Tandem Cycling - Anyone Else Cursing Their 9-spd 11-34?

My wife and I really need our 24-34 when the pitch gets over 10%, but I'm almost at the point where I'd rather walk these stretches than put up with the large gaps in the overall cassette. At our age we're happy to cruise along at 19 mph or so in the flats which puts us in our 48-17 combination.

If the road just turns up a bit or we turn more into the wind the 17-20-23 just kill our speed since SWMBO can't spin much over 92 or 93 (no complaints mind you). The 13-30 has a much more reasonable 17-19-21 progression.

Am I alone here? Granted, our drive train is a bit unusual with effectively 24-36-48-60 chainrings, but the cassette jumps will be the same regardless of the chainrings. The only saving grace with the 11-34 is that the 36 and 48 almost provide split gearing: I don't mind double-shifting on occasion, but don't want it to be standard practice.

Should I just slow down (more) and enjoy the roses?

I'm with you on the spacing issue, I hate huge spaces between gears. I like my 11-28 on the back with the 32/42/55 in the front. We've done some pretty stout climbs with that gearing but we do struggle a bit when the pitches start pushing 15-20%. Gearing is a very personal thing and you should go with what works best for you. If I were in your shoes though, I'd sacrifice some top or bottom end and go for a tighter cluster. For most people it makes more sense to sacrifice on the top end.

We're working as hard as we can to wear out our 11-34. We'll replace it with a 12-34 and get rid of some huge gaps. We run 52-39-26 in the front, and with our current cassette we have the same gears in either 52 or 39 in the middle of the cassette, which is totally frustrating. The 12-34 will be better in our flat cruising range because then the front will split out the gears. I don't mind the big jumps in the back in the lower gears. So we slow down a hair to get the cadence right. Big deal. But on the flat, when there's a 14 rpm difference between one gear and the next, that's a pain.

We don't care about losing the 11 cog. We can coast downhill faster than most tandems can pedal, in fact we pass pedalers all the time. Not sure why. We're not that fat.

With the 60 effective large ring, going to a 12-34 would make a lot of sense.

My wife and I were just talking about this the other night after a ride. We’re new owners of a Trek T1000 with 11-34 9Sp cassette. It’s our first tandem. We are both strong riders and we can’t stand the large gaps in this cassette.
Our single bikes are Trek Madones with 10-sp cassettes. I’ve been thinking of trying a 11-28 cassette. We really don’t need the lower couple of gears on most rides. Our crankset is 52/42/30 so the 30 gives us low gearing anyway. If the 11-28 works we’ll get a second set of wheels and we can switch between the two sets if we need the lower gears, like on our trips to Vermont! Anyone else do this?

We couldn't stand it (11-34) either so we use it only for loaded touring; otherwise, we use a 12-25t.

If you need that lower gearing, as has been said, your only option is to switch to 12-34 (no 13-34 available?).



Those riding a 52-42-30 (or the like) [I]old[I] standard triple setup really should try 52-38-30 : spend more time on the big and middle chainring, use the 30t chainring only as backup. This is especially true for those used to riding double chainrings.
The down side is that the 38 middle chainring requires the use of the newer front derailleurs.

Carbonfiberboy : if you wear a cassette, it can only be because you don't replace your chain when it's time! Chain replacement is part of regular bike maintenance. Do so and your bike will shift and ride better (metal wear is friction).
Sorry, I can't stop miself from preaching when it comes to late chain changes and chainring/cassette wear that shouldn't be.

Hmmm - 4 X 9 = 36 potential gear combinations.

With that big of a split in chainring sizes it seems like there should be a way to make a closer ratio cassette work for you.

Harris Cyclery does sell a made-up 13-34. I think what I'll try is making up a 13-34 from a combination of my 13-30 and 11-34, but it may be that too many of the cogs in the 11-34 are pinned. If we were a few years younger we would never need the 34, but such is the nature of life. We've only been riding the tandem for 1 year so I'm holding out hope that we'll get strong enough to ditch the 34.

We do spin out a 60-13 at about 32 mph, but it's unusual for us to feel compelled to pedal above this speed, maybe on a long 3% downhill. Much above that grade our just-right 350 lb. team weight does all the heavy lifting.

