isn't patient and don't have a good selection?

I certainly would if the store was being intentionally dishonest to make a sale. I still don't know about the after sales service - it's easy for a store to be friendly and nice while trying to make a sale.


Wal Mart has some Oryx bikes that is MADE in USA. You want those? It weighs a ton and still uses quill stems.

Nope, I'd rather get the Triumph from Walmart that's "Made in Canada". To be honest, the 10 year old Walmart Triumph I have has served me longer than any other bike and I still use it to make my daily commutes.


Do you have a prejudice against Asian manufacturers? Vote with your wallet. Fact of the matter is, unless you can shell out $5000 for a Trek Madone, you are gonna get a frame made from asia. Like others have said, Taiwan and China has been fabricating frames for so long that their techniques are very advanced.

I don't have a prejudice against any manufacturer. Like I said, I used country of origin as a tie breaker because I liked two bikes equally. Since the bikes were from different stores, it means that I implicitly also used that information to choose this particular store.

Look, I just didn't know enough about the bike industry to realize that when the store keeps telling me it's "Made in Canada" as a selling point that it doesn't mean it's actually fabbed here. This is less about the bike not being made in Canada than about whether it's proper for the store to play loose and fast with the sales pitch.

Well I'm just going to talk to the store owner next time I'm in for adjustments or service and see what he says about it.

I certainly would if the store was being intentionally dishonest to make a sale. I still don't know about the after sales service - it's easy for a store to be friendly and nice while trying to make a sale.




You don't really know if it was intentionally dishonest to make a sale or just a honest mistake. If its that important to you then you should have done your research before buying, if you really got a problem take it back, pay the restocking fee and be done with it. Go to the LBS that treats you like crap since they will give you great service after you buy a bike from them.

You don't really know if it was intentionally dishonest to make a sale or just a honest mistake.

As a retailer, you should know the product you are selling. That is your responsibility. So spreading false information by dishonesty or ignorance are both wrong.


If its that important to you then you should have done your research before buying,

I researched almost everything that they said and it seemed to check out. I looked at Devinci's site which seemed to imply that it was "Canadian made", I searched every single bike forum about the company and not one post said it wasn't made in Canada. The only thing I didn't do was call Devinci myself and ask them.

Mea culpa on that last point, but I'm sorry if I thought that the various LBSes are trustworthy enough to take them at their word or that they know what they sell well enough to not be ignorant about them. It seems to me that you're saying it's OK for a store to spread misinformation and that it's actually the buyer's fault for trusting them.

Not every buyer has the resources or know-how to do a background check on every product they buy and every store they buy it from. I certainly don't have insider knowledge of the bike industry about where things are made and I don't know the different price brackets of bikes that well. You're saying that's a valid reason to lie to me. **** you.


if you really got a problem take it back, pay the restocking fee and be done with it.

If I decide to return it, I would demand a full refund. If they won't, then I have a number of steps I can pursue to get my money back.


Go to the LBS that treats you like crap since they will give you great service after you buy a bike from them.

The other LBS doesn't treat anyone like crap. They just don't pull out all the stops when making a sale. I would have gladly gone back if they had a bike that I liked. I'll still go back there for most of my acessories.

I guess you just love dishonest shops or ones in which everyone is ignorant about the products that they sell. Or maybe you run one and think that it's A-OK. More marks for you to dupe, right?

If it's OK for the LBS to be ignorant and dishonest, then let the Walmarts and online stores put them all out of business.

So what is the brand and model of the bike that the other LBS is selling? Just curious.
I personally think Devinci bikes are hot and the Stockholm is a wonderful bike.

So what is the brand and model of the bike that the other LBS is selling? Just curious.

Cannondale Quick 5. Same price, just as comfortable during the test ride. Made in Asia as the store told me when I asked, though apparently it's owned by a Canadian company now. The components aren't exactly the same but close enough for me. Tested the Brodie Dynamo at yet another LBS but it wasn't comfortable (I really wanted to like the Brodie), looked into the Kona Dew and Jamis Coda at two more stores but I was ignored at the Kona dealer and the Jamis dealer preferred to talk to a couple looking for two bikes, so I left as I was on a tight schedule.


I personally think Devinci bikes are hot and the Stockholm is a wonderful bike.

No doubt about that. As I've said, I like the bike but would have preferred the store to have been more honest. All they had to say was that it was a Canadian company that assembles here, just like every other sub $X bikes. And I probably would have bought it anyway because of the store's patience with me. Now, in spite of that effort, I trust them less.

