Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Why aren't there more women randonneurs?

My husband has gotten into randonneuring, and after a couple years of listening to his ride stories, I'm about to get a bike and possibly work up to joining him on some brevets.

When I look at the registration/results lists from brevets though, I'm always struck by how few women there are (unless the Seattle Randonneurs are atypical). Some things I've read suggest that women may actually have an advantage in ultra-endurance events, and my husband always describes the people on brevets as a very welcoming. So, I'm curious what might be some reasons for the gender imbalance? (Though part of me thinks that it's because most women have better sense than to do something like a 1200k...)

Thoughts/experiences?

In the BC Randonneurs club, the Manitoba Randonneurs club, and over here in Victoria, Australia there are a fair number of women. When I cycled with the Manitoba Randonneurs it was about a 50/50 split between men and women. These clubs are welcoming to women.

However, when I cycled with the Alberta Randonneurs I was the only woman, and didn't feel particularly welcome. Many of the men in the Alberta Randonneurs look at brevets as races so they aren't too keen about having slower cyclists out there.

It depends a lot on the club.

But as for why there aren't more women in randonneuring ... randonneuring takes up a lot of time. If you've got a job and kids, and your evenings and weekends are spent shuttling the kids between ballet practice and soccer practice, you don't have time to go for a 27 hour bicycle ride, let alone do all the training required to build up to that.

Karena, what were you reasons for not getting into randonneuring earlier? Maybe you can extrapolate your comments into the wider female population.

But as for why there aren't more women in randonneuring ... randonneuring takes up a lot of time. If you've got a job and kids, and your evenings and weekends are spent shuttling the kids between ballet practice and soccer practice, you don't have time to go for a 27 hour bicycle ride, let alone do all the training required to build up to that.

Good point--when I was one of those kids whose mom was shuttling me around to ballet practice and violin lessons and such, I once added up the hours she spent driving me around and waiting to pick me up--it was easily around 20 hours a week.

I wonder--in clubs that are mostly men, do they perhaps self-perpetuate being unwelcoming to women (even if unconsciously)? I've seen male cyclists comment, only half-jokingly, about being passed by--horrors of all horrors--a *woman*. Perhaps some guys aren't used to women being able to do what they do, and don't take it well? (And before I get called out for sexist comments, I think it cuts both ways--I've seen groups of women be very unfriendly when a man "encroached" on what they considered "their territory"!)

Randonneuring is one of the few sporting pursuiits where women can participate on an equal footing with men (yacht racing is another). This is a point often missed. I couldn't care less if a woman of any standard finishes ahead of me on a randonnee, just so long as I finish within the time limit.

Also men's testosterone levels may drop somewhat after the age of 50 or 60, so their need to exude this particularly potent male hormone in an effort to be first across the line is less compelling. The average age of participation in PBP, for example, is in the upper range of the 40s.

Karena, what were you reasons for not getting into randonneuring earlier? Maybe you can extrapolate your comments into the wider female population.

To be clear, I technically haven't gotten into randonneuring or even bicycling at all yet! I finish up grad school in 4 weeks, and when I head home I'm getting a bike, and we'll see how it goes.

Two years I didn't even know that randonneuring existed. My husband had started bicycling, first just to commute, and then was pulled into doing longer and longer rides by some buddies, one of whom is a member of the Seattle Randonneurs. Watching the enjoyment and sense of accomplishment that he's gotten out of riding in general started getting me interested, and in the Pacific Northwest there is some amazing scenery to enjoy.

I will say that as a dancer and dance teacher I spend a lot of my day sweating and making extreme demands of my body, so cycling is not too much of a conceptual shift. From reading another thread on barriers to female cyclists, I think that perhaps a lot of women perhaps feel a societal pressure not to get sweaty and dirty that isn't there for men. They might be willing to go work out at the gym where they can shower and do their hair and make up before they emerge back into public, but would feel very uncomfortable going into a mini-mart or restaurant after riding 200k.

The local group here does have a fair number of women, so the problem is not universal.

I suspect that the idea of being on a bicycle by yourself in the middle of nowhere is on average more acceptable to men than to women. I haven't tried to conduct a poll to confirm that.

I suspect that if you have a lot of women in a local club, it's going to be a lot easier to get other women involved.

As far as I know, the local rando group here draws a fair number of people out of one of the regular bicycle clubs. If that club has a lot of active women, then you can expect that to carry through to the rando participation.

I don't fit into the normal club rider/racer/rando pattern that some people seem to expect. There are some of the local randonneurs that are friendly and encouraging anyway, while I get the impression some others would just as soon not have me around. I can imagine if you had a whole club like that second group, it would take a pretty thick-skinned individual to stick with it, male or female, if they didn't fit the mold.

I think StephenH has hit an important point. It is relatively unusual for large groups to stay together on long bike rides. It is an unusual rando event that attracts more than
20-30 riders. So you end up at the back end of nowhere at 3am with another 12-18hrs to go on the bike by yourself. With luck you might find a compatible group that is willing to
stay together through a 400k or longer ride but so many factors begin to pop up: hunger, fatigue need to sleep, different slump times that staying together can be
extremely difficult. 5 mile long hills also tend to do that as well. Read some of Machka's older posts to get the flavor of riding long rides. (See her website).

