Advocacy & Safety - Using bike paths

On my way to work this morning (in my car) along a narrow two-lane road with heavy traffic, there was a biker causing quite a bit of a slowdown as people had to ease across the centerline to get around him. This is a 45-mph road, so slowing to bicycle speed was causing a definite backup.

Now even as a bicyclist myself, the thing that really annoyed me about this is that there is a very nice, perfectly serviceable asphalt bike path running alongside the length of this road! I have no idea why this guy wanted to brave being passed closely by a string of SUVs instead of having a nice quieter, safer ride along the path. I am all for the right to ride my bicycle on public roads, but the bike paths are also there for a reason.

I think I recall talking to a policeman one time about riding and he mentioned that the law (in these parts anyway) says something about bicyclists legally sharing the road, but if there is a bike path then they are required to use it instead. Any thoughts on this?

Doug G

There are many cyclists would use a road and not a path. Most importantly, the path may not be as usable as you think:

-The path could have awkward and dangerous intersections with roads,
-The path might be rougher than the road,
-It only takes a tiny segment of difficult-to-use path to make using the whole thing a waste of time,
-The path might have a low speed limit,
-Cyclists don't want to dodge joggers any more than cars want to dodge cyclists,
-It's easier to turn left from the road than it is from the path,
-Taking a road is usually faster than taking a nearby path.
If the cop is right about the law, then you have a bad law. Iowa cyclists successfully fought against a similar law earlier this year. The whole concept was discussed in this thread: http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=44659&page=1&pp=25

Edit: Many transportational cyclists oppose the creation of bike/multi-use paths specifically because they fear being kept off the streets. Given the choice between 1) using the road and having no path, and 2) having a path but being barred from the road, I'd chose the road almost every time.

Edit: If the path near the road really were as good as the road, wouldn't the cyclist have been on the path? The only reason to ban cyclists from roads near paths is that you think your paths aren't good enough for cyclists to use voluntarily.

Edit: Looking at your other posts, I can see where you're coming from. You mainly do recreational and fitness cycling (not that there's anything wrong with that). Most receational riders would never think of getting on a 45 mph road when there's a path anywhere near. But the cyclist you saw on your way to work was likely a commuter who was just trying to get from "Point A" to "Point B." Bike paths are usually not the most efficient way to do that.

Uh oh .. this should turn into a "fun" thread. :)

I am a recreational rider. Just this last week I rode into Eau Claire, WI on a bike path. I can see why he might not have wanted to take a bike path if this town is normal. I had to dodge walkers, runners, dog walkers, roller bladers, and a drunk.
I was passed by another biker on the inside of a curve who rode over the grass. I was doing about 12 mph at the time. He tore up the grass. I was the only biker who stopped at any of the 15 or so stop signs along the route, except for the very very busy highway.
However, if you create a hazard on the rode then you should ride a path.

However, if you create a hazard on the rode then you should ride a path.

Requiring traffic to slow down is not a hazard. Some impatient prick may rush into an unsafe passing move, but in that case it is they, not the cyclist, that is the hazard.

On my way to work this morning (in my car) along a narrow two-lane road with heavy traffic, there was a biker causing quite a bit of a slowdown as people had to ease across the centerline to get around him. This is a 45-mph road, so slowing to bicycle speed was causing a definite backup.

Now even as a bicyclist myself, the thing that really annoyed me about this is that there is a very nice, perfectly serviceable asphalt bike path running alongside the length of this road! I have no idea why this guy wanted to brave being passed closely by a string of SUVs instead of having a nice quieter, safer ride along the path. I am all for the right to ride my bicycle on public roads, but the bike paths are also there for a reason.

I suggest you ride the route twice yourself, once on the path, and once on the road, and determine for yourself which is better. 'Why isn't he using that nice bikepath?' is not a question that can be answered from the seat of a car.

as a commuter i have access to bike trails , but avoid them like the plaque because a lot of people are very rude when they use the trails. they walk or ride three abreast,have dogs off leash and walkers give you $hit for riding your bike and think you are going too fast when your going 10 mph.
yes bike paths suck! i will take my chances on the road any day

pat

I use the bike paths when available, but in my local area we have had none until recent construction has included them, so the ones we have available are nice. So far I've not had a problem with other users of the path at all. Last weekend we had the chance to ride some of the W&OD trail during a weekend (as opposed to during the week) for the first time. I'd read that it was pretty hectic during the weekends, and it was very busy, but again no problems. We were up on the Purcellville end though, where it is less urban by far than it is closer in to DC, so I'm sure that's a factor.