I just brought home a new Devinci Stockholm, which is an entry level performance hybrid. I bought it because the bike store said it was Made in Canada (both the owner and another employee, on two separate occasions said this). Normally I don't let country of origin decide what I buy, but in this case I equally liked the Devinci and another bike from a different store, so I decided to support a company that manufactures in my own country and got the Devinci.

When I got home, I looked underneath the cranks to read the serial number and I found a sticker beside it that said "Made in Vietnam", which is disappointing.

What I am wondering about is whether the bike store actually lied to me or if they didn't know either. The bike store writes down the serial number on their invoices, so someone in the store had to have seen the "Made in Vietnam" sticker. And since they are a Devinci dealer, they must have seen it on other Devinci's, unless mine is the first "Made in Vietnam" unit to pass through. Both the owner and an employee told me that it was Made in Canada, on two different days.

So either the store lied, they didn't know, or that sticker is wrong. Unfortunately I can't find any "Made in Canada" markings on the bike.

Not sure what I should do about it. Go back to the store and ask them why they said what they said? I don't know what that will accomplish, I still like the bike, I just feel a bit deceived. Should I call Devinci and ask them when they started making bikes in Vietnam instead of Canada?

Note that I am not in any way implying anything about the quality of products made in other countries; I just based this particular purchasing decision on the country of origin because I couldn't decide any other way.

If they lied about one thing how can you trust them on any other thing? They have to put the bikes together so they knew where it was made. The point isn't one country over the other the point is what the sales person said. Start looking for another shop because if they lied about this they will lie about repairs and about replacing parts or servicing things as well. Yes most bike frames are made in Asia and most are quality equipment. But if you wanted SRAM and the sold you Shamino even if they are both good they still lied. Just my opinion but I wouldn't trust them again.

How did the bike store mislead you? They used a legally defined word that the manufacturer itself uses to represent their products. Even if they did know the frame/components werent manufactured in Canada the fact that it is assembled there by trained professionals and in a situation that *could* have tighter quality control (not to mention having to endure the rigors of shipping) is a selling point by itself. The shop could have been assuming you knew the low down on frame manufacturing, much like many of the people here do. If your immediate reaction is to assume the shop did something malicious you are going to invent evidence to support your bias. If the people seem genuinely nice, the inventory is varied and competitive priced and most importantly if the shop work is done compentently and for a fair price then I would choose the shop that you bought your bike from. Just my $.02

Cannondale Quick 5. Same price, just as comfortable during the test ride. Made in Asia as the store told me when I asked, though apparently it's owned by a Canadian company now. The components aren't exactly the same but close enough for me. Tested the Brodie Dynamo at yet another LBS but it wasn't comfortable (I really wanted to like the Brodie), looked into the Kona Dew and Jamis Coda at two more stores but I was ignored at the Kona dealer and the Jamis dealer preferred to talk to a couple looking for two bikes, so I left as I was on a tight schedule.

No doubt about that. As I've said, I like the bike but would have preferred the store to have been more honest. All they had to say was that it was a Canadian company that assembles here, just like every other sub $X bikes. And I probably would have bought it anyway because of the store's patience with me. Now, in spite of that effort, I trust them less.

Maybe you should just speak to the LBS owner. Instead of being confrontational, tell them that you are disappointed of your findings. Maybe they would feel so bad and give you free upgrades. Never know. Going in with guns-blazing doesn't bring positive resolution unless you want some sort of vengeance. But remember, you may need to go back to them for warranty work. So express your disappointment instead.
Kona Dew is a good bike too. Simple, basic and solid. I believe it is a good deal cheaper than the Devinci Stockholm.

BTW, Cannondale is owned by Dorel Industries which also owns Schwinn, GT, Mongoose and Sugoi. Along with Raleigh, they are the great bicycle supplier to the big box stores. See http://www.dorel.com/corporate_history.htm

OP bought a new bike from a bike shop for $700 and thought it was manufactured in North America? Like a second marriage, that sounds like a triumph of hope over experience.

I've resolved this situation with the store. I got a full refund. Not because I didn't like the bike, but because I don't believe the store deserves my money.


How did the bike store mislead you? They used a legally defined word that the manufacturer itself uses to represent their products.

The manufacturer was honest enough to include a "Made in Vietnam" sticker. If the bike could legally be called "Made In Canada", then the manufacturer would have affixed a label indicating this. They did not. Therefore, it cannot be legally considered to be "Made in Canada".


OP bought a new bike from a bike shop for $700 and thought it was manufactured in North America? Like a second marriage, that sounds like a triumph of hope over experience.

For god's sake, I had a $99 Walmart bike that was Made In Canada, under the legal definition.