And to give you a little incentive read this: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Features/Endurance_sports_legend_Barbara_Warren_dies_after_Santa_Barbara_bike_accident__495.html
A truly formidable woman who would probably leave 96% of rando males in the dust . One obit mentions the twins doing a TWIN Ironman (swim some, bike 200, run 52mi).

I don't know why there aren't more women in SIR. It's a sport in which women might have an advantage, since it's not a race so max aerobic capacity really isn't an issue. Women are often light, have good lower body strength, good endurance, and good pain tolerance. I do hear the "why an earth would I do something like that to myself?" kind of talk from women. You know, the whole hair shirt, flagellation, chest beating thing that men are into. Were there female flagellates? And they don't call it The Dark Side of cycling for nothing. But women can be very strong minded. They had to kind of stuff a woman into the aid car last year. She wasn't about to quit.

I don't know why there aren't more women in SIR. It's a sport in which women might have an advantage, since it's not a race so max aerobic capacity really isn't an issue. Women are often light, have good lower body strength, good endurance, and good pain tolerance. I do hear the "why an earth would I do something like that to myself?" kind of talk from women. You know, the whole hair shirt, flagellation, chest beating thing that men are into. Were there female flagellates? And they don't call it The Dark Side of cycling for nothing. But women can be very strong minded. They had to kind of stuff a woman into the aid car last year. She wasn't about to quit.

Maybe women get their self-flagellation impulses taken care of with pointy-toe stilettos...

I'll admit that while I can see the appeal of a 200 or 300k, when I heard about PBP and read some ride reports, I thought it sounded like a pretty insane thing to do willingly, and definitely something that I was smart enough not to get caught up in. Of course, some people think that dancing on the tips of your toes in pointe shoes is a pretty insane thing to do willingly, but they are just silly :)

If I do get to the point of doing some rides with SIR, I will be interested to see what my perception of it is compared to my husband's.

...I'll admit that while I can see the appeal of a 200 or 300k, when I heard about PBP and read some ride reports, I thought it sounded like a pretty insane thing to do willingly, and definitely something that I was smart enough not to get caught up in...

A lot of guys have the same opinion of long distance rides, I'm not sure that's gender specific. ;)

I believe (generally) there are just more guys out cycling to begin with so therefore more doing long distances. Shephen's suggestion of women not wanting to be out in the middle of nowhere all by themselves is also an issue.

I would like to point out that riding by yourself is not something that's really ever required, but just something that is liable to happen from time to time. Some of the local women have husbands or the equivalent in the group, and that gives them a ready-made riding partner in a lot of cases. If they don't ride at the same speed, there's always a tandem, and I think we have at least three couples that ride tandems part of the time. Some of the local rando people have ridden together a LOT (as in 200k's every week and stuff), so they know each other a lot better than I know them, and they are used to riding in groups. If someone else rides more or less my speed, or is willing to slow down to my speed, it's great if we can stick together, but I'd feel awkward trying to intentionally arrange that- but it can be done.

That's a good point about the gender balance in cycling as a whole, as well as outside factors like the possibility of being out alone in the middle of the night.

If outside factors do keep women away from randonneuring in greater numbers than men are kept away, it seems a pity--as opposed to something like racing, where men will generally have a significant physiological advantage, randonneuring seems like something where there could be advantages to being a woman, and certainly where women can at least participate on a pretty equal level with the men. And the sense of accomplishment/empowerment after a brevet is something a lot of women could use in their lives.

Of course, I say all that from the comfort of my couch! (Though I know my husband is pretty astonished at what he's done on a bike, and I'm super proud of him). I'll have to post back after actually trying a brevet and see what I think about accomplishment, empowerment, riding alone in the middle of the night, and insane things to do with a perfectly good Saturday...

I talked to my dancer friend on the ride today. She said that, in her opinion, dancing and riding went pretty well together. As you say, dancers have great core strength and that's a huge help. She also said that cycling much easier than dancing, because your body only moves in one plane, instead of moving through space on several planes. But she also said that cycling does not help flexibility and you'll have to be careful to keep up with the work on your dancing fundamentals.

We had a lovely ride today, though the hills north of Snohomish, about 60 miles and 4000' of climbing, just Stoker and I, the dancer, and two other couples on tandems. When you get some miles and if you feel like it, PM me and I can point you toward some fun things.

For my #2 bike, which I call my rain bike, I went with an aluminum frame, carbon fork, and Ultegra components. You might think about a cyclocross bike, carbon fork, and Ultegra or similar level components. Quite a few year-round and rando riders use stuff like that in the PNW. Good for fenders and still light enough to climb well. Try Sammamish Valley Cycle: http://www.sammamishcycle.com/ Sort of SIR HQ for gear. They even have SIR mudflaps.

There is another factor that hasn't been touched on yet, and that is spousal pressure to not participate when that spouse has no interest in cycling, let alone randonneuring.

There was a female poster on another non-BF long-distance forum who was very good at randonneuring, but she hooked up with a non-cycling guy in a permanent relationship, and she basically disappeared from the scene through that spousal pressure. I believe there was almost an ultimatum situation.

Chauvinism is alive and well in the West, and it doesn't have to be within cycling ranks... in fact, the majority of it can be very strong outside cycling.

The fact, Karena, that you have your husband already riding and who has inspired you makes you the exception rather than the rule.

I do have to say that there are women who ride randonnees with their husbands' blessing and you won't see him anywhere. There is a woman here in Victoria who is a top-notch randonneuse, and she rides a lot (almost weekly) and usually with another guy who isn't her husband but also is an excellent randonneur. It all seems to work wonderfully for everyone involved.