I did use my 36t chainring more on today's ride in the rollers. This chainring puts me in the tighter rear spacing. The daVinci has a longer chainline than a standard tandem so the cross chaining in this configuration is not so objectionable.

Agree, 12-25 is fine for us, too. Around here we can climb anything (standing maybe) with a 32->25. For Europe, we'll go back to the cassette with the 32T cog but we'll replace the 11T with the 12 from the "home-ice" cassette. Close spacing trumps a high high any day.

(Rdtompki, you're kickin' serious butt cruising at 19 mph, is all I can say.)

19 mph is flat, no wind and not at the end of no stinkin' 60 mile ride. Best we could do today with a tailwind after 65 miles was about 20 mph so that puts the 19 in perspective. Once the prospect of hills is behind us, the prospect of food in front of us, my stoker and I shift into senior-citizen overdrive:)

12 x 25 or 11 x 28 is nice. We had a 13x34 but there was a jump from 17 to a 21 that ALWAYS happened at the wrong time. We're Florida folks so we opted for the 11x28 for more top end, close ratio in the higher gears and the fact that we don't have "real" climbs within 300 miles of home. In fact we did a century ride last year and stayed in the the big ring all day using all the gears in the back due to a buggered front derailleur.

I just ordered a 12-27T because like said before, the gaps are way too big to be useful around here. We will see how it will do soon enough.

Been using an 11/34 cassette for years. Seldom get to use the 34 but it can be nice, especially here in Arizona and at our age (77 and 75).
Used to get away easily with a 28T rear cog when younger . . .
Growin' old is not for sissies!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

I went ahead and ordered a single 34t cog from Harris Cyclery. This will let me convert my 13-30 to a 13-34 by removing the 14t and adding the 34t. An unpinned 34t is not ideal, but the freehub body is steel; this is a pretty inexpensive experiment. Thanks for the helpful responses from all.

We do spin out a 60-13 at about 32 mph, but it's unusual for us to feel compelled to pedal above this speed, maybe on a long 3% downhill. Much above that grade our just-right 350 lb. team weight does all the heavy lifting.




I realize everyone is different,and you have to keep your stoker happy, but you might work on seeing if you can raise what is a comfortable cadence for your team.

60x13 is 33.4 mph at 90 rpm.

MEL,
Agree completely on raising my stoker's cadence. My stoker uses a Thudbuster and as mentioned in your response to the suspension seat post question, I suspect the Thudbuster limits my stoker's cadence. Nonetheless, her cadence has risen from mid-80's to almost the mid-90's over the last year and I'm only good to about 100. Also, I think our daVinci's drivetrain is a bit of a disadvantage at the higher cadences; still wouldn't trade though for our application.

Also, I think our daVinci's drivetrain is a bit of a disadvantage at the higher cadences; still wouldn't trade though for our application.

I can see that. If the captain pedals a faster cadence than the stoker, is the stoker essentially freewheeling?

I went from an 11-34 to a 12-34 and it did tighten things up a bit. I am resigned, however to, shifting the front as necessary. I don't want to give up the lower gearing, so I figure that there has to be some sort of give-back! I don't mind the double shift, especially on a long stretch. I got used to it, because on my single, I went to compact 9 speed gearing. There comes a point with that gearing, where one must transition from the middle to the large chainring. At that point I am ready to shift up 3 cogs in back when I go to the big ring.
On the tandem, the 34 and the granny ring lets us climb anything (my stoker hates hills), but talk about gaps! When I drop to the small chainring, I will be spinning like mad, so I have to shift down 2 or 3 cogs to get it under control!

I have an 11-28 and 11-34, swapping them out depending on the ride conditions. The 11-28 gear choices are better, but not just because of the overall range, but because Shimano makes the spacing between the higher gears closer while IRD evenly spaces the jumps all along the cassette. The Shimano cassettes give you more choices where you really need more choices. It's a shame they don't make an 11-34 yet. For the first double century we did for this year, I went with the 11-28 and we were fine. It wasn't too hilly and past rides we were able to stay out of the small ring with the 11-34. I considered going with this for Davis, however changed my mind and I'm glad I did. What I am thinking will be a good rule to go by is if we can do a ride without using the small ring with the 11-34, then we can use the 11-28, but use the small ring.