So far my experience with trail has been good, and I will use them if available, although if it was an area with many busy intersections I think that I'd avoid them, especially if there were two lanes of traffic going in my direction. I'm also riding recreationally, not commuting, so I have the luxury of route choice to a greater extent than commuters do.

I do alot of riding in the Berkshires, and we have a new bicycle trail that runs parallel to Massachusetts Rt 8.

I use the trail some; but there are times when the main road is better. I find that experienced cyclists--especially racers--use the main road because it has no pedestrians, dogs, children and bladers on its shoulders.

95% of the time, a trail is not going where I wish to go. Ergo, I rarely support initiatives to expand 'bicycle' trails when i hear about them. What goodwill they generate for cyclists often is squandered when cyclists--who cuss that automobiles will not share the road with them--turn around and whine about sharing trail space with other users.


roughstuff

I take about 5 miles of bike path on my commute. In the morning there are very few people on it apart from the commuters. There were some people out with their dogs but they were all on leashes and were on the grass well away from the path. The best thing about this path (Lachine canal) is that it has underpasses at the roads so there is no need to slow down for intersections. In the evening there are a lot of recreational riders and roller bladers. I couldnt go so fast and had to take care when passing, but this wasnt any more inconvenient than passing a cyclist was for DougG.

I do alot of riding in the Berkshires, and we have a new bicycle trail that runs parallel to Massachusetts Rt 8.

I use the trail some; but there are times when the main road is better. I find that experienced cyclists--especially racers--use the main road because it has no pedestrians, dogs, children and bladers on its shoulders.

95% of the time, a trail is not going where I wish to go. Ergo, I rarely support initiatives to expand 'bicycle' trails when i hear about them. What goodwill they generate for cyclists often is squandered when cyclists--who cuss that automobiles will not share the road with them--turn around and whine about sharing trail space with other users.


roughstuff

Lets see,sidewalks are for walking,streets for cars and bikepaths for everybody.How about a place for bikes,and nothing but.

Bike paths are the work of the Devil! :D

Fortunately, California has a (rarely-enforced) mandatory sidepath law for pedestrians, but not for cyclists. When the City of Solana Beach added a Class I multiuse path along the east side of Coast Highway 101, the San Diego County Bicycle Coalition was able to convince them to retain the Class II on-road bike lane, although they went with a code-minimum 1.5M / 5 ft width, even though wider paths are recommended in areas with such heavy bicycle traffic. Across the San Elijo Lagoon, Encinitas has a multiuse trail along the west side of Coast Highway 101. Although the Class II lane here is discontinuous, I always choose the street in both locations, for safety, enjoyment, and efficiency.

In contrast, Oceanside has a wide, lightly-used trail along the San Luis Rey River, roughly paralleling the 65mph Highway 76 expressway. Because of the latter's high-speed merges and diverges, I strongly prefer the multiuse trail, which passes under all major intersections, in this case.

Context ... context ... context!

Lets see,sidewalks are for walking,streets for cars and bikepaths for everybody.How about a place for bikes,and nothing but.

Go RIGHT ahead and advocate that if you wish to do so. After all...ew have limited access roads where bicycles (among other things) are banned, so you have a good case under certain circumstances.

But for decades the theme of cyclists has been to share the road. Those cries ring hollow when we want paths of, by, and for cyclists. And in fact on the path I refer to in the Berkshires, cyclists are a plurality, but not a majority by any means. Yet they are by far the most vocal complainers.

Roughstuff

On my way to work this morning (in my car) along a narrow two-lane road with heavy traffic, there was a biker causing quite a bit of a slowdown as people had to ease across the centerline to get around him. This is a 45-mph road, so slowing to bicycle speed was causing a definite backup.
It just depends on the situation.

There is a road I avoid almost completely in Atlanta because its four lanes are so narrow I'd have to take the lane, which would cause huge delays for miles behind me. "Just not prudent" (in the words of a former el Presidente. :lol: )

But there are also times that there are bike paths built along perfectly good cycling roads, wide enough for traffic to pass without a problem. I won't use those paths because they deny the right-of-way I enjoy on the street and force me to stop repeatedly, not only for minor intersecting roads, but even driveways.

I live in a community with a rapidly growing system of multi-use paths. Many of them connect city parks, schools, libraries, etc. so I use them frequently when pulling my 3 year old daughter in her trailer, and I think they work extremely well. We ride the roads from home to the path, the path to the park, library, etc., stop to let her play, then reverse. Not always a great workout, but it lets me get in a few extra miles each week as well as spend some quality time with my daughter.