I believe (generally) there are just more guys out cycling to begin with so therefore more doing long distances.

This most of all, I think. You're talking an extremely thin slice (randonneuring) of an already-very-skimpy pie (road cycling in general) in which women are already a very tiny part of the filling. :)

I think the time/childcare/housecare issue is probably a big one, too. Rowan already alluded to the average age of PBP riders; I wonder, if you did an age breakdown of regular U.S. rando riders, male and female both, whether you'd find mostly under-25 and over-40 (i.e. young kids likely not on the scene) as being the largest percentage.

There is another factor that hasn't been touched on yet, and that is spousal pressure to not participate when that spouse has no interest in cycling, let alone randonneuring.

I know it's a prevalent attitude, but I've never understood saying to a significant other "you're doing something you really enjoy--you need to stop it." I realize that both my husband and I are lucky to be in a relationship where we support the other's interests and goals--to the point where I'm going to grad school in Ohio (and am counting down the days to rejoining my husband in Seattle). But even before I started developing an interest in bicycling, I was really happy that he was getting so much out of it, even if it meant some time apart.

I'm about to get goopy about how great my husband is, so I'll stop now!

I talked to my dancer friend on the ride today. She said that, in her opinion, dancing and riding went pretty well together. As you say, dancers have great core strength and that's a huge help. She also said that cycling much easier than dancing, because your body only moves in one plane, instead of moving through space on several planes. But she also said that cycling does not help flexibility and you'll have to be careful to keep up with the work on your dancing fundamentals.

We had a lovely ride today, though the hills north of Snohomish, about 60 miles and 4000' of climbing, just Stoker and I, the dancer, and two other couples on tandems. When you get some miles and if you feel like it, PM me and I can point you toward some fun things.

For my #2 bike, which I call my rain bike, I went with an aluminum frame, carbon fork, and Ultegra components. You might think about a cyclocross bike, carbon fork, and Ultegra or similar level components. Quite a few year-round and rando riders use stuff like that in the PNW. Good for fenders and still light enough to climb well. Try Sammamish Valley Cycle: http://www.sammamishcycle.com/ Sort of SIR HQ for gear. They even have SIR mudflaps.

Thanks for talking to your friend! That's reassuring to hear from a dancer.

I'll see how this riding thing goes, and hope to take you up on the fun suggestions.

This most of all, I think. You're talking an extremely thin slice (randonneuring) of an already-very-skimpy pie (road cycling in general) in which women are already a very tiny part of the filling. :)


Good thing the filling is the best part of the pie :)

I'm about to get goopy about how great my husband is, so I'll stop now!

Just get him to join the forum here and tell us himself. We like mutual admiration societies here... because we're the only ones who understand why we do what we do!

I'm intrigued, but ...
* I don't want to find myself out in the middle of nowhere with bike mechanical issues (I am inept)
* I am a huge fan of clean indoor plumbing
* I am afraid of being out in the middle of nowhere running out of drinking water
* Sleep deprivation makes me more prone to seizures and other neuro issues
* Most riders having my slow speed level aren't interested in riding more than 20 miles
* Still working on improving my physical conditioning

I'm intrigued, but ...
* I don't want to find myself out in the middle of nowhere with bike mechanical issues (I am inept)
Not often a problem. One solution is a cell phone and the phone number of anyone back home. I haven't had mechanical issues, but have had my wife come fetch me on two or three occasions when things didn't go according to plan.
* I am a huge fan of clean indoor plumbing
On the Lone Star Randonneur routes, the controls are generally convenience stores around 30 miles apart, or if the controls are farther apart, there's usually stores you can stop at in between. The rest room facilities are usually on par with what you'll find at most other businesses. Meaning, unless you just refuse to use anything but your own bathroom, you're probably going to be okay.
* I am afraid of being out in the middle of nowhere running out of drinking water
Solution: Plan ahead. Rest assured, none of the rest of us want to be in that situation either. You will generally always know where the next water is. What you won't always know is how long it will take you to get there and how much you'll be drinking as you go.
* Sleep deprivation makes me more prone to seizures and other neuro issues.
Generally, a 200k ride will take 8-12 hours depending on your speed and fitness, so sleep deprivation shouldn't be an issue there. A 300k might take up to 18 hours or so, but that's still more or less normal waking hours for most people. Rides over that length may get into sleep deprivation, but if you're just starting, that's not a concern.
* Most riders having my slow speed level aren't interested in riding more than 20 miles
What exactly is your slow speed? LSR does have some slower riders, some in the middle, some that are fast. One challenge they've been working on for the slower riders is trying to get them all at the same ride. Anyway, it's hard to say how you fit in until you've been out there to see the pace.
* Still working on improving my physical conditioning
Ditto. And let me tell you, riding 130 miles is a heck of a way to work on it.

Speeds are pretty relative. There are people who will do a 100 miles, average 18 mph, and feel like they were slow, whereas I've never managed to be that fast.

You may want to check into the Fort Worth Bicycle Association, I think it is. Some of the people there are also in LSR. They have a bunch of organized rides of different lengths. Charity rides are another good way to see how you're comparing to some of the other riders around.