I don't understand why so many people are being so assinine about this. So in your opinion it's OK for a store to lie to people and completely misrepresent the truth? I guess you're another one of those people that run a dishonest business and are just supporting a fellow liar.

Or is it because you're a damn snob? Anyone that won't buy a $10000 bike is just so beneath you that they deserve to be lied to.

Troll? :troll:

Joined in May. Posts a pointless complaint on May 9th, and when he realises it's not top news anymore and he's not getting the attention he wants two months later, he ressurects the post to stir things up again.

Troll? :troll:

Joined in May. Posts a pointless complaint on May 9th, and when he realises it's not top news anymore and he's not getting the attention he wants two months later, he ressurects the post to stir things up again.

You're on to something. All his BF posts reside in this one thread. :twitchy:

I have gotten away from my personal issue with Asian made bicycles. After all they use them by the millions to get around and are likely very skilled at making them. Of course I must pay attention to the materials used and visual quality of the product to make a sound decision. However it doesn't automatically mean they're good or bad simply because they make them in Asia.

And to the OP. DO YOU like the bike? That should contribute heavily to your course of action.

You Ask for information which is meant to be kept unknown.. All they want you to know is that it is likely made somewhere on Planet Earth.

Troll? :troll:

Joined in May. Posts a pointless complaint on May 9th, and when he realises it's not top news anymore and he's not getting the attention he wants two months later, he ressurects the post to stir things up again.


No, I replied again because I saw more posts from people that think I deserve to be lied to. In fact, I came here to ask about something else but decided to check out this old thread. When I read the last few responses, I just couldn't leave it alone. If people just stated "Yeah, bikes less than $X price aren't made here anymore" rather than defend a lying store by saying I deserve to be misled due to my ignorance, then I wouldn't care at all.

And what exactly do you think I am trolling for? I never said anything bad about the bike (so I'm not targeting the manufacturer), I never named the store (so I'm not trying to destroy their reputation) and I never tried to rile up anyone's emotions or post something outrageous to get a response (if anything, it's some of you who are trollling me).

The original complaint was not pointless. I wanted to gather some opinions as to whether the store likely lied to me or not. The more helpful posters have also given me information about the state of the industry. The unhelpful posters, such as yourself, for some reason, make posts that comes across as extremely assinine from my point of view.

Read my original post. I made it clear that I have no problem about bikes made in another country. I just wanted to know if the store lied to me or not. That is an honest question. I am responding now to specific posts that I don't agree with because yes, it is pissing me off the way some of you come across. Before you call me a troll, actually read what I posted before.


You're on to something. All his BF posts reside in this one thread. :twitchy:

So what? I registered to ask about this issue. I don't have many bike related questions normally. I came back originally to ask about something else but got distracted by the sheer snobbishness of some of the posts when I checked this thread again. Is there something in the rules here that say you can't post in only one thread?


I have gotten away from my personal issue with Asian made bicycles. After all they use them by the millions to get around and are likely very skilled at making them. Of course I must pay attention to the materials used and visual quality of the product to make a sound decision. However it doesn't automatically mean they're good or bad simply because they make them in Asia.

And to the OP. DO YOU like the bike? That should contribute heavily to your course of action.

As I said many times, I don't care about where it's made in general. It was just that for this one purchase, I couldn't decide otherwise, so I used the country of manufacture - which the store emphasized heavily - as my purchase decision. That was why it was important to determine if the store was a bunch of lying scumbags or not.

Yes, I liked the bike but I didn't keep it, because the store doesn't deserve my money.

I just get a kick out of the fact that the Stockholm was made in Vietnam and assembled in Canada.

Man, I'm feeling Hungary. I might go make myself a Turkey sandwich.

well if you ever think about buying a Toyota, Nissan, BMW or Mercedes check where they are made too (some ford and Chevies too)

It's possible the frame was fabricated in Vietnam (and most of the other parts were fabricated in China, Japan, Taiwan, etc.), but it was assembled in Canada.

Yep. That's likely it. Shipped as parts, then put together here, possibly even in the LBS.

No, I replied again because I saw more posts from people that think I deserve to be lied to. In fact, I came here to ask about something else but decided to check out this old thread. When I read the last few responses, I just couldn't leave it alone. If people just stated "Yeah, bikes less than $X price aren't made here anymore" rather than defend a lying store by saying I deserve to be misled due to my ignorance, then I wouldn't care at all.

And what exactly do you think I am trolling for? I never said anything bad about the bike (so I'm not targeting the manufacturer), I never named the store (so I'm not trying to destroy their reputation) and I never tried to rile up anyone's emotions or post something outrageous to get a response (if anything, it's some of you who are trollling me).