As a general rule, I avoid the paths when riding "seriously" for reasons already stated...pedestrians walking 3 abreast, dogs not leashed, low speed limits, etc.

It is perfectly legal for bikers to ride on the road. Infact they are allowed 1m clearence from the gutter out. I know many motorists dont like biie riders on the road, but they need to start looking at it from the bikers point of view. If the bike rider has no where to go, except on the road, they are prey to the many cars that come past. I'ts not just the annoying issue of bikes on roads, but safety. And if this person was riding at 'peak hour' then it is pretty stupid. When the roads are really busy, ride on the footpath, because you will just be holding up traffic and putting yourself at risk. Still, i dont feel very safe riding on a main road because i dont know what the drivers intensions are. We just need to look out for each other whether your on a car or bike.

So, DougG, have we answered your question?

On my way to work this morning (in my car) along a narrow two-lane road with heavy traffic, there was a biker causing quite a bit of a slowdown as people had to ease across the centerline to get around him. This is a 45-mph road, so slowing to bicycle speed was causing a definite backup.

Are you sure it was the bicycle causing the backup? I passed through quite a backup on the Sundale Bridge on my way home from work this evening, but there was no bicycle at the front of it. You see, heavy (or even moderate) traffic banks up of it's own accord. Traffic is inherently slow. In fact, most afternoons my bicycle is significantly faster than the "traffic". I expect to be home 90 minutes earlier than the car commuters on my 12.7km ride home tomorrow.


Now even as a bicyclist myself, the thing that really annoyed me about this is that there is a very nice, perfectly serviceable asphalt bike path running alongside the length of this road! I have no idea why this guy wanted to brave being passed closely by a string of SUVs instead of having a nice quieter, safer ride along the path. I am all for the right to ride my bicycle on public roads, but the bike paths are also there for a reason.

Bikepaths are there for a reason, but that reason has nothing to do with assisting cyclists and more to do with cynical political stunts. Are you sure the path was perfectly servicable and safe? I haven't seen too many that were -- one in this entire country, and that I was only riding at touring speed. I wouldn't have used it for a 30km/h commute. As Allister said above, ride both routes for yourself and determine which is safer. If you prefer the path, you're welcome to it. However I think it's totally unreasonable to expect everyone else to put up with hazards, meaningless detours and having to "dismount to cross road/bridge/park/whatever council feels like putting in the way".

You need to remember that cycle commuters have deadlines just like car commuters, and still have to get to work on time.


I think I recall talking to a policeman one time about riding and he mentioned that the law (in these parts anyway) says something about bicyclists legally sharing the road, but if there is a bike path then they are required to use it instead. Any thoughts on this?


I suggest a quick google search and read the law as it is written for yourself. I think you'll find it refers to a bikelane rather than a bikepath -- these are completely different animals. I think you'll find it will also say the words "if practicable" or something similar. As I related above, there are many reasons why it wouldn't be practical to use a path at all.

However, if you create a hazard on the rode then you should ride a path.

Would you then say that if pedestrians slow down cyclists on the paths (thereby creating a "hazard"), that pedestrians should stay off the paths? Afterall, we do build them perfectly fine sidewalks.

And if car drivers create hazards by driving too fast for conditions, tailgating, or passing unsafely, should we ban cars from the roads? Afterall, they can always take the bus.

Would you then say that if pedestrians slow down cyclists on the paths (thereby creating a "hazard"), that pedestrians should stay off the paths? Afterall, we do build them perfectly fine sidewalks.

And if car drivers create hazards by driving too fast for conditions, tailgating, or passing unsafely, should we ban cars from the roads? Afterall, they can always take the bus.

They should move to their right and let the bicyclist pass for safety and as a courteousy.

They should move to their right and let the bicyclist pass for safety and as a courteousy.

I walked into that one. :) But seriously, a pedestrian can safely hug the curb of a path, while a cyclist cannot safely hug the curb of a road. My joke about banning drivers from the road stands.

I don't get the satisfaction on a trail that I get on the road. What fun is it to be able to make your way around little old laidies and the like at slow speeds?

Beating several tons of steel with the power of several hundred horses down the street, having the pedestrian look at the window at you in disbelief as you pass them just gives you such a great feeling... Knowing which cars are going to do something stupid and when, knowing when the lights are going to change and exactly how fast to go to hit green almost every time...