I've got a number of cassettes to choose from and my preference would be our 13-30 which is certainly good for anything up to 10%, but riding a 100K or Century for the first time I'd rather err on the side of caution. I'm looking forward to trying the 13-34 (13-15-17-19-21-24-27-30-34) which provides pretty decent spacing in the part of the cassette I use the most. That's just us, however. Different strokes for different folks as can be seen from the diversity of response.

My wife and I really need our 24-34 when the pitch gets over 10%, but I'm almost at the point where I'd rather walk these stretches than put up with the large gaps in the overall cassette.

Not that this is a feasible solution for you, but as an example of the advantages of having more cogs/closely spaced, I really like my Campy 11-speed (12-27) on a tandem. Having the close spacing with 11 speeds allows smooth fine gradation in shifting, allowing us to keep an optimum cadence and effort while maintaining momentum on uphills, downhills, wind changes, etc. It is most helpful when riding in a group with more rapidly accelerating/decelerating half-bikes. We are better able to avoid getting dropped by strong riders, and we are more appreciated for our smoothness by the wheel-suckers behind us.

Our 12-27 11-speed does work with a triple even though there is no medium cage RD available. Campy makes a 12-29 cassette, I cannot vouch that this would work with a triple. A 12-29 11-speed would be nice on a tandem, as it would combine a wide spread in gears, but with fewer gaps.

Will the 11-speed hold up to the greater demands of a tandem? I don't know, we are the guinea pigs.

Not that this is a feasible solution for you, but as an example of the advantages of having more cogs/closely spaced, I really like my Campy 11-speed (12-27) on a tandem. Having the close spacing with 11 speeds allows smooth fine gradation in shifting, allowing us to keep an optimum cadence and effort while maintaining momentum on uphills, downhills, wind changes, etc. It is most helpful when riding in a group with more rapidly accelerating/decelerating half-bikes. We are better able to avoid getting dropped by strong riders, and we are more appreciated for our smoothness by the wheel-suckers behind us.

Our 12-27 11-speed does work with a triple even though there is no medium cage RD available. Campy makes a 12-29 cassette, I cannot vouch that this would work with a triple. A 12-29 11-speed would be nice on a tandem, as it would combine a wide spread in gears, but with fewer gaps.

Will the 11-speed hold up to the greater demands of a tandem? I don't know, we are the guinea pigs.

Are there any tandem specific hubs that work with an 11-speed cassette? White Industries says their Campy tandem hubs are not compatible.

Try the Shimano 12-36 9 speed cassette; We just tried one an I surprised how much closer the cogs felt than the stock 11-34 that we normally use.

Are there any tandem specific hubs that work with an 11-speed cassette? White Industries says their Campy tandem hubs are not compatible.

My frame is 135 mm OLD, and thus uses mountain rather than 145 mm tandem hubs, these the DT Swiss 240s disc brake (http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Hubs/240s/240s-disc-brake.aspx).

http://www.bikebling.com/v/vspfiles/photos/DTSwiss-240s-IS-9mm-Front-Hub-2T.jpghttp://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4423189132_0e47a02087_m.jpg

Thus the DT 540 tandem (http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/Hubs/540-tandem.aspx) might be the first place to look, as DT appears inclined to offer Campy 11 spd on its hubs. It might be difficult to find an answer, because there probably haven't been too many to try.

http://www.madison.co.uk/lib/photos/hbdt5401.jpg

Edit:

I spoke to Paul (in Marketing) at DT Swiss (http://maps.google.com/maps/place?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=DT+Swiss+Inc.++2493+Industrial+Blvd.++Grand+Junction++Colorado+81505,+USA&fb=1&gl=us&hq=DT+Swiss+Inc.+2493+Industrial+Blvd.&hnear=Grand+Junction+Colorado+81505,+USA&cid=11824349240324452915). He confirmed that a 540 tandem will take a Campy cassette using a
conversion kit (http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Accessories/Hub-Conversion-Kits/Rotor-Conversion-Kits-Campagnolo-340-road.aspx), and this will work with both 10 and 11 speeds.