When I started out in randonneuring, I wasn't sure if I could make the cut-off times or not (I was riding my Worksman single-speed cruiser). So before I did a 200k route, I did 100k and 160k permanents by myself to see how it worked, and then went on to the 200k. I had previously done the HnH 100 and a number of 100k charity rides as well.

... because most women have better sense than to do something like a 1200k...)



You've met my Wife, then?

I know it's a prevalent attitude, but I've never understood saying to a significant other "you're doing something you really enjoy--you need to stop it."

When it happens, I don't think it happens in that way. I have felt this pressure before, and it pretty much put an end to my cycling for a while. Family responsibilities are real, and as my family grew, I needed to adjust. I was perhaps too immature at the time to understand this on my own, but my Wife made sure to bring it to my attention. To look at it as if "she" were trying to quash it is pretty unhealthy. The reality was that it wasn't quite fair for me to take off on a 6-hour bike ride every Saturday and leave her with all the parenting duties and house chores.

Now I'm getting back into it all, but I'm more of a grownup about it. I still have young children, but my oldest has shown an interest in riding with me. I still don't really have time to train, but I'm trying to maximize the riding time I have. I don't get upset when a planned bike ride gets superseded by more important things. Biking is for life, but my kids are only in their formative years for a very short time. I don't see me attempting the longer rides for a few years, yet. Heck, I'm only 43.

+1!

I'm intrigued, but ...
* I don't want to find myself out in the middle of nowhere with bike mechanical issues (I am inept)
Not often a problem. One solution is a cell phone and the phone number of anyone back home. I haven't had mechanical issues, but have had my wife come fetch me on two or three occasions when things didn't go according to plan.
-> I live by myself, no family within 400 miles. I don't want friends to feel obligated even if I can get ahold of them on weekends. (What's your wife's cell # ?)

* I am a huge fan of clean indoor plumbing
On the Lone Star Randonneur routes, the controls are generally convenience stores around 30 miles apart, or if the controls are farther apart, there's usually stores you can stop at in between. The rest room facilities are usually on par with what you'll find at most other businesses. Meaning, unless you just refuse to use anything but your own bathroom, you're probably going to be okay.
-> In town I am seeing more and more convenience stores not allowing customers to use the restrooms; they are for employee's use only. So far the employees have been sympathetic and let me in anyhow. Many are also scaling back their hours and are closed on holidays.

* I am afraid of being out in the middle of nowhere running out of drinking water
Solution: Plan ahead. Rest assured, none of the rest of us want to be in that situation either. You will generally always know where the next water is. What you won't always know is how long it will take you to get there and how much you'll be drinking as you go.
-> I've had 40 mile rides where I started well-hydrated, consumed a gallon of water on the roll, ran out, received kindness of strangers and still finished over 7# lighter than when I started. Overheated several times and had to seek shade.

* Sleep deprivation makes me more prone to seizures and other neuro issues.
Generally, a 200k ride will take 8-12 hours depending on your speed and fitness, so sleep deprivation shouldn't be an issue there. A 300k might take up to 18 hours or so, but that's still more or less normal waking hours for most people. Rides over that length may get into sleep deprivation, but if you're just starting, that's not a concern.
-> I don't do well with less than 6 hours of sleep. If I am physically stressed, I need more zzz's than that. Unfortunate side effect from brain surgery a couple of years ago.

* Most riders having my slow speed level aren't interested in riding more than 20 miles
What exactly is your slow speed? LSR does have some slower riders, some in the middle, some that are fast. One challenge they've been working on for the slower riders is trying to get them all at the same ride. Anyway, it's hard to say how you fit in until you've been out there to see the pace.
->I was riding 12mph over the winter, built up to 13mph this spring; now at 10mph recovering from a non-bike fractured elbow.

* Still working on improving my physical conditioning
Ditto. And let me tell you, riding 130 miles is a heck of a way to work on it.

Speeds are pretty relative. There are people who will do a 100 miles, average 18 mph, and feel like they were slow, whereas I've never managed to be that fast.

You may want to check into the Fort Worth Bicycle Association, I think it is. Some of the people there are also in LSR. They have a bunch of organized rides of different lengths. Charity rides are another good way to see how you're comparing to some of the other riders around.

When I started out in randonneuring, I wasn't sure if I could make the cut-off times or not (I was riding my Worksman single-speed cruiser). So before I did a 200k route, I did 100k and 160k permanents by myself to see how it worked, and then went on to the 200k. I had previously done the HnH 100 and a number of 100k charity rides as well.
-> I've done 100K a couple of times on my own but that's it. My bike is fine, it's just the engine.

When it happens, I don't think it happens in that way. I have felt this pressure before, and it pretty much put an end to my cycling for a while. Family responsibilities are real, and as my family grew, I needed to adjust. I was perhaps too immature at the time to understand this on my own, but my Wife made sure to bring it to my attention. To look at it as if "she" were trying to quash it is pretty unhealthy. The reality was that it wasn't quite fair for me to take off on a 6-hour bike ride every Saturday and leave her with all the parenting duties and house chores.

Now I'm getting back into it all, but I'm more of a grownup about it. I still have young children, but my oldest has shown an interest in riding with me. I still don't really have time to train, but I'm trying to maximize the riding time I have. I don't get upset when a planned bike ride gets superseded by more important things. Biking is for life, but my kids are only in their formative years for a very short time. I don't see me attempting the longer rides for a few years, yet. Heck, I'm only 43.