I could go on and on and on.

I only ride the trails (and we do have some nice ones around here) late at night when there's nothing to race but myself, and nothing to avoid but squirrels and rabbits.

One town near Clemson, SC has a nice bike path running all the way to town. The only bad thing is that there are several outgrowths of briars that come across at about head level. The last time I used that route, I was on one of the fast downhill sections when I suddenly got a thorny vine across the face! :mad:

That kinda soured me on bike paths.... I still use them, though. (But at much slower speeds)

We have great bikepaths that go to the beach but all the walkers,skaters,joggers,babys learning to walk and ride,they all spread across both riding lanes so on weelends you cant ride on the bikepaths more the a mile before you have to slow.Try that for 25 miles.Oh,most of it runs along really nice parks with walkways but dont you dare ride your bike in there or you will for sure hear about it. Everybody has there place to use but for bikes,its always multi-use even if its bikes only.We do lose every time.

The only bad thing is that there are several outgrowths of briars that come across at about head level. The last time I used that route, I was on one of the fast downhill sections when I suddenly got a thorny vine across the face!

I had that problem once but I then fixed it with the saw blade on my Swiss Army knife

I love this thread! I also have a bike path along a section of road in which I ride for my commute to work. This bike path is poor to say the least. In addition to having to avoid the traffic that is turning right and the loose gravel I have decided to stay off the path. I now ride on the road and follow all the traffic laws that applies to the road. I find this safer and faster. However I get such an adrenaline rush when I get on this road that I sprint the whole 6 miles. I just feel that I am more in control when I am on the road with the cars. I am constantly thinking about how or what I can do to avoid any mishaps with cars.

The other 6 miles is on a limestone Rails to trail path. I will have to admit that it is allot more relaxing once I get on this trail. I let my guard down because all I am concerned about is chipmunks, squirrels and rabbits. My speed is much slower on this part of my commute, but it does give me time to "smell the roses".

Why do people worry about what others are doing? If it is not hurting anyone then "let it be" especially in this case.

One town near Clemson, SC has a nice bike path running all the way to town. The only bad thing is that there are several outgrowths of briars that come across at about head level. The last time I used that route, I was on one of the fast downhill sections when I suddenly got a thorny vine across the face! :mad:

That kinda soured me on bike paths.... I still use them, though. (But at much slower speeds)

I like bikepaths, if I'm not in a hurry. They are really not setup for 15+ MPH (too narrow or too crowded, like autos on the road). There are very few in central MA that are of any use.

... Why do people worry about what others are doing? If it is not hurting anyone then "let it be" especially in this case.

I concur in principle, but I do worry about what other people are doing when it affects me directly. If politicians want to ban bicycles from a certain street for which they have provided a parallel multiuse path, or to rip out a good Class II bike lane so that an adjacent MUP can be made wider or more meandering/pleasant for casual walkers, I want to know about it, so that I can appropriately defend my rights. Far too many self-proclaimed bicyclst politicians fall into the casual MUP user category; very few are hard-core commuters, transportation cyclists, serious long distance tourists, or club riders.

I love this thread! I also have a bike path along a section of road in which I ride for my commute to work. This bike path is poor to say the least. In addition to having to avoid the traffic that is turning right and the loose gravel I have decided to stay off the path. I now ride on the road and follow all the traffic laws that applies to the road. I find this safer and faster. However I get such an adrenaline rush when I get on this road that I sprint the whole 6 miles. I just feel that I am more in control when I am on the road with the cars. I am constantly thinking about how or what I can do to avoid any mishaps with cars.

The other 6 miles is on a limestone Rails to trail path. I will have to admit that it is allot more relaxing once I get on this trail. I let my guard down because all I am concerned about is chipmunks, squirrels and rabbits. My speed is much slower on this part of my commute, but it does give me time to "smell the roses"..

Sometimes you can do both, just go slow and spin up a storm, then you're all pysched to launch when conditions let you.




Why do people worry about what others are doing? If it is not hurting anyone then "let it be" especially in this case.

Yeah, what people do, what they eat, and what they buy. Why do they care?

Roads have rules, the right of way is clearly established, everyone is actually very predictable. "Bike" paths (actually used by anything without a motor) have no rules, and hence are chaos. Like everyone esle said, on the paths people walk three or four abreast, and have dogs on leashes that are so long they look like they would stretch to the moon! (I sometimes think no leash would be safer - such a long leash just adds the danger of being clotheslined.)