The original complaint was not pointless. I wanted to gather some opinions as to whether the store likely lied to me or not. The more helpful posters have also given me information about the state of the industry. The unhelpful posters, such as yourself, for some reason, make posts that comes across as extremely assinine from my point of view.

Read my original post. I made it clear that I have no problem about bikes made in another country. I just wanted to know if the store lied to me or not. That is an honest question. I am responding now to specific posts that I don't agree with because yes, it is pissing me off the way some of you come across. Before you call me a troll, actually read what I posted before.



So what? I registered to ask about this issue. I don't have many bike related questions normally. I came back originally to ask about something else but got distracted by the sheer snobbishness of some of the posts when I checked this thread again. Is there something in the rules here that say you can't post in only one thread?



As I said many times, I don't care about where it's made in general. It was just that for this one purchase, I couldn't decide otherwise, so I used the country of manufacture - which the store emphasized heavily - as my purchase decision. That was why it was important to determine if the store was a bunch of lying scumbags or not.

Yes, I liked the bike but I didn't keep it, because the store doesn't deserve my money.


boy..... I bet they are gonna hate that they lost you as a customer. You showed them. I can only imagine they are going to miss dealing with your issues.

I try to buy as much as possible from countries with good labor laws. The US, and of course Western Europe/Canada. But also Taiwan, South Korea, to a lesser extent Vietnam. I believe that a hardworking person deserves an opportunity to earn my business. But I won't stand for ordinary working people being abused when I have the option of buying from an ethical seller.

Anyways, Wal-Mart is famous for selling items where the <i>tag</i> was "Made in the USA" or whatever. Caveat Emptor.

It's pretty simple really. What does an average journeyman welder make in Canada? $57,000ish per year (http://www.wowjobs.ca/salary-journeyman+welder). If the store makes a 10% profit that leaves $630 on the table. The distributor is going to take their margin, being generous 25% takes another $157. So with $472 to play with how much are the components going to be? A Tiagra groupset if you bought them by the sea container might be around $150. Down to $222. Wheels $50: $172. Seat, seatpost, handlebars, stem, tires, cables, headset = $70. $102 left. Someone to assemble all this in Canada: $25. This leaves $77 for the frame. $30 of that will be materials. So with $43 left to pay the welder who make $28/hr ($28x35hrsx50weeks=57K). A shop would probably need to make at least $56 per hour to cover overhead and pay the welder. The Canadian welder would have to crank out a frame ever 45 minutes for the shop to break even.

This is just a ballpark estimate of the costs involved with likely a minimum of middlemen taking their cut. Likely, the margins are thinner for the LBS and the Welder. What I am illustrating is that it does not take much due diligence by anyone to determine what is meant by the "Made in Canada" sticker.

My (Canadian company) Kona Jake the Snake was $1400. Once I subtracted the retail prices of the 105 groupset and the Mavic wheels, the rest of the bike was pretty much free. Since I don't know any Canadian welders who work for free I can safely and correctly assume that it is made somewhere else.

Arguably the best frame builders are in Asia simply because they have been making the most frames for decades. The entire TdF podium rode asian frames (Specialized and Giant). The majority of the Protour ride frames made in Asia regardless of the decals.

90% of the world's quality bikes today are made in Far Eastern factories in Taiwan and China. Only boutique bikes and custom made bikes are still domestically produced.

Its a function of the marketplace. I don't bother much any more about where's its made.

If the frame is good quality, that's all that counts and for a long time all bike components have been imported.

Maybe they don't know, because the manufacturer does not want them to know.

Does it matter where the Frame was made?---Unless you are a 110% patriot that will only buy 100% home produced products--- I very much doubt it.

There used to be a frame builder I used in the UK that finally had to give up building as the "Cheap" imports were killing his business.

Couple of years later and I saw an advert for his frames in one of the Mags. He had joined the band wagon and was now getting his frames made in the Far East. His design- his spec on tubing- and his quality control when the frames got into the UK. The Eastern Frames were costing him half the price that he could make them for and the quality was just as high.

Does it matter where the Frame was made?---Unless you are a 110% patriot that will only buy 100% home produced products--- I very much doubt it.

There used to be a frame builder I used in the UK that finally had to give up building as the "Cheap" imports were killing his business.

Couple of years later and I saw an advert for his frames in one of the Mags. He had joined the band wagon and was now getting his frames made in the Far East. His design- his spec on tubing- and his quality control when the frames got into the UK. The Eastern Frames were costing him half the price that he could make them for and the quality was just as high.


Did the price go down on those frames or did he just pocket the money he made off the cheap labor?