Sorry--I didn't mean to come across so harsh! To be clear, I completely agree with you that responsibilities come first (and that part of being in a relationship can be helping/reminding each other not to shirk them). I was talking about "extracurricular" time--which, I acknowledge, can be very scarce or non-existent during some stages of one's life. Sadly though, I have seen it happen pretty much as I described, and those relationships have gotten progressively unhealthier.

Really, between life responsibilities and common sense, it's a marvel that any randonneuring gets done, by men or women...

I do wonder about nkfrench's point about indoor plumbing. It's a lot easier for men to go behind a strategic bush, if needed, and I can understand being worried about the availability of bathrooms on some of the more rural brevets.

Just to present the other side of the coin, my wife thinks I'm nuts to ride long distance. She would be happy if I stopped, I'm pretty sure of that.

My daughter was this close to insisting that I let her come on my recent 400k. I told her she might want to try a shorter distance first, particularly considering that I don't think she has ridden further than 20 miles.

This relationship-and-biking stuff can get complicated and that's a fact. I ride with a group that we joke should be called Peyton Bikes. Stuff happens. Biking is a very intense activity both on a physical and an emotional level. When half a couple is spending a whole day or even longer in this kind of a shared experience, it's fairly easy to see why the left-out half might have negative feelings about it. And those negative feelings may not be appreciated by the rando-ing spouse, who sure as heck needs all the support he/she can get. It's pretty tough riding through molasses uphill.

I participated in this kind of thing for years and finally said Enough. It may be OK for a lot of people, but it was not OK for us. Machka and Rowan have a special deal because they can ride together and have fun. But many of our spouses aren't able to share the experience because of major performance differences. One is overreached while the other is loafing at an unhappy pace.

So I told Stoker that we were buying a tandem and she went along with it. Now, three years later, we tandem with some of the same people I used to ride with solo. I don't really ride solo anymore. I don't know if we'll ever ride a brevet together. Maybe. The future is hard to know. But we are having the time of our lives. Literally. We'll ride our first centuries together this summer and get up into the mountains. What fun!

I don't think we could have done this earlier. I still had issues to work through and Stoker wasn't yet willing to give up her separate time. But if a pair of you can see your way to it, it's a wonderful way to spend time with your bike and your sweetie at the same time. And a 350 lb. machine that corners like a motorcycle and has the power of a Lance Armstrong is a real kick.

I'm intrigued, but ...
* I don't want to find myself out in the middle of nowhere with bike mechanical issues (I am inept)

There are classes for this. Also, ride lots, and be willing to hang out and help friends fix their bikes. Mechanical aptitude is mostly a matter of practice.


* I am a huge fan of clean indoor plumbing

So am I. However I learned a looooooooooong time ago that you don't die if you need to use a port-a-potty.


* I am afraid of being out in the middle of nowhere running out of drinking water

Practice. For this climate, I find about 2L of water in 3ish bottles will get me to a point where I can refill and I haven't killed the 3rd bottle. I haven't gotten up to brevet distances yet, or even up to 100km yet... but it takes a lotta riding to work your way up there. If I find on 100+ km rides I am habitually going distances where I have to tap that 3rd bottle before I can refill, I will invest in larger bottles, or look at an alternate solution.

Also, no matter how little you've drunk... if you hit a spot where you can refill... REFILL.


* Sleep deprivation makes me more prone to seizures and other neuro issues

Again, practice. Also use good sense. If you can have seizures without warning, you cannot afford to push as hard as someone who does not have a seizure disorder, or as someone who does get warning. You only get one body! Do not abuse it, and do not feel bad if it turns out ultra-distance riding is abuse to your body.

The buddy system may also turn out to be important for you.


* Most riders having my slow speed level aren't interested in riding more than 20 miles
* Still working on improving my physical conditioning

On a long ride, I will often have an average speed of 6-8 mph. I'm getting faster, slowly. But you can go 40-50 miles quite easily at my low speed. You just need to be stubborn. Same goes for physical conditioning. I will not feel bad in the slightest if I don't manage 100km this year. I managed 72 this year, for the first time ever! I am close, but I had a lot of issues, and it's totally reasonable that I might need more practice and more conditioning to get up to 100km.

Sorry--I didn't mean to come across so harsh! To be clear, I completely agree with you that responsibilities come first (and that part of being in a relationship can be helping/reminding each other not to shirk them). I was talking about "extracurricular" time--which, I acknowledge, can be very scarce or non-existent during some stages of one's life. Sadly though, I have seen it happen pretty much as I described, and those relationships have gotten progressively unhealthier.

Really, between life responsibilities and common sense, it's a marvel that any randonneuring gets done, by men or women...

I do wonder about nkfrench's point about indoor plumbing. It's a lot easier for men to go behind a strategic bush, if needed, and I can understand being worried about the availability of bathrooms on some of the more rural brevets.

No apology necessary.

As for plumbing, my Wife is more beholden to porcelain than I am, but in general, lots of women get by just fine.

Practice. For this climate, I find about 2L of water in 3ish bottles will get me to a point where I can refill and I haven't killed the 3rd bottle. I haven't gotten up to brevet distances yet, or even up to 100km yet... but it takes a lotta riding to work your way up there. If I find on 100+ km rides I am habitually going distances where I have to tap that 3rd bottle before I can refill, I will invest in larger bottles, or look at an alternate solution.

Also, no matter how little you've drunk... if you hit a spot where you can refill... REFILL.