Has anyone thought about a running half step and granny? Can you put a big chainring in the middle? We currently have, 32, 44, 55 and 11-32 on the back. The 12-14 and 14-16 gaps completely kill us, so we wondered about running 32, 50, 54 in the front and half step the gears. Providing you can put a big chainring in the middle, I think its the perfect solution to everyones problem

Current
http://imgur.com/IJbBy.png

Potential
http://imgur.com/ZvnVs.png

Notice how there are small gaps from around 26km/h to 40km/h, which is exactly where you ride the most. I just realised thats with 51, and 55, rather than the less rare 50 54, but it would have the same effect

Has anyone thought about a running half step and granny? Can you put a big chainring in the middle? We currently have, 32, 44, 55 and 11-32 on the back. The 12-14 and 14-16 gaps completely kill us, so we wondered about running 32, 50, 54 in the front and half step the gears. Providing you can put a big chainring in the middle, I think its the perfect solution to everyones problem



Excellent suggestion.

You may find that the teeth of a larger middle ring will rub on the inner cage plate of the front derailleur when the derailleur is set for the outer ring. Compared to the "classic" triple front changers used for half-step-plus-granny systems in the 1970s, modern front triples have a more complex three-dimensional shape, with much deeper inner cage plates to assist shifting from smaller rings to larger. (With indexing, you can't give it that little overshift-then-immediate-correction manoeuvre we learned how to use for encouraging balky chains to "SHIFT ALREADY!") Modern derailleurs like there to be a large tooth difference between rings, which is just what you don't want for a half-step.

Our experience: we replaced a worn 42T middle with a 44T from the parts box (different manufacturer, no ramps, so I wasn't expecting perfect shifting.) But the teeth of the 44T rubbed on the inner cage plate when it was set for the outer ring no matter how I tried to trim the derailleur. A 50T would have prevented the derailleur from moving out enough even to lift the chain: the cage would have run right into the teeth as it moved laterally.

To make a classic half-step work, you need an old-fashioned front derailleur whose cage plates are pretty much flat, about the same size, and long enough to give sufficient "depth" that the chain doesn't rub on the rear spacer between the cage plates when it's on the granny ring. (32-55 is a pretty big range. For touring on a single bike, I usually used 32-48or50.) Shifting might not be as idiot-proof as with modern triples -- you might find a bar-end or down-tube shifter works better than the pre-set stops of an Ergo or SIS lever. (You can still use a brifter for the rear, of course.) But those of us who toured extensively on triples know that these pre-index systems worked reliably under heavy loads in dirty weather for weeks on end.

Worth a try.

As well as the front derailleur issues involved with setting up a half-step plus granny triple, you'll also have a problem finding a 50 tooth middle ring. TA Specialites makes middle rings (130 BCD) that go up to 46 teeth, but I don't know of any manufacturers who make something bigger than that. Using an outer ring in the middle position normally doesn't work too well because the recesses for the chainring bolts will be on the wrong side, so the bolts will stick out and rub the chain when it is in the granny ring. The other option would be to use a single-speed chainring. Those don't have any shifting ramps but because some of them are so thick and stiff, they can actually shift OK, especially if using a bar-end or down-tube shifter, I used one to achieve a 28-46 super compact gearing setup on my single bike for a while until I got the TA Specialites 46 tooth middle instead. That was an 18-tooth shift just like your 32-50 would be, so maybe it could work.

To solve the front derailleur issue, you might try using one designed for a double crankset because that will have a much shallower inner plate. However, shifting from the middle to granny is still not going to be easy, especially if you are trying to get the chain off of a single-speed chainring, which doesn't have any shifting gates - maybe you could file down a couple of pairs of teeth to fabricate your own shifting gates.

A far simpler solution would be to drop the size of your inner ring and then your cassette won't need to have as much range, and so you'll get tighter spacing between the cogs. You could go with 28-42-55 chainrings plus an 11-28 (although I don't think the 11 would be necessary, and so I'd go for 12-28 - IRD and BBB make 10-speed versions with that combo). The 13-tooth difference between middle and outer is exactly what Ultegra triple derailleurs are designed for, so that setup should shift easily.