To tell the truth, I feel a little guilty when I ride on the paths, because I feel like I'm ruining it for all the other people who want to have a relaxing walk with the dog or a leisurly ride, and here I come whizzing by from behind yelling "On your left!" and scaring the crap out of them. . .

To tell the truth, I feel a little guilty when I ride on the paths, because I feel like I'm ruining it for all the other people who want to have a relaxing walk with the dog or a leisurly ride, and here I come whizzing by from behind yelling "On your left!" and scaring the crap out of them. . .

Isn't that funny? I even bought a bell and will give it a touch while I'm still out a ways, but they will still jump like a snake struck at them when you speak. I have to admit though, the wife and I were checking the surface of the C&O canal towpath a couple of weeks ago, and we both jumped the same way when a bike came up from behind us with the rider saying "on your left". We laughed at ourselves over it.

It very much depends on the specifics of this bike path.

Is it truely a bike path, not a multiuse?
Is it smooth like the road?
For how long does it follow the road?
Does it cross intersecting streets? How many, what is the design of these crossings?
Is it a two way path or is there one on each side of road?
etc.

Basically if this is a smooth bike only path that follows a road for at least 3-4mi or so without intersection I would use the path. But if this is a glorified sidewalk with many side road crossings it would safer to ride on the road.

Al

Here you can get an impression how bikepaths in German citys look like. Most of em are more dangerous than driving on the road. In Berlin the police counted the bike accidents before and after bikepaths were created - 50 % of the accidents happenend on bikepaths between cars and bikes although there are just 18% of the roads with a bikepath!


http://radweg.mine.nu/mirror/user.cs.tu-berlin.de/%257Erammelt/radweg/index.html

http://radweg.mine.nu/mirror/www.huebsch-gemacht.de/radweg/


How do your bikepaths look like? Also got some photos for me?

yama

Basically if this is a smooth bike only path that follows a road for at least 3-4mi or so without intersection I would use the path. But if this is a glorified sidewalk with many side road crossings it would safer to ride on the road.


The path I often take to work goes on for (I think) 5 miles without crossing a road. When a segment is done that goes under a road, it will be up to about 7 miles. There is very little pedestrian traffic during commuter hours, so I often take it. But it takes about 30-35 minutes. This morning, I needed to get to work quickly, so I used the roads, which took only about 20 minutes. The key is to maintain our choice as to which way to go.

P.S. What happened to DougG? He started a thread by asking questions, and then left. DougG, have we answered your questions?

Our path is two lanes,one each way and runs under the street overpasses and goes for 35 miles. From the beach to the mountains.

Roads have rules, the right of way is clearly established, everyone is actually very predictable. "Bike" paths (actually used by anything without a motor) have no rules, and hence are chaos. Like everyone esle said, on the paths people walk three or four abreast, and have dogs on leashes that are so long they look like they would stretch to the moon! (I sometimes think no leash would be safer - such a long leash just adds the danger of being clotheslined.)

To tell the truth, I feel a little guilty when I ride on the paths, because I feel like I'm ruining it for all the other people who want to have a relaxing walk with the dog or a leisurly ride, and here I come whizzing by from behind yelling "On your left!" and scaring the crap out of them. . .

Second!!!

This issue reall gets to what is your riding style. The faster you go the safer you are to be on the road. When I am out with the kids the paths are great I don't have to worrie about cars but at the cross streets. I the area Madison they just stared to put in traffic circles one i particular I think was badly planed they have a nice bike lane going up to it but the expect you to move to the bikepath (aka sidewalk) going around the outside of the circle crossing the road 5x for 1 revolution speed limit for traffic in the circle 15mph no one does it and I follow the road and do 15-20mph H*** if i'm going to stop for the cars when I go as fast as them.

...I have no idea why this guy wanted to brave being passed closely by a string of SUVs instead of having a nice quieter, safer ride along the path...

Exactly.

The path probably wasn't as you think, or the cyclist had to get somewhere faster. I often ride on a few roads that have very nice, quiet paths next to them. They are not safe at speed though(I do enjoy them at a leisurely pace-definitely not a workout). I haven't had anyone in cars give me any grief over it<YET>.

Sometimes you can do both, just go slow and spin up a storm, then you're all pysched to launch when conditions let you.




Yeah, what people do, what they eat, and what they buy. Why do they care?



What? You talk'n to me!

What? You talk'n to me!

I don't see anybody else here, I must be talkin ta you!