Camelbak + Bottles.

"On a long ride, I will often have an average speed of 6-8 mph."

The brevet cut-off times are based on 10-11 mph or so, 13 or 13.5 hours for a 200k, if I remember right, so you have to be able to average that fast at least. And that's based on total time, not riding time.

When it happens, I don't think it happens in that way. I have felt this pressure before, and it pretty much put an end to my cycling for a while. Family responsibilities are real, and as my family grew, I needed to adjust. I was perhaps too immature at the time to understand this on my own, but my Wife made sure to bring it to my attention. To look at it as if "she" were trying to quash it is pretty unhealthy. The reality was that it wasn't quite fair for me to take off on a 6-hour bike ride every Saturday and leave her with all the parenting duties and house chores.

Now I'm getting back into it all, but I'm more of a grownup about it. I still have young children, but my oldest has shown an interest in riding with me. I still don't really have time to train, but I'm trying to maximize the riding time I have. I don't get upset when a planned bike ride gets superseded by more important things. Biking is for life, but my kids are only in their formative years for a very short time. I don't see me attempting the longer rides for a few years, yet. Heck, I'm only 43.

I think RogerB has hit on a point here that many people miss. And that is that life requires balance. Some people's lives require more balance than others... if you have kids... career... spouse... family obligations... then you need more balance than a single person with no obligations.

We love cycling in this forum... and LD cycling in particular. But we have to admit that training for and completing any brevet requires a great degree of commitment. And completing a longer brevet like a 600K or 1200K demands that riders sacrifice other activities in favor of cycling. A voluntarily imbalanced situation.

Spouses get a bad rap when they attempt to stop the behavior... especially if it's a healthy habit like running or cycling. What others fail to consider is that they wouldn't want to put up with it themselves.

Example:
My brother has been married three times... and it is all because he chooses cycling and triathlons over his spouse. He runs before work... swims at lunch hour... and during the summer he cycles in the evening. It isn't unusual for him to spend 5 or 6 hours exercising on a weekday during the summer season. His first wife basically raised their kids as a single parent until she had enough of it.

That's why most of us LD cyclists are either too young to have kids or past the age where we have kids. I wasn't able to get fully back into cycling until my young'un got old and left home to make her own way in the world. My wife and I now have more free time for ourselves... but 15 years ago would not have been the right time for me to be spending a lot of time in the saddle.

Spouses get a bad rap when they attempt to stop the behavior... especially if it's a healthy habit like running or cycling. What others fail to consider is that they wouldn't want to put up with it themselves. Example: My brother has been married three times... and it is all because he chooses cycling and triathlons over his spouse.

I'd give your brother's first wife a pass. But wives # 2 and 3? Sorry. If you choose to get involved with someone that has a passion (and not necessarily for cycling), that's just part of the deal, part of what makes him who he is. I have zero sympathy for women (or men, for that matter, but in my circle it's almost always the woman doing this) who, having reeled in the man of their dreams, promptly set about trying to change him. :lol:

There's just a lot of invidual variation in there. There are people who are more fit than me, and ride less, but still manage to make LD rides or do triathlons or whatever. I average about 2 hours a day spent in a car, and if I just moved closer to work, I could easily ride twice as much as I do and still have more free time, so that's pretty variable.

As for family time- I've been down that road, too. When my kids were growing up, part of the time, I was doing a lot of hiking, and my wife got tired of that. But then if I was there at the house, she didn't want to do anything, the kids were busy on their own stuff, so it just kind of left me twiddling my thumbs. And now, it's the same with cycling. The kids are off at college. My wife doesn't feel well (again) so she's taking a nap (again) and if she wasn't doing that, she'd be watching some cop show on TV. And I'd be out riding if it wasn't raining at the moment. By the way, when we had first moved to Colorado, I went for a walk and heard "It doesn't do any good if you only do it once!" Then later on I heard "You don't have to go EVERY day!" So it goes.

One of the main things holding me back is the thought of having to ride out in the boonies by myself after dark. A lot of the longer brevets here include areas that are not well-populated and are a bit isolated. I am relatively slow and usually end up riding by myself on century rides and such.

There have been enough cases of women being attacked or abducted here that I would not consider it unless I had a riding partner that I knew would stay with me.

Practically ALL brevets include areas that are not well populated, by intention. But on the flip side, on a 200k, you can usually be in before dark, especially in the summer. I haven't worked out how to do the riding partner bit yet.

I'm intrigued, but ...
* I don't want to find myself out in the middle of nowhere with bike mechanical issues (I am inept)
* I am a huge fan of clean indoor plumbing
* I am afraid of being out in the middle of nowhere running out of drinking water
* Sleep deprivation makes me more prone to seizures and other neuro issues
* Most riders having my slow speed level aren't interested in riding more than 20 miles
* Still working on improving my physical conditioning

1) I took courses to learn how to fix my bicycle ... at least basic repairs
2) I have spent the last year of my life with very basic outdoor plumbing (until quite recently), and have often camped under rustic conditions.
3) Any time you pass a water source, fill up.
4) Seizures and neuro issues are a problem. You might want to limit your long rides to under 400 km.
5) If you join a randonneuring/audax club you will find riders who want to ride more than 20 miles. And possibly some slower riders as well. I'd like to encourage more and more slower riders to get into randonneuring. The more slower riders, the better.
6) Keep working at it. Do a few centuries, then give a 200K an attempt.

I do wonder about nkfrench's point about indoor plumbing. It's a lot easier for men to go behind a strategic bush, if needed, and I can understand being worried about the availability of bathrooms on some of the more rural brevets.

You just squat in the ditch or beside the road. It's often cleaner and easier doing that than using a toilet.

One thing I really like about Australia is the importance they place on having public toilet blocks in just about every town. I've hardly ever had to squat here.



Really, between life responsibilities and common sense, it's a marvel that any randonneuring gets done, by men or women...

For me, it was about prioritising my time. During the 8 months of winter, I would work long hours, and attend night classes, and do heaps of housework, and do any socialising I felt like doing, etc. ... all while maintaining my daily 1-2 hours of exercise during the week, and somewhat longer on the weekends.

During the 4 months of summer, I would work shorter hours, would not attend night classes, would only do the basic housework, and if you wanted to socialise with me, you'd have to get on a bicycle and ride with me. And my cycling would increase dramatically.

"On a long ride, I will often have an average speed of 6-8 mph."

The brevet cut-off times are based on 10-11 mph or so, 13 or 13.5 hours for a 200k, if I remember right, so you have to be able to average that fast at least. And that's based on total time, not riding time.

The minimum riding speed for the SR series (200K. 300K, 400K, and 600K)

200K = 13.5 hours
300K = 20 hours
400K = 27 hours
600K = 40 hours.

Once you get up to the 1000K the time situation changes. It's 15 km/h for the first 600, and then lower for the time after that.

Those times include everything ... eating, using the toilet, sleeping, taking photos, and of course, cycling. The clock starts ticking when you roll out of the start area (at precisely the specified time) and stops when you roll into the finish area.

One of the main things holding me back is the thought of having to ride out in the boonies by myself after dark. A lot of the longer brevets here include areas that are not well-populated and are a bit isolated. I am relatively slow and usually end up riding by myself on century rides and such.

There have been enough cases of women being attacked or abducted here that I would not consider it unless I had a riding partner that I knew would stay with me.

I agree with the bit about being out in the boonies by myself after dark. I'm really not fond of that part either.

However ... most centuries only take about 8 hours so they can be done in daylight hours. My longest centuries have been in the winter and the cold weather has slowed me down. For those centuries, I plan longer loops out of town during the day, and then shorter loops in town where there are street lights once the sun goes down. I've done more solo centuries than I can count.

With a 13.5 hour time limit on a 200K, if you choose one with a start time of 7 am and can get in by 8.30 pm, you can likely finish in daylight. I have never done a 200K where I have done any riding in the dark.

With a 20 hour time limit on a 300K, there might be some riding in the dark. In Canada, most of the 300Ks I rode started at 6 am, and I usually finished them between 16 and 18 hours, so I would be done between 10 pm and midnight ... so there might only be 1-3 hours of darkness, and that's not too bad.

It's when it gets longer than that where I start to get nervous and edgy about being out there alone.

Practically ALL brevets include areas that are not well populated, by intention. But on the flip side, on a 200k, you can usually be in before dark, especially in the summer. I haven't worked out how to do the riding partner bit yet.

If you do have a riding partner (especially if it's someone you just end up riding with on a brevet, rather than a friend/spouse), what is the etiquette if you ride at different speeds? Do people prefer to go it alone rather than be dragged down by another person's slower pace? If you're the slow one, do you feel pressured to try to go faster than you would like to?

I think the stats are out on the site. But the US and Canada have highest female participation, followed by Germany and England. The Italians and French are the low side.

The way I figure the French women are supporting their male friends and the Italians have better things to do - ooo - la la - :-)

If you do have a riding partner (especially if it's someone you just end up riding with on a brevet, rather than a friend/spouse), what is the etiquette if you ride at different speeds? Do people prefer to go it alone rather than be dragged down by another person's slower pace? If you're the slow one, do you feel pressured to try to go faster than you would like to?
I've never really had a riding partner on brevets. If I did, I would stay with that person unless we agreed otherwise. I have stayed with slower riders on brevets rather than ride alone. This year I haven't been riding that well and I don't like people waiting for me under those circumstances. If it's a matter of forgetting to adjust my cue sheet, then I'd like them to wait. On our series, we are pretty good about waiting for our group at night.

If you do have a riding partner (especially if it's someone you just end up riding with on a brevet, rather than a friend/spouse), what is the etiquette if you ride at different speeds? Do people prefer to go it alone rather than be dragged down by another person's slower pace? If you're the slow one, do you feel pressured to try to go faster than you would like to?

Personally, I'd be willing to slow down some for another rider. If it's somebody I get along with, I'd be willing to do that all day and on the next ride, too. I'd be willing to slow down a lot on one ride for some reason (ie, if asked), but would prefer not to do that every ride. Yes, it pressures the slower one to go faster, but that doesn't much matter because they're usually going about as fast as they can anyway. The ideal solution is for the slower person to draft the faster, thereby speeding the slower rider up slightly as well. When we've tried this, what happens is that the first little hill you get to, the slower rider slows up more than the faster and they're not drafting anymore. I suppose that's a good reason to have a mirror, which I don't. If you like to talk while you ride and traffic permits, ride side by side. If not, draft.

I discovered pretty quickly that you can catch up with people and maybe ride along with them a while, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have any interest in riding with you or that they will wait up if you stop or slow down for some reason.

If you do have a riding partner (especially if it's someone you just end up riding with on a brevet, rather than a friend/spouse), what is the etiquette if you ride at different speeds? Do people prefer to go it alone rather than be dragged down by another person's slower pace? If you're the slow one, do you feel pressured to try to go faster than you would like to?I always prefer to ride in a small group. It's more fun than riding alone and is more efficient, i.e. faster, if the group is even close to an even match. It's good for the mind to be busy with something other than one's self. If it's just two people, the stronger one does most of the pulling, but not all of it. Many times one person will be faster on the hills, the other faster on the flat, so the climber waits for the better descender. Sometimes when we've come to a long flat section, I've gotten the group to wait for one or two people who got dropped on the hills, because the larger the group the stronger, especially if the winds are unfavorable.

I see two mindsets. One is the person who is riding the brevet to do it alone and unsupported. He or she won't wait on that hilltop. They'll just descend, even if another rider is only 100 feet behind them. On the flat, they'll just keep that gap. Some are more like me, who like the social aspects. I just enjoy people, really more than I enjoy the road. I like what the road does to people. I'll wait for someone, but once they're on, if they are obviously too weak to pull or to allow me to ride at my pace, I'll say a few words to them and be gone. I'll work extra hard to get onto someone ahead of me and see how that goes. Maybe we can work together, maybe not.

Faster than I would like to? Is there such a speed? Seriously, if hanging on drives my HR up too high on a climb, I'll drop off without a qualm. Sometimes I'll see that person again later, sometimes not. I've started long rides with a group that thought they would stay together, but many times things happen and someone gets dropped. Or everyone sooner or later gets dropped and comes in singly or with other groups. Or the group is a good match and all come in together. Hopefully everyone is adult enough for there to be no recriminations. If there's an emotional attachment beyond riding buddy, that's another story.

Flats and mechanicals - On a brevet, usually the person with the problem says they've got it under control and gets left, or says they don't and gets helped. Sometimes I'll see that person at the next control, sometimes not.

Controls - it seems that mostly people don't try to stay together when leaving a control, but rather ride when they're ready and reform into another group or not, depending on how things turn out. I guess we like that feeling of independence and can-do. That's part of the reason we're there.

Brevet riding is not at all like a group ride. It's more a collection of individuals who may or may not form advantageous alliances as the ride goes on.

I've seen too many dnf's because of people staying with other riders. One of the riders I've seen this happen to was a woman who kept helping people with their mechanicals and got behind as a result.


Not everyone has the time management skills required to hit the controles at the right time once they've gotten close to the time limits.

I always prefer to ride in a small group. It's more fun than riding alone and is more efficient, i.e. faster, if the group is even close to an even match. It's good for the mind to be busy with something other than one's self. If it's just two people, the stronger one does most of the pulling, but not all of it. Many times one person will be faster on the hills, the other faster on the flat, so the climber waits for the better descender. Sometimes when we've come to a long flat section, I've gotten the group to wait for one or two people who got dropped on the hills, because the larger the group the stronger, especially if the winds are unfavorable.

I see two mindsets. One is the person who is riding the brevet to do it alone and unsupported. He or she won't wait on that hilltop. They'll just descend, even if another rider is only 100 feet behind them. On the flat, they'll just keep that gap. Some are more like me, who like the social aspects. I just enjoy people, really more than I enjoy the road. I like what the road does to people. I'll wait for someone, but once they're on, if they are obviously too weak to pull or to allow me to ride at my pace, I'll say a few words to them and be gone. I'll work extra hard to get onto someone ahead of me and see how that goes. Maybe we can work together, maybe not.

Faster than I would like to? Is there such a speed? Seriously, if hanging on drives my HR up too high on a climb, I'll drop off without a qualm. Sometimes I'll see that person again later, sometimes not. I've started long rides with a group that thought they would stay together, but many times things happen and someone gets dropped. Or everyone sooner or later gets dropped and comes in singly or with other groups. Or the group is a good match and all come in together. Hopefully everyone is adult enough for there to be no recriminations. If there's an emotional attachment beyond riding buddy, that's another story.

Flats and mechanicals - On a brevet, usually the person with the problem says they've got it under control and gets left, or says they don't and gets helped. Sometimes I'll see that person at the next control, sometimes not.

Controls - it seems that mostly people don't try to stay together when leaving a control, but rather ride when they're ready and reform into another group or not, depending on how things turn out. I guess we like that feeling of independence and can-do. That's part of the reason we're there.

Brevet riding is not at all like a group ride. It's more a collection of individuals who may or may not form advantageous alliances as the ride goes on.
A very nice post -- well put, balanced viewpoints from experience, and logical.

I've seen too many dnf's because of people staying with other riders. One of the riders I've seen this happen to was a woman who kept helping people with their mechanicals and got behind as a result.


Not everyone has the time management skills required to hit the controles at the right time once they've gotten close to the time limits.

My 1st Century "Fail" was from trying to hang on to a group of riders that was really just too fast for me. The speed was exhilarating, but in the end, I bonked and had to convert to a "metric." Last year, I finally started getting back into this. I was much less "trained" than I had been on that last attempt, but I completed 60 miles at my own pace and felt great at the end. Got together with another rider for part of it to defeat the wind, and had fun trading hill duty (me) with flats duty (him). But I was always mindful of "riding my own ride." Hope to finally knock out that first century